tv Up Front 2017 Ep 37 Al Jazeera December 11, 2017 11:32am-12:01pm +03
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he won at least ninety percent of the three hundred thirty five merrill seats in the miscible poll thousands of people in on jurisich again protested against alleged electoral fraud the main opposition party says it will hold nationwide protests if president quanah londo hand as is declared the winner of last month's election but on this and opposition candidate salvador nasrallah both say that they've won the vote. more evacuation orders have been issued in southern california as wind gusts continue to spread a huge wildfire threatens the coastline firefighters are warning the blaze near santa barbara could become the worst in the state's history. in the u.s. three democratic senators are calling for president trump to step down over allegations of sexual harassment more than a dozen women accused trump of sexual misconduct during the election campaign in the past few months allegations against men in powerful positions of forced a number of resignations the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. nikki haley says those who accuse the president should be heard several thousand
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people have marched in ukraine's capital protesting against the detention of opposition figure mikhail saakashvili the former president of georgia was arrested on friday in kiev he'd been campaigning against corruption within the government of president petro poroshenko. who's the headlines more news for you here on al-jazeera up front next. on counting the cost the gulf cooperation council although there's not much cooperation these days look at how the region is being affected by a pause in economic relations also the shocking numbers on the plastic economy o.-m. g. twenty five years since the world's birth text and counting the cost at this time on al-jazeera. donald trump says jerusalem is the capital of israel and the palestinian authority says if that's the case the two state solution is dead but why did the palestinian leadership have so much faith in the united states to begin with i'll ask the palestinian ambassador to the u.s. and in the arena will debate how serious
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a threat the far right poses to democracy in europe. sums up what thanks for joining me on up front president trump on wednesday recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel he says that he's just recognizing reality israel says its capital israel seat of government is in jerusalem israel's parliament is in jerusalem so why shouldn't israel's closest ally the united states just recognize that reality and recognize tradition as the capital of israel actually that's exactly the opposite t. he totally. reality because the reality of the city is that it is actually owned by the palestinians you're talking about three hundred eighty thousand palestinians who also live in the shaab every mosque every church every
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school and what do the palestinians plan to actually do about this is nothing you can actually do to stop this movie you're powerless when we don't see this move really toward to do to seriously affect the status of those for them because the status of jerusalem is ensuring that its people a nation enshrined in the region the arab and islamic world and ensuring that international law and actually what that statement that on one of the sure the the real international consensus about the opposition and the criticism of why is everyone so you're saying no it's not a big deal as this is not it is a big deal it is a very big deal because it's about the status of america it's about the status of the u.s. administration directing such a head on the heart of the. solution which is also that and this vowing and actually going on a new us promise about the status of jerusalem and the two state solution is a stab in the back is a kiss of death for the two state solution so it's a grave matter. it's a grave matter it's
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a strategic matter i want to get into some of the details you mention two state solution and other issues but why this the moment that the palestinian leadership has decided to say the u.s. is not an impartial broker that you know this time you know and the two state solution bill clinton back in two thousand when camp david broke down he blamed yasser arafat the palestinian for everything he says all the fault of the palestinians in two thousand and four george w. bush said to ariel sharon in a letter you can keep most of the settlements in any peace deal barack obama offered israel the biggest military aid package in history even while israel was bombing gaza twice during president none of those moments you didn't come out and say it's over now you're not impartial why now why do you sit someone say too little too late for the palestinian leadership because it was a limb is the heart of all the matter you're also limits thousands dying in gaza and that was happening with american munitions and. that was an argument with discussing politics now as far as a political strategic decision is the make it or break in jerusalem is the gate of peace or anxiety and confrontations we were we we were trying to believe and we
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were trying to hold it against ok that the u.s. will come to one day to its role as a an equalizer mediator but to keep its policy which settlements are illegal find a solution is on the sixty seven borders an image of the heart of that was the solution some people would say what do you have to show for a quarter of a century of peacemaking or twenty five years or so of negotiation. david and what did you get is one of the palestinians getting from the dismal failure in the media to. the us america could not get to to deal with the situation as a foreign policy issue as a father you have met in with them every step. and you have to claim america now america what america was letting you out of it were five years out of the palestinian leadership was standing on the american that was hotels that you know some it's not their fault yes but the america touring these years might have. made so many mistakes and they did commit so many mistakes but america did not change
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the rules of the game that we engaged in the middle east peace process nine hundred ninety one on it's basis two four two three three if you want security council resolutions land for peace the end of israel's occupation that began in one thousand nine hundred seven the establishment of a state of palestine independent and sovereign east jerusalem its capital the illegality of the settlements i'm talking about it in position ok. these us policy has remained all these years and that will change you know it's hard so is cutting ties with the u.s. government on the table is not an option where will you be when you stay negotiate with us no matter what it's been a no i think the state is staying negotiating no matter what is definitely not on the edge and and they believe today so what is unusual that it's a self-inflicted disqualification of the u.s. as a mediator and we believe this administration by this announcement has really delivered three big damages the first is of the u.s. start us as a mediator here the second is to the ability of the u.s.
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to actually bring about a two state solution because they aimed a shot of the heart of the two state solution which is the third the actually this empower of the constituency of peace you know the peace camp the ones the hundreds of millions in the region in the world are the ones to see and into this conflict and the import of who they are may get their nest the non-solution ist the ideologues the terrorists who are burning families in the west bank the settlers and the settler movement who are in control they have empowered those who do not want to say it was years ago a leaf blower and you know you have to raise lethal i'll use the phrase it's a case of difficulty sort of let me ask you straight up clear it is the two state solution now dead. the two state solution from the u.s. point of view and mediation is that that's not what is and is as a solution to get there and the acuity council not at all if tomorrow or today as of now we're supposed to as opposed to jerusalem can there be a two state solution i don't like the romantic statements you're talking to. let's
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not get more than i thought a lot about it was saying is under our lives on the table i said if you had a solution i did i say that you say you know i doubt if you said he shot a bullet into the heart of the do you think this is my response is what is it dead it's not your intelligence you fired a bullet is it dead it's not my limit or responsibility to actually declare such a thing i am only an ambassador so i couldn't vary the message ok so he's i america this week said chief former chief negotiator for many years for the palestinians said president trump has delivered a message to the palestinian people the two state solution is over is he being dramatic as well no no no no that's his right he is the one who deals with it was to sit with him he's the chief negotiator if you agree with me those are the chief negotiator of course i agree with this so it's dead. i'm just trying to get clarity and then at the deuce let a solution is it still an option it's called a solution right on the this is can it still solve this is what being premature this is being premature it's over no no no no give quoting your chief of the give
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it give the palestinian leadership the ability to convene very soon shortly ok they will convene a call has been issued that invitation to the central council of the p.l.o. let them set this is a strategic moment this is not every action that the moment the only option now available is one state for equal rights for all purposes to stay should live some clarity who live in the historic land the for the longest time from going over to the sea that's very your now we don't have a discussion the option of netanyahu or of an apartheid arrangements is going to be rejected and this thought that school is going to be rejected a lot of your just very large in which you've come in quite dramatic to use your phrase but the two states that one state solution now there's only one state single state that's what you said the same thing this is what we will say that my presidency your president one john. ok so this is a solution is dead then he said if netanyahu insense i'm confused if the netanyahu insists to kill and bury the two state solution the only option we will accept is full. of this week post jerusalem we believe they are not part of the union
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leadership the palestinian authority the p.l.o. committed to two states or one state it's a very simple question i'm just asking larry if you know if you want to position now if i do what i know what your position i don't want to live in is that such an announcement that was made by president trump has definitely reversible damage three things that the u.s. start us as a mediator damaged the prospects for a two state solution because you also there is at the heart of it and damage the concert you can see of peace now what would be the consequences of that is something for the palestinian national leadership to make not for me one last question as a palestinian leader what's your message to young palestinians maybe watching the show with this interview who feel hopeless who feel desperate who feel the world is against them who feel that they'll never be free and this latest jerusalem ization is just another blow to their hopes and aspirations what's your message to them it was a catastrophic moment it was a very helpful moment i understand but it was also a moment that we saw the opportunity
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a this decision has this announcement by the president from has brought back on the national agenda be it has really brought the international consensus singling out the u.s. administration out of the world including the pub of the vatican this is not the first time the from the before the collision and the british are all all the way to the announcement you will see them remains you will see them nothing will touch its start us its identity its belonging the question is where do we go now in the political and strategic sense and they believe we palestinians are capable but for us the most important side of the story is old self reliance on or belief which is shaken with some thank you for joining me up. australia has always been great probably to. quality of life but there's a lot more you just racial disparity hiding behind the official stops producer how . strange it sounds to come out on top in global rankings as the second
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wealthiest nation on the planet. and then look too closely in terms of life expectancy education and standard of living we. are lucky. wow lucky for us some. strait islander australians it's another story entirely according to the most recent comparative study australia was ranked fourth globally in terms of its un human development index but indigenous australians alone would have come in one hundred and play not surprising given that today aboriginal life expectancy is ten years lower the health conditions have been slammed by the un as was the third world and indigenous children twenty six times more likely to be imprisoned and sadly young indigenous man one of the highest suicide rates in the world the disparity is the legacy of colonialism. first took hold of a strain on the twenty sixth of january seventeenth eighty eight
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a date that is celebrated every year as a stray a day although some prefer to call it invasion day. so the beginning of the white australia policy the name says it all and sooner or later the government began to programs of. the color of indigenous people and forcibly removed one hundred thousand aboriginal children from their families all this thing was in place until the seventy's and has been officially classified as an act of genocide and i'm original people were not counted in the sense this is part of the official human population and so lines sixty seven. a century long struggle has made strides toward justice including some recognition of law i'm trying. it's miserably twenty fifteen the government actually cut funding to remote aboriginal communities we can. subsidize lifestyle
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choices living in one of them faster homelands a lifestyle choice really. underway to finally recognise aboriginal peoples in the constitution but unlike the us canada and new zealand australia doesn't have a treaty with its people it is if aboriginal dispossession never even happened the next time you think of picture postcard australia it's worth remembering that while australians appoint equal sound a more equal than others. from france is from germany's alternative to the nearly no one sees of golden dawn in greece far right populous a grabbing the headlines and seem to be on the rise across europe in the tens of thousands of people joined a nationalist march in poland featuring both islamophobia. and which erupted in violence so all europe's liberal values under assault at risk from the far right
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result in exaggeration are some on the left guilty of crying wolf joining me to discuss this. author of go back to where you came from the backlash against immigration and the fate of western democracy and david good hot in london author of the road to somewhere the populist revolt and the future of politics david thanks for joining me in the arena david we hear a lot about the rise of populist smear nazis the far right before we talk about the impact of that especially in europe how would you distinguish between these different phrases or are they effectively all the same thing. they are the same thing and. being. part of the. kind of accepted definition of populist is the view that the vast majority of the people have the same interests and those of those interests or pity to gain. a relatively small elite controlled society in its own interest and is corrupt and
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self-serving. populism of the left you can a populist in the right. near nazis in these sort of self-explanatory in a way it's the sort thuggish street groups racist groups as you say like golden dawn in greece going far right is probably the most problematic of the three terms you mentioned. and there's a political are going to but who should be categorized as far right or not should the former to now be regarded as far right i'm not sure i would put them in that category but such you might disagree with me so you would put the front national in the far right category are not it probably has some far right supporters in it i mean that's a different thing but as a whole i would say the. a religious part of french politics i mean they can't not be they got a third of the of the vote in the presidential election just because memory in the pan got one third of the vote doesn't somehow legitimize her or normalize or seems
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to me david that you're arguing that simply because these parties have given voice to the supposedly long silenced grievances of the working class that somehow they are all a corrective to the political system and i would ask you do you think that parties advocating doing away with birthright citizenship banning mosque construction or banning the construction of minarets or meet are these decent populists is a decent populism when the danish government decides that it's going to take away valuables from refugees arriving i would argue that these sorts of ideas and these sorts of policies are actually a threat to our political systems and we need to distinguish between populist parties that are voicing grievances legitimate ones and those who. actually threatening the core values of our societies over there is absolutely no threat to liberal democracy in europe we have a lot of parties some some decent populists i think all legitimate populists and some illegitimate populism and racism is one of the obvious dividing lines or.
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various forms of extreme islamophobia. but there's absolutely no evidence such a produced no evidence in his book that liberal democracy is about to collapse and already cited the ban in france which was then overturned the thinking by the courts anyway they're going to go to pretty well see what i will argue is that in a lesbian arizona lots of populous parties have been in government these alerts are in results the fact that marine le pen won thirty three percent on the platform that she ran on is evidence that some of these values are eroding i'm not arguing that liberal democracy has disappeared or is disappearing tomorrow and arguing that there's a dangerous trend throughout europe and we need to pay attention to it and what i think you're doing in your zeal to embrace your new political tribe in britain is your white washing a lot of very dangerous parties and dangerous ideas and that is a problem you don't have to agree with the populist or want to vote for them but it
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is important to distinguish i think that there are really gnostic groups in europe and there are groups who you and to a lesser extent me disagree with but who are part of the legitimate mainstream of politics but what about the the f.d.a. the alternative for germany were a lot of people worried what a party that got back into the german parliament seven decades on from when we actually saw actual nazis in the parliament obviously they're not actually nazis in a country like germany you can't even call people nazi without there being you know massive legal legal repercussions what do you make of a party like that are you worried about a party like that being in parliament is that a threat to liberal. no i don't think it is actually i did read the manifesto it talks about the values of the enlightenment it doesn't. didn't really talk very much about reducing immigration it talks very much about reducing refugee inflows it's a kind of it's a popular nationalist conservative popular nationalist party i mean i think in most other countries in europe the would be regarded as pretty mainstream well unlike
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david i've actually spent some time discussing their ideas with the leaders of the day during the campaign and the year before and what i would say is that i have today is giving voice to views that were long to boo and some of those views are very dangerous many of the people who flooded into the day when it went from being a euro skeptic party to an overtly anti immigrant party drove out the founders of the day the people who actually founded the party are no longer running it and if you'll recall during the refugee crisis of late two thousand and fifteen then leader of the petri actually advocated using armed forces shooting at refugees who were coming across the border into germany more recently that i have today has failed to expel from its ranks a regional leader who has called the holocaust memorial in downtown berlin a monument of shame i would argue david that both of those examples are a direct threat to post-war german liberal democratic values no you are but this is
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a kind of anecdotal ism i mean one leader or one official of a party says and what the party anecdotal isn't what most of this is the leader of the party two years ago is a good thing look you've just written a whole book you could just written a whole book about how liberal democracy is under threat and you have failed to make this delineation i mean i think this is precisely what we should talk about so i think there is such a tendency amongst the kind of the liberal moral panic because i would call them to regard all expressions of cultural and social loss as some form of xenophobia and racism and i think this is extremely destructive and let's talk about what is the legitimate delineation of not. racism is the obvious is the obvious delineation i don't think not having hard memorial monument roof is name is not racism well it depends what you're i mean i mean obviously the holocaust is part of the ship of german is shameful past and i mean what did he mean by that i don't know i mean
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it's as your element grandson knows you're not jewish it is it that i consider to be individual words from party officials is not making a proper delineation i mean if the guy was a man that is not old at all then obviously he's on the right if you are the lawyer david if you're going to say it's a party problem it's just be clear to you so you want to make the delineation i want to hear your delineation is golden door nazi party in your view a racist party yeah but they would deny you take their words you know why would you not take their word for they would say we're not. i don't think they do deny it i mean you're going to. go into they go into they go into immigrant neighborhoods and they beat people up you know you just have to look at you have to look at what they do. and as far as i know don't do that they don't deserve that so if you're just to give you that you want it. exactly so you just on that just to be clear you think violence is the litmus test not just rhetoric you know and violence is
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absolutely clear when rhetoric is more complicated than is on the on the context you know who's saying it how representative of the party they are sasha well i would consider the statement of a party leader quite significant it seems to me that you think violence is beyond the pale but the advocacy of violence verbal e is just fine and going back to your point about moral panic i'm fine if you would like to cues me of stoking moral panic i would say that others including yourself are guilty of moral abdication in the face of this threat lisztomania between two different things that we haven't talked about you'd mentioned earlier that you say elections the fact that they're doing well elections is a worry liberal democracy may not be gone now but the trend they're winning elections or getting into parliament the french are voting for independent ever greater numbers but what would you say to the argument that's more a failure of establishment parties not really a newfound love for the far right or for neo nazis or laurie bottle's harvard professor a legend in this field he's argued that the wave of popular sentiment is
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a myth its political potential is still largely submerged after today's fuelling right wing populism have been remarkably stable since two thousand and two i would argue that there's something new going on i do agree that the left the center left in the center right to bear a great deal of responsibility their political failures and their inability to speak to these voters has led to the rise of these parties but the other thing that populist parties have done throughout europe and especially in countries like denmark and france is that they've adopted the rhetoric of the old left there go. after white working class voters not just making these cultural arguments about immigrants flooding our societies and taking them over but they're actually saying we will protect your welfare state but for you and no one else and i think that this is a very conscious effort to combine what was always a nativist position with the economic policies of the left and it's proven very effective i think the idea the kind of teetering on the age of sort of mass programs which if you listen to what things all the time that's the impression you
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get is just completely wrong and the law missed and and i also think it's very damaging it's damaging to you know if you are a young british muslim and you and you listen to the people like sasha was saying about the age of islamophobia it's going to it's going to make you worried about joining the mainstream of your society about applying for the job ok so let me take a course and so on so let me take the point that david raises about you know especially minorities see this and all you exaggerating all you alarmist you said recently you suggested recently that especially that white nationalism is a threat to the west and to europe it's a bigger threat that even quote unquote jihad is terrorism now david would say that is the exact alarmism he's talking about i would argue that white nationalists are a threat to this country the united states and to many european countries because they can present themselves as natives who are valiantly defending the homeland against the invading hordes and they often do this in their campaign rhetoric and
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their policy proposals often reflect this view and what i'm arguing when i say that there are greater political threat than jihad is that in his book tough rear is not going to wind power any time soon and any european country but what we've seen with marine le pen and with the day they've won thirty three percent in france thirteen percent in germany and the next time that there's a major terrorist attack in germany or france their numbers are going to go up and so david i'm not arguing that they're going to be pulled tomorrow i'm. saying that there is a dangerous trend in many of these countries and it's something that we need to be careful and watch out for and to somehow just dismiss it and say oh about scaremongering that's crying wolf and all of these parties are just giving voice to important sentiments we'll have to leave it there gentlemen thank you both for joining me in the arena does our show up front will be back next week.
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for the final. round in the in. thanks to mention learns to some friends because behind the suffering millions of taxpayers because those taxpayers never go away is a new one born every single day and it is an urgent national necessity that it will be visually request. of the support mechanism we created together because i happen
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to live in greece somehow i'm a sinner i'm a bad person. that's machine at this time. you are making very pointed remarks where on line the main us response to drug use and the drug trade over the last fifty years has been to criminalize or if you join us on saying no evil person just wakes up of it in the morning and say i want to cover the world in darkness and this is a dialogue and that could be what leading to some of the confusion online about people saying they don't actually know what's going on join the colobus conversation at this time on al-jazeera. jerusalem as israel's capital no one can deny it doesn't obviate peace.
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