claimed responsibility and at that point i did say that it was an al-qaeda related group. >> look at the difference in these two statements one says it wasn't a preplanned attack that is jay carney talking publically and experts in libya said it was a well planned attack and they could not be further apart. they could not be. that's what i'm having a hard time figuring out and do you know what is interesting the date of this 9-14-12, do you know what else happened on september 14th there is another document that is kind of important? that is the same day that ben rhoades drafted the memo to under score these protests are rooted in an internet video from a broader failure of policy because we couldn't have libya your baby as he pointed out earlier we couldn't have that fail, couldn't have that, you

have jay carney saying this was no way a preplan planned attack and experts in libya talking greg hicks saying it was a well planned attack and susan rice for the shows and make sure you focus on the video, not about a broader policy failure after all we have an election coming in 50 some days. >> congressman i believe to this day the video played a role. i believe that the person. >> but your experts didn't. >> there were many experts. you probably haven't had an opportunity to read the excellent report issued by the democrats but on september 13th the intelligence community issued its first thorough, fully coordinated assessment of what happened in benghazi. it said we assess the attacks on tuesday against the u.s. consulate in benghazi, began spontaneously and attacks began spontaneously following the protest at the u.s. embassy in

cairo and ties with al-qaeda and there is no contradiction and protest and because of the video and those who were affiliated with al-qaeda. >> contradiction. >> there is no contradiction well planned attack, no preplanned attack, how about that? one of them is well planned and one is not and jay carney says no preplanned and expert in libya said it was preplanned. >> experts in libya were among the experts looking at this and analyzing it. we went on the basis of the intelligence community and they were scrambling to get all the information that they could and yes the intelligence community assessment served as the basis for what ambassador rice said when she appeared on the sunday show. and on september 18th, when the individual no footage arrived from the security cameras, the deputy cia director has

testified it was not until september 18th when the cia received the libyan government's assessment of video footage that showed the front of the facility with no sign of protesters that it became clear we needed to revisit our analysis and then after they looked at the video footage and f.b.i. reporting from interviews of personnel on the ground, in benghazi during the attacks, the cia changed its assessment and that was explained thoroughly in the by partisan report issued by the house permanent select committee on intelligence which did a very thorough job congressman. >> gentleman yields back and we will take a ten minute break and we asked for ten seconds and a third asked for ten seconds and if she holds it i will give the gentleman from alabama ten seconds. >> the ranking number is incorrect the august 17th memo i

was referring to in my last question we have not had the opportunity to discuss with secretary clinton and how it effected her decisions and it was just declassified last week. >> all right with that we will take a ten-minute break and come back. >> so representative seems to put her feet to the fire with respect to being an obvious contradiction with the point being made by the white house press secretary on what may have motivateed the benghazi attack verse what someone else in administration was saying not publically what motivated, would you say hillary was caught there? >> people would say what does it matter if it was a film or arc stra orchestrated by al-qaeda and it may be and clinton seemed to think it was orchestrated by al-qaeda would suggest a policy failure as opposed to if it was

a film that inspired people to act that is an event that is outside of the administration's control. >> sorry policy failure explain what you mean. >> the administration engaged in libya and hillary clinton say we have conflicts and people on the ground and this could be viewed as well i gave al-qaeda a target and they seized it. on the other hand if this is a film that some independent film maker has made and inflaming the internet because of anti-muslim you can make the argument the up risings in the middle east is not because of obama or hillary clinton and it's because of the film maker and that was important for the obama administration to make 56 days before an election because they didn't want people to think there had been a policy failure in libya or that somehow the administration had provoked or allowed and al-qaeda attack, they wanted before the election people to think well the jerk

who made the film, it was his fault. >> circumstances in libya that the united states helped create did not give rise to a terrorist event, right? so that terrorism was on the way in and we were beating terrorism and libya was one of the forefront areas we were doing this. you know, the deputy director of the cia who later became the acting director of the cia has written about this and testified about it and his account of this is somewhat interesting to recall right now, his account is for those, that first night we really didn't think it was the video but hearing a lot of different things and just didn't know. and that the next day we were hearing that this really probably was an orchestrated terrorist attack. what he does is leave a lot of room for confusion and the fact that they went to the video description, the video narrative first and there were these other inputs along the way. >> so how do you explain the

