scene, at the facility. joining us in studio as we watch this is darren porcher a retired new york police department officer. darren, good to have you back with us. >> glad to be here. >> as always glad to see you. first of all the scene we are seeing playing on you. the three suspects that allegedly killed 14 people today. and how do you describe what is described as an active scene a few miles away? >> it is an interesting scene, and one of the things that i have yet to see is a robot deployed in this particular instance >> david: speaking from a tactical perspective, i'm going to be observant of the crossfire and make sure that nobody can get hit in the crossfire. and when i look at the configuration, it's unique,

something that i'm not used to seeing >> david: i think that the deployment of a robot is important in this instance because we want to look at if there's an explosive ordinance on scene. and you may have heard that there were packages on the scene in t the building, but we don't know what these individuals have >> david: in addition to that, if we're looking at this from a television perspective, however, the police officers on scene have a direct line of sight in terms of what's in this vehicle >> david: how many suspects do we have in this vehicle? what's in the placement of the vehicle? can you see armaments? these are things that the command should be process on the scene. >> and the incident commander being the commander responsible for the overall investigation from earlier today? >> well, it wouldn't be the incident commander responsible for the oval at the scene, because he's probably back at where the shooting occurred >> david: but how have, we think in terms of

[ audio difficulties ] the incident commander on the scene, and that's given the tactical directives to the police officers on the scene, such as these armored vehicles. >> they may not have even it tied or created a connection between this incident that we're viewing here and what transpired earlier in the day. >> good point. >> what we have is a dark colored suv and no more >> david: and what i find interesting about this >> david: the sergeant, the young lady mentioned that this was a couple of miles from the facility and that sounds strange unto itself >> david: because obviously, the exercise is to give yourself as much distance between the location where you perpetrated the crime and where you want to be eventually >> david: and i can't imagine that they drove 2 and a half miles in three hours. >> is it possible, if there were three, and again, up to three suspects, and witnesses claim that they saw more than one, but suppose they have

three, is it possible that they split up, and one takes the black suv and the others take the other method to get out of the area? >> this is the only vehicle that we have identified as being potentially at the assault >> david and it didn't identify it when they departed the scene >> david: you could have thought that they would have gone in different deckses, the police are saying that this was a "suspect, who they had exchanged gunfire with, and this particular suv from miles away >> david: but if you are just joining us in the last ten minutes or so, the police

helicopters got this from the shooting where 14 people were shot to it death. and the police have been looking all day for three suspects, and in just the last 10 minutes or so, the police moved in, and they were much farther away, essentially protected by their vehicles with weapons train >trained, and they failed to assume that what's in the suv is not the threat that they would have feared, or they would not have been so close to it one thing that you would say is that the suspect in the you've would have changed gunfire with the police, whether they're involved with the clinic or not, we still have a very dangerous individual at the scene >> david: so the police must

deploy the active protocols >> david: they have been in the tunnel, and could they be at the area of the shooting? that's possible, and we have a lot of unanswered questions in connection with this > i think that it will help us a little bit, and this was facility that where individuals were at that location for their department of health, so to speak, and why was this particular place targeted? we have a lot of unanswered questions and it's crucial that if they could get somebody

alive, get a live person. and if we get a live person, we are able to extract that >that, and even if they don't talk >> david: they may lend themself to the crime scene at the clinic, they are not moving on this vehicle quite as rapidly as i thought they may have, because they're certainly in proximity, that if there was a device there, i hate to break it to them, but the vehicles in at the themselves may not provide sufficient shelter, and depending on the amount of explosives in the back, the blast radius might be substantial:. >> for all of our viewers, it looks like a police standoff in san bernardino, the police

confirmed that they exchanged gunfire with a mass shooting suspect, four hours ago, it claimed the lives of 14 people and injured 17, they have raised that number. the police have been out on the lookout for three suspects, after they fled the scenes, but there were eyewitnesses that believe that the suspect fled in a black suv, so for the last time three hours, the police in san bernardino, california, have been on the lookout for a black suv, a yukon, and for the first time a police spokesman in san bernardino confirmed that a suspect from a shooting earlier in the day had been taken down by the police, and this was an exchange of going fire from the facility, and this was ten minutes ago, and

the police have moved closer to the suv and shielding themselves with the police cars, and it would appear if the police are trying to determine whether there's a threat inside of the suv, and whether there are any iuds or explosive devices, and whether somebody may be alive inside of the suv, and have his hand on a weapon, and in which case, they may want to talk to him. >> just speculating had slightly, just based on the amount of gunfire, i think that it's highly unlikely that the individual sustained himself through the assault by the police. >> you don't think that he could have survived? >> i'm looking at the amount of bullet holes through the shield and the glass, and it's unlikely that he would have survived, it, and i'm wondering

if they didn't extract him or bring in a device, but you said earlier that they came out and said that they neutralized one of the individuals who participated in the shooting at the center, and i think that that might be premature also, that might be, case, but i don't seem to glean that these two incidents have a lot of information, they're in the process of managing the incident and in the other place managing the investigation. >> and we did see the man at the top of the turrest put his arm down, and it seems that they're in much more of a relaxed posture than a few minutes ago. >> if you look at the possible tour of the officers on scene, it's not aggressive, and it seems more the way we hear information, but it's

