we have been carrying this for you live now for quite some time, trying to get you the very latest reporting. if i could go back now to bang moody, this has been going for about an hour and a half now the streets of jakarta now really over run with a are moored tanks with armored personnel. it's quite a scene to see. how confident do you feel that the police are going to get a handal on this in. >> well, i mean, so far indonesian police probably has been very successful in tackling the terrorism. as you know probably already more than 70 700 terrorists has been put on trial and sentenced. in fact some of them already

been released. and for a person like me that has observed this terrorism activity for a long time of the fact that they are attacking by shooting and the night is actually showed that they no longer have the ability to create a big bomb like the balancbalibombing, for instancee that are experts in this kind of activity has been taken hostage -- sorry, has been captured and put in jail or killed. i just got some photographs sent from our photographer in one of the photos, it's quite ab hor he want because you can see that there is a guy that looks very m

walking just bringing his ruck sack and takes out a pistol and shot a police officer at a very, very close range. >> i just want to be clear you are describing -- this is a picture that you are seeing. where did you get this picture? >> well, we got this, you know, a lot of pictures from our photographer in the field. >> so let me -- just to be clear, we are going to just kind of put a pause on that just because it's something that we would need to see ourselves before we can describe it to on you viewers as i am sure you can understand. i will put new touch with one of our producers we would like to see that picture. i understand what you are sale is -- you are saying from what you are hearing, from what people are telling you, it just seems to confirm that the police were, in fact, targeted, is that what you are saying? >> yeah. what i am saying is we have these series of pictures and you look at this pictures, you can see that it's this young man

walking calmly and then took out a pistol, you know, and then basically shot a police officer, a uniformed police officer at a very close range and then just -- >> okay. >> yeah. we will put that picture on the public, we are still -- >> okay. if you could stay close for a moment. what we are going to do right now is get everyone up to speed on what we know so far. there has been a series now of what we believe to be seven explosions, seven, that is updated, seven in the central business district of indonesia's capital jakarta, near the presidential palace and the u.n. offices. we know at least four people have been killed. and that a grenade was thrown at police station and a police officer is among the dead. this situation is happening now. there are explosions, there was gunfire taking place, security

forces obviously are involved in this operation. there is a significant area of the city that has been cordoned off. no indication at this time of who is behind the attacks. let's go to our step vaessen for the very latest of what is happening in jakarta. step, what can you add? >> reporter: well, more and more police right now behind me it's a few hundred meters behind me, where the attacks have been taking place. more and more police on motorcycle bikes and tanks in all kind of vehicles are going up to that direction right now to try to secure the area. as you said, there has been an explosion just recently, only 10 minutes ago. that was the last one. we are not sure if that was another attack or if that was something the police did themselves to secure that area. the area here where i am right now, this is our office, there is a lot of media, foreign media

in this office, but along this whole street, there is a lot of government offices, ministries are there, the united nations is based there, a lot of restaurants, hotels, cafes, and the palace is also in the area. so it's a very, very crucial area if you want to hit -- if you want to target indonesia, this is exactly the spot about you hit indonesia right in the heart. of course, economically, immediately the stock exchange, all the shares have dropped immediately. this is something, of course, nobody is waiting for. it's really a great shock for most indonesians to hear this is happening right in the center of their city of the capital. but also at the certainty of indonesia as a country. >> all right. step vaessen with the very latest out of indonesia. let's bring someone else in this to conversation now. damian kingsbury is an expert on indonesia from deacon university

in melbourne he joins us via skype from there. and we appreciate your time. so do we have our guest there? all right. so there we go. i just needed to see you. there yo you are. so from what you are seeing and hearing this morning about what is happening in indonesia, what are your thoughts on -- what are your thoughts on what's happening right now is my first question. >> it's difficult to make sense it have when the action appears onto still be going on. but the group that's most likely to be responsible certainly that will be the initial focus of investigations, would be the -- a successor organization to [ inaudible ] which, of course, has a long history of terrorist attacks in indonesia. the interesting thing about this now is we have just seen bashier

in court the founder and the leader. he was in court just a day or so ago. >> correct. >> seeking his case -- to have his case overturned he had been jailed for 15 years for terrorism offenses. it would be extraordinary if an tack of this scale would be launched so quickly to him being -- having an appearance in court, but there is, like coincidental timing certainly raises that question. >> because obviously an attack that we seem to have seen this morning would take so much planning, i am assuming is your point. it doesn't seem like something that could have been plan ed in a couple of days. >> no, it couldn't have been planned in a couple of days, having said that we knew that he was going to court. he's been scheduled to have an appearance in court now for a couple of months, so there has been time for planning if this is in any way connected it may not be at all and it would be

