has been 100 to 200 protesters participating in the demonstrations in ferguson, marching the first year anniversary of the shooting death of michael brown. i'm randall pinkston, thank you for joining us. for more head to aljazeera.com. the battle lines in the gun control debate have been drown and they are well defined. they are creating an enforced system that is riddled with holes. recent developments have given some hope of keeping guns away from people everyone agrees should never get their hands on a gun. arm armed.

"inside story". welcome to "inside story". i'm del walters in for luis suarez ray suarez. president obama showed frustration at getting illegal guns out of the hands of the dangerous and off the streets. >> you mentioned illegal guns, that's an area where - you ask me what is the one area i feel i have been most frustrated and most stymied, it's the fact that the united states of america is the one advance nation on earth in which we do not have sufficient consents and safety laws. >> if nothing else, the amount of gun violence in places where it's toughest to get it legally is a reminder that there's a patchwork of laws verifying ownership. that means what is illegal in

one state is illegal in the next. robert ray has that part of the story. >> hello. >> reporter: this is little's bait and tackle shop in the small town of georgia. one of nearly 4,000 licensed dealers in the state. little is the owner. little is the source of the gun used to kill new york city police officer in may. it was stolen from the porn shop. this video took the video of the action. the guns make their way up an iron pipeline, an illegal route up 95, from southern states to new york. in spite of attempts by lawmakers and police to shut it down, georgia is ground zero.

>> two new york city officers ambushed in disease were killed by georgia gun. purchasing a firearm in the state of georgia is simple. all you need is a georgia state i.d. or driver's licence. it goes through a background check taking 20 or 30 minutes and you can obtain a gun online. georgia leads the country as firearms used in crimes in other states. in 2013, 3,000 guns purchased in georgia were confiscated outside the state, with florida running behind. according to georgia, and the bureau of tobacco and firearms. we reached out. they did not respond to our request for interview. >> i was shocked. >> upset that it was a local gun that killed officer brian moore in new york: law enforcement

needs more funding. georgia's state representative rick jasper is the author of the safe carry protection law. it passes in april 2014. it allows georgia residents to purchase a firearm, obtain a permit and carry the weapon in all public places across the state. >> there are some people that compare the gun trade up north to drug trafficking. would you say it's on that level? >> i don't know that i'd say that. i feel fortunate to say i have never been in new york city. i haven't really investigated or tried to look at what goes on in the nearby corridor. both of my sponsors have been around georgia, and how we can strengthen our law, making it fair and effective. >> georgia law does not require reporting of stolen guns, making

it easy to people to buy guns easily, sell them to criminals, and later the guns will be stolen, making it more difficult to clog and shut down on the federal stage as president obama put it, his efforts passing gun control, stymied by gun crime. there's a solicitor of hope. common ground between the two side. untreated or diagnosed, it's the common thread that combines mass shootings, john, the republican senator may have cracked the code on passing a law, making it harder for the mentally ill to get guns. he argues that with more data federal background will be more effective, and better clean who should and shouldn't by a gun.

in return, states get more money. they'll get more enforcement grants. the states get those moneys helping those with mental illnesses. the plans are not without their critics, it has the bagging of the n.r.a. as said in that interview with the bbc, the controlled legislation is not something he intends to stop working on. does it deserve a second look. here to start it out is d.c.'s delegate to congress. >> the president is saying that gun control is an area he's been stymied in. is it your opinion that the bill deserves a second look? >> i do appreciate what the senator has done. i really do need to tell you that there's nothing about background chicks.

what sh does is uncontroversial. >> you can still by a gun. >> the only way to not buy a gun is if you've been adjudicated mentally ill. >> you think it's a red herring. that he's throwing it up to apiece groups that want to see something done after the mass shootings, but really it won't do anything? >> i think event the n.r.a., first time they supported any bill. even the n.r.a. is moved by the charleston nine, the south carolina citizens who were mowed down, but the heart of the democratic bill, and isn't that interesting, it's a conservative - yet again. it's a conservative democrat or republican background checks. what your piece shows was that

you can go to gun show or go online and buy a gun. the soint's bill does not touch that. why do you thinks the n.r.a. was moved by what happened there, and not in charleston, combine and it goes on. . >> i think is it's a cumulative effect. how can you not be moved by the way the relatives of the south carolina nine responded. >> how they came together? >> approach. for those that don't look closely direction. the senator is trying to do something about a big problem. and the states dot not always give up-to-date information.