former secretary of state clinton at the time like the very night telling her family we know it was al-qaeda, this was not 48 hours later even. >> i would not distinguish and we sort of had this debate today i would not distinguish between protesters and terrorists. the overlap between these two groups the real issue here is the intentionality of it and the american and other effort in libya to make this a more stable society terrorist free society was there an organized terrorist attack that occurred on the anniversary of september 11th or was this a spontaneous uprising that nobody could have known about because it spread from cairo to tunisia or wherever and that was the issue but they are not mutually exclusive group. >> and if you believe them and the obama administration to say this was not our fault and because of a film and our policy is a session and in the administration would acknowledge off camera they could have done

better if hillary clinton issued a state they night saying there has been an attack and don't know what motivated it and looking into it and column condolence who was killed and jay carney could say there are issues and looking into it and i don't know and might have gotten them in trouble with the press who wanted answers immediately but could have kept this as a much shorter story and by the time a few days later they can say with some certainty okay yes it was al-qaeda and this has been the one exception to how we handled al-qaeda in the obama administration probably wouldn't have mattered as far as the election is concerned and if you go out there and get ahead and over your skis and say it was not al-qaeda, susan rice goes on the sunday talk shows and draws attention to the film and had evidence that was wrong that is where they get in some political trouble. >> reference on the 14th,s three days after the attack to ben roads the communication director in the white house let's talk about not the broader policy failure but stick with the film

that suggests strongly there are political calculations being made about the story that they want to put out and that is a point that the republicans on this committee are trying to drive home that there was a cover up. >> right, but it's not just about the presidential election. it's also about the policy itself. if libya a policy seemed to be a failure at that moment yes it would effect the presidential election but what about rest of the u.s. policy in other countries that is following the same idea that these could churs could be transformed to reduce the terrorist violence in the way we have gone about it in libya so it's a pretty far reaching thing. >> sort of an argument to look at libya as a success story given the state of discombobulation and no government for the secretary of state to call and no structure in place to have any kind of stability. >> by that night and we heard from testimony and some of the evidence early in the day that

had already been a series of attacks not with the same outcome but a series of attacks on u.s. interest in libya earlier that year and you had ambassador stevens and other members who had been on the record saying do you know what maybe you can rachet up security and do more to help us, they knew that at the time of the benghazi attack, they knew things were getting worse and not better. >> let's just slight diverge from the point of committee and ask the experts on the panel what would have been the consequences if the so called clinton policy as the republicans want to put it or the obama administration policy in libya had not been pursued if the u.s. had stayed out of it, what then? >> you know, who knows how to predict that but probably either more chaos or the rise of some kind of leader that would have been all the reasons that gadhafi was gotten rid of and throughout the region we see a tremendous amount of chaos that

is ceaseless and almost a reversion to a tribal chaos and there is no model that you can say yeah that is the way to do it, it's not iraq and afghanistan and not syria and not libya. >> is a fine point on it there is no republican plan that would have necessarily done anything better. >> the republicans would likely say that more military presence, a harder military policy, more aggression on the ground and from the air would have been more of the answer and that this idea of going back to a diplomatic way of solving problems was a turn in the wrong direction is probably what they would say. >> we are going to take a break here and we will continue with more from the panel and capitol hill questioning secretary of state hillary clinton and with my guests and stay with us on al jazeera america.

>> we're here to fully get into the nuances of everything that's going on, not just in this country, but around the world. >> ...as if there were no cameras here, would be the best solution. >> this goes to the heart of the argument >> to tell you the stories

that others won't cover. how big do you see this getting? getting the news from the people who are affected. >> people need to demand reform... >> we're here to provide the analysis... the context... and the reporting that allows you to make sense of your world. >> ali velshi on target only on al jazeera america we are live in capitol hill and a break with former secretary of state of hillary clinton taking dozens if not hundreds of questions from the panelist today with david shuster and karen and if there is a worst moment for hillary clinton today what has been a worst moment? >> i think the worst moment were the exchanges early on, perhaps with the charmaine gauty with

sidney blumenthal and i think that maybe not the most substantive part of what went on but there was a real sense that sidney blumenthal was going to be the focus of this and this never get to the substance. >> and sidney blumenthal not being on her staff but someone she listened to versus allegedly not listening to or hearing from or engaging her ambassador chris stevens on the ground there. >> sidney blumenthal had access and chris stevens didn't and her response is he had access to everybody he needed to have access to, he was plugged in 24/7 so this is a red herring. >> and for hillary clinton is lightning up the internet when jim jordan republican from ohio who is the chairman of the freedom caucus said to secretary clinton about what she told her family in an e-mail the night of attacks this was al-qaeda and how a few days later hillary clinton is still saying publicly

