african national so actually they are between 105. >> and u.n. forces and molian troops both on the scene? >> yes, they are both on the scene and are operating together and they are trying to end up this effect. >> and just tell us a little bit about the hotel, how easy is it to get close to the hotel, what is the security normally like there? >> they take care of the hotel

but there is sometime in military from u.n. and u.n. from the army to support them for security and we don't know exactly why this operation happened. >> thank you very much indeed for that and is a freelance journalist who is outside the hotel radisson and he has been telling us that u.n. forces in molian troops are on the scene with an attack at the hotel radisson blue with a number of hostages inside and don't know how many and we will speak to a journalist and president of the african information club and joins us on the phone from paris, he knows mali well and i don't know how well you are able to follow what has been going on in mali but tell us about this hotel and who might be carrying out this attack?

>> it's very difficult to look and the fact is mali is now i mean two or three and they try to maintain them and effecting them in the northern part of mali but we can guess it's coming from they are not a part of mali already. >> and looking at attacks which happened in the past lois attacks in august and march and rocket attack on a u.n. base and there was a restaurant which was popular with foreigners which was sprayed with bullets by a gunman, that was back in march. clearly foreigners in mali are

the victims of attacks like the these. >> yes, because they need to have major talking about the attack for example and there has been an attack of boko haram nigeria and talking about this attack now so the attack with foreigners i'm sure there would be something in the media in mall mali and out of mali and we have americans there and also french also and they are sure if they get in the hotel and try the operation there would be large coverage. >> and tell us about how far the government has come in regaining control. obviously there has been a lot of unrest and the government did

make a peace deal with one of the groups a couple of years ago how far has mali managed to get back towards stability? >> on the political plan we tried to do everything we could to obtain a deal that could make or could end with the attack during mali but effective on the military plan mali is rebuilding its army. there was no army and we show the attacks that could turn the country into two parts and they didn't have an army and as far as they don't have a solid intelligence working well with sufficient means as a way to fight such attacks and it would

be variable and that is talking about daka last week in a forum that we are talking about peace and security in africa and it's really important to gain, to win the war but also to win the peace and mali is on the stage they need to win peace now not only on the military plan but the political plan and to be sure of that they need sufficient means to win and to train militaries to face issues of what is going on there. >> louis thank you for telling us a bit about mali and the situation there so that hostage situation on going at the luxury radisson blue hotel in bamiko

reports of up to 170 guests and staff are involved in this ongoing hostage taking, that has come from the hotel chain itself again and needs to be verified but the hotel chain saying 170 guests and staff are involved in automatic weapons fire and has been heard from inside that hotel and we are monitoring the story from the nigerian capitol abuja and this is the latest that we know about that situati situation. >> well, that is right shuilue it's active and on going situation and what we are hearing and information we are getting is pointing to perhaps something jihad inspired and security is saying they were

jihad behind the attack and came in the compound in the hotel with diplomatic license plates and if you have been to these sorts of places and been to places like this before security is normally very tight at these hotels given the history you have already explained ed the attacks we saw in march and the attack we saw in august security is normally very tight and something here suggests they are under cover if you like and also know listening to the freelance journalist we had on the line outside of the radisson blue that mali forces and french army and u.n. forces have surrounded the perimeter wall of the hotel and one has to imagine there is some sort of ongoing operation to try and gain access to free these hostages. now you were talking also about the hotel which is an american owned hotel the parent company is an american hotel and they

are saying that 140 people are being held hostage, 30 employees are being held hostage but obviously it's very difficult to verify some of this information because it's impossible to make contact with those who are currently being kept by these two gunman who apparently stormed this hotel and caught people unaware. >> and yvonne it's likely that u.n. peace keeping forces also on the scene were told that mali soldiers and police are there and they have set up a security perimet perimeter. i suppose the issue now we are trying to bring this to an end as soon as possible but also hearing that some hostages have been freed after reciting versus of the koran according to a security source saying some of them held have been let go.

