u.s. the state department one would imagine would be embarking upon preparations for this amazing me saying that is due to take place between a sitting u.s. president and the leader of north korea for the very first time in history at a time when the state department is lacking in many heads of department so now they're going to have a new head of of of of the entire department to just switched over from domestic policy over to i think you hit the point exactly on the head in terms of why i think this might be happening now this is an attempt by this white house to try and solidify in advance of what they see as the opportunity of a lifetime that they don't want to see squandered it may have come about rather quickly in terms of the south korean envoys going to the white house the president except in the invitation and now this sort of in a plan for a meeting date and time still to be determined between donald trump and kim jong un

but there is a recognition from the trump administration as a whole those who are very experienced in this type of diplomacy that there needs to be the pieces on the ground and i can tell you that donald trump has an awful lot of faith in my palm pale that's been known for some time he's already been confirmed by the senate once so it will be likely an easy confirmation to slide him over as secretary of state so i think that's what you're seeing here right now is this recognition this is a pivotal moment they need the pieces in place and they didn't have the faith in rex tillerson in order to move forward on that list really but just a couple of days kimberly because throughout this entire africa trip rex tillerson has looked awkward and uncomfortable and in fact he wasn't very well will see his health apparently took a turn for the worse and he was receiving the news of this policy this massive policy announcement along with the rest of the world that doesn't didn't seem to be any kind of inside truck that he was possible. right at two

points to your question there let's start with the health issues certainly this is been a choir rumor in washington for some time that there have been discussions that perhaps he had some sort of diagnosis this is not made public but there was this recognition that perhaps he was dealing with something that he seemed to stumble upon what's he was in the role and wanted to carry out his duties serve his country and so continued to soldier on but perhaps the timing not being the greatest that's number one number two you're right there's no question that it seemed that he was on the outside in terms of donald trump and his his sort of foreign policy strategy if you will what i do know from covering this white house now for more than a year is that donald trump's circle of people that he talks to that he confides in is very small he keeps a very close knit group of those that surround him and advise him and it really made it impossible for rex tillerson at times to penetrate as well you have to remember that they're very different men in terms of their management styles donald

trump works in chaos he thrives in chaos he gets energy from chaos and so he likes to keep a kind of active state this was not how rex tillerson operates i can tell you from people that have worked with him he's very methodical he likes to have things organized and laid out and the two management styles the two just simply clashed and so as a result this is what we're seeing now this manifesting itself in the announcement that was first broken by the washington post now confirmed by donald trump himself on twitter the fact that he has replaced rex tillerson something we expected to happen but didn't know when now being replaced with mike come peo and now we will have the first woman if confirmed to head up the cia but i'm just thinking in this just over a year in which president trump is occupied the white house there's been such a high turnover in terms of his is stuff. there's been

a high turnover but we've seen it before i think that there is this. perception among many especially younger people who haven't seen this before and now i'm dating myself but i've been covering washington for two decades. and i can tell you we did see this early on in the clinton administration which i came in on the tail end of it's not unusual for an insurgent candidate it's disturbing but many people felt there was a need to shake up washington for better or worse i think there is still some optimism at the back side of this that the country might have worked out some of the stagnation that existed but yes you're right this is a white house that is functioning kind of with half its staff at many times we've seen no question this year a record number of people departing for various reasons whether it be security clearances whether it be the fact that they simply weren't qualified or they couldn't take the kind of atmosphere and management style that donald trump seems

to conduct it's an intense place you can feel it the minute you walk in but we have seen this before and historically this has happened before but we haven't had it in modern history so yes this does complicate some of the things that we're dealing with right now particularly as you pointed out north korea that is a top priority for this administration they want to do it right and that's why i think we're seeing this surprise today departure of rex tillerson being replaced by the now former cia director already can be listeners have a little look but then. rex tillerson was is chilly but he was in office as safe at just over thirteen months he had no diplomatic experience. in the posse you'll remember that he'd spent his entire career as an engineer and he was the c.e.o. of exxon before becoming six years say that of course is in the norm this company over the pole shift he has worked to navigate growing tensions between the u.s.

