tonight they control huge amounts of land in iraq and syria. brutalizing millions and their membership is growing. america's allies in the middle east say washington has to do more to destroy isil. but why is aisles america's problem? why hasn't the muslim world defeated isil? later in the our panel, three years ago the g.p. might have lost the election because of a so-called war on women. with recent comments have they written off half the lex tour at

again. president obama says the or tentative to a nuclear deal with iran is war. is washington deceiving the pop lake. i am imran garda and thi this is this is "third rail." rice up and stop isis. >> the threat of the islamic state requires all of the strength, unity and confidence that only american leadership can provide. >> arab countries need to stand united in saying death to isis. >> egypt, saudi arabia, jordan, this is their war. they should be fighting it, not us. >> these are regional batters, regional actors, regional bad guys. >> when will the moderates wake up? or will they ever wake up? >> there is no way in hell you can destroy isil without a substantial american component. >> it starts off as local but they are building an interim nation network. >> we need i want knackal hem. we have to remember iraq became

in such a way because of the occupation. >> we are where we are because we armed the syrian rebels. we have been fight ago long side al-qaeda. >> we created it, it's ours and now we are trying to deal with the an consequences. >> tonight we have a professor of international relations at the london school of economics and political science he's the author of ice as a short history. and a former strategic communications adviser with the syrian coalition. thanks for joining us, gentlemen. why hasn't the muslim world defeated isil? >> we have to look at what exactly is broadly defined. let's look at what certain muslim country have his done. no doubt we have to also look at the question as who does isil target? now, according to the united nations data from in a report from last year, the majority of those killed by isis are muslims, bombs in mosques, sunni muslims, shia muslims are being

targeted by isil. >> totally. so why haven't they dunmore if they are the tagger nets. >> the reality is muslims are doing more than they realize. islamic institutions in the region you can in egypt, we have grand sunni muslim in saudi arabia fighting against isis, this is a recent but important turn of events -- [speaking at the same time] >> against people like bin laden in the past which only served as a greater recruitment tool to these fighters because they are saying you see these guys are sell outs they are with the west, dictators, we are the correct interpretation of islam. >> if does help. if you want to stem the fighters from central asia and the arab world in to syria and iraq you need the support of the local muslim leaders. you look at the amount of security actions taken by plus tim countries against homegrown isis recruit think cells, so the

reality, is is that if you want to stop the foreign fighters you have to look at the lodge us ticks, the financial networks, it's not just the ideology, and finally in the past five, six months, we are seeing countries in the middle east waking up to this dire threat. >> do you know the percentage of air strikes that have been committed against isil by the united states? do you know the percentage of those air strikes done by the united states? >> overwhelmingly by the united states air force. >> 116 air strikes by saudi arabia. the uae, bahrain, jordan and canada. that's in syria. >> that's. [speaking at the same time] >> out of 2,300. the vast majority. 79% by the united states. you have record arm sales to the middle east, to these gulf countries which are rich countries, among the richest in the world. they have american weapons and european weapons. they have gotten limited money. they claim they want to fight isil. so why don't they? why are they still asking the american to his do their work for them? >> certainly we are not seeing an arab expeditionary force.

a muslim force going in to syria. >> okay. >> to fight isis but they are going after the finance ears and the logistical support and they are supporting the local sunni muslims in syria in the lead fighting isis, you need ray roll solution. >> i want to talk about that in a moment. but first, are you convinced that the muslim world or these countries particularly in the region are doing enough? >> i am not only -- of course i am not convinced. my colleague here misses the big big picture. ice wois in the have done as well as it has in the last knew years without the gio extra steam i can struggle taking place, it's part and parcel of the saudi led, saudi being the sunni dominated state, this is the social. [ inaudible ] that has allowed

isis to grow as big as it has, isis is a result, a product of the spreading fires of the civil wars taking place in syria. taking place in iraq. the sunni-shia divide that is basically opposing the veins of the muslim politics. not only middle eastern states have not done enough. in fact they have provided the sus that nancsustenance and nou. >> how? >> 202012 and 2014, those isis, -- there was no isis. al-nusra front. because money flood ed in to syria. the question was not to support the militant jihadist the question was to bring the temperature on assad's head. [speaking at the same time] >> most of the money, most of the money, basically went to militants, like al-nusra. .1. ..1, paints two, most of the fighters come to syria from