>> well, yes, i mean we know the perimeter wall of the hotel has been shut off by security services involved in the operation to try and diffuse the situation and out and alive as much as possible and in the last hour they put out a tweet basically saying they know there is an on going and shooter operation taking place at the radisson blue hotel, the people should stay inside and await further information and obviously this is a huge concern not just to the united states and any citizens it might have that are in that hotel but of course to anybody who may happen to be there. when you look at the history of this place, when you recall there have been faithful attacks and two in 2015, one in march and one in august one has to imagine there was some tightened

security at the hotel but reports i'm getting suggest these individuals and gunman came into the hotel, stormed the hotel in a vehicle which had diplomatic license plates. now one question that many might be asking is, you were just talking there about the possibility of some of those who were being held captive being released because they are reciting the karan and you can imagine if it is two gunman and there are over 100 hostages obviously there is a possibility it would be difficult to contain all of these people so one has to i guess imagine it's quite possible that some people are being freed but what we understand speaking to people on the ground, speaking to eyewitnesses and what we are hearing from the various security agencies involved in the operation to try and diffuse this situation is that it's ongoing, it's active, it's very unclear and there is slightly understandably a confused

picture about what is going on. >> for the moment thank you for that. let's just bring you up to date with some of the news lines we have been getting here in the newsroom. first of all we should say that the identity of the gunman or the group to which they belong is not known yet but according to the hotel group there are two gunmen who have taken 170 people hostage, that is according to the hotel operator and a senior security source and the gunman stormed the building firing shots shouting god is great in arabic and several chinese tourists were trapped in the building and radisson blue is popular with foreigners in mali and a senior member of the hotel detail are saying two private security guards have been injured and other reports that a

number of hostages have been killed and other hostages have been released after being able to recite versions of the koran and let's go to an anthropologist specializing in northern mali and thank you very much indeed for joining us. it's obviously a picture of some chaos in mali right now but there are several groups, if you operate there and are known to be linked to al-qaeda. tell us a bit about the groups that you know of. >> well, it's difficult to say because it seems like these groups keep forming and dissolving all the time but there are three main groups, they sort of have quite a fame by now and the first one is the moojow and that is a movement that is known to have the closest links of al-qaeda.

then there is ansaradeen and that is a group that formed in the north of mali and then of course there is al-qaeda, there is an umbrella organization with lots of different branches that keep from forming new groups with shifting alliances and dissolving groups and reforming new ones. i do not think that what is happening in mali at the moment is connected to any of this group. i think it is worth thinking that there are several organizations in neighboring countries in the south of mali sinagal being the most prominent one where there are obvious

contacts between different groups and because the borders are so porus it's difficult to monitor the movements but what is happening in bamiko have nothing to do with groups that formed way back, in the beginning of the year 2000 in the north of mali and it seems to be a rather different sort of organization that has decided to target bamiko and the fact that they are making a statement in the south of the country i think has to be completely disconnected with the political situation in the north of mali that has to do with the rebellion and the wish to have some autonomy or independence of the other things. the connotation of this in my view and it's only speculation because i have noellements to

base it on could easily be linked to organizations that are known to be in the south of mali but always kept in the shadows because of what is created of terrorism in mali and always associated in the north and know historically islam did not own it from the tip to the rest of the country but it actually had a very strong basis in sinagal as well and we ought to shift our attention what we know already about terrorism in mali and start asking questions why for example the islamic council in bamiko has recently been gaining much greater weight politically than the new government that seems to be having difficulties in associating its own authority

throughout the country. >> why is it that the government is finding it difficult for example get together a tougher, stronger army because we were talking about earlier with another analyst about the security failings of the government and the fact it has a weak army and has no intelligence service to speak of and very little resources which is one of the things which allows these attacks to take place. >> yes, i think it is a very good question. i'm not an expect in this particular area but i think that some of the news i received anyway for example about the retraining of some elements of the mali army by the american and british forces not to mention the presence of the french army in mali and the training of the security forces in mali as well by french and european organizations and poses a very big question of why is it

they are not managing in spite of the enormous investments that have been made in the country to gain greater strength and therefore be in a position to secure the whole country. in the north we know that in spite of all the agreements and unfortunately security is still a very big issue and as far as i know there are on goigoing bala going on which means that security has not yet been reached at levels that are satisfactory enough to have all the wreckages returning from other countries from where they are and this again poses a question how is it that since