counter pr productive to his bid for being released to prison. having said that he's very unlikely to be release go ahead. that's been made quite cleary initially. there are very few other organizations in indonesia, but are not connected with remnants of this. that would be likely to be responsible for an tack of this type. it really does have the hallmarks of an islamist jihad i style attack and that is the principle organization that continues to exist. >> damian fix get to you cause pa*uz for a moment because i want to explain to our viewers what they are seeing on the screen these latest pictures coming to us from local media as you can see there is a big red circle on your screen and somebody in wide my understanding is what we are seeing there is that may possibly be one of the perpetrators of this attack

caught on video, that's the most that we can say right now from what we are seeing with our own eyes. and it's not even clear exactly where this is or what we are seeing. but that's what you are seeing right there on your screen. somebody in white, right there in the middle of the red circle, perhaps one of the perpetrators of this attack. it's difficult to see what -- at the very end there they are reaching back, but it's difficult to see what they are doing. but clearly a moment that law enforcement will thoroughly go over, but damian i need to explain that to our viewers what they are seeing. so our step vaessen has been reporting that the police in jakarta are often targeted. why specifically the police? >> well, the police is seen as a

principle enemy. they have been tracking down on organizations that exist in indonesia. so they are seen as a principle enemy. and, of course, as a representative of the state which this organization wish to his overthrow. it has very little chance of doing so. but it's a high-profile target. of course the center of jakarta where this attack has taken place, where these attacks have taken place, gemma, tam run road is the heart of jakarta it is as you have already been told the center of commercial district, hotels, the restaurants. of the united nations and so on. so it is really striking at the heart of both jakarta and indonesia. >> having said that, how would you characterize the safety of jakarta? >> look, jakarta is a very large being sprawling city and i think anybody away from that central district would be quite safe.

but obviously that particular area is still under lockdown and is very likely to stay that way. until the police are absolutely certain that it is safe to open up. but that will be sometime. they have to conduct investigations obviously in to the causes of the explosions, in to whether there are any of these perpetrators still in the area alive, interestingly, the person who has been identified as a potential attacker wearing white would seem to indicate that this person is associated with an organization such as gemma [ inaudible ] or one that's very closely associate word that. he's a the garb, if you like, that's what we like to wear to demonstrate their religions. >> so these reports that we are hearing that there were people that came until to the city, perhaps on motorcycles firing weapons, does that ring true to

you for their tactics that you would be familiar with? >> both their tack tigs but more importantly that's an incredibly busy part of jakarta being which is known for intense traffic jams and being on a motorcycle is by far the easiest way to get around. if you want to move and not be caught sometimes for half an hour or an hour at a time in gridlock traffic then you need to be on a motorcycle. so if you are going to launch an attack in that area, logically you would be on a motorcycle on the back of a motorcycle because that would be the means for being up to navigate the traffic. >> i want to pick up on a point that -- the point that you were making and i want to bring in our step vaessen to do that. so step, are you still there? >> yes, i am still here, i am not sure if you are hearing damian's point, he was saying in his opinion this seems to maybe

have the hallmarks of islam, the group that is the off -- a group that is an off shoot of i says lamb. that's linked to bashier and you the did some report on the ground his trial and appeal so i was hoping you could refresh the mind of on you view ore viewers. >> yes, we just came back from central java where he was filing his last legal attempt to be freed from prison. he's in a prison for 15 years for allegedly financing military armed training camp for youth for terror attacks. and he says that he didn't know that that money was meant to buy peps. i have to say, though, that there is a lot of new groups, new individuals in indonesian right now. who the police are watching. not only bashier's group, but a

lot of other groups. new generation so to say. and i say -- i can hear from terrorism experts also that they have doubts right now about the danger or influence that he still has in indonesia on the movement. i think there is a good possibility that we have to look beyond his group and for other group that his have come up. new generation, younger people who have not really been under the influence of bashier, so i think the police are looking at a wider spectrum here and yeah, to conclude that there might be a connection to the trial, i don't think so to be honest. i doubt that because there is a lot of other things going on in indonesian since he's been impressed, he has been in prison already for five years now. things have developed in other areas as well. >> i think that's a valid voice to bring in to this discussion.