turkey. the question is not why turkey has joined the fight now. why has it taken turkey more than a year to i now submit to you that turkish strategic priority is no to take on isis because of the kurds. >> you are the guy, you were walling for, quote, ammo, am oh, ammo to go to the free syrian arm. >> i absolutely. >> a lot that ammo went to groups like al-nusra front, went to the islam i go state. isil. the weapons and money went to these. [speaking at the same time] >> to the team lobbing of heads. >> let's look at actual facts in 2005 where were the fighters come in from damascus to syria and iraq well before the 2011 syrian revolution. the counter intuitively in the middle east today. secular autocratic, supposedly secular on the contract i can governments are not the

inoculation against the ideology of groups luol kid and iraq luo. the data is very clear here, -- what eventually became isis was able to grow in the deserts of eastern syria from thousand five to 2010 underneath the watch of the supposed secular syrian military intelligent. [speaking at the same time] >> that's this thousand they grew. [speaking at the same time] >> isis, before isis there was al qaeda in iraq. al qaeda and iraq. and i have written several books on the topic. al qaeda and iraq was defeated in 2010, 2011. when the americans letter iraq in 2011, al qaeda and iraq, inning and his successors were bankrupt. was besieged. was bleeding. it did not number more than 200, 300 fighters. the question for us here, why the so-called --

>> they survived because the syrians -- the syrian regime allowed them to establish a redone apt network in syria. >> why isis was grown from 200 fighters in to basically 35,000 fighters, to come back, the sunni-shia divide. this is the social nourishment. these are not my words, consensus in the field. what does mean the sunni-shia divide. the geostrategic struggle. it means sunni dominated saudi arabia. and shia dominated iran. even though it's strategic, it's power oriented, but it's perceived as sectarian. it has allowed isis to, what? to imbed itself. upsetter itself with the local sunni community. >> is their popular support for isil -- [speaking at the same time] >> absolutely not. >> people are forget who question feeted al kicompeted te sunnis. >> no one can tell you the support within the sunni

community to ice. i have worked for years, the numbers go and these are basically -- not just rhetoric here, the numbers goes most sunnis, most sunnis implicitly, implicitly the local commune is poor sunni communities view isis as the enemy of their enemy. that is the minority-based government. truly, correctly. -- >> against shia immaterial pearl yearism. >> in a way isis being the manipulate i have it has inserted itself -- >> syria is the number one victim. [speaking at the same time] >> it has exploited, m manipulad the grievances, the pain, the suffering. sunnis by saying we are your vanguard. we are your soul supporter and defender against the minority-led regimes. even though most sunnis, i would say, most sunnis don't subscribed to isis ideology, but the reason why isis has done as

well as it has, it has sold its theinarrative. it's identity-based narrative. it's sectarian based isis. >> so an american watching this would think my god why on earth would i want to get involved in a seek tear vinnie civil war in the middle east. we left iraq, this is none of our business anymore. these guys need to sort out their own business, it sounds overwhelmingly sectarian. none of our business, not our fight. >> that's a very good question. sectarianism is absolutely a factor that helps groups like isis and al qaeda in iraq and the islamic state grow. but it's not the only factor. okay, this is not just an issue of saudi arabia vying for regional democracy with iran. saudi arabia fought an insurgency against isil -- [speaking at the same time] >> let me finish. >> who defeated the prototype for isis in iraq, the islamic state of iraq? it was the sunni tribes tribes .

>> absolutely. >> the sunni nationalist fighters, who defeated isis -- >> you answered your own question. >> so the americans don't need to get involved. >> they need for support those on the frontline to his defeat isis. the way you prevent the u.s. from being sucked in in to the region is by empowering those that want to. [speaking at the same time] talk. >> give me some group names. >> sunni national assists. >> who? >> sunni rebel alliance in northern -- in northern syria. the conquest army. you have another alliance in aleppo. the aleppo countryside called the levant front. [speaking at the same time] >> al-nusra as -- >> they are not part of the -- [speaking at the same time] >> not true. >> they want here is i can't law, al-nusra themselves have killed villagers, executed people in aleppo. they have just been killing from among those 60 u.s. trained fighters. that's al-nusra front. >> i have to correct you.