2004 when the initiative to call terrorism was launched by the u.s. and nato countries and after the massive intervention of france in the north of the country the problem is still there. what is it that both malian and international intelligence services and tracking the problem in ways that can secure the lives of all malian citizens in the north as well as the south of the country and it's impossible to find answers in that also for security reasons and we can't really have access to some information but if we sort of have to draw conclusions about the history of antiterrorism forces in the country since 2004 we are left with a conclusion that in spite

of all the massive investments and operations, industry operations, 11 years after the problem is still there and, in fact, the number of terrorist groups has multiplied to unprecedented numbers. >> thank you so much indeed for that, talking to us about the various influences on mali and potentially in neighboring countries as well, thank you. let's go to abdul my colleague who has been covering mali and covering arab media and what are the lines you are getting? >> what we are hearing and not all things are confirmed things but have the president of mali has come back from the chad capitol where he was attending a g 5 meeting and his return to the capital toll to monitor the situation closely. there is also -- there are

reports of nationals from china, france, nigeria and algeria and probably belgium as well who are in the hotel but the hotel itself has released an official statement it has 170 people inside, 140 guests and 30 employees. the shooting has been happening from the 7th floor and this is what we are hearing so far and the number of militants inside is between 2-10. it's difficult actually to confirm. >> there is confusion between that, some security and the hotel saying too and other people saying ten. >> the neighborhood itself where the hotel is located is a very important one. back in 2013 when it was there it was heavily guarded because we have ministries and we have diplomates, we have houses for officials as well that are in

there. there are reports that the leader, the former leader of the movement was at the rally and who is from the city of kadal and comes from a high profile family in the city and he formed the movement back in the 1990s to call for the liberation of what the tribe considers as the historical land but he later formed his own group in the beginning of the -- before the french invasion which is there and it's really very difficult at this moment to confirm whether he is the person or not but witnesses back from the scene are saying that his group is there. there are also reports of two guards of the hotel who have been killed so far and two

ladies escorted out by personnels. >> hearing two female hostages. >> have been released. >> and my information is two private security guards have been injured but they may well have been killed. >> yes, it's because so far they have not actually been like an intervention, it's just the french army in addition to the u.n. soldiers alongside with the malian forces surrounding the hotel it's believed it has been going for a long time and it's just now it has turned into a hostage situation but i think more developments will come. >> this was apparently started at 0700 gmt which is what 3 1/2 hours ago and also getting information that roads have been blocked off, as abdulla french

and other troops surrounded the hotel and all the shooting is taking place on the seventh floor. i guess it is significant that the hostages were some hostages said to be released after they quoted versions from the koran. >> this is something i cannot confirm but i think the militants inside there of what group they come from just trying to make this more for a specific target and they are not targeting civilians in general it's probably non-muslims and just like we said earlier in the interview before this it might be actually targeted against the french presence in mali because there are reports of course which are not confirmed so far that they are members of the french army among the hostage,

the ones that are operating inside mali so it's actually i mean hard to tell if they have that kind of target so far. >> okay, all right, so just to bring you up to date with what is happening at the moment we are getting reports that up to ten gunmen, between two and ten gunmen stormed the radisson blue hotel and shouting god is great and they are firing on the guards and have taken hostages and told by the hotel operator 140 guests and 30 employees have been taken hostage. there has been gunfire heard on the seventh floor and those hostages including people from several different national naturaltys and chinese and french and american embassys come out and asked people to take shelter if they are in bomiko so that is what we know at the moment and we will speak

to a freelance journalist who is outside the had son blue in there and tell us about some reports that some hostages have been released. >> yes, some have been released and just come and police take th them. >> have you got any information about anybody any fatalities when the gunman entered the hotel? >> so exactly when they come out of the hotel they were just trying so it was very difficult from them but there was some woman who was here, she is from ivory coast and the neighboring country and she told us the situation is very bad because she was trying to one day come

to effect them so she go to hide in the kitchen and now she is outside by and she is outside and the security forces take her out of the area. >> and can you tell us what the very security forces and military, what are they actually doin doing? >> they are actually trying to get outside because the hostages in the hotel are about 100 person so we don't know exactly if they are all out of the ho l hotel. >> thank you very much indeed for that, freelance journalist

who is outside the radisson blue hotel in bamiko. let's take a closer look at where that hotel is. it's a luxury hotel. it's located in the capitol bamiko and pretty imposing hotel and takes up a whole block in the western district of the capitol. and told the roads around it have been sealed off and mali and u.n. peace keepers and french troops are in that area and filled it off and have not stormed the building yet but there are between two and ten gunmen who are on the seventh floor. let's just quickly go to our correspondent here in the studio with me so just what i want to put this into is some context because this is not the first