this was the film that caused it, something out of their control and he said where did the false narrative start, it started with you madam secretary. it's sort of a bitable, shorthand dog whistle in a sense for republican whose are absolutely convinced that hillary clinton is a liar and on the other side democrats said she was perfect statesman and how can you blame her for attack in ban gaz -- benghazi and have not blamed george w bush. >> and investigation in beirut. >> the embassy bombings in east africa, this is sort of an unprecedented way of dealing with tranl tragedies in the global arena. >> and talking about hillary clinton this is a sound bite from martha of alabama who asked why the state department did not ask what the ambassador needed

upon learning of security concerns in libya. >> august 17th you received a memo on the deteriorating security in libya. the same day you were asked to give $20 million to the libya government to beef up security, your department issued a warning, telling american citizens to get out of libya and not to travel there. i'm wondering why with all of this in front of you, the secretary of state, why did it not occur to you to pick up the phone and call your friend? >> we knew what he was asking for, those requests went to the security professionals. and i would only add with respect to the travel warning we issue travel warnings for many, many places in the world. they are really aimed at informing american business travelers, tourists about conditions they might face if they go to countries.

they are not a criteria for determining whether we keep or end a diplomatic presence. >> well, there we have the secretary's answer to that query. but everyone says they are trying to get to the truth. i'm wondering what is the truth of the hearings? >> depends on the eye of the beholder. one thing that may not help secretary clinton there is that we know from the record today and from everything that has been introduced that she and her staff felt that her libya policy was a defining issue, a legacy defining issue, and could conceivably catapu lt her to a nomination and successful secretary of state. when people then hear a situation is turning and it's deteriorating and getting more dangerous and you hear the secretary of state say i was leaving it to the ambassador to figure out with the security experts of what he needed and may feel like to some people she is essentially passing the buck and it's my policy and left the details to somebody on the ground and that may be how her

government operates you don't have a cabinet level secretary involved with an minute amount of security but when libya was a big priority for secretary clinton the year before it sort of leaves and begs the question that republicans asked why wasn't it still such a priority even down to the level of security the ambassador was looking for. >> a moment in the hearing i noticed when they accounted the number of requests for security in the weeks and months leading up to the attack on september 11th, not a few, not a few dozen but hundreds of requests for increased security that the secretary of state clinton said it's left up to our experts on security and not on her desk, odd that? >> i think that is another point of weakness, is this robust and do you want to say five people as a security detail was robust? i think there was more than that in terms of how she describes

the contractors and the malitia. the question is really they can ask for as much security as you want, how do you get security there and that is what nobody is bringing it up what would it have meant to put in more security, it may be valuable for her to bring up at some point. >> also curious when the committee will call on the cia and defense department officials to explain what their role was in providing or not providing the enhanced, we did have a seeing eye barracks nearby and why wasn't the ambassador in that barracks as opposed to being in that unprotected space? >> if the committee spoke with the cia and department of defense of what the options have been and officials at the state department but the difference being you don't have the head of cia or who was head at the time running for president. hillary clinton is the highest profile woman in american politics, she is predicted to get the democrat nomination, there is no indication she cases right now a series threat to

that despite what bernie sanders supporters may believe they look up and see this is the next democratic nominee and involved in something controversial and put her under the spotlight and find out what happened and can we create this narrative we want voters to believe somehow she is not trustworthy and not honest and doesn't have good judgment. >> that also exonerates the other players and exonerates the cia who she referred to and had been requests for the cia to help out with security and she sort of left that on the table like that and exonerates even the president and exonerates a whole bunch of people in the interagency process who she has chosen not to involve and take it on herself and goes both ways. >> as we wait for the hearing to resume we see members or staffers there members of congress and talking to staff let's go to a few other items in the news today. president obama vetoing a $612 billion defense bill just a few hours ago president saying the

republican backed measure is a budget maneuver to boost spending without increasing domestic spending and forces congress to revise the big or settle a larger existing budget dispute and bring in our guests karen greenburg on a provision of the defense sending bill 2016 defense authorization act that places limits on what the president is able to do with respect to the detainenenees at guantanamo and issue dear to your heart. >> the over all issue of mdaa is has been couched as is there a loophole here for spending that really isn't authorized and are they trying to get around it but the real issue here for many people is the provision that has been in the mdaa since 2011 which is there is a ban on individuals being transferred from guantanamo bay to the united states. if we have a president who has pledged to closing guantanamo and he cannot bring the detainees here how is he going