al-nusra is not part of the conquest army. [speaking at the same time] >> they were just pushed out by the sunni rebels out of a hleb owe. >> have they announced their departure. [speaking at the same time]. >> fair enough. well get to you. >> forget -- >> it's a wide spectrum. [speaking at the same time] >> let's forget al-nusra. they recently put out a message of support and condolence when the taliban leader died syria. >> that's right. >> they want sear. [speaking at the same time] >> these are the guides -- >> but they are not -- >> you can. [speaking at the same time] >> they are not. only ones, they are absolutely problematic in statement like that are absolutely problematic. but there are absolutely options in syria -- >> may i -- >> terms of sunni arabs that the west can support to defeat isis. >> some qualifications. no one said that isis or al-nusra are a product of just the sunni iranian factor. you have bloody dictatorship in

iraq and syria. if it wasn't for the divisive policies of al-maliki. bashar al-assad. isis would not have been augmented and consolidated think .1. .2, let's keep in mind the u.s.-led invasion of iraq in 2003, allowed al qaeda to exists in the first place, what does this tell you, this is not a question of iraq, this is not an american fight. america should not take ownership of this particular fight. only arab and middle eastern civil saturdays can defeat this particular fled. if american inning seeped it would divert the attention, that's what isis wants, they were to curtail the muslims -- to tell them we are the defenders against the americans. [speaking at the same time] >> please help us, give us weapons what do you tell them?

>> that's exactly the same call in 2003, come to iraq, intervene in iraq. [speaking at the same time] >> it's apples and oranges, no one is calling for an invasion. >> the united states can do a great deal by assisting arab and middle eastern civil societies, by assisting. >> that i agree with. >> by rebuilding the broken civil societies. america's power, if america, and america can do a great deal, i have written a boom on barack obama and the middle east two years ago, the united states should use its leadership and resource to his bridge the divide to also get rid of the bloody dictators who are basically poisoning the veins of society. >> on that i want poff agreement i want to take a break but welcome back nay moment. coming up one the architects of the surge in iraq joins us. the united states needs to help where it can. >> you break it, you own it, right. you broke it, so be a part of the solution. >> first do no harm. and as we have learned,. >> for late for that. >> well, more harm can always be done. >> and later on. >> the premise that all women

somehow share the same view on abortion is wrong. >> you have very tone deaf comments that just play to to creating a rhetorical volcano that keeps the whole machine moving. fighting fire with felons, what object correspondent learned from prisoners on the frontline of california forest fires. >> did "third rail" did not feel like an episode of oz, it did not feel like i was going to get shank ed in two minutes, this was people who were reflex they have. people who were saying what they want to do. once they were out. so whatever they are doing is clearly working. a difference. >> we want to fight for our education. >> choosing a path. >> if i'm not sharing the gospel, then i feel empty inside because that's the gift that god has given me. >> deciding their own future. >> i'm pretty burnt out... if i said that i'm perfectly fine, i would be lying. >> oscar winner alex gibney's "edge of eighteen". the powerful conclusion.

62% of americans support sending ground troops to fight isis. >> we have to put boots on the ground, my friend. >> something should be done. but by us? >> americans have spent enough blood and treasure in iraq. >> we have to get past this point that every time we see something on our computer screens we don't like we bomb. it's not our problem. >> it is our fight. this is not a sunni veries sunni problem. this is isil versus mankind. welcome back. joining us now is douglas, former u.s. army colonel and iraq director for the national

could are at this council, served in iraq and afghanistan was and involved in the iraqi surge in 2007. thanks phoning us,. >> you are welyou for joining u. >> one of the reasons given for the need for u.s. in iraq is responsibility. doll inning powell said it, you broke it, so be a part of the solution in iraq and syria. it's a mess. the united states is the super power. help. >> it is a mess. and the united states needs to help where it can. but it needs to help with the hippocratic oath. first do no arm. >> as we have learned -- >> too late for that. >> but more harm can always be done. as we have learned the hard way in syria, in iraq, in libya, all over the world, things can always get worse. and for the united states to intervene with the heavy hand with have all kind of political consequences the outcome of which we can't foresee. we didn't think al qaeda of iraq was going to be an outcome of our 23 invasion.

we did for the foresee that. we didn't see the original al qaeda coming from our support of the afghanistan rebels against the soviets. we need to be very, very cautious and is modest in the support that we hav we give. that's why despite how frustrating it is i have been carefully supportive of the administration in their fairly light touch, you know, supporting where it can in iraq with training and equipping, giving intel jenks, air power and saying, this needs to be settled by the people who live here. >> here say syrian saying we have two existential threat, and i don't want to put word in now mouth, but two threats assad and isil, help us. give us weapons. do something. >> with all due respect to my friend here, in syria, we are faced with a series of bad choices. we have the regime of assad, the isil, al-nusra, al-qaeda and we have a variety of islamists and a bunch of unorganized largely unable to help themselves national assists who are in many cases able to to defends their

