called it a criminal operation carried out by what he calls israel and its tools one hundred members of the rescue group and their families left southern syria through the israeli occupied golan heights and saturday night israel's military gave them safe passage to jordan after a un request iran has condemned the tweet by u.s. president donald trump calling it a passive reaction to comments by iran's president trump warned house and rouhani of consequences if he threatened the u.s. it's in response to the threats by the iranian president or back to the top of the hour with us. to stand the differences. and the similarities of cultures across the web.

you can. see. they're all full to be around ten million catholics in china the majority worshipping in government approved churches like this one in beijing. but many others do so in secret in so-called underground churches which means they're often under surveillance and so never totally safe. they see themselves as the true followers of the catholic church in the official church the pope's authority is not recognized but that may be about to change the reason the vatican and the communist party appear to be close to an historic deal a deal that would give pope francis

a say in the appointment of bishops to the official church. in exchange the vatican would recognize bishops ordained without the pope's approval in effect a recognition by the pontiff that the two churches should become one. their approach mall between china's communist party and the vatican is highly significant china broke off diplomatic relations with the vatican almost seventy years ago following the communist party revolution led by chairman mao. but now two of the world's most secretive organizations are close to announce a good deal brittle the side to future of china's catholics. the agreement though has many detractors one prominent critic has called it a trail of evil and to sell out that critic is the former bishop of hong kong cardinal joseph says he's never recognized the chinese government's efforts to

interfere in the church and for that reason travel to the vatican to warn the public face to face against any. today cardinals then talks to al-jazeera. today how risky is it for people to worship in so-called underground churches in china i think the. decision must be very different at indy in a city when where you have a strong underground community there are mass every sunday many people go but they don't have changes so they say mass in the private home and that these masses technically illegal obviously either but everybody. everybody the neighbors they know that they are singing their praises. and. surely no

because they be punished if it's illegal you know when i was teaching in shanghai i have my confidence solutions samos in the end of them. you know what the people around the the public security. in a what did they told me they say oh father's hand tell your father to be to be more discreet what happened. tell him to cross the door when the same us. you know why the too many people go there his room is small so they feed a staircase everyday kitchen down there and here people. keep coming back to the believe the open that's so much the government whose face because that's tolerated that's against the law but now no more on there is insertion now from the first of february to enforce the law now and what isn't will that this must.

unlawful so people who now prairie in underground churches catholics who pray they risk regretting arrest yet so day the priest at telling the people priests don't come anymore we are now used dangerous the government told us they are going to enforce the law how many priests and bishops are still detained in china the year of year in jail not many not many maybe two bishops and maybe a dozer priests not more because they don't want to have a mantis the margins create problems they have. more. improved with us to decide to change like what like. threats like and enticement what sort of threat

or threat and enticement always you know to get they come to you they say oh we know your brother has some problem at least workplace are do you want us to to put a good word there in the say yes please. they have to collaborate. it was hell no thank you. we can arrange it ok or they go to a difficulty to say fired at that guy so it's blackmail they used blackmail that night and they may come over you monday see oh do you want to sue to say the car to bring him to the hospital is a sane if we a said yes late even don't i said the good husband say don't i said that only they are law they can do anything the company is

a law they are law how much contact do you have with the underground catholic church today i never contact them actually because maybe dangerous and i tell them not to contact me from china because every is controlled but they can come now it seems that is easier to come to hong kong than before and so they come to see me and then they can send message through other people a number of years ago you helped get money to the underground catholic church money that was donated by a wealthy hong kong businessman jimmy lie twenty million hong kong dollars i think are you still able to send money to the catholic church the only one suffix yes yes i may have been more and your fisher down the underground i would like to have more of the end of round but it's more difficult to do to be in contact with them easy

to send money to them. but now i think. i find the more ways. you see the bishop may have many occasion where he thins ace is good to do something or to help somebody. but he had to use the money of the that isis i suppose or that he's has enough money but i am. a kind of outsider i'm a religious i'm not coming from the diocese so i have to be cautious to use the money of the diocese actually i never used the money of the diocese so the money our jimmy lie help me to do all sorts of things which a bishop may like to do. with that money in the last few years we've seen a growing reproach more between the vatican and the chinese communist party