to close guantanamo, yes a number of them cleared for release and will go home or a third country by the time his presidency is over but what about the ones yet to be tried and the process has practically stalled and what about who they don't want to release but want to detain as indefinite detainees or commonly known as forever detainees and have to come here if he is going to close it and he is finally in guantanamo stepping up and saying no i'm going to block this. >> a lot are still there because there is no where for them to go. >> yes, because there are a lot of diplomatic issues about many of them are from yemen, the united states made the calculation that to return them to yemen is asking for recitivism and asking for trouble and don't do that. >> is there disagreement within the administration and some

agencies while they are cleared for release some say they are cleared but we have not checked them off yet? >> in terms of there may be some rumor behind the scene but process of which they get released periodic review board says can they or not be released there is a number released who have not been released and other one who have been put out by habeous challenges and this is diplomacy ratcheted up and people released in the past six months to a year and interesting enough they are off the indefinite detainee list. >> hold on a second and let's go to a statement from the constitutional center of rikes and represents many there and says today's veto by po president obama because it has strict requirements in transferring clients from guantanamo including those for release and lawmakers attempts

to keep it open for partisan political gain are no excuse for president obama's failure to close the prison, david. >> i was going to say the policy of wanting the president wanting to keep some flexibility to perhaps try and close the prison which is why he is essentially vetoing this bill because the republicans would essentially restrict him from doing that. he may have that policy forced to change, in other words, i'm not so sure randall he is going to be able to sustain a veto on this because there is going to be enormous pressure on democrats in both the senate and house what will be hit with you are voting to stop funding for the military and by the way voting against it because you want to somehow close down guantanamo and protect the people held there, that is a difficult political vote you're asking democrats to take and i'm not sure the president is going to be able to hold enough democrats on this to sustain his position on this. >> on the other hand, just to play devils advocate here guantanamo detainees cost 2

million plus a year for each one in terms of budget. the more you release the higher it goes per detainee. the government has spent the last few months looking at security facilities to see where they can put these individuals. so they are planning to close guantanamo and this is the last hurdle to let it close and obama is drawing a line in the sand. >> and get a vote in congress indirectly because they will have to have a vote to sustain or over ride his veto. >> running into the point where the government is going to have to decide whether to raise the budget ceiling which is another political issue for the obama administration. another news story in the news today a suicide bombing ripping through a shia moss income pakistan killing at least ten people, 12 other wounded in the attack and the blast took place in the village of shalgari in the eastern part of the state and it comes before the shia holiday and pakistan is ramping up security ahead of it

suspending mobile phone service in major cities in a bid to foil remotely detonated explosives and the prime minister met with president obama at the white house today and talks focusing on the u.s. demand that pakistan accept limits on its nuclear arsenal and on the sale of 8-f 16 fighter jets to pakistan, president obama stressed the need for stronger ties between the two nations. >> obviously the united states and pakistan have a longstanding relationship, work and cooperate on a whole host of issues not just on security matters but also on economic and scientific and educational affairs and we are looking forward to using this meeting as an opportunity to further deep enthe relationship between the united states and pakistan. >> they plan to sell fighter jets to pakistan needs congressional approval, efforts underway to stop the violence between israelis and

palestinians but that unrest continues, israeli police officer shot two palestinians who stabbed an israeli at a bus stop near jerusalem one of the p palestinians died, this is hours after they shot and killed a jewish seminary student who they mistook for an attacker. secretary of state john kerry said he was optimistic after a four hour meeting with the prime minister been anyone netanyahu in interminute berlin. environmental protection agency to blame for a wastewater spill in colorado and saying an epa cleanup crew at the gold king mine did not take proper precautions before beginning work in august, millions of gallons of toxic water contaminated rivers in three states, the agency has not commented on the report. matthew stick around, there is another auto story i want to talk to you about, volkswagen

says it doesn't have the software design to skirt emission tests early today and said they needed to investigate and warn even more vehicles might need to be recalled last might they disclosed 11 million of diesel vehicles contained the elicit software that uses emissions controls during tests and the union ratified a new year contract with chrysler and the new deal the company's second offer, past with 77% of the vote and includes the first raises for veteran union workers in ten years. will also help close the wage gap between those with seniority and so called tier two workers, those employees hired by the company since 2007. a nurse quarantined new jersey last year is suing chris christie and administration and the nurse hickok who aided

patients in west africa said her constitutional rights were violated and she was quarantined for three days at a new jersey hospital last october after returning from sierra leone, she is seeking a quarter of a million dollars in damages. [switching captioners] >> back on capitol hill, where secretary of state, hilliary clinton, is taking her seat. and most of them are in place. we'll take a break, and we'll be right back after this.