attack that has happened on a target like this and there have been other very high profile attacks on u.n. bases and hotels and on restaurants. >> yes, there was an attack back in august on a hotel that was used by the u.n. forces in the city which is not very far from bamiko and also been either rocket attacks or attacks using mines on the french forces back earlier this year in the north of the country so i think i mean i would actually like to mention that back in 2013 we were in that hotel. we went to the kind of check the view and there was no sensz -- sense of security and asking you how you are doing around the pla place. >> a lot of the big hotels used

by foreigners and diplomates and officials have several stages of security, concrete blocks and trying to stop suicide vehicles driving in, you didn't see any of that kind of thing? >> even in other hotels and big hotels in the capitol, we have been to three of them at that time and none of them actually even has simple security machines to check people's luggage or it could be as simple as just checking ids but the fact that even after the french intervention things may not have changed mostly from the pictures that are posted on the social media now doesn't look like there is much of security that would actually stop anyone from doing that. >> that is astonishing given the history and heard from a previous guest talking about the weakness of the mali army and this is one of the problems of the government, the government is in a very fragile state because it doesn't have a strong army, that clearly contributes

to the security problems in mali. >> it's true and you see back in that time when the intervention started when we went on the streets of bamiko and asked people what they thought of the northern part they have not sensed the northern part of the country doesn't really have this resemblance with the southern part of it. if we look back in history before the independence from france in the 1960s there wasn't actually a one country that we could call as mali at this time and back in the north think of themselves as a separate nation, a separate country. i think this is one thing that the militants you know al-qaeda or sorry even boko haram or even i.s.i.l. at this moment seizing because this is people that don't think that they have been much interest or much development of their own part of the country so it's very easy for those people back there in

the north you know because if you even take a closer look at how the set is conducted which are the three main citizens in the north and look in basics like how the roads or the buildings look compared to the capitol we could say predated, it's not as developed as those areas even the signal may not walk as easily as there so there is a sense the southern part of the country doesn't really, you know, feel for the ones in the north which i say. >> there is a peace process you know however flawed it is, there is a peace process that is being followed, supported by the french and the u.n. so what is it these groups want to get out of these attacks, what do they feel is missing, do they feel they are not included in the peace process and feel it's not giving them what they want? >> from day one when the whole instability started back in 2012

when the movement of the words in january 2012 called for them to seize from you know from mali itself, if the government has dealt with the issue i mean because it's not just the one day issue that came suddenly it has been happening since the independence and they have been calling for better living conditions and such things but i think it's -- those groups that operate on behalf of al-qaeda and i.s.i.l. are trying to destabilize the whole thing and on the ground they actually have more man power and more fire power than the groups that are the movement of the liberation and there was another branch of it calling themselves islamic movement and these groups are basically you know calling for autonomous rule or at least more power to the regions so i think these groups, the ones that are

al-qaeda or the other ones are just trying to seize the opportunity and you know hold to the peace process as much as they can because it will be in their own favor. >> thank you very much indeed for that, abdulla and so let's bring you up to date with some of the things that we know that have happened and this is an attack that began at 7:00 a.m. that is 700 gmt between two and ten gunmen stormed the building of the hotel radisson blue, a luxury hotel in the city center just west of the city center. this is a hotel which stands near government ministries, near diplomatic offices in bamiko. apparently very little security there to begin with, the gunman stormed the building and were firing shots and shouting god is great in arabic and saying

several chinese tourist are among those trapped inside and also aware there are french nationals also trapped inside, 170 hostages, that is 140 customers presumably tourists, visitors, officials and 30 employees. we are also hearing word that two hostages, two female hostages were allowed out of the building by the hostage takers apparently after reciting verse from the koran and also hearing that at least two people are dead, all of this has to be verified as you can imagine, a lot of information coming out to us from the scene. yvonne has been monitoring the story from us from the nigeria capitol abuja and quite a chaotic picture but that hostage situation is still on going. >> that is right and just to