own territory but very little else. >> are there any moderate to his help? >> we like to think so. >> if there are -- he thinks there are, but it is hard to see who is a moderate. we don't know how deep the support goes. even a moderate can be turned in to an extremist when they see a threat from another side they think only extremists there are for protect them. we don't know who the moderate once work for. it's a chaotic country someone al eyeded between isil, al-nusra, immaterial lamb i haves and get trained by the americans and rotate back, there are no birth certificates there we don't know who they are. >> i said today not tomorrow. assad is a huge liability. if is sad falls today, al-nusra front, and isis would fill the security vacuum. this is the predicament faced -- >> let me finish plea, let me finish. our hearts are with the syrian people. 40% of the syrian people are now

either living in exile or refugees or displaced people. we know what has happened. the question is how do you think power? how do you strengthen the moderate. the nationalist position. it's the weakest link in syria that's why isis, the american strategy to come back to the central question, it should do more in terms of resources in terms of training, in terms civil society. in terms of leadership. most, the most important thing that the united states can do now is to spend more capital in trying to really help broker a political settlement, difficult as it is, and i see movement on this front with just seeing the united states is much more engaged with the russians hopefully bring saudi arabia and iran in in order to have a transitional government where assad is shoved aside. easier said than done of course. at this particular stage throwing military might inside syria would comply came and aggravate and complicate the solution.

>> how do you have a political settlement. >> truly is the most important thing if our reading is correct -- [speaking at the same time] >> isil is raining young girls at the motorcycle. how dmoment, how on do you negotiation that. >> saudi rake what, turkey qatar on one happen, a iran and hezbollah on the other hands. the syrian factor is the least important. the regional war by proxies, the goble rivalry what you need do here is. [speaking at the same time] >> overnight they were able to help broker two major ceasefires. >> and it was broken. >> it and was broken and still this is where the united states is not doing enough, we should do more in that on the diplomatic, political, humanitarian question no in order to bring about the exit of is al jazerra sad. if assad, i hope, my stance is very clear if is al jazerra asss

there is there is no isis. >> the big picture solve the saudi iranian cold war that fixes it. >> on absolutely not. isis exists today because it was allowed to operate with impunity in eastern syria. it also exists because it fed sectarianism in places like iraq. it would bomb shia mosques then bomb sunni mosques. that vicious cycle helped give it a certain cadre that it could recruit from and develop over the years. it's not just a broadly geopolitical fight. it's way too offense i can. we have to look at the chaos of the syrian regime. the barrel bombs are being dropped every single day that allows isis to exist. not just operationally -- [speaking at the same time] >> but also convincing the locals suffering from the barrel bombs every day that we are your protectors you have to give them an alternative and that is sunni

nationalist groupings. [speaking at the same time] >> is this vision that he has possible at all? >> no. no. it's simply not. there is truth to what both are saying. and i think we need to realize nothing in the middle east is mono causal. both of them are right. isil is -- does it have roots in the -- >> 34eu8 terry or diplomatic, are you in the mid until. >> no, we need a short-term military solution. there is a problem in iraq and syria that we cannot wait for a civil society solution for. we need a military solution i think first in iraq our partners are certainly more reliable in iraq and then eventually any syria. >> jeb bush wants to imbed marine with his iraqi troops. >> i'll gait to that. >> in the longer term we need to look very hard at the real road causes the promotion of islamism in the region, the lack of any other legitimate means of political sport in all of these deep state style regimes and the

tollal lack of economic opportunity. we weren't fixing these tomorrow, but that swamp has tonight drained. >> jeb bush wants to imbed troops with iraqi droops s that insane. >> bad idea. not insane bad idea. >> if you are talking about intervention, the u.s. has been dismal when it comes to state building and human rights and the rule of law. if you are asking about the united states, look at the record of the united states in the last 60 or 70 years. this does not speak well for user the values that the united states sent forth at the end of day. -- stands for at the end of day. syria and iraq and the renal as as a whole you are talking about state building. we have already established that assad is responsible and nouri al-maliki is responsible. we are established this is facts, the breakdown in state institution you have to rebuild state from the bottom up. >> reporter: you are you have empower civil societies this is social and aye ideological and military i agree, you need in order to talk the 345s consider by isis -- >> it's academy i object.

