neave barker, al jazeera. and you can find out much more about that exhibition or anything else that we have been covering on our website, al jazeera.com. jazeera.com. >> planned parenthood executives were secretly recorded talking about a loner long-standing practice at the organization supplying fetal tissues to research institutions for medical research. there has been a lot of complaints about editing that distorts what was said, but the undercover recordings have fueled a powerful new movement on capitol hill to strip the family planning of all its federal funding. that is money that has nothing

to do with abortion. defending or defunding planned parenthood, it's the "inside story." >> welcome to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. for more than 75 years planned parenthood has provided birth control reproductive health services, scening for women and men. among the procedures performed around the country are abortions, which puts the clinic at the center of funding. it is once again the target of attempts to strip its government funding. not for abortions. that money is long been denied, but for other things that planned parenthood does.

it all started with conversation about fetal tissues, the by-product of abortions, conversations recorded, and some say that the tape is proof of what they said all along about the organizations. planned parenthood' friends said said that what they do is legal and well understood in the research world. but the new attempt to defund planned parenthood is now intertwined with presidential politics and the threat to shut down the federal government. presidential candidate senator ted cruz of texas is taking a lead role to ending funding for planned parenthood. >> i call on the united states congress today to stand up and lead and to defund planned parenthood. [ cheering ] >> cruz said that he's willing to shut down the government if necessary. meanwhile, republican congressman nick mulvaney of south carolina has directed 31 signatures of those who oppose

funding federal government when it comes to funding the planned parenthood. congressional wherings split along partisan lines. republicans denouncing the organization in the wake of undercover footage that appears to show the group illegally profiting from the sale of tissue from aborted fetuses democrats defended the organization which provides healthcare and reproductive services to 2.7 million patients a year. >> let's be clear, the entire premise of today's oh hearing is based on viral loose have been di detected, depunked an bunk debunked and discredited. >> this is not a republican issue and it is not a democrat issue. it is a basic test of our humanity and who we are a as a

human people. >> my district is a poor district, and large number of my district get their healthcare from planned parenthood. >> supporters point out that abortions account for a small percentage of services it provides. among the witnesses opposed to the organization with two women who survived their mother's attempts to have abortions. >> as a fellow american and fellow human being i deserve the right life to life. the same equal protection under the law as each and we've one of you. that we live in a time that where not only do such protections exist, but my tax dollars and yours go to fund an organization that was created to end my life. >> by law federal money cannot be used for most abortion cases

except in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is in danger. the federal money goes towards annual examines, cancer screenings, bird control. >> i'm outraged at the accusations made towards the organization that serves millions of women in our country. >> but the head of the judiciary committee plans more hearings on planned parenthood. >> joining me to discuss the future of planned parenthood and government funding for non-abortion-related services, th melissa and david medical marcy and david. >> when this story broke it was the first realization for a lot of people that this kind of thing was going on in the first place. let's start at the beginning. david, why does anyone want tissues from aborted fetuses?

>> well, it's interesting that the history of cell research actually taught that started back in the 50's and 60s, and about the only thing we could grow in the lab at that time were cancer cells and fetal tissue. a lot of people are still doing this old-fashioned science where they still want the same cells. they still want the same tissue. it's interesting, though, science has really moved onto the point that there are many, many alternatives, umbilical cord blood and whether we're talking about making vaccines or treating someone, over a million people treated by adult stem cells or basic modeling research there are alternatives. it's just that a number of scientists are stuck in these older days with the fetal tissue. >> marcy stench, is it legal to acquire, to possess, and to do experiments with this tissue?

>> well, i'm not a doctor. i'm not a scientist. i understand the political attacks, this is nothing new to planned parenthood. while we've seen these videos take a narrative in a particular direction, what it has done is uncovered more motivations for republicans to push a conversation around women's health that is not healthful to their cause when looking at the 2016 elections and it's completely unhelpful when trying to get more attention and more attraction from women voters to simply believe thatter it's to themselves, their doctors, and no one else to help make their healthcare decisions. >> but as far as you're aware, no one is doing anything illegally? >> correct, correct. what these videos are showing and what planned parenthood has

confirmed nothing legal has happened. there have been several investigations both from right wing organizations also from others who have looked into it and who have seen no wrongdoing, and it has continued to show how important it is and double down on the services that planned parenthood have provide which are mostly preventive services. >> is there informed consent. when a woman has had an abortion, when the tissues we're discussing are going to be transferred to a research organization, does the woman have to either in writing or verbally or in any way legally have to consent to they? >> i'm not someone who can speak to that. but i can tell you any decisions that are made around a woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy are decisions that belong to herself, her doctor and the people she trusts. we know that women trust planned parenthood to be there for their preventive care, and trust them to be there when they make these