reiterate what we are getting from people on the ground that the hotel is still arounded by the security services, special forces from mali the french army involved and u.n. forces, there is a u.n. peace keeping mission there and what we understand is they are trying to diffuse the situation and the question is how difficult will it be. it's a very large hotel with 190 rooms and honor owner of the hotel and the parent is american say 140 people have been taken hostage and 30 employees and difficult to verify without speaking to these people who have come under attack. there were reports earlier that at least two people have been killed and very difficult to verify at this stage and also know this is according to

security sources that these attackers arrived in their vehicle and to give you a sense of what the security would be like in a place like this security would be heightened because of the history of attacks we have seen in this place, in this part of the world and attack in which ex patriot were killed and a restaurant sprayed with bullets and another mali town in august at least five u.n. workers were killed when gunmen attacked so security would have been fairly tight and now there is some discrepancy about the number of gunmen involved in this attack and we understand speaking to security sources there are at least ten gunmen involved in this but the parent company of the hotel are saying that it's two men so again unclear and this would obviously make it incredibly

difficult and incredibly challenging for the security on the ground to try to diffuse the situation so plan whatever it is they need to do to put an end on the on going siege at the radisson blue hotel. now we also now that apparently again this is according to security sources that some of the hostages may indeed be free, apparently what we are told is they were told to recite some versus of the koran and those who were able to they were let go of and this story is gaining huge momentum on social media and the concern for nigerian viewers, those concerned about nigeria at least reports that africa's man was surfacing that he was involved in this siege in the hotel. in the last few minutes we managed to speak directly to him who is not involved in these

attacks and that will calm these people here to some extent but obviously many, many people involved in this, not clear where it is heading and people are hoping and praying the situation is diffused as much as possible and people are set free and the attackers are apprehended as soon as possible. >> we are also getting word from turkish airlines apparently turkish airlines is saying that six of its personnel are trapped in that hotel as you have been explaining and obviously it's very popular with foreign visitors but there will be a lot of countries right now urgently monitoring this situation and trying to give reassurances that their nationals are okay. >> well, that is right and i stayed in the radisson blue hotel in sinagal and it's the

go-to hotel for an ex patriot and the major arlines keep their staff there and when you think of the number of people may be held hostage by these attackers it will involve many nations publically and several nations to say the very least. now obviously it's not clear right now where people may have been coming from but as i said it's a hotel freaked by ex patriots and diplomates, any number of nationalitys can be involved and the u.s. embassy was quick to tweet out citizens living in bamiko telling them of an on going active shooter operation taking place at the hotel and warning citizens not to go out and one has to imagine, one has to expect that other foreign embassys will be taking the same kind of action and checking on their citizens, trying to make sure that everybody is okay. of course it's inevitable that nationals mali nationals are also involved and perhaps those

people who may have been working at the hotel and giving the services and you know enjoying their careers at this hotel so it's of a huge worry and concern and as you know shului it's still active and on going. >> reporting live from abuja there so several different nationalitys caught up in that hostage situation, around ten chinese people staying in the hotel and we know the french have personnel there and now turkish airlines saying six of their turkish airline personnel inside that hotel, that situation still ongoing. abdullah is in the studio for us and you have been hearing some updated lines and it's quite a difficult situation to know how mali forces and indeed the u.n. and french troops are going to

bring under control if there is a massive hostage situation on going on the seventh floor with 170 hostages. >> the latest we are hearing is three hostages have been killed already. we are not sure if the two guards mentioned earlier are among those. we also know that the ambassador is at the scene because what you just mentioned because of the presence of turkish airline crew members inside the hotel and there is actually a turkish school just behind the hotel as well. but talking about the hotel itself i mean because i-been inside the hotel and it's actually very hard for the forces to operate because it's not -- it's an open area hotel, you know, where mostly like a triangle shape and you have the corridors where a gunman could be pointed and just should be forced easily. we do not know if there have

been any kind of bombs or ieds planted inside and might actually if there is a situation of confrontation between the gunman and the militants sorry and the french and the soldiers on scene it might actually lead to more victims but so far it is confusing to say what this might end to because they have not been any demands and have not been any situation. >> that is the worrying thing, isn't it? >> and probably it could take more hours to end this because it's a popular area. >> it's a congested area,s what is the surrounding area that is there, how much troops do they have to be concerned about troops nearby? >> it's a residential area and of course most of the residents are officials and diplomates but nonetheless it's just like all the african capitol you have