[speaking at the same time] >> its complexion and not -- >> it doesn't develop in a vehicle up. >> you have to rebuild the institutions and that cannot be done military as we learned in iraq. invade a rack, topple government. destroy the state and establish a democracy. >> how do you rebuild institutions when the allies of the united states and the west for want of a better word are military dictators, like -- >> that's a question -- >> like egypt. >> this is a long historical struggle. the arab spring uprising, remember the arab spring, millions, millions of arabs, what were the rallying cry? freedom, justice, dignity. these are what -- why? they were aborted and derailed by counter revolutionary forces by the old regime and ducks. [speaking at the same time] >> here is the thing, the united states has an option when the civil revolutions were taking place before it became militant to do something to stop the slaughter.

the slaughter was one way. people forget. why did these extremist group as cord to this propaganda of at sad regime existed from the very beginning but the arab spring was led by society groups absolutely some islamists but a lot of students, it was not an armed up riding. isis took advantage of the chaos and of the vacuum that was for. ed by regimes like bashar allah side and iranian foreign fighted fermenting sectarianism. and ventural tull venture even. [speaking at the same time] >> by bloody regimes. you are repeating this of course the regional powers iran is tight tightin tighting for prot? >> assad. [speaking at the same time] >> the sectarian narratives are out there.

syria gives us a microcosm of the region. the people are in a situation where all they have to choose from is some authoritarian regime or radical islam i haves i don't see how we can fix that right now in the larger region we have time to find solutions. >> we have ran out of the time unfortunately. there could go on for hours. >> that's an academic points. >> fascinating debate. thank you so much. gentlemen. thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. the "third rail" panel is next. you don't have to trust your enemy to deal with them. >> this is the best deal we are going to get. >> for people who vote for this, they are going to own iran's actions over the next decade.

on the next "third rail," more than 150 americans are treated for gun assaults every day. america does have many gun laws, are they useless? get back to this week's show, we are going to continue our discussion about why hasn't

the 34us limb world tried to defeat isil. author of ashley's war. tom davis a former republican congressman from virginia. and author of. and valerie a former covert cia optiociaops officers. game let's start with you, isil controls larmts parts o large ps syria and using violence as a tool. as do other governments around the world. at what point do we have to except them as not just isil but the is lat i ca islamic state. >> they are trying to upset the international order not trying to become parts of it. they wanted the u.n. seat the taliban did. the regional ambitions being. these guys are trying to career

at an entirely new international order that i think makes it very difficult to come on the argument of when do you recognize these -- >> they want to create a new international order. but the united states invaded, for example, afghanistan, it didn't invade the ta taliban. it was accepted as the governor authority -- >> but not recognized. >> but accepted. it's the player, you have to deal with them. they are in charge of millions of people. is that ever going to happen with isil? >> i don't see it happening any time in the near future. i think if you look at everything that the international community is trying to do, whether effective or not, it is not trying to learn to live with isis, it's trying to learn to how to upset that world view which they are embracing and espousing and he incredibly effectively spreading via social media. >> valerie, we are not talking about recognizing them, but do they have to be accept? and maybe accepting them as i soras asort of governor authoris a long way to defeating them. >> lets look back in history.

a lot of countries have been born out of violence, relinquish arc mine car, the french revolution and ultimately they did become part of the international community. >> reporter: gaigame is right. there is no way they will be accept. a nation state needs to deliver services, while they have done a little bit from my reading they are provide something pockets of stability. is that going to be enough. and who do you call? who d call if you want to have y sort of interim nation? al bag daddy i bagdad is such ay character we don't know if he's alive or dead. what if they keep this land for another 10 years, at what point

do we recognize them -- >> if they want to be content with this piece of land overtime. something could ham. they have to change a little bit and recognize international order and bombed are yous but at this point they show no intent to do that, i don't see them going anywhere but more of the same. until they get defeated and knocked out. they don't acknowledge international law or boundaries of anybody else, they have to change if they vest want to get recognized and there is precedents for that. you have had countries that start off this way and soon are or later find a place they are comfortable with and become countries and recognize recognized they have to have a radical change in the way they view the world to get recognized. >> the one way to look at them are the shock troops of the millions of sunnis feeling disenfranchised in iraq they are completely disconnected from the shia governing body. and you can see that throughout the region. so he, yes, we have to deal with hem and i would like to see our

allies step up in a much more robust manner than what they have been doing thus far. >> which allies in particular. >> saudi arabia, jordan for starters. >> it's hard for imagine their ambitions or speed being satisfied though. they came out of what was -- i talked to administration officials 24 months ago who said this -- the de facto policy right now is containment. right now what we are seeing is the limits of that policy. because in to that containment policy emerged with speed and with real ambition, the isis situation that we have now. >> okay. let's move on. congress is still debating the iran nuclear deal. but is the obama administration using a hard spin to sale the agreement. >> the white house turning up the heat and the rhetoric to get the iran deal passed. >> the choice we face is ultimately between diplomacy or some form of war. >> it sabotages the deal. >> we could be forced in to a war with iran. >> once a war begins the chances of iran developing a nuclear