deeply personal medical decisions. >> david prentiss, is there, as far as anyone is saying, charging, understands legal consent involved in this? >> there appears to be legal consent, but it appears to be maybe not fully informed consent, certainly misleading. we're able to see one of the consent forms from one of the planned parenthooded clinics in california. it starts out that feta feal tissue has been used to treat and cure illnesses. so there are some leading statement there is. they're supposed to assent that there will not be a change in the manner of the abortion being made or the timing or the

presentation. at least one of the videos one of the doctors talks about doing just that. really the leaders of planned parenthood have not denied. they're able to get more intact organs and tissues. >> we'll be talking about those techniques later in the program. has planned parenthood, marcy stench, for want of a better term by an "ick" factor, that people don't want to think or talk about these things. >> well, no, at the end of the day if you look at what fetal tissue donation has created in the past. we talked about the poe local vaccine, we talked about the small pox vaccine. there have been great medical research done from these. while we don't necessarily want to know the full steps along the way, but people who receive

these treatments, people who are on the receiving end of organ donations. at the end of the day those families are quite grateful for that. >> we're going to continue the conversation with marcy stench and david prentiss. is this really about feal tubs or is this threat to shut down the federal government really about abortion? defending or defunding planned parenthood. that's the "inside story."

>> millions at stake. shady investments. limited oversight. >> super pacs are part of the wild wild west of campaign finance. >> could actor daniel craig be the latest super pac scam victim? an ali velshi, on target, special investigation.

>> you're watching inside story p.m. i'm ray suarez. defending or defunding planned parenthood. it is reluctantly in the news again. is research using fetal tissues at the heart of this debate or without presidential politics and the national feud over abortion does this hardly make headlines? david prentiss and marcy stench is with me. david prentiss, the congress is not trying to stop the research by stopping planned parenthood? >> no. the fetal tissue that has come up here is just a lever to pry open the lid. most people in the country don't

realize that planned parenthood does abortions. most people don't realize that organs from these bettered babies are passed on to various researchers, and again, research that does not have much use at this point. it is antiquated research. the issue is really about educating people in terms of what goes on and how eventually some of our ta taxpayer money might be used for these abortion clinics. there are better ways to use it. there are clinics that do everything and more than planned parenthood does, including mammograms, which planned parenthood does not. treat various other things beside reproductive systems that don't do abortions. >> marcy stench, is planned parenthood caught in the cross fire, as if often is, of the

abortion debates? >> well, attacks on planned parenthood are nothing new. this is something that ever since their existence has been they have been a subject of controversy because of these attacks, and oftentimes misinformation that comes from right wing activist who is believe that the majority of what they do provide bogues care. planned parenthood does provide abortion care that is not funded by the federal government. 90% of the work that planned parenthood is preventive care, s td screenings, cancer screenings, these types of attacks are personal, which is why you see 7 and 10 americans say that it's more important to keep the government from shutting down than it is to shut

down planned parenthooded. this is just not where the american people are. they really want to see their elective leaders lead and they want women to make decisions for their own healthcare. >> you're dismissing these kinds of opposition with these types of attacks when these are people who honestly have a real problem with what is going on at planned parenthood. >> this is an organization. the people who came up with the video in the first place, they're activists. they come from a place where the republican people are. they've drug a society into a conversation at a is not helpful to them when the government is looking at eight legislative days before the government could potentially shut down. they're digging their heels in over planned parenthood. this is not where the american people are, and this is what drives women voters.

>> if you're a proponent of of abortion, is this a fight worth having? >> this is a fight worth having both politically and morally. a lot of this is educational to people understand what their taxpayer dollars may be going for, what is going on. and even the fact that planned parenthood does almost a third of a million abortion as year. we really do feel that there is a need for a house and senate for a vote on where the money goes. it's not just a matter of defunding planned parenthood but it's a matter of putting that money to use over 13,000 of these compared to less than 700 planned parenthood. >> marcy stench suggested that the government could get shut down on this.

could this backfire on your side of the argument? >> i don't think so. this is a fight worth having. this is a fight worth having to stand on principle, where do we want our money to be and where do we want our money to go. >> david preniss teaches molecular genetics at the catholic university here in washington, and marcy stench is the communications directer for emily's list which funds the political campaigns of pro-choice women's candidates and sporting and speaking publicly for planned parenthood in this debate. thank you for joining us. defending or defunding planned parenthood. that's the inside story.