ordinary people on the streets, you have accommodation at the area. the roads leading to that area are actually not wide enough for the movement of probably belonging to the soldiers on the scene but i think it will that possibility of maybe ending their situation and let's hope that happens and either it's the orders or the hostage would probably happen because no one actually knows for sure where they are located, what is going to happen next. >> thank you for that, please continue monitoring all the lines coming in and keep viewers updated if there are any changes in the situation but at the moment thank you very much for that. we are going to of course bring you any information that happens

on that ongoing siege situation, 170 hostages inside. we are now getting the latest news that three hostages have been killed, that is according to the mali government who said that the death toll so far is three hostages killed and between two and ten gunmen still keeping hostages, that hostage situation still ongoing and we will keep you up to date with any changes in that situation. let us get some other news while we can, a former israeli spy has reportedly been released from a u.s. jail after spending 30 years behind jail and given a life sentence in 1987 for selling american intelligence to israel and expected to settle in new york state while he completes the next five years on parole and we are live from west

jerusalem to tell us more about this release. >> release israeli officials in the past three decades worked hard in getting it and never really managed to convince washington to release jonathan polar and his name came on the table several arounds during several rounds of negotiations between israelis and palestinians and that said reaction to his release has been quite low key and not a statement issued by the prime minister's office benjamin netanyahu saying the people of israel do welcome his release and saying in his word it was a day he has dreamt of and worked very hard on. however you are not going to see much more than that because he still has five years of parole in the u.s. and the free polar campaign here saying there is

nothing much to celebrate at the moment and not holding any kind of rallies or is an israeli official going to go to the u.s. to meet with jonathan polar just to make sure that his five years of parole could be reviewed in about two years and that could be slashed so they don't want to do anything that could anger washington. now jonathan polar became an israeli citizen during isimprisonment and married his second wife esther and she is living here in israel and according to the local media she was told by the prime minister last night of the release. >> and hada what has this meant for israel and the u.s.? >> well, it has been a thorny point between the two countries. as i said earlier the various administrations here in israel have tried more than once to get

his release, prime minister benjamin netanyahu actually said that in his statement and it never really has worked and always has been a difficult issue and some people say i have been reading earlier in the local media here that actually some israeli leaders in the past have tried to put on the table during negotiations peace negotiations with the palestinians the issue of jonathan polar to try to gain something out of it during the negotiations but that didn't really happen. that might explain why the reaction is so far here in israel quite low key. >> thank you very much indeed for that. reporting from west jerusalem there. okay let's go back to our main story and continuing coverage of that hostage situation in mali. let's tell you what we know about that, taking place at the radisson blue hotel in the

capitol bamiko and our security forces are said to have killed three people and managed to rescue around a dozen hostages and initially 140 guests and 30 staff members were being held, 117 total and at least two gunmen involved in the current situation and know there are chinese, french, turks and nigerians being held hostage. let's take a closer look at where the radisson blue is located in the mali capitol bamiko and the hotel takes up a whole block in the western district of the capitol and close to ministries and diplomatic offices and we have a freelance journalist outside the hotel in bamiko and bring us up to date with what the latest is on that situation. >> i don't think she can hear

us. well let's go to yvonne who is in abuja and we are hearing that three people have been killed so far in that situation, what are you hearing? >> well, that is right, now earlier shiulie there were reports of some fatalities an hour or so ago and we were hearing that two people have been killed, it now appears that the death toll may have risen but all of this incredibly difficult to verify for reasons that everyone will understand, it's an on going, active security situation at the hotel. we know that the hotel is surrounded by u.n. forces that are in a peace keeping mission in mali and know the french army are involved because there are a presence of french soldiers in bamiko and special forces from the many mali security sector.

now, if there are deaths obviously that would be a huge concern and a huge worry and because it's an escalating situation so it seems because we know and this is according to the parent company of the hotel this is what they are saying that at least 140 people are being held hostage and 30 employees, naturally people will start to worry about that number rising from three. >> we are also hearing yvonne that 20 hostages have been freed from the hotel, again, hard to verify but that is coming from the mali army commander and clearly there is a joint security presence there between the mali army, the u.n. and french troops. that is right and apparently these hostages, this is what we are being told again by security sources apparently they were freed when they were forced to, asked to recite some versus of