interesting, when are they going to move in? i can imagine when i handled these incidents, it's hard to know who is in the direction of this police operation. >> now it looks like the eod, explosive ordinance division, has deemployed what appears to be a robot to attempt to remove either the vehicle or do a sweep for devices. >> just to clarify for the viewers, listening to the voices of darren porcher, form nypd officer, and luke columbo, who was a detective with the nasa police department right outside of new york, and we have been watching this it scene play out for the last 20, 25 minutes, and we want to quickly go to aljazeera's jennifer leflondon who is in san bernardino, and may have more

information on the crime scene and the people shot today, but the scene that we were watching live now from a picture on an aerial helicopter where the police have an aerial device and are thinking about approaching this suv, clearing there was gunshot exchange, and the windows have been shot out and the tires shot out, jennifer, anything that you're hearing about the live scene unfolding right now? >> reporter: well, it david, i'm at the press staging better the san bernardino police did hold a press conference, and they gave chase to a dark suv, and they can not confirm that this was the suv reported fleeing the shooting today, and they say that they don't know, but the officers when they caught up with this it dark colored suv, this all happening in the last ten or 15 minutes,

they did exchange gunfire, one suspect is down, and those are the words coming from the san bernardino police that, the suspect is down, they did not say if this suspect is linked to the earlier shooting, just stressing, david that this is a very fluid situation, and they don't have all of information at this time. >> jennifer, the police said in one of the news conferences two hours ago that the death toll is 14, and the injured were 14, and they raised it to 17 >> david: any more information that kim out of this last press conference that provided newing information about the shooting earlier today in this conference center at the social services administration building? any new details that they provided to the media in the last 45 minutes? >> reporter: most of the details that you just reported that came from the latest press

conference, the number of injured that went from 14 to 17, and they asked what are the injuries? they are seeing injuries from falls, from people trying to escape, to people that have been shot, and they don't know if the number of casualties will go up >up, and we know that the wounded have been taken to local hospitals, in terms of the shooting itself, that has been under lockdown, and they have been all morning after the shooting happened, moving the media and everybody away from the area as they try to increase the permitter, we know that they're still going through the building looking for evidence and clues trying to clear the building, and we know that courts and office buildings are in lockdown and they did law enforcement to local schools nearby. >> all right, jennifer london,

and jennifer, we're attempting to monitor the situation a few miles away from where jennifer is reporting from, and curious about the suv, there were shots fired from the suv, the suspect was brought down, according to the police, but as jennifer london is reporting, it's not entire sure that the suspect was related to the shootings four years ago at the inlapped regional center, which houses a social services facility, on the right of your screen, you're looking at nearby pictures from earlier today from the social services building, and of course the police swarmed there earlier today, and on the left is the live picture that the exchanged gunfire with in the last half hour, today, as many as 3

gunmen opened fire at the inland regional center >> david: and a man, kevin ortiz, had been shot twice in the leg and once in the shoulder during the attack, and amidst the chaos, the 24-year-old had managed to call his wife, who he just married two weeks ago and his father to tell them that he was alive and loved them, kevin ortiz, one of those 17 who was injured in today's attack, 14 people lost their lives:we're joined in the studio by darren porcher, nypd, and what are we looking at? >> the officers on the scene, they have a more direct line of sight than we, and we're catching an aerial view, i

would say roughly 8 feet in max, and they can see into the vehicle more than we can they're looking at extracting an individual, and i don't necessarily agree with that >> david: i thought that it was explosives and that's what i thought it was. >> so by extraction, trying goat him out of vehicle, and he may be, the person that's in the vehicle, and we assume that this person has been killed, presumably, based on the number of shots if that's the assumption that you want to make, and let's just assume that this person is killed. and they're it still worried about what may be on this person's body that could damage to the police as they try to move him. >> he could be strapped with a vest and have explosives, but at this point, it kind of brings resolution to this incident, and that's what the

presence of the vehicle recommends, and the fact that they have as many officers as they approach, though they're backtracking at this point >> david: time is on their side, there's no clock running, and they have to manage this as quickly as possible >> david:. >> since this is on live television, i'm sure that we have those who were pretty when this happened, and is there vehicle part of the attack? >> we have people who may have seen a black suv. >> absolutely > right now, it looks like the extraction is about to take place.