weapon would only increase. >> valerie we just saw you in that video. with jack black i would like to say. your group is joining the white house and endorsing the deal and telling people, hey, come on, you have to support the deal. but aren't you almost mirroring the opponents' pop began duh here by saying the alternative is war. who says the alternative is war? where is this one up to war that we have all missed? >> there are those that are opposed to the deal who velshi no other better option. the notion that sanctions can be reimposed is fanciful. russia and china have reached the limit of what thick do. the rest of the world is eyeing iran very eager there on get back involved in trade with th them. i see case attacker choice. there is a an he norm plus disparity those that want the deal have put 10s of thousands

of dollars in to this. those that are in favor of it have very low budge tote get out the world -- >> aren't you respond to go propaganda with propaganda. if i was rouhani i would go, what, they are telling the american people if we don't strike a deal with them, there is nuclear war. >> this all about messaging. >> you got a message one side. you have a message on the other side. >> who is messaging? >> not one republican is going to vote for this deal or could they survive if they did vote for the deal. people are looking at their base constituents as they do with everything. from the administration's point of view they have to rally their base f they do that, that will happen. if it splits, if is explain teres too much it's in jeopardy and then a lot of things happen. >> do you believe that those, particularly republicans, those that are against the deal are saying things like the deal itself gives iran a bomb are lying? do you agree with that. >> there is exaggeration in politics all the timeism think you get exaggeration on both

sides to make your point at this point. i think you are seeing a lot of hyperbole when you get in to debates. >> the stakes are so high. >> the passions are so high. >> the problem for the people that vote for this, it may be the right thing today. but anything iran does over the next 10 years with the money that they are going to be getting out of this, they can be held accountable to politically at the table. >> it's a risky vote. but a lot of things are risky in politics when you cast it. i voted for the iraq war little knowing how they would conduct the warfare and how bad it would turn out for, you know, for everybody involved. >> my don't you want the deal? >> look, i just -- it goes back as a republican, this is the guy who negotiated with berg dal and gave away some of the best taliban people up for a deserting and you just don't trust their negotiating instincts. i think at you take a look at that, giving iran this slew of money, when their economy was weakening because of oil prices to me look like bad timing. >> wouldn't that help stabilize the country, the region. >> reporter: it may. that's the gamble. but they may just send out more

tour or i remember around the region which they have done. >> gail when you read the spin and maybe even the counter propaganda. did you truly believe that the alternative is war? >> you are relying on the enforcement mechanism and the timeline. you are hoping that you are buying more time that you get to a point where nuclear war is -- where this option is much less likely. but really it's the enforcement mechanism that everybody is betting on. and so, you know, i had a republican say to me it seems like this is their version of you are with us or you are against us. right? everybody has -- [speaking at the same time] >> absolutely. because, you know, the crazy thing is, that in fact in by bart san nuclear policy experts, are pretty much in agreement. there is a consensus that this is the best deal we are going to get at this point. it's not perfect, earn acknowledges that. but there is a lot of nonpolicy experts that are speaking out against it because of the

political aspects to it. >> valerie, again going to this idea of war or no war, may be something that's far more root ed in reality are the fears that a strengthened iran with $100 billion would be allowed to be more powerful in lebanon with hezbollah in yemen. >> syria. >> and supporting bashar. not apocalyptic nuclear war that's at the heart of it. >> that's a possibility. we don't know yet. what we do know is that military action is only goin going to sek iran by one to two year old, by the estimates. then what? >> you think they want the bomb? >> yes. clearly their actions prior to this have demonstrated that. but as president reagan showed, you don't have to trust your enemy to deal with them. the best prime example being the deals he cut with the soviet union. you have to monitor as gai gayls saying with enforcement

mechanism. robust infection to be able to have the snap-back sanctions. >> robust inspection is his in the deal so what is your problem some. >> you are giving them a slug of money at this point to export terrorism. and there is no hint that they will change their regime in any shape or form. >> there has been a huge change from reel prior days, does that encourage you? >> i am a pessimist on that. it's a gamble for him people who vote for this he this ill within iran's actions over the next did decade. >> where know where benjamin netanyahu stands on this. >> clearly. >> is this factor ed in to it that a deal might force had i hands to bomb the nuclear facilities. is that part of what you are talking about? >> i can't speak to that. he has made his rational extraordinarily clear before the united states congress. what we have now is i think the best deal we have going forward. because look at the flip side. if congress turns us down and