the koran and let go again not clear if they are women or childr children, who is involved and nationalitys and information obviously coming out at the scene of what is going on but obviously it will be a relief to an extent obviously that some people are being able to get out of the situation and one has to imagine they will obviously work with the security services on the ground who are surrounded the hotel and perhaps give information and give information about the attackers and what they look like and what they are saying and based on security sources who have been talking to us that most of this activity is taking place on the seventh floor of the hotel and not clear how large this hotel is but we are talking about nearly 200 rooms, 190 to be precise and what is owners of the hotel say

so the question is how were they moving around the hotel, where are the hostages and obviously the security and will they have to get some sort of plan in place and one has to imagine they can plan some sort of activity where they would go in and try to diffuse the situation as fast as possible before it gets out of hand. >> thank you for that yvonne there and the latest situation appears to be that those gunmen have control of the seventh floor on the radisson hotel in the mali capitol according to security sources. they moved floor by floor until they got to the seventh floor but we don't know where they are holding the hostages, what kind of state those hostages are in and outside the hotel we have french animally troops who

sealed off roads in the area and securing the perimeter of that building but as yet no demands from the group or even an identification of who they are. let's try and go back to the journalist and keeping us up to date on the situation and can you hear me now? hello, trying to get an update on this situation and what is the latest you are seeing there and going with the operation they are going and cannot say exactly they are all outside. >> how many hostages are you talking about? are you saying there is a stream of hostages coming out of the hotel? >> many hostages about 100.

>> so that would seem to be the bulk of the hostages. >> what? >> that would seem to be most of the hostages because we are told there are around 170 hostages, you are seeing a large number of them coming out of the hotel. >> they are not coming out a lot but they are coming out in a few groups but the information i got there is a lot that is inside the hotel and someone was telling me more than four perso persons. >> and are all the troops inside the hotel are they actually

confronting the gunmen or not? >> just right now i came out to see this burning out and may be some i can see there are maybe 14 coming out of the hotel. >> and are troops inside the hotel? is there any kind of contron front -- confrontation? >> what. >> are they still outside the hotel or have they gone inside the hotel? >> inside the hotel. they are inside the hotel. >> so are you hearing gunfire? what can you hear? i can hear gunshots and sometimes gunshots but not a

gunshot every time and. >> and do you have any idea how many gunmen there are inside the hote hotel? >> i can't tell you exactly how many but maybe ten. someone was telling me now ten or between 10-15. >> thank you very much indeed for that reporting live from outside the radisson blue hotel, he is telling us that he hears sporadic gunfire and he has been told at least ten gunmen inside the hotel but at the same time he has seen groups of three or four hostages coming out of the hotel and don't know if they have been freed or released from the hostages or hiding and managed to get themselves out and quite a chaotic scene down

there at the moment. and speak to an anthropologist specializes in northern mali and is in northern italy and alexander we were speaking before and you are telling us about the groups active in mali and saying actually there might be a lot more influence from groups in neighboring countries. >> yes, absolutely if you look at the situation of difrpt terrorist groups throughout the sahara from the atlantic coast to the red sea you can actually see there are groups with different ethnic denominations and different group affiliations. this i think obviously will tell us that we cannot just think in terms of local organizations, national organizations but of a trans regional organization

whereby different actions can be coordinated according to a global plan. i think this is an interesting point to reflect upon because then we can see how the formation of the groups may differ we do see patterns and similarities may be occurring and we have boko haram and in chad we have another and in mail and we can see how different groups are forming and what we can see is there has been sort of a regional counter terrorism plan in place from 2004 is how this pattern sort of occur with

regularity and similarities and the cruelty of the attacks in nigeria and the numbers of victims in nigeria is perhaps the highest throughout the whole region. it is the first i think operation of this sort in mali and in bamiko in particular that involved such a large number of people but i think this also tells us perhaps we have to start shifting our perspective and analysis from the idea all this is happening from the north of the country and that the organization is actually a regional organization with headquarters perhaps even outside of africa and i think this would help us try to understand that the carried out

in order to map these different attacks and cannot be just focusing on the north of mali but the whole region and i think that it's sort of network like structure is very important to try and connect similar actions in different countries going on at the same time. if we can do that then perhaps we can just start to get a glimpse, a very small glimpse of the scale of the phenomenon and the resources that need to be mobilized and the concepts that need to be mobilized in order to understand how the problem can be tackled. what seems to be quite obvious way back in