>> we're hearing the helicopter pilot describe how. >> they're getting the section into custody, they don't know if he is alive or not, and they think that he's shot, and this tactical vehicle called a rook is going up to the door, and you can see several swat members, this is a unique piece of equipment. >> that's from kabc >> david: we're an abc affiliate and we get the feeds from them, and this is the pilot describing the type of effort to pull somebody out of the back seat is what they're describing, and we now see these, and they look like military style law enforcement, they're certainly wearing -- >> you have it going in in the

apartment, and they're approaching in the same fashion as if they were doing an entry into an apartment >> david: so when you see an 8-man team going in, and they use another piece of equipment to go in. the same way that you get a fish. >> they just used another piece of equipment. and they're going to use it to extract him from the vehicle. >> that's used as a shepherd's crook, and they commonly use those. >> even if the person is dead, it's a hook which essentially they pull on, and they pull the body out. >> it's a simply movement.

and once they pull it out, they it decide if it's anything threatening, because they have a better look at it than if it's punched over or on the back seat. >> now, i want to see possibly 2 feet in max away from it, and they have a clear line of sight to the individual, any possible weapons. >> we're starting to see some of the tactical unit back away from the vehicle, and obviously, that's a ford expedition, it's a vehicle that's designed to sustain blasts, and that's what they're basically covering from behind. and the rest of it is the extraction process. >> the other thing that we should say, the viewers may be pulling away, and we believe that the local helicopter crew is being asked, and if so,

voluntarily, to show a closeup extraction of the body or whatever may come out of the suv, and that's why the shot has gone wide. and why we have now switched over from tape from earlier today, several hours ago from the shooting first happened at the inland regional center. where 14 people were shot to death and 17 others injured. and the police say that the suspects, as many as three suspects, and now we're back to a live picture again of them pulling somebody or something -- >> you know what i find interesting also? i have not seen any fire apparatus, or what appears to be a hazmat team present on the scene. i would have suspected that they would introduce both of these support components into this environment. >> it looks like a sheet or part of the seat that just got ripped out and pulled onto the

sidewalk. again, and we're with columbo, a retired detective, and darren porcher, a former nypd detective and investigator and given the reports from earlier today, as many as three suspects, and if there's only one suspect here, it's a scene that they have to be very delicate and careful w. because they need whatever they're going to pull out of this it suv, as part of their manhunt, which is still continuing. >> by the virtue of the fact that they have recover the him, it's going to lead them to the other two people. it's interesting the way that the way investigation keeps place. we prefer to keep this guy alive and intact if possible, to glean information, but just by having him period and identifying him, we're going to be able to identify his associates. >> and by now, presumably, the police know the license plate

on the suv, and they may have been able to use high-tech cameras to see if there was a serial number within the dark, so there's a lot of information without actually going into the suv that they would already probably be acting upon now. >> not to interrupt you, sir, but i'm curious to know if they have utilized thermal imaging in examining the car as well. it picks up what they call heat signature, and as we all know, your bold has a heat signature. >> and that's how they were able to determine that one the boston marathon bombers was alive but injured inside of the boat. >> that's right, and i wonder if they used that to find out how many occupants in the vehicle, and the position in the vehicle, and so on. though a weapon is not going to give you a heat signature, but the bodies contained there in would. >> now, there are a lot of people watching this, and never mind the viewers affected in

southern california, but law enforcement as they reported earlier, they have an intelligence center in southern california where the information is still being organized and collected from the original scene, and whatever information is able to glean here, i would imagine that's an incredibly active office right now, given these reports, that there were as many as three people. and the indication that there's only one person in this suv. >> absolutely. one of the key things, if we have a person, dead or alive, we want to know who was the last person that they called? whenever anyone speaks on a cellphone, your cellphone bounces off of a tower, and that will tell us where these people came from initially. in addition to that, we to the look at the media fingerprint. did they list any disheartening comments in connection with the

clinic that they visited earlier, provided these are the individuals? and again, these are key components in trying to develop the identity of who these individuals are. keep in mind, we have two people out there, and one person here. >> we think, we don't know who is in the vehicle just yet. but the other important thing is to identify what type of support system went in to this, and we want to identify any type of dialogue they may have had, who they may have had it with, but what we really want to know, how broad a conspiracy was this. >> and why were they targeting a social services facility, not a school, not law enforcement. >> remember, i don't think that it was the facility so to speak, i believe there was a conference for the department of health, because this was a rented location for that particular conference, and i believe that there was a job fair happening at the time that this occurred.

so i think that it's safe to say that the health department was the target here, but keep in mind, this is all newly developing information as we move into it. >> the thing to be mindful of here, this was not a hit. what transpired in chicago a few days ago, with a nine-year-old little boy, that was a him. but this was not a hit, it was a high body count. they were not going to single out anybody. and if they were going to do that, based with the weapons that they were armed with, set up at this location and pick out a person of interest to them. >> we're going to pick up more on that, but this is a live picture that you're seeing from san bernardino, california, where police believed that they exchanged gunfire with a suspect, related to the mass shooting earlier today at a social services facility. police say 14 people in that facility at a conference center on the campus were shot to

death. 17 people were injured. witnesses described as many as three suspects in armor with long guns who fled the scene in a black suv. the police had a conference earlier today and said this was clearly an organized attack that these shooters, according to the police came prepared. and the police say that they do not know if this is a terrorist incident. but again, where terrorism has lost its meaning in so many ways, this was an armed assault that took the lives of 14 people, many of whom work in social services, helping the disabled in southern california. i'm david schuster, and live coverage continues on aljazeera after this.

>> this is aljazeera america, live from new york city, and i'm tony harris, and we begin with the shooting in san bernardino, california. it is the scene we have been watching for four hours now. here is the latest, and this is what we know at this point in time. at least 14 people are dead. and at least 17 more are injured. it's all