somehow they are able to override president obama's veto, what will happen without a doubt is iran will say, okay, we have tried, and we are going to go toward a nuclear path. >> you no longer have the sanctions anymore. >> it's dissipated. >> to that extent the president has boxed in his opponents, it's not an either or situation at this point. iran gets something even if this is turned down. >> let's move on. america is still six months way from the first presidential caucus of 2016, but have republicans already alienated half the electoral atrophy nai nails. >> you call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. >> there was blood coming out of her eyes. blood coming out of her -- whenever. >> future generations will look back if i history of our country and call us barbarians for murdering millions of babies and and. >> and we change the policy to be pro-life and protect children instead of rip up their body parts and sell them like they

are parts to a buick. >> tom davis, we got a taste of that. we saw donald trump and what he said about megan kelly. jeb bush questioned half a billion dollars for women's health issues. marco rubio, you know, talking about abortion. and against abortion exceptions. what going on here? are they alienating half of country? >> i was if of all, i think to make the premise that all women somehow share the same view on abortion is wrong. you have a lot of pro-life women. you have a lot of pro-choice men. and what has happened with plans parenthood, even hillary clinton expressioned her ab horns at some of the statements that were made and the manner in which they were made. the elect is a long way away, but the pro-life groups are a strong part of the republican constituency. people who feel strongly about that issue have already sorted themselves out. if you are pro-life and that's your issue and you are republican if you are pro-choice and that's your only issue you are a democrat.

>> he makes a point. are he being a bit patronize to go assume all womens are against the those statements. >> every time you play those things it's a gift to the hillary clinton and every other democrat that's running. because it is rhetoric that looks out of touch. if you look at the reality. there are some incredibly powerful and strong voices among women in the republican party and they are the first to tell you this all of these conversations are not helpful to them because they would like to move well beyond every one of these discussions but they know that we like them. we, being in the media, right? and they also know that they are good tv. and so you have really sub10 toews issues that get lost in a lot of rhetoric and i think we also don't acknowledge how many women are playing railroad strong roles in the republican party and then you have certain very tone deaf comments that just play in to creating a rah toll cal volcano that keeps the whole machine moving. >> does that mean that the most extreme on these views, republican candidate, might get elected? >> i find it very difficult to imagine it.

and i also think when you at that you can to those republican candidate, you know, governor kasich or governor bush, they do not find it helpful to have all of these conversations and all of these discussions going on about issues that they would rather not discussion. but so i don't think that you'll see the most extreme candidate -- >> valerie, are these guys representative of the republican movement as a whole or just extreme anomalys? >> after the g.o.p. defeat in the 2012 presidential election, they themselves came out with sort of a damage a he is cecil. what just happened? and one very clear evaluation of it, was that, you know, we really need to do a better job being inclusive of women and minorities. and you know, exhibit-a. is dawned trump. >> they scooped with the todd aiken legitimate rape and -- [speaking at the same time] >> are they doing the same thing now version 2.0. >> there are many examples, curiously, people forget this. planned parenthood not all that long ago was completely support

ed in a bipartisan fashion now it has become so hyper partisan, which is unfortunate, because you feel that somehow if you are outside of the line of whatever given party stance is, you are bucking that tide and it should be a completely separate issue altogether. but what we are seeing with trump and the others, it's not helping the g.o.p. brand. >> the election is over a year ago. the general election. republicans will get their nominee. i doubt it will be donald trump. it will be someone a little more mainstream on these issues likely to be more pro-life probably. that's not a killer in inning ig winning a national elect. >> but you clearly have a problem here if it's not donald trump if it's marco rubio who it says a woman is raped she should be forced to keep the baby. wouldn't center right republican women prefer someone like hillary clinch toon they wer cle in --

