using ground penetrating radar, scientists discovered that the stones form part of a sea arena. keep up with more on our website, the address, www.aljazeera.com. >> i'm l ali velshi "on target", trouble police developments ask for help. trying to weed out bad cops. under the gun. police officers put to the test with split second decisions on the use of deadly force. there is a new mandate for the nation's police departments. evolve now. tonight i bring you police chiefs from across the country and take you inside some of the intense police training that you will see the the changes

demanded are a result of case force. out rager upted over deadly incidents, including eric garner, walter scott in south carolina, freddie gray in baltimore. it is unfair to blame every cop, most in america, for the actions for a few. those that want easy answers or scapegoats will not be here. towards the end of the show we walk in the shoes of a police officer that had to make a split second life or death decision of the type i hope none of us ever has to make. the calls for change continue. as do the calls for real transparency and answers. and one major problem is a lack of data. from 2003 to 2009 there was almost 5,000 arrest-related deaths. the data is spotty, there's no comprehensive database where this information is collected. meanwhile a new report by amnesty international found all

50 states failed to comply with international standards on the use of deadly force. specifically that force bedeployed only a resort. law. >> a handful of police departments call for dlii. many have invited the u.s. department of justice to department. the department of justice spends about 18 months gathering information, offering reforms, and they get out. but even trouble police departments seek back up from the government. a number of critics charge that cii is a toothless way to placate and outrage the public. after all, can a voluntary initiative be expected to inform on a culture of policing.

paul beban embedded with the police. the department there has implemented its own collaborative reform following deadly incidents. happened. >> a public apology from a police chief. not something the city of spoke an heard before. process. >> the chief was hired in 2012 to turn around a police department mired in misconduct. and outright lying after an innocent man was killed police. >> i think that communities and individuals can appreciate somebody doing this. to some degree we have to get over ourselves. >> this is where a mentally disabled tender was beaten, hogg tied and sat on by police in 2006. he would die of his injuries two days later.

the officer involved serving four years. the low point. >> it was a low point. >> rick represented the family in a lawsuit against the city of spokane and officers involved. >> it revealed use of force policies. we did not have an oversight. as well as a level of absolute defensiveness. by city government. it's a story repeated too often. an incident involving what appears to be excessive use of force by police. the result, an outraged community, both left with more questions and answers. >> the community didn't trust the police. the police across the community. >> you came into a heated atmosphere, a sense that the system was broken, yes.

>> incredibly broken. there was tension between the police department and this unresolved incident. >> a few months after the department of justice was called. he asked them to come in and do an audit and recommend reforms. >> asking someone to come in, especially the government. to come in and say take a look opens yourself up for criticism. >> it's a collaborative reform commission. ron davis heads up the d.o.j. they made 42 recommendations for reform. >> the truth hurts. >> selected ignorance is fatal. >> there's programs under way. the idea is to fix what is broken in law enforcement and repair a frayed relationship. the big question is do the programs fix the problems or are they a little more than a cover story aimed at placating an

angry community. the perception has been that you guys got the document. it's done:. >> you know, i think that's right. that you can look at this as checking the boxes. leave me alone now. i think what we are seeing across the country is a group of police leaders that are either in place or merging. who completely understand we have changed the way we do business. them. >> there's no proof the collaboration with the d.o.j. works. we have little data on the effectiveness on the programme in facilitating long-term reforms. and sustaining that reform. we hear that

about police reforms. they changed. it's sticking. they tracked the date through the police contact, through the courts, through to the gaols. these report cards are the metrics that the community can log on to and see what is happening. jacky is an academic who is creating a 9-point system. to imagine how well reforms are working. i see the police coming out: here is some evidence. here is evidence how it works. >> reporter: one of the most challenging d.o.j. recommendations is collecting data. proving that training works. today they are getting crisis intervention training, how to deal with people that are mentally ill.

>> the last time this happened i tried killing myself. >> steve james is another academic from washington state university, and he is embedded with the police to collect cold-hard data to see whether the reforms are working. >> one of the problems is it's never been studied. we have a lot of anecdote at data, stories about an officer well trained and performing well on the street. study. >> reporter: he runs the state of art lab in washington state where he gathers almost real-life data in real time. >> sir, sir. fast. i'm here to go through some of the same tests cops go through in the simulation lab. that was fast. you weren't kidding. >> absolutely. that's how things can go wrong, when it comes to things