affecting things like the appointment of bishops yeah that's progress isn't it is it a good thing in your view no not necessarily. but not necessarily but what we're seeing at the moment is a case of the of the vatican being able to expand its influence of china that is progress is no no people came to know that the holy see is ready to approve anything to legitimize everybody so they had did the conviction that just get ordained sooner or later delegitimize does really bad so that give occasion to the opportunists they do that if they were we do government they can force the holy see to recognize them is no good at all and the holy see just in order to please the government they abstain from doing things they should do for him but

they don't give bishops too many touches in one window the bishop died didn't give a successor so both churches in ground and of the church. we can read about it so it is no good at all do you worry that the the vatican is giving legitimacy now to the chinese communists yeah that's terrible. table i did must know. that the church approved by the government is objectively schismatic i made yet. again a breach of confidentiality but three or four years ago i had a meeting with pope francis for forty five minutes i talked for forty minutes he made only one interruption very short interruption when i said we have

to agree that the independent church is church so now is already objectivity smutty and the pope said chair at all of course so how can you know g.-d. minus a ski smartly church which is just schismatic their company under the guidance of the government. the church doesn't change just because you legitimize or their bishops eve or those bishops or the majority of those bishops are slaves of their to come mr rivkin there is no improvement and now there are things the and the talking about what are they going to do we thirty bishops in and around there calling them to come

up and did the bedouin say oh now we recognize the seven. and you government our thirty bishops but i ask what do you mean that the government recognized the thirty. do they allow them to go on functioning as now even underground in debility from the government should in no and so they are you why did to join the. but you did association you feel so strongly about the vatican and the communist party jointly appointing bishops that you flew to rome to see the pope and to talk to him face to face just a few months ago what did you say to the pope as it does that's a think. ok they say the last word to the pope ok but the last word is not enough. i'd like you to quote

a hundred eighty and. he said sometimes formally verbal. seems out the door twenty of the pope is respected but practically you are giving the power into the hands of the government so if it's the government which choses the bishop and then through the bishops continent which is fake at the present named to the holy father and the holy father to say the last would a case sounds very good but what kind of last word hanky the pope can approve easily those names no no and so he had to be told ok you can beat up but up there we don't it is here up to the commies to make under the name now how can good name come from the common is what they know about the

qualities required to be a bishop why did you feel compelled to go to rome to see the pope a few months ago why not just send him a letter or deliver a letter to one of his emissaries here in hong kong why did you feel the need to go to the vatican because it was the second time that this desperate bishop in china santo once you send a letter to the holy father because they told him to resign. to make place to the illegitimate or even s. community take the bishop with the special put their wanted to retire had he reached retirement age was he more than seventy five it's never in force that law in china don't talk about the age or the bushes are eighty or ninety is not a question of age he was asking for a successor for a long time they are not demean now to give the place city is communicating that's

a problem it's not a question of of retirement it's a people who don't know the reality they may confusion for a long time he adds to retire but now he feels to retire to give it a place to live to excommunicated bishop i stand a priest to bring a letter not to the pope because he may not be able to but to to to to see the pope so today congress or even get a haitian telling him that please make a copy to them to the pope oh but i didn't know whether the letter which the pope because my letters i cannot be sure they reached the pub because he never answered the pope never answered the last my many letters he didn't answer and needed even sign a. receipt maybe the pope didn't receive us or maybe. so i want you to know the real situation so i was doubting if my letter has reached

the holy father so now after christmas the second letter of that bishop came to me now i thought i must absolutely make sure that the letter richard holy father the only way is that i go there and put into ends the sects so i took the to fly in and went to rome if it were it's incredible what did the pope say to you when you presented him with a lesser. actually you see that's at the end of a public audience so there is a queue of maybe ten bishops and i was the only so i was the first one to kiss the hand of the holy father that the pope greeted me oh how is your health i didn't even answer his question. i'm here just to bring you dissenter priest one time to read it then i went away but then to my surprise in that up to

no it was wednesday i received a call telling me that the pope is receiving you the evening of friday. so in my literature already father had a chance to look into the matter you know yes i told them or not to create under their case. want to answer because. he is so clear what would he say about so i was so so happy and then i made also get a question i should prefer to have you received oh my lettuce you know what was the answer he didn't say yes it is a no said. i don't have a very clear impression. so what do you think about what what do you what are you going to not have a impatient of my lettuce they were so spicy monitors spicy