and north korea. he's tried unsuccessfully as it turns out to resolve the diplomatic crisis between cata and its neighbors in the gulf a mystery isn't me and as we've just mentioned mr to the same is in kenya but he cut his africa tour sure to monday he cited pressing issues in washington and kimberly one can only imagine that those pressing issues in washington this north korea. torpedo coming out of the blue when he was standing there in front of in front of the gathered press and just learned of this this meeting with kim jong un we can only imagine it was that. i think it was that and also the washington post who broke the story here in the united states is reporting that in fact it was friday when donald trump let rex tillerson know that he would be leaving his post and that is another reason that that in fact was

a trip cut short that he returned to washington at that point so it's it looks from all appearances that this is been in the works for many days over the weekend but there's no question that that might have been well we don't know the full details yet and we'll certainly try to find out that may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for for rex tillerson the fact that he was left out of such an important policy decision i can tell you that wasn't a calculated one here in washington in terms of of how that meeting between kim jong un and donald trump was organized in fact it wasn't planned it all it wasn't on the schedule but. perhaps rex tillerson felt that he just should have been consulted we don't know what happened whether he said i'm done or whether the president said you're done but what i can tell you from that meeting is it was very much an unexpected one when we saw that transpire on thursday with the south korean

envoys visiting the white house they were scheduled to meet the president in fact the president learned they were on the campus he invited them into the oval office and that is where the invitation from the north korean leader was extended to donald trump where i'm told he immediately accepted so things moved very very quickly in terms of the fact that that meeting is now going to take place we believe between the north korean leader and donald trump but again looking at it from the outside from a person who's had a fair amount of animosity mahsud he between donald trump and the secretary of state rex tillerson you can see why that might be something that would be the final straw for someone who had already had extreme tensions in dayton throughout the entire term so the state to. constantly felt out of step with the white house and in fact many many wondered where where foreign policy was actually being hatched was it being hatched in in the oval office or was it coming from the state

department i'm just wondering how might pump a or who as you've already outlined is is he is that he's a trumpet he's very close to the president perhaps will work smoothly with the style of the president but he's going to have to get used to the fact the policy of foreign policy at least seems to be made on the hoof it's made up on the fly. right this might come pale maybe one of the people though that can kind of rein in the president he certainly respects him and he's certainly respected on capitol hill having served serve there for many years prior to his post at the cia so this may be a good management decision we'll have to see there's no question rex tillerson was frustrated that many of the appointments that he needed in order to do his job would be micromanaged by the white house it wasn't just as the white house blames the senate or the u.s. congress for holding up some of these appointments but we're told that it was the

white house itself that seem to want to micromanage the secretary of state and all of his actions within that department that certainly paralyzed his ability to do his job certainly the president has been very happy with the way my home peo has run the cia up to this point we're told that he enjoys the briefings that are delivered by my pump ale these are things that happen daily at the white house there is always if you look at the president's schedule the president receives a daily intelligence briefing so we're told that often that he requested that mike deliver it himself this is someone the president trusts this is certainly someone that you need heading up a post like the state department it's expected that he will be easily confirmed by the senate given the fact that it's happened once already so certainly it appears again that this is a white house that recognizes when it comes to north korea there is an imminent meeting that could break history could make history there's only one opportunity to

do it right and it appears that they are now putting the pieces in place in order to achieve that right kimberly thanks very much for that now we can speak to lawrence school he's a former assistant secretary of defense he's joining us from washington d.c. . is this what you say that this is the action of a strong decisive leader who is preparing for an historic meeting with the leader of north korea or is this evidence of paula just went well i think it's evidence of poor judgment because they'll be very hard for director pompei o to be confirmed and be in charge by the time they have this meeting which will be in less than not less than two months and it's not just a question. pompei all the question is what other people do you have or example we don't have any ambassador to south korea yet the person at the state department in charge of korea retired in february and he they've been sending

mixed signals on this with secretary jealous and basically saying the day before president trump says that you know we're not going to negotiate with the north koreans will you be prepared it's one thing to have a meeting and it's interesting that the joblessness and the lack of meeting or shake hands or somebody's going to get anything substantively done i mean let's give you an example for you let's say they agree that because they want korea denuclearize us then you're going to need an inspection regime to do that it took us two years to get one with iran which is a much more transparent society than north korea these things all have to be gone ahead of time. the absence of rex tillerson a big loss to us foreign policy. i think so because he basically he and secretary mabus have been able to calm a lot of the people around the world when the president would make these.