and with it being so early on, it's at this point we really don know, but i appreciate your reporting on this as well. step. and something that you mentioned a moment ago, in case viewers missed it. the indonesian president has condemned the attacks. he has also ordered his security forces to capture those involved and is has also urged calm. he also offered his deepest condolence to his the families. this is the statement that he released. we cannot be afraid and we cannot be defeated by this. now, we know that six explosions confirmed ex-are explosions have taken place, possibly a seventh. in the central business district of jakarta. near the united nations offices. therthere are reports that i gun may have entered the jakarta theater. there is an ongoing operation, this is what we are covering for

you so far. and as we said, at least six explosions, video of one of the explosions right there is what you are seeing. early reporting seems to say that the police were targeted. we know at least one police substation was targeted perhaps by a granada tack. four people have been killed. at least one of them was a police officer. there's what we know so far. again, this situation is happening right now. we also know that at the theater there was some sort of explosion but we don't know what that was. that could have been a result of a police operation, we don't know that there is anybody in that building. and at this point there are no reports of any type of postage situation. that is what we know right now. i am going bring back in step vaessen to get more you wan updd report on the ground this. as she has been getting reports

from sources and police officers as well. step, is there any type of update yet other whether the police know who it is they are looking fork how many people they are looking for, anybody did he attorneyed yet, anything like that? >> reporter: so far we haven't heard any people being detained. what the authorities right now are trying to do is to evacuate the bodies that are still any police post in the middle of the street. the street here in the central of jakarta. the efforts before by police to evacuate the victims didn't succeed because they were being shot at as the police has been explaining. so now at the moment they are going in there again, trying to evacuate the victims that have been killed earlier this morning by what they say was a granada tack on that police post. it's a traffic police post organizing and arranging traff

traffic. very business any jakarr that every day. always a few police officers on that stand by in that police post right in the middle of the business district of the capital here. >> okay, i am going to talk through this. i know in fact the team have can follow me. there is video we are showing, step, that is from local video showing someone right there, that it's difficult to know for sure that the implication being that this may be one of the people involved in this attack as you can see, it's somebody in white and that's the person right there in the middle of the red circle, what this person has done or is pons i believe for we are not sure but the implication being that this is obviously some video that police are going to want to get their hands on and take a close look at. because this is obviously someone who is a suspect in what has happened this morning. and jakarr that, this video being played several times on local media there.

and jakarta. let me go back to ban bang. i am not sure if you are aware of the video that it is that i am describing if you are able to see it on the local media there. in jakarr tax are you aware of what aim talking about? >> yeah, that's the guy with the white shirt. >> yes. say that again. >> he was seen as giving a sign do his friends or something. >> i assume this is what you were trying to tell me about earlier. but we not had a chance to see it. is this what you were describing? >> yes being that's correct. yeah. >> all right. interesting. interesting video. you are a journalist and you are on the ground there and you are sources what are you are hearing there? >> we have a preliminary report that police thinks the number of attackers is 14. this is very preliminary report. >> sure. >> and it's a possibility that

the police already identified two of them. and they are searching for this -- these peoples of course. and there is a possibilities also among dead are attackers themselves. >> all of this reporting early on. [speaking at the same time] >> the con -- what we do have confirmed, though, is that there are at least four people killed, one of them being a police officer. it's -- we are just not certain who the -- right know who the other three people are that are killed and it seems that at certain moments some of the video were able to get tighter shots of but it's still in the completely clear what it is that we are seeing it's must something of critical importance to what has happened here this morning. as the scene -- is the scene around you outside, are things still really quotas the situation is happening, bam

bang? >> well, it's much quieter than normal days obviously, yes. but there are still people moving about doing their, whatever, their necessities, yeah. >> all right, let me actually ask you something if i can get to my notes here. we were speaking to an expert earlier on indonesia talking about some of the possible groups who may end up claiming responsibility for this, in groups that are linked to bashier. have you done any reporting on him? >> yes, yes, we have done a lot of reporting on him. and including the fact that he is among the group that support

isis. and in fact some of our sources in the police thing based on two people that they believe they have already identified as attacker that this is within of the group has given their allegiance to the isis. i have to tell you it's a very preliminary report. >> sure. >> and one or two source that his we need to confirm again. >> in fact, our step vaessen has said that there are several groups that could possibly be responsible for this, but his name is one that to mind to many experts i assume it's safe to assume that you had done some report on the ground him. in fact, you have. step, if you could pick up on that point again. i thought it was a valid point that you were making while his name is one that comes to mind and while he had a very high

profile trial a couple of days ago that in no way necessarily means that he or his affiliated group necessarily the group that is responsible for this police have a long investigation in front of them. >> actually has distanced himself rerepresently from isil and i spoke toss sun during the trial and economy firmed again that he had gotten more information as he said about sizal and now decided to distance himself from the group. he basically was photographed in 2014 inside the prison among other prisoners as well. in front of the isil flag pledging alliance, so everyone concluded that he was supporting isil think now recently he has distanced himself and i asked his son as well, is this because

of the trial, because, of course, he wants to be free. he wants to be freed from prison and he said, well, i am not sure if that's related to the trial but he saw that he had actually really changed his mind. i am not sure exactly what is going on in bashier's mind about isil right know. but that's the way that we got about his connection to this group. i don't know how much it's either because a the is at stake in his legal appeal right now. it's clear he's 77 years olds and he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison. >> all right. all very important reporting there. step, i think it's important to remind people who we have confirmed is that four people have died in the violence. one was a police officer, three civilians and there was no

confirmation of a suicide bomber at this stage eigh at all. no confirmation of that. perhaps could you pick it up from there on what it is that we do have confirmed, which to be clear at this early stage is not a lot, but it's important to be clear on what exactly it is that we do know. >> reporter: yeah, what we do know right now is that among the casualties and it's not sure if that's among the deaths or the wounded, there is also two foreigners, there is a dutchman, a 48-year-old dutchman, who was also in the area and he's among the victims, it's not clear if he's wounded or worse. and there is another foreigner involved as well. we don't know his nationality. it's very still very sketchy the information that we are getting about the victims of this attack early morning here in central jakarta. what we do know is that the

police says that around 10 to 15 people and to the city on motorcycle bikes but not all may be have been on motorcycle bikes because there is also a report that some of them were working. and one person was allegedly aiming directly at the police and shot a police officer that's according to an eyewitness account. at the police post in this very busy thoroughfare here in the heart of jakarta where all the government offices and the united nations and palace and a lot of companies are based. this is still an ongoing situation. the police is now trying to evacuate the victims. and they are still chasing the people that have escaped who were involved in this attack. they are still also unclear information about the latest, the last explosion that happened at a jakarta theater, a cinema complex there was an explosion not long ago there. but we don't know exactly what is happened, is the police trying to secure the area or

something worse than happens there. >> and it's worth pointing out it's been quite sometime since there has been any level of violence like this. until jakarta, step, if you can just add to that to the city that you know so well. >> there has been a long time we didn't have a major bomb attack in end neesha before then the first big bomb attack was in 2002 in bali at a club where more than 200 people were killed. the ones responsible have been jailed and also execute today that attack. after that everyone year there was quite a big attack oath are in bali or jakarta for a couple of years but the police weaken

the the movement responsible for those attacker they jailed around 700 people in the last at the point years, many also were killed. a lot of experts the were thinking the movement was quite ridiculous ended but a report also came up just a few moments ago that there was new activity. that police were worried about new attacks coming up there were threats on new year's eve especially here in jakarta. dozens of people were arrested all over java, in central java in jakarta because now what experts believe is that the threat is not coming from the outer island right now. because there is also a case of fugitive the police are hunting down who also has pledged alliance with isil, he is on the

run in the jungle fighting the police for many years already. and police are just sent thousands of troops again earlier this week to try to hunt him down. but experts are warning not to focus on him too much because around jakarta in the suburbs according to these experts there are a lot of new groups coming up who are also quiet dangerous. >> step, is the fact that the police are targeted and have been targeted, it "america tonight" it a reflection of any level of success that they have had against these groups? >> reporter: yes. the police believe so. we have seen also a suicide bomber in a mosque at a police station. in central java also blowing himself up injuring a police officer so that was also a very

clear targeted attack at the police. and there is a few in the recent years that were very specifically aimed at the police cheer here in jakarta i spoke to him very recently for two hours about what's going on about the threats and he said, you know, we have very serious information that they are targeting us. that they are targeting the police. because of what they did for the last 10 years to -- this movement which is basically complete weakened because of the anti-terror police and their arrests and also shootouts. there was a lot of shooting also of the suspects in java and a lot of people died also. i think there is a lot of anger from the side of these people of this movement. and that might be also the explanation why the police is weing targeted.