in what way i could any with the father i'm making so many questions he may be lost on the sleep because of monitors so how can you say a question so probably he did not receive my letters what was it personally painful for you to challenge the pope because cardinals are supposedly one hundred percent there to make sure so also because imus and easier. we are peppe east's we are fanatic about the pope but here now i'm not blaming the pope because as far as i know there is a variance between the pope and the people around him until the pope approves those things and make a senior church i don't believe that those things are coming for the pope so i have

see some hope that the things may not so i think the pope is being misinformed by his advisors. not completely aware inform i would not say complicating misinform because the pope is so optimistic and now these people. are happy to encourage his optimism and without a penny in order the bad things or the things that he may not like to do here. like the negative things which happen in china which gives no foundation to any optimism what do you believe the pope's strategy is for china because to the vatican the china must surely represent the final frontier u.k. see the pope is going everywhere and bracing everybody. certain to say that many time you don't see much good effect for or that ever

would happen in cuba any improvement in cuba well the united states and cuba established diplomatic relations the catholic church helped to bring about the downfall of communism in poland of value the influence of the world makes only makes different things because they are sold different so different now i really i'm amazed what could the holy see do to put the united states and cuba together i really can't understand. they can reconcile only if they have interest if they both gain anything now is easy surely not because of the holy see now he cannot give anything cannot promise anything and the holy father to police two brothers. and i doubt even though they were converted by the

pope. he didn't see much against oppression of the dissidents now to captivate the goodwill of china the pope is abstaining from say anything against the chinese. but if the pope and she jingping eventually meet surely that's a good thing isn't it rather than having the pope criticize china isn't it better for the pope and cheating to find some way or working together i don't believe those things do you fear the pope is selling out underground catholics in china for sure it's not easy money to to sell. anybody but if now we don't have any any direct information so we

are completely in the dark but from the pieces. of things which leaked out from those information what we know and we suppose to happen now is really selling out of the church do you feel that you couldn't must be you must believe that me a seventy years in china i mean spending six months a year in china for seven years meeting all kinds of government people all kinds of bishops' then you came have impression of how easter slavery and the commies region. the communist party has changed so if they've lifted half a billion people out of poverty there is a growing middle class now and of people a wealthy who are the more they have been ever before no no no the important thing for them is the party they just want to control everything they can give you what

they like you to give you now just an example of what is allowed by the law they can refuse you what is denied by the law they can grant you what do you worry about if the vatican the stuff pushes a representative office in beijing which is a possibility to use these things the a disaster we are facing a disaster indeed of which a church those bad elements those who really have no faith but they are just on the side of the government for their interests those people now are happy because in these last ten years they did all sorts of things defiance to the holy see now they are will be rewarded

the good people in the open church they must be very much disappointed because they feel betrayed here because they are waiting for the holy see to give them courage but now the obvious you can do it in these years always encourage surrender everywhere so now they just give up their hope now is to find the world with no agreement they still can hope for a change but none no change no use to legitimize asian of a wrong situation but but very probably many people from the integral. is this an issue do you think that could divide. on a wider level outside of china i think many people in university church make

it discuss. it may do is to faith in the pope that the poor pope has so many critics already read this one i'm a bit in saudi. and the saudi thank you very much. if you. love south america.

i mean this is different whether someone telling someone it's very. true i think it's how you approach. it is a certain way of doing it. by story and die out. volcano kill way erupted explosively last thing boiling clouds of steam ash and rock high into the atmosphere scientists say it's not unusual for eruptions to stop and start

up again later as for kill away a it has been spilling lava continually for more than thirty years native hawaiian spiritual beliefs say eruptions reflect the mood of the goddess. as native hawaiians family is always nice to us whether she thinks our home or not we accept this type of event. when diplomacy fields and fear sweeps in borders are wide open wide open to drugs terrorists we've proven that barriers are built to impose division to sixty's instead of being an ox to could to atone wastes into became another of obstacle to peace in a four part series al-jazeera revisits the reasons for divisions in different parts of the world and the impact they have on both sides walls of shame on al-jazeera.

talk.