statements that he did not have a lot of thought behind them or did not understand you know the interests of the other countries for example the latest on the tyrants you would have hoped that journalists and would be over there dealing with the european union to prevent you know having a trade war or shoring our nato allies that the you know the president still supported or article five so this is i think you know he and madison basically been calming down a lot of the people around the world. not overreacting to the president's actions whether it's mexico australia the problems that he have so it's going to be very hard because pompei of style is a lot like trump's old be very hard for him to you know really act as a diplomat in chief what do you reckon to reckon it was a matter of rex tillerson trying in the town and saying i've had enough of this this unpredictability coming out of the white house how do you think it was the

president deciding that actually now was this really important meeting coming up i want somebody who plays by my my book rather than somebody who seems always to be adults with me. well i think it was a combination of the two and and their reaction to the president agreeing to meet with the north koreans was probably the last straw for the president because he sees himself as the great deal maker and he thinks he can sit down with candy and make a deal that you know go to his last four predecessor the democrat and republican have not been able to make and i think joe wilson was probably say you know you want to be careful what you do you're not going to solve this you don't run right away i mean i had the privilege of working with president reagan and it took him almost two terms to be able to get the intermediate nuclear forces agreement with former top even though they had several meetings ahead of and what do you say to

those who suggest that there is a positive side to this kind of disruptive way the style of the trump presidency in the fight today is managed to get this i mean as as we've already noted nobody has ever had this meeting with the north korean leader he's managed to get it in the most unconventional paths bizarre way but it's still on the agenda well yes but president clinton could have had one but he turned it down because they couldn't agree on a date genda ahead of time he said secretary albright and secretary of state to try and get it ready but she came back and said you have those no reason for you to do this because once the president of the united states commits you can't go back and say that you know this it is not doesn't have the support of the administration so it's not a question a lot of and they say you know going back to president clinton they turned it down because they did not want to grant legitimacy to a ruthless dictator like not without solemn an expectation you get something

positive out of it all right lawrence cope thank you very much indeed but i thank you for having me. all right now we can talk to thomas pickering he's a former u.s. undersecretary of state for political fair a political affairs he's also joining us from washington is this a good move or a bad move what do you think. i think that is probably on the whole good news at this stage although the replacement seems to be perhaps my director of the central intelligence agency pompei oh and one will want to see how he performs but tillerson had a very narrow view of his focus in a very narrow set of ideas about how to proceed it was unable to deal either with the budget problem which was engender to the white house or the personnel problems which clearly have affected very badly the state department particularly its top

level professional leadership which means that tillerson was sort of out there writing as a lone cowboy in the blue with nobody around to help or support him of significance background and experience isn't that going to be exactly the same situation that might pump a.f.i.f. as we'll have to wait and see that's very much within the secretary of state's control as to how he wants to use the professionals and how he wants to run the show from pale has a reputation to being basically a little bit more over shoot from the lip person on the one hand but someone who has at least at one point or another i think consultant closely with his intelligence community colleagues as he has dealt with problems and issues that have come up perhaps more congenial to president trump and that's certainly a very trying to cast and something that obviously we've been bought and it's like staying congenial with the man sitting at the front end of

a roller coaster going it's warp speed as i can i can i can picture that actually i'm but what about the loss of of rex ellis said lawrence calls us saying just a bit alyea that he was very much seen as a steady pair of hands to calm the waters off to the quite often the turbulence interjections by the president often on twitter that will be missed showing. you know it will be missed but it wasn't is required is my good old friend larry korb may have implied although i didn't hear that part of your program that's been episodic the person who watch the person to look at is general mattis over at the pentagon who seems to be in every body since the leader of what has become called around here in washington the axis of adults those people who in one way or another are determined to keep the ship of state on drank and certainly away from

unnecessary three only wanted or accidental conflict which is very important let's look at this forthcoming meeting then that is doing what seven weeks with with kim jong un there's an enormous amount of preparing she what that has to be undertaken can mike pompei in his brief up until we see him up until today with something completely different can he change tack can he rally his specialists and his advisers and get to a negotiating strategy ready for these talks wherever they're going to take place. well i don't think he can and i think it depends a lot on what your expectations are from the talks in the past with the north koreans top down conversations have generally set the stage for a follow on work by professionals to try to work out the details not relying on the heads of state not to be able themselves to undertake that kind of an approach but they set the tone if you like perhaps the goal and they agree on the general

principles and in a way that can be done come pale lacks a team of carefully prepared and well experienced negotiators there are people he could bring into the process the former u.s. negotiator investitures son kim is now ambassador in malaysia but he would be an ideal person to bring back on the job even if only temporarily and have somebody feeling for him in malaysia where he took that particularly deep responsibility on but he's had years of experience in this particular effort the danger from the trumpet ministration is that he worked very successfully with the obama administration but the value from the trumpet for the trumpet ministration is that somebody like him as a deep experience in the knowledge and could help to pray i'm a meeting at the top which i think could be useful not to have expectations that