force. what can we expect from the officers under stressors, time pressures and so on. and that you have experienced yourself. what can you expect from a human being. when we find that answer. that's the level that we should hold them accountable to. >> they are tracking the process, even how officers use the training in the field. >> i can't leave until i get that information. >> you can't leave. tell me why? >> i have to confirm this is your residence. >> we can measure how much use of force an officer has. they have to write a report when they fire a weapon, or use a taser - any of those issues. >> it seems like she was high. we escalate things. we have to understand the totality of the circumstances, what the officer knew at the time, the time pressures they were under. >> use of force has gone deadly

since 2010, because police are including more types of encounters than before. the promising sign of the last year, 2013 to 2014 is that the incidents are down 22%. but it could take time to prove an entire culture of policing can be changed. chief stroub is optimistic. >> i don't want to overuse the temp, tipping point. we are truly at dipping point in our history. if we do this right, and get it right. we'll profoundly change paul beban joins me now. any sense of how this is going. >> the reaction from the community is trust but there's a lot of acknowledgment that there is still a long way to go. the good example was a small minority community. there's a disproportional number

of african-americans, and in spokane, they were 2% of the population. the small population we were interacting with. they were not arresting them more, people want to improvement. >> stay with us, you are coming back to show what it's like when a police officer had to make a decision that you and i have to make. we ask the guys, at the department of justice responsible for reforming the police, whether the programme really works. >> i think what is happening is through the use of technology, through some of the tragic high profile incidents. it's bringing to light that there's not a lot of trust.

we are talking about reforming the culture of policing in the united states. the department of justice's collaborative reform had a busy year. working with washington, ferguson and other cities to retrain how police use force. it's a new programme around for a few years, and only the polices las vegas has completed the reform the the question remains, does it work. paul beban sat with the guy at the helm of the reform, ronald davis. the director of the cops justice. community oriented policing services. it's a big deal, but not clear whether the voluntary reforms change the culture of policing. and rebuild trust. .

>> we spoke with frank. the one thing he said that struck me is cops will have to get used to doing something they have not done before. that is to say i'm sorry, we were wrong. it's a change in tone, is that a message you are sending to other chiefs and the department. >> i'm going to expand it. i'm not going to make it. i don't make the officer in that situation. i think the government, i think leaders will have to acknowledge a couple of matters. the first acknowledgment that law enforcement has to make community by community is a role played in generational mistrust. the many communities, that we are talking to, the history suggests that there has been time in which law enforcements play a role in enforcing discriminatory loss. many live in these communities. i think the law enforcement acknowledges a role that we

play, and how we distribute the destruction of the communities. the next is when things don't go right. the candor and acknowledgment. we apologise. it is crystal. it's legitimacy. i think the average american citizen can accept mistakes by the leaders. what they don't want to accept are cover ups, denials, because mistake. i think the chief has it right and says that we asked a government, whether as a police officer, the chief, the director, have to be candid in acknowledging what we have done thus far, where we need to go. and there's a better outcome. appropriate. >> how do you ensure when you make recommendations that these things are done. >> that's a great question. the way the attorney-general is providing support for law

enforcement has a continuum of services. they were not the special litigation section. the attorney-general made it clear. it is a necessary tool. we have collaborative tools. the assessment is a public report, where we tell the community, the police department about an independent evaluation. this is working, this is not. and more importantly. here is how you fix it. we provide progress reports to the community saying here is what the department is doing at six months and a year later. we don't have the enforcement, we have the enforcement of public opinion. that we can empower the community to have their own department available. what it should engage in. and to provide reports of the activities and that.

in that sense, for a jurisdiction, who wants to transform, reform, it's a great process. for a process, for some agencies it may be the worst option, it may be the best option. that's why the attorney-general has the continued services to provide options and hit the option of the agency as the perfect match. >> speaking of lessons learnt, you wrapped up the start to finish project in las vegas. what data can you point to out of a project like this, to say this worked. we were successful. >> in the early stages, it's a couple of years since we started the project. and you saw the data increasing the shootings. we saw the other project, the training process. if you look at the model for the country, looking at how to do

aerial based training, instead of talking about it in the classroom. evaluating decision making, you are looking as far as deescalation. frankly, you are talking about admitting it, we don't have the answers to that. which put out the last budget cycle, and this one, starting with reform. we have an independent advisory to identify the data sets that we need to collect to evaluate not just doing the two years we were there, but long tern change and cultural change. >> to evaluate you. >> exactly. we know the process of recommending assessment base. the programme as a whole. does it result in changes while we are there. we need to know if it's resulting in culture change, long-term change. sustainable. do we need to make adjustments. we started

that process to make sure we can learn when it collected interesting data may help to guide us. it's innovative of that. looking at the data, they'll be there it will be objective. i think the obligation is that we use us, work with us. transforming the organization. they need to know it was the enny space. there's something behind it. >> in los angeles, as you point out. there'll be follow up. community leaders there, they are waiting to see - they are in wait and see change for reel. >> here is a great thing. we saw some apprehension. requesting whether this could be done. to her credit.

