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tv   Up Front 2018 Ep 17  Al Jazeera  October 13, 2018 5:33pm-6:00pm +03

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pushes the stories they're listening posts on al-jazeera. did the saudi government abducted and murder a saudi journalist on foreign soil and if so will there be any consequences. i'm mad the house and the un's panel on climate change issued a dramatic report this week saying the world could see a global climate crisis as early as twenty forty but how do you get the u.s. to take it seriously when the president is a climate change denier loss gina mccarthy the former head of the u.s. environmental protection agency under president obama but first saudi journalist and government critic joe marcus shogi has been missing since october the second last seen when he went into the saudi consulate in istanbul turkey believe he was killed by agents of his own government inside the consulate and had his body
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possibly dismembered astonishing and horrific allegations but will saudi crown prince mohammed bin some on faith and consequence. joining me now to discuss the disappearance and possible murder of jamal khashoggi a foreign policy analyst author and journalist rula jebreal who wrote the recent cover story for newsweek on the saudi crown prince and sarah leah whitson executive director of the middle east and north africa division of human rights watch at the moment of course saudi government officials refused to appear on al-jazeera and other well known defenders of the saudi government who we approached took participate in the show declined our invitation sara thanks for joining me out front before we begin i'd like to play a clip from an episode of upfront that aired earlier this year in which i asked jamal why you chose a life in the united states. because i don't want to be understood i don't want to be. of some other order. that he has more position and
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man doesn't have a position he doesn't have to probably burn scars. in a gun is done more of the people most of the intellectuals most of the people in jail today support for. jamal khashoggi are not from a few months ago and it's quite hard to see that clip and listen to his voice given what we are being told has happened to him the washington post where jamal khashoggi writes a column is reporting this week that u.s. intelligence has worked out that the crown prince of saudi arabia n.b.s. mohamed been some on quote ordered an operation to lure jamal back to the