there will be an immediate and clear and totally sink game plan for the denuclearization of the been insula but rather than it will set the stage a create the principle of a draft the communique so to speak yeah i'm stuck with this well what i have what just saying but it's also a relevant to bear in mind the fact that the north koreans are exceeding their experience at this level of nicosia action and. this particular team now even with my home pay it as a secretary of state is not particularly experience and from what we understand they don't have that technical know how and in the back rooms says there's a huge amount at stake isn't that i have i've been in diplomacy a long time and seven weeks can be an eternity or it can be the fleeting of a second it depends upon how significantly are able to organize yourself how clear

you're able to think through the priorities how well you can plan the particular program you'll have and i have seen many some good meetings many of them prepared in less time and so i'm less worried about that than i am the depth of the experience from a blimp but the depth of experience problem can also be resolved and that's very significant the unpredictable remains the unpredictable what will the president do next and is his focus much more on virtual reality television and the self promotion or is it coming around to be maybe if we support and strength of the natural national interest no war in korea a solution to denuclearization even step by step and taking advantage of what is clearly at this stage both a weakness on the part of the north koreans otherwise they would not have proposed the meeting or a misperception on their part that somehow they are dealing now with

a third rate country with no capacity in one way or another to meet them at the conference table that would be a vast overestimation of north korea's strength and they should be very cautious about that but it is a huge challenge as you say and changing orses in midstream is a difficult problem but changing and before you get into the water so deep that you're going to drown when you do it's perhaps a better tactic than changing them right before the meeting. we're going into a meeting in a situation where the reason no longer confidence between the president and the secretary of state all right let's go let's look at the middle east now what the difference if any mites the presence of might compare bring to the situation with regarding the palestinians and israel and of course the rather stubborn crisis here in the gulf that seems not to be going away anytime soon just might come pay

bring anything different to the table that might offer a glimmer of hope. i think it's too early to say the man needs to be judged on his record he has more of a record particularly in the congress and to some extent as director of the cia is someone who is more india logical then he is perhaps realistic in terms of his approach a lot of people emerge in jobs that require realistic policy advice more dominated by etiology and they find out over a period of time sometimes quickly sometimes later that the people that they are succeeding and who they are italy india logically combative with were not so dumb in terms of how and in what way they solve problems and how and in what way they went to resolution we don't know the answer to your question at this stage it is very clear however that floridian logical constructs in the middle east are not

likely to solve the problem they may make israel happy they may make the gulf states nafi they certainly could lead to a conflict with iran which nobody in america i think wants to see today needs to be carefully guarded against and they might lead to the disruption of the iranian agreement of may on may twelfth when the president has promised not to do another waiver all right path forward there but at the moment they don't seem to be picked up and one wonders whether mr bump aoe would in any way at all be attracted to that particular idea how we don't know the you know that question can i ask you to hold on just for a moment mr pickering because i just want to introduce a little bit of extra information regarding this region the middle east because of course and rex tillerson the secretary of state that think there's been quite a bit of volatility to say the least i mean recent e-mails obtained by the b.b.c. have revealed that the u.a.e.

government that's the united arab emirates government low paid to get rex tillerson fired for his support of katha after the fall nation bloc. paid off the gulf nation mr tillotson criticised the saudi government for its role in the conflict in yemen and the political situation in lebanon he also came under attack for skipping israel on his middle east hill last month when he visited egypt kuwait jordan lebanon and turkey and coming back to you then thomas pickering it seems very much as there rex tillerson and his whole it out state department was very much out of kilter alpha set with the white house from the get go. i think that certainly on something like qatar where rex tillerson had deep experience coming out of his leadership of a son mobile there was a sense in his view of more balance required in the situation and he clearly did

not think that saudi arabia or the u.a.e. were gaining ground in yemen you know and then as the previous administration i think one way or another perhaps tilted toward the notion that there was not an easy ready to hand forthcoming military solution near and it probably like syria would go on until in fact something could work at the conference table but we don't yet and i think know precisely where they all will be one i suppose hopes that the white house that he'll be totally with the white house and the lesson of tuitions departure is that if you're not with the white house as the secretary of state you don't survive for very long well i have to say good tillerson pushback on a few things my sense was that he could have pushed back on a larger number of things although maybe his political half life would have been less than it has been up until now tell us patrons thank you very much in davis sharing your thoughts with us now without any more ado let's go to washington let's

hear what president trump himself has been saying within the last few minutes. forever. i. like. the way. i. like. them and. i got. the feeling we were going. to happen. but i think my phone will be

a way that they don't. read that. i very much so that. you're. going to. record i've been talking about this for a while. got along quite well but we disagreed on what you look. around still because i. don't want to write something. else that there was no we're not really think. i like something. very similar to what. i did well read the story that i like read the line really a bit. rough. so

i really. really i think that by my reckoning. it is good. i've made good progress. with so many that i've. got to go well with. really all that different they. say to get. back to instilling respect. for whatever. whatever it is why do people get to. know what it was i got well

like. frankly i get along well with. you know we read a lot of good things i think i do good. i think like. what i really appreciate is when i got a very good writer. well it sounds to me i'm going to make. it sound like an. old habit that i don't. like so. now we're going. to hit the road i. was. going. to. like it right and i would say that.