>> welcome back to "inside story." i'm ray suarez. defending or defunding planned parenthood on the program. adam kipper is a fellow and editor of the new atlantis. welcome to the program. when we do anything involving the human person, involving medical research you have to work it through morally. what's okay, what's not. how do you add up the moral

calculous? >> that's a deep and difficult question and the easiest way on to it is to address something that was raised in an earlier segment. she emphasized the relationship between women and their doctors. well in ethics, in medical eth ethics you can sometimes say you can draw a line when an action that is morally controversial, and a su substantive action debt on it. in this case we can say maybe the fetus was going to be aborted any way. maybe it was going to be discarded. what is wrong with using that aborted fetus, using that organ and tissue to help people find cures for a morally laudable goal? the reason why you can make that

kind of argument, the reason why you can make that distinction is because you feel there is a fire wall between the morally controversial action, the decision to end a pregnancy and the subsequent action to use the morally laudable goal and use those tissues and organizes. but in the case of the planned parenthood sting videos we see that there is not really such a fire wall. the abortion providers are modifying the abortion procedure in order to procure organs. they're talking about the crush here or avoid crushing there to obtain a particular organ or particular type of tissue. >> the ethics are very important. the line that you're talking about would really be transgressed if we knew that

there were women who were getting pregnant for the purpose of producing this tissue in order to have it to perform the tests. but if these were women who are going to have the abortion anyway, doesn't using this technique or that technique with with the same end result amen up when you do your two sides of the ledger pretty much in the same place? >> well, i think so. but if the abortion procedure is altered, which i think is legally dubious and possibly- possibly--it's ethically do you havous, but possibly morally as well. if it's modified so that the woman and her needs are not, say, the only thing in the mix, but that the abortion provider is also trying to obtain organs and altering the procedure, that really is a fundamental transformation of the relationship between the doctor and the patient.

that then raises a whole host of questions. it is a morally fought procedure in this country. there is no question about it. you mentioned earlier the ick factor or the yuck factor. it could be difficult to articulate what is so troubling about this procedure or about other things in bioethics. but it is often true that that intuition that we have--it can often be that tha that is an expression of a deeper kind of wisdom. what one said was the wisdom of repugnance. the idea that maybe we can't articulate the clear, rational

moral case against the thing that we're fighting, but in fact in feeling that discomfort we may be expressing a kind of deeper wisdom. >> right now the acquisition, the research, that consent of a woman to consent to this, it's all legal. is there a difference between moral law and the law that is in plaque and white in legal text books? >> i'm glad you raise the issue of consent. there are definitely questions that are different in the moral and legal apples. we in this country do not permit organ organs to be sold. you can gift an organ, but you cannot sell it. consent may be there, but that's not enough. why? because we're concerned about poor people being exploited.

>> adam kipper, thanks for joining us. i'll be back in a moment with the final thought of ending pregnancy, and when the government gets to be and doesn't get to be involved. stay with us. it's inside story. >> coming up on al jazeera america, welcoming refugees, how a german soccer team and it's fans are taking a message of hospitality to heart. the crisis in europe is small compared to the human disaster in syria. what is it like for those who have stayed inside the country? plus getting relief. firefighters taking advantage of the break in the weather. and the aging voting machine. how it changes the voting process. that's next. that's next.

>> saints and sinners.

>> 42 years after the supreme court decision in roe v. wade one of the most important parts of the argument before the court and the majority opinion was compelling state interest. was there a point, the court was asked to rule, when the rights of a free citizen, a pregnant woman, are pair mounts, and then

the potential life in her womb advances to state interest, a government role in not only protecting the woman but protecting the future citizen she carries as well. the court decided yes there was a line when a developing fetus could command state interest in the third trimester of pregnancy. they seek to move the dividing line to somewhere else. what happens to a life that will not come to full person hood. that is tissue that researchers want and women consent to surrounds today abortion is legal. the informed consent to allow researchers to use the tissue after abortion is legal. unless a clinic is breaking the law, abortions are being performed before the legal standard for compelling state interest in a future child is at stake.

defunding planned parenthood will show congress' disapproval, but it won't change any of those other things. thank you for joining us on "inside story." >> this is aljazeera america, live in new york city. i'm del walters in tonight for tony harris. state of machine, chaos for thousands along the hungarian/serbian border, and clamping down on refugees trying to escape war. >> . >> millions inside of syria, stuck inside of that country, and the daily struggles and why they stay many. stranded, california wildfires