most of the report was done, once the process was done, it was the same organization, it was pleasantly surprised, seeing the changes in training, and some shifts in the organization. for anyone that knows about organizational. it's taking route. it. now that we have done the assessment and reports, the department of justice with las vegas is done. what we want to see now, we'll have to go back and visit and see where we are right now, on the shootings going down, we continue with the training, looking at the culture. intuitively, it feels like it tuition. next - to shoot or not to shoot. it's easy to criticize police actions with the benefit of hindsight. as paul beban reports, it's not so clear cut.

>> at one time i felt that selling cocaine was my purpose. >> as the amount of drugs grew, guns came in. >> the murder rate was sky high. >> this guy was the biggest in l.a. >> i was goin' through a million dollars worth of drugs every day - i liked it. it's hard to believe that a friend would set you up. people don't get federal life sentences... and beat them. >> they had been trafficking on behalf of the united states government. >> the cia admitted it.

>> my name is imran garda. the show is called "

absolutely when is it appropriate for an officer to engage in the deadly use of force. there's no federal laws that say

when it's okay. amnesty international says many states have no laws on it at all. the rule of thumb is this. if an officer feels his or her life or the life of another human being is in danger. appropriate. i want to show you paul beban's experience at the use of force lab, where he encountered real scenarios that cops face, learnt there are grey areas when it comes to a cop's decision to shoot or not to shoot. >> reporter: this simulation will measure my reaction, whether or not i use force appropriately and all the while what my brain is doing. so i'm just going to watch what is happening here, reacting. >> absolutely. put yourself in the shoes of the officer. only use force if you feel your life or someone else's life is in okay. >> he's been called to oo domestic disturbance. >> do you understand?

>> yes, and told that the spouse is abusive and there's weapons in the house. this is one of those fastest shoot don't shoot scenarios. . >> sir, sir, sir. step... sir. sir. sir. [ gunfire ] >> wow. that went so fast. my heart is pounding. i didn't respond to any voice commands. wow, that was fast. you weren't kidding. >> absolutely. that's how quickly these things can go wrong. >> how do you feel you diddle? >> i feel i did poorly. >> one guy was shot. i got shot. >> with this. it's almost impossible to say. the weapon comes out so fast. there's still a decision cycle. is there a deadly threat.

am i justified to use force. all of that takes time. and with that there's no time - i have never seen anyone save >> right. the most you can do is take him down before he takes you down. >> absolutely. >> i'm shaken now. >> let me take this off. we are hearing so much about use of force lately in the news. what do we know about use of force training, how well does it work, does it not work. what effect does it have on real outcomes. >> one of the problems is it's never studied. there's a lot of anecdote at data and stories about an officer being well trained, performing well on the street, never a wide scale study. >> there's not a universal definition of use of force. it boils down to what a reasonable officer, given the information they know at the time, being able to neutralize a threat, with the appropriate level of force.

not. >> there's a grey area in everything you said. >> absolutely. >> when you consider that the decisions and evaluations about whether or not there's force required, and if so how much. we have a duty as a society to get it right 100% of the time. in reality, that will be difficult to do. tragedies. >> i watched you do that. you knew what the story was. it's important to tell that part of the story. there are many police officers with the decision. they may not get it right. steve james, the instructor was knowledgeable. it says bring out the inner cop. this is incredibly difficult. what they are doing is brand new. he's tracking every decision, every bit of data, every variable going into the last

moment of when an officer uses force. what are the stress levels, how much sleep they had. all of that plays a role in what happens when the officer decides whether or not to pull a trigger. we'll watch that glowsly. the problem is lots of police don't have that experience until the first time you are confronted with it. someone that is potentially going to kill someone, or kill you. it changes. you reported on the issue of police and gun violence and communities for a while. this has to add to your wealth of knowledge about this. >> it does. i'm not a trained police officer. i'm familiar with firearms. i sfelt good going into that. i performed terribly. i took two or three bullets. i might have taken her when i hit the perpetrators. it put in perspective how difficult this is. these things unfold incredibly quickly.

no matter the training, it will be difficult. >> paul beban, remarkable. that's the show for today. i'm ali velshi, thank you for [ ♪ ] no one wants to see a young person hurt or a future compromised. with every year we learn more about the routine injuries and long-term affects of scholastic sports on young bodies. our dreams of college scholarships and professional glory pushing kids to play more, harder, younger than before.