>> if that was the only question, yes. but it's a patch work issue that arise different years have different issue matrix, if this were the only issue i would say yes. i think there will be other issue that his people are concerned about. you get a candidate that doesn't emphasize put it out front, i don't think it's going to hurt him. election is a long way away, you have somebody like donald trump out there it will be -- >> it sounds like you are down playing the importance of these particular issue. >> i do. >> they do not emphasize, that's the point. remember kansas do the do like to mover o. democrat candidates would like it keep putting it back couple it's great for fund raising and rhetoric. and so it's also great for the story from the media side. >> a lot of eyeball on his it. >> i think it's hard to move on from these conversations but i think you'll see reasonable republican candidate trying to. >> are you sure we will not be talking about this talk. >> they will be talking to their bays about this. these are primary that his we are talking about where you have a significant part of the party just is very strong on this

issue. and candidates are trying to show their bona fides to these groupings, that's why you see it. after the nomination republicans won't mention it will be the democrats. >> craw, they will scuttle back. >> that's all the time that we have. thanks so much for your time. straight ahead. stripped their freedom, why are prisoners putting their lives on the line for people they have never met. >> what motivates them is that they are actually able to have some redemption, do something that betters their own lives and also saves others. coming up at the top of the hour, massive crowds gather in rio and other cities, voicing their anger at the brazilian government and embattled president dilma rousseff. one of the leaders of the civil rights movement julien bond has died think we'll examine his legacy of leadership he leaves behind. also every day 40 sit million americans face not having enough nutritious food to eat.

we'll go to chicago to see how bad the problem is in the heartland and two women fight to go make history

>> they believed in what they were doing but they were

more than 4,000 wild fires have burned through california since january. and 10,000 men and women bravely fight to save thousands of acres of land. but you might be surprise today learn 40%, some 4,000 of those firefighters, are prisoners. "america tonight's" sarah hoye met some of them in california. sarah joins us here in new york. sarah, these are prisoners, right? i wonder what motivates them to go out and fight fires? >> they are actually inmates who volunteer to do the work. what motivates them is that they

are actually able to have a little redemption, do something that betters their own lives and also saves others. and saves forests but also saved people. so it gives them a true sense of purpose, if you will. >> did you get a taste of that, of that sense of purpose. >> i a. absolutely did. with the two gentlemen that we spoke with at length what was interesting to hear from them was kind of the sent that they were almost embarrassed to talk about what got them there. right? these were real people who happened to do a crime but yet they are paying for that crime. right? they are locked up. but now they have this chance to better themselves. and so one of the gentlemen we met, you know, he's a father, he has two children. and so this is that just doesn't say i am a criminal and i did something but but look at what i am doing. >> let's have a look at an excerpt of your report. >> and what are you in for? >> assault with a deadly weapon and 211. >> what's a 211? >> robbery. >> i am no assault with a deadly weapon. with a firearm. >> these men are firefighter

convicts. all charged with a low-level felony or less. >> when you are saving those homes, the community doesn't care whether they are inmates or free cal fire people, they are just thankful. >> the inmates must learn to trust not only their cap pape, but also one another. >> in fire camp, there are some politics, but on our crew, when we leave this yard, we are a team. it doesn't matter what color you are, all these guys right here are my brothers and i will do whatever i need to do to make sure that they getting to home to their families. >> and sarah, in your larger report you said, you know, it looked at a glance by summer camp. did it feel like you were with prisoners in a prison? >> not at first. so when we pulled up, you know, you kind of looks around like where are we right now? >> it's beautiful, right? >> it is. but it also really did look like a summer camp. that's a legitimate observation. but then as soon as you step through the door to the main kind of entrance area, if you

will, you knew you were dealing with a corrections facility. >> now, this saves california millions of dollars, clearly it helps putting out fires. but does it help rehabilitate these guys? >> absolutely. the recidivism rate for these guys on the fire crews section extremely low. they not only have a tangible skill but the bigger issue that keeps from you returning is that sense of i am a human, i don't have to do this. right? so there is -- once you takeaway someone's hopelessness and despair you are able to succeed. that's what in problem does it's what's interesting, being in the military you hear people make similar comparisons there is something about this team working, this brotherhood that they have that really does change their outlook on how they see the outside world. >> when you think think of prison you think of anything other than brotherhood you think of every man for himself surviving looking over your holderrer. >> that's not what i got from these gentlemen. thisnot feel look an end oz, it didn't feel like i was going to get shank ed in two minutes, it

was people who were reflective, people saying what they wanted to do once they were out. very forward thinking. so whatever they are doing, it's clearly working. >> sarah, that's wonderful. great to feature your report here on "third rail." >> thank you. >> that does it for this week's show but the conversation continues on our website at aljazerra.com/3rdrail and on twitter i am eu78 ran garda, good night.

rye this is al jazeera america. here are today's top stories calling for her ouster, tens of thousands of people take to the streets of brazil demanding the resignation of the president also, remembering the legacy of a civil rights giant, a look athe