we got the facts right but it was the british. they didn't. get the fact. that we would get them right every day but i had a. very happy with. the house telling them that we. don't believe. that. it was a good. back someone because. they. haven't got. that left no doubt so i want to say how valid are they to.

look at it larry. i don't want. to. say that i want to. know. i don't. believe that well i would go with. a great. well lowry a good friend of mine alone he's got a very early in the campaign i think the earlier one of my original backers. a very very talented man and a good. i think i regard as a good i won't make. many others but i think barry has a very good thank you all out. i'll see you at the world i'll see you at the wall. well that was president tom giving back up his most in the world oval press

conference kimberley halkett. white house correspondent who i don't know if he was struggling as. as i will surely make out what the president was saying but we did get much more sort of context with regard to the sacking all the should we say of rex tillerson and he specifically mentioned that they didn't see eye to eye on the iran do. perhaps martina have a little bit more experience trying to hear the president over the how the. the sort of rotating wings propeller whatever it's called of marine one but that is that the sound you hear is the president of parts of the white house and he did mention there he's headed to california today to look at those prototypes for the wall that he fought so famously has been promising to build to along the border between the united states and mexico getting back to your question yeah what is what were these differences of opinion that really seem to exist between the former

secretary of state rex tillerson that we now know has departed will be replaced by the cia director mike pump aoe we've known for some time that there has been some difference of opinion between these two men that led to the. rex tillerson famously calling donald trump a moron we are told something that he did deny but it wasn't just the issue of the iran agreement that donald trump talked about in that tape we heard just moments ago it was so many things it was the iran agreement it was the paris the climate accord whether or not to aggressively back the embargo against qatar whether to pursue a diplomatic approach to north korea on all of these big issues it seems that there was a difference of opinion between donald trump and rex tillerson the now former secretary of state and so you heard there in the words of the president that he felt simply that this was something the two men had been talking about for some time we are

told and it is being widely reported now in the united states that in fact it was friday that rex tillerson learned that he would no longer be in that post when he was on a trip to africa he made that roughly and came back to washington where it apparently was made official. we also heard. from the president he is maybe leaning towards russia and its responsibility in the spy poisoning case in london he said he's not entirely sure but even speaking to reason made the british prime minister later today but nonetheless the u.s. seems to be supporting the british government as it says that it's pretty confident the road leads back to russia. yeah that's the other big headline in here martine because we didn't hear that from sarah sanders the white house press secretary on monday and that is what a lot of people were really focusing on because when we had that white house

briefing with the press secretary it came on the heels of that statement from theresa may where she very clearly pointed the finger at russia for being responsible for that nerve agent attack but it seemed as if the trumpet ministration was dragging its heels with there was i was sitting in that briefing there were a number of opportunities where sarah sanders had the opportunity to to point the finger at russia she was pressed by reporters repeatedly she said she wanted to see all the facts but now we have one day later the president very clearly saying that he believes in fact that it was russia as if he wants to talk to theresa may that sounds like in that audio he said there that he will be speaking with her today once he gets the complete set of facts himself directly he said that he may even condemn russia for those actions but he's waiting for that phone call before he takes that next step but certainly donald trump going one step further than his press secretary did on monday in terms of who it is the united states believes is

responsible for that nerve agent a tad alright and then he said something that i'm wondering if you'll agree with chile he said that he had consulted with many people but ultimately made up his own mind when it came to this decision to accept the north korean invitation is that how you sort because i remember you are actually there when the news came through. right i personally was not in the oval office that's a pretty spot i did not have access but i can tell you for people who were very close by in fact i spoke to the reporter that spoke to the president when he hopped into the briefing room which is something that's never happened before to say there would be an imminent announcement and what i've had an opportunity to do in my reporting on the white house campus there is the fact that yes it was that spur of the moment it was so fast moving even members of his own administration in that inner circle had no idea that that was going to happen this is how donald trump