what does he do. no new money to do that. it's hard to see anything that this would do, except race problems. if a judge tells you to go and you haven't been adjudicated mentally ill, you may say just a moment, that presents constitutional problems. >> are you convinced that the mentally ill will be able to keep getting gun gs, because of the loophole some are pointing to. a judge says, let's say you expect, that you must go to a psychiatrist. you can buy a gun during this time. >> is this issue of mental health the issue that needs to

be addressed. washington d.c. is home to st. elizabeth hospital. it was home of john hinkley, a man who tried to assassinate president ronald reagan. in the regan buildings many spilled out on to the streets, they were pushed out on the streets. there didn't seem a cause and effect between the mentally ill on the streets or the homicides in washington d.c. is it a mental health issue in your opinion? >> if you look at the people involved, and the recent mass shootings, most of them wouldn't have been caught because they weren't judged to be mentally ill. the way the guns get up from georgia is you can buy a gun from the dealer, for from a

carat a gun show, and no one has to do a background check. that is where the problem is. mental adjudication is a problem. we have to look now at the fact that most of these people will not have been adjudged ill, and, yes, they've been incentivized the state to make sure those that are in judgment. at least we get that information. >> can i ask you a question - are you convinced the fourth presidential term is over, that we'll see gun control legislation? >> it's the most difficult of all the bills, even health care, because even though most n.r.a. members afford background checks, that hasn't moved n.r.a., it moves them insofar as it's discussed today. >> thank you for being with us. >> when we come back, we'll look at the broader issue of gun control. why nothing has been done on the federal level and we'll talk about what, if anything, pam ale

can get done -- president obama can get done in that remaining time in office, and we'll talk about the need to keep them away from those posing a threat to themselves and others. armed and mentally ill, it is "inside story".

welcome back to "inside story". i'm del walters in for ray suarez, our topic, armed and mentally ill, and how our lawmakers will keep guns away from those with serious issues. as noted, the second highest ranking republican, curbing gun

ownership. it will increase the information that the federal government has. whether the approach has merit or a chance of becoming law is open to debate. joining me now is john lock. he is the author of the more guns, less crime. understanding crime and controlling laws. and from san francisco, robin thomas is the quif director of search and prevent gun violence. the title of your book seems to say it all. more guns, less crime. do you believe the solution is more guns, and what if they wind up in the hands of the mentally ill. >> we want to keep people that are dangerous from getting guns. the problem overall, police are extremely important, are not going to be there all the time to protect people. they arrive after the crimes occur. what can they do. telling people to behave

passively. it's not good advice. >> looking back on that. >> we have the congresswoman on... >> for 30 years, the guns don't kill people, but a lot are dying. if that's the case... you say more people should have guns. >> look, guns make it easier to kill people, they make it easier to protect people and prevent bad things happening. the question is what is the net effect. i give you a simple example. every place in the world has seen increase in murder rates, every place,s it's just not washington d.c. and chicago in the united states. even if island nations ban guns, you think out of randomness, one time when guns were banned, one time when it doesn't happen, what is the solution in your opinion. and will senator address this.

>> you talk about mass public shootings. one thing you have to acknowledge is we are two exceptions, since 1950. every single one of the mass shootings have taken place where general americans were not allowed to have guns. all the cases, whether it be charleston or colorado or the lafayette movie theatre are cases where guns were banned. where they were gun free zones. the killers seek out places where victims can't defend themselves. >> again, you are defining the problem. what is the solution, and does it move us closer to a solution, as to reinstating the problem. >> well, the solution i was getting to is gun free zones are a big problem. look, i have to say a couple of

things on what you said in the previous segment. people are moved. we are horrified. everyone is by the attacks. something needs a gun. nobody you are not talking abouters others are not talking about getting rid of the gun free zones. small areas in different states - those are the tiny areas that the killers take out time after time after time. now, with regard to the court, people have to realise that the background situation is a complete mess. when the president says 2.3 million prohibited people have been prevented from buying guns, that - the terminology is there has been 2.3 million denials, and virtually all, over 99% are false positives.

let me give you an example. late senator ted kennedy, when he was denied for flying five times, you count that assist five times stopping a terrorist falling. no. we had a name similar to one they were stopping. >> we'd be safe in saying the gun free zones should be done away with. president of the crime prevention research center, thank you for your time. >> i want to turn to robin thomas, executive director of the law center, as i mentioned to mr lob, the n.r.a. says guns don't kill people, as i pointed out a lot of people are dying so as not the guns, it's doing to the damage. are you convinced that it will address part of the problem. >> so just to speak to the bill at the moment. it has two different components

to it. one part of the bill provides funding, grant money for programs that we think are not controversial or gun related, and are important aspects to consider, finding funding for treatment centers, crisis training, law enforcement. pilot programs, and the first two sections of the bill deal with funding for mental health programs, it's may area of expertise, and looking at it, it appears there's good funding opportunities. the section of the bill dealing with dunst and mental health, that section as mentioned earlier is a bit of a red herring. what happens in that sections of the bill is under federal law, take for example the situation in which someone is committed to a meant am institution because they present an imminent threat to themselves or others? >> under that bill, in this

counter situation, if you are involuntarily committed, when you come out of the mental institution, you cannot go and pass background checks and obtain a gun. you can go through a process of review to find out if they are at risk to themselves or others. if not they can buy a gun. the new legislation changes that. >> are you convinced, to put it mildly, that the bill and in the right direction. >> no. >> you think it is not. >> i think that the first sections which deal with funding for mental health may be helpful. the sections that deal with guns and access to guns by those under the current system have adjudicated, or been involuntary committed to mental institutions. under the bill the second you get out, as soon as you are not under the provision of a mental institution, your gun rights are automatically and immediately

reinstated. in the current system where you are in the system of someone prohibited from otaining firearms, as soon as you come out of the mental institutions you can buy a gun with no process review. >> robin thomas, executive director of a law center to prevent gun violence. thank you for being with us. >> we'll look at why some with mental illnesses are attracted to getting a wellon in -- weapon in the first place. armed and mentally ill - it is "inside story".

>> i've been asked to keep my voice down cause we are so close

welcome back to "inside story". i'm del walters, in for ray suarez, tonight we are discussing armed mentally ill. we will not hear a lot of voices against the idea of keeping guns from those that suffer mental illness. what about those getting help for their illness, showing no sign of violence, or veterans treated for post-traumatic stress disorder. with me now is the chairman of psychiatry, and the author of shrinks, the untold story of psych itry. first of all, do you believe the ongoing rash of gun violence is

a mental health issue. >> in part it is, but not entirely. if you tack about violent crime in the united states, about 4% of the violent crimes are committed by people who commit mental illnesses. if you talk about the massacres, the proportion of those, and untreated mental illness goes up to 20%. so if people don't get treatment. they are prone to do the kind of unfathomable act of violence to a greater degree, and this is what attracts the public and media's attention. >> what about p.t.s.d., soldiers diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, should they be able to get a gun. >> it depends what your criterion is. first of all, i think the issue trying to be addressed by the senator's bill, and the issue of gun control is really very

limited. it's trying to - it's trying to chase the horses after they left the barn, instead of closing the door. >> you think it will not work. >> it will be a step in the right direction. all it will do is deny guns to a certain proportion of people they believe will be at rick. the real thing that needs to be done is to provide better mental health care to people before it gets to that point. >> but they say they'll give more money to the states, and they'll be able to provide the mental health. >> and that is good. >> i am not against the bill. i think the bill does mostly good things, just not enough. let me tell you, a glaring inconsistency in the bill. if the bill is to deny

background checks to individuals, any criminologist will tell you that the biggest risk factor for perpetrating felons is substance abuse. anyone with a history of excessive drinking or taking drugs may be part of this check and tighter restrictions and access to guns. >> what about people that have been on anti-depressants. i see the television commercials all the time where is says warning, this drug may lead to suicidal thoughts. if i had suicidal thoughts, would it affect me, am i one of those people that may not buy a gun. >> possibly it depends on the gingts. right now the threshold for someone that denies actions, treated against their will, even if they don't want treatment. clearly they are mentally disturbed, usually with a psychotic disorder, and they

prevent a danger to themselves or others. now, this bar is too high to deter or interdict all the people suffering mental illness that might be at risk for producing it. >> the number of people that go ahead and do these things is a fraction of all the people that might be considered at risk the the question is trying to stop a needle in the haystack. the better approach is to provide better mental health care. let me sum it up for you. it's not bad, it's a good attempt. it's gun control and providing limited additional support for mental health services, largely for people that are recalcitrant and lacking a motivation for treatment. the better bills, there's two now in the house and senate.

sponsored by congress. and congresswoman bernice johnson. on the senate side it's a bill by senator chris murphy, and bill cassidy. this is way beyond. >> i was going to say we are making the argument that we see the debate begin and we'll see movement not on for some time. >> let's hope there is movement. >> chairman of psychiatry. i want to thank you for understanding in this evening. that is it. tomorrow we'll talk about pope francis's recent comments about the catholic church. from ray suarez, i'm del walters.

goodnight. goodnight. he's bleeding, please get him some help. >> a state of emergency in the u.s. after an 18-year-old black man is shot by police in ferguson. welcome to al jazeera. coming up in the next half hour, i.s.i.l. says it carried out two suicide car bombings this killed nearly 60 people in iraq. protests in japan as it returns to nuclear energy after