operates he likes to get things done he's got a very short attention span he gets easily irritated he has a very he's got no patience so when he learned that in fact those south korean envoys were on the campus of the white house he invited them into the oval office they weren't even scheduled to meet with the president it wasn't on the schedule in fact they were scheduled to meet with a charming master and a number of others in the national security team when the president learned about that he invited them in those envoys who had just met with the north korean leader conveyed his message directly to the president we would like a meeting the president of the united states immediately accepted so there's no question there was no time for rex tillerson to find out about what was happening because even donald trump's staff there on the west wing had no idea what was taking place until it had actually happened and to the last little bit of what the president had to say to the assembled press as the helicopter was wearing bell and it was was about is about to go off to california to look at the printer ties for

this wound so the issue of the wool seems to be a reality becoming ever closer to becoming reality he's going to look at prototypes . right there's no question that donald trump still believes in his wall now he has said all kinds of things about how it's going to be paid for he's backtracked on some of that vacillated considerably and then qualified and said i didn't say that when pressed on the some of his previous statements but the initial idea of the concept that he believes there is a necessity for stronger security along the southern border with the united states as part of a wider comprehensive way to control immigration is something that he's still pressing for so he's headed out to california to look at these prototypes in terms of what what might be needed when there is an actual physical wall having said that the president has also now backed down on the fact that he said there would be a wall along the entire southern border now recognizing that may be

a physical impossibility there as an acceptance now that the wall per se could mean sections of a physical wall in other areas that may be aerial patrol but that he is still deeply committed to that campaign promise to erect a wall in some form or fashion along the southern border of the united states with mexico all right kimberly now we're going to just take a look back at the top line of course is the rex tillerson is no longer the u.s. secretary of state he's being replaced by mike formerly the head of the cia let's have a look back at mr to listens career persico hain reports rex tillerson was an unusual choice for secretary of state he had no experience as a diplomat instead he spent his career first as an engineer rising through the

ranks eventually becoming the c.e.o. for energy giant exxon he was controversial because in that job he was awarded a high honor by russian president vladimir putin and that became an issue as he looked to the senate for confirmation is one reputed war criminal i would not use that term. it was a close vote but he was named secretary of state and quickly set out to reassure a nervous department hi i'm the new guy i know many here are concerned about how trump america first would translate in foreign policy i know this was a hotly contested election and we do not all feel the same way about the outcome each of us isn't coddled to the expression of our political beliefs but we cannot let our personal convictions overwhelm our ability to work as one team. let us be understanding with each other about the times we live in as we focus our energies on our departmental goals tillerson first goal find out how to shrink the state

department and foreign aid agency launching a survey to figure out where cuts could be made which departments streamlined he said until it was done most top positions would not be filled in unheard of move in washington and he seemed to embrace a proposed cut of almost thirty percent of the department's budget but it turned out his biggest challenge trying to be on the same page as his boss during the g.c.c. crisis he called for an end to the blockade only to have president donald trump contradict him just about an hour later his first attempt at shuttle diplomacy failed to move the g.c.c. crisis to resolution and when it came to north korea he once again seemed out of step while tillerson expressed hope that the crisis could be handled diplomatically his boss promised fire and fears they will be met with fire fury and frankly power and the discord continued when tillerson announced the u.s. was speaking directly to north korean officials the president tweeted that

tillerson was wasting his time writing save your energy rex will do what has to be done. but the clearest break came after the president seemed to equate white supremacists with the protesters fighting back against their message of bigotry in charlottesville virginia asked about it on a talk show tillerson gave this unprecedented response from a cabinet secretary. i don't believe anyone doubts the american people's values or the commitment of the american government or the government's agencies to advancing those values and defending those values and the president's values the president speaks for himself chris. are you. separating yourself from the answer p.j. crowley worked in government for thirty years he says tuitions leaving sends the wrong message to the world if a secretary of state. leaves barely less than a year in the job that that will communicate significant turmoil to the rest of the

world and that you know that will add to the concerns that the world house about the direction of american foreign policy a foreign policy the tillerson tried to set even a president trump often got in his way political heat al-jazeera washington all right now let's refer to a statement that has just come out just being released by the white house and in it the president is credited as saying i'm proud to nominate the director of the central intelligence agency mike pompei it to be our new secretary of state mike because the praise of members in both parties by strengthening intelligence gathering and modernizing our defensive and offensive capabilities i've gotten to know mike very well over the past fourteen months and i'm confident he is the right person for the job at this critical juncture finally i want to thank rex tillerson for his service a great deal has been accomplished over the last fourteen months i wish him and his family well so that was essentially the sentiment of the president as we heard him

. talk just before he got on to that. helicopter to go to california we can now see to come ross he's executive director of independent diplomat and he's joining us from london. again now your speciality really is the multi that show institutions if i'm right in saying in particular the u.n. and i was wondering what you thought of in terms of assessing rex tillerson stime in office i mean in many ways that the real force of u.s. foreign policy came in the form of nikki haley the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. would you agree. right the u.n. is one of the exceptions to the trail of american policy in that nikki haley has been a pretty. unclear because of american foreign policy is it not directly a department who she refers to is not always clear but she made a pretty consistent line unlike the vision between the state department and the white house. and she's also been the one of the great sort of advocates

for the end of this iran nuclear deal that seems to be a bat's the biggest the biggest gripe coming from the president himself and he's already said that that is perhaps the issue upon which he and rights to listen agreed least. amongst others i mean the number of issues on which they disagreed not least the president didn't meet an elegant it's quite a long list so it's a bit of guesswork to find out work out with deeds that they've actually divided over peculation. it with north korea you know i'm not quite sure that this is iran related but what we can be sure all is the new secretary of state might. is a state it out of the critique of the real iran deal in a marginal seat in a way that of course reflects what so there's a meeting of minds now and what about i mean overall would you say that the

departure of rex tillerson then is a loss oh is it a positive thing or perhaps it's not really going to make much of a difference. i think you could consider below around the world record clinton was seen as one of the grownups this trail why all right that is the current administration along with the national security adviser and the pentagon. the department of list and i think some worry about it. in the white house. because the. mark this administration is. and was able in some common consistent so it's a full message under the hysteria of the it's a state of the rest of it which was reassuring while the horse is now. i'm what do we think of mike pompei we know that he he has the air of the president there's

apparently there's some good chemistry between the two does that inspire one with confidence. oh his politics are pretty hard right he was the ferocious critic. it when he was in the congress it was saying go to supposed to moderate inquiries into the bengazi right away this kind of thing. so i think ideologically at least you can deceive me probably more aligned with the white house than perhaps reckless and it was. you who was. the cia. one can say about paris. control. and what about. this theory that. well rex harrison was clearly left out of the loop wasn't he when it came to this this upcoming korea meeting and what about the changing of the guard being if put into effect in order to prepare better for this meeting is about

seven weeks away i mean do you believe in that do you think that my pump is going to add to this vast amount of work that needs to be done in preparation for that me sane. well plies the existence of some kind of strategy and we're in the white house about how is it with north korea and of course there's no evidence of such thinking at any time now or in the past the idea that this is. some group of different north korea i'm a little skeptical about. the president's strategy is. weak maybe. if they can't be anywhere else i come ross thanks very much really good to talk to you. and thank you thank you about the state department which mr tillerson led has released its own statement let's see what they're saying now the secretary had every intention of staying because of critical progress made in national security

he will miss his colleagues at the department of state and the foreign ministries that he's worked with throughout the world the secretary did not speak to the president and is unaware of the reason he's grateful for the opportunity to serve and believes public service is a noble calling he wishes he wishes and i'm afraid i can't read the final part of that but this is this is coming from the state department one coles is this ng professor at the center for gulf studies here at cass a university thank you very much indeed for coming in you are an american i understand oh yes. so is this a loss rex tillerson surprise or what terry immediate reaction oh it's not a surprise in fact there have been rumors for months that this was coming and even rumors to the effect that mr pompei

a would succeed till there soon. and even even that might compel you had you had a view on his being if he really what was it what are the qualities then apart from getting on really well with president trump what are the qualities that might come play it has well i don't think it's a matter of qualities i think that trump simply did not get along with tillerson until loosened did not follow trump's policies tillerson was critical of trump's championing of saudi arabia over the blockade of cutter. tillerson has not been favorable to russia in the way that. trump would like him to be. and last summer told their son appears to have called trump. an idiot yeah he's explicitly understand that week. it sounds very much from that statement that we've just read that he is actually contradicting the president we've been hearing from our correspondent in washington that they're saying mr to the sim is informed of his

imminent demise on friday this statement is saying that he didn't speak to the president and he seems to be completely out on the limb and unclear as to what's what's led to this this is the way trump fires someone when he feels that they have betrayed him he did this to james komi who found out he was fired on television and now tillerson has found out that he was fired in the same way. and he said that he will miss his colleagues at the department of state in the foreign ministries he's worked with throughout the world he did not speak to the president and is unaware of the reason i mean that's quite damning isn't that well as i said it's the same thing that happened to komi and this is a pattern with trump that when he does not like someone when he feels the person is not personally loyal to him he fires him very publicly and in a way to humiliate him and what about the damage then the damage of this kind of impression of there being a role revolving door in washington in this administration it doesn't really

instill a great inner confidence as it well this administration has been a roller coaster ride every day we wake up to trump's erratic tweets and so anyone who had any confidence in the study knows the hand at the home was fooling themselves. this might come pay bring much then to the world of diplomacy that we are in a position of great to most around the world and the united states as has as you know traditionally been the the the setting handle miss the global policeman can this add anything to that no pump aoe made a reputation when he was in congress as a stretching martin that he actually accused the pentagon of lying over the progress against eisel in iraq he's not a person that holds his holds has his opinions back and not the sort of person that will make a good secretary of state is he

a yes man no he's not a yes man he has his own views and very strong views but perhaps they are closer to trumps than tillerson is we're. what do you think then is the first issue that he's going to have to get his head around will it be the north korea amazing as i keep saying is seven weeks away which doesn't sound like a terribly long time to me that's right well he's been thrust into this. situation where he has to handle all the various crises around trump trump just apparently mistakenly announced that he'd been invited to talk to the north koreans and said he would do it so now everybody has to swing around and try to make that happen there is also an ongoing crisis in syria there are issues between the united states and turkey issues with russia issues over the cutter blockade in the middle east so pompei will you know has his plate full just as he comes into office right

one call thank you very much indeed for your thoughts all right let's talk now to rami karim he's a senior fellow at sam far as institute for public policy and the american unit in the university of beirut he's joining us from there via skype what's your reaction ronnie. well this is pretty much in keeping with what the trumpet ministration i was dumb over the years bringing a hardliner into a senior position mostly on the basis of how trump feels comfortable with him and an appoint a person to run the cia who has been severely question in previous years by the u.s. congress for involvement in torture and destroying films of americans torturing. captives in thailand a few years ago so this is very much in line with what we've seen both procedurally in terms of how trump behaves how he behaves in an erratic and very personalized

way and also in terms of the turning over of of personnel but also in point appointing people to high positions to who are less at least to say the least controversial not only in terms of their views but in terms of their adherence to a fundamental ethics and law in the united states and international law against torture and it seems like that out of a so this is going to go on for a long time i think as long as trump is there what we've been hearing. on the news of the exit of mr tennyson is that he appeared to be a setting hadn't he could come the horses after the turbulence of the white house the early morning tweets will the presence of mr to this him be missed in the middle east. i think the presence of tillerson will be missed in the world of lives according to russian olive tillerson was a pretty reasonable rational fellow who ran exxon which is

a major international organization we may not always agree with his idealist ideological positions but he was a russian rational reasonable person who played according to rules according to systems and that's why he didn't last for long and even during his stay in the state department he was often at odds with with the president so yes i think you will be very much missed we don't know how it was going to actually conduct themselves and as the head of the state department will have to wait and see we know that is gotten along well with trump in his capacity briefs trump of remodeling and they seem to get along well at a personal level so that's probably a good sign but we don't know in terms of policy setting what this is going to mean and as to how to proceed with regard to the gulf crisis we are expecting the saudi crown prince in the united states any day now we then to

think that the crown prince of abu dhabi is to be invited to washington and there is some talk then of the emir of qatar going to washington and some hope of the g.c.c. summit being caught under the aegis of the white house do you think that that would still be a possibility a feasibility now. only if trump decides to push ahead with it and only of trump has a particular strategy that makes sense and that he thinks is going to succeed and all of these are unknown that unknown not only because trump doesn't share his views they're probably unknown because trump probably doesn't have any views about some of these basic issues we saw in the beginning of the cut of a siege by the four countries last june that the initial statements that trump made were later dropped or required to be reversed because he didn't know all the facts

about u.s. relations and cut them and the region it's clear that the united states seems to want to resolve the g.c.c. crisis i think there's no doubt about that and it's also clear that they haven't been able to use their influence to get that done with the kuwaitis so this is very strange in many ways and i think it's a show if they would the new face of the united states in the middle east that is it uses military power when when it flaunts to do something in the in syria or in iraq or in yemen or or drones all over the place but otherwise when it gets into sophisticated diplomacy it either lies down and rolls over and doesn't do very much or in the case of say jared pushing around the legit israeli peace plan that is coming up with they just take the israeli side and go with that and hope that it works so this is not a good sign of the united states as middle east policy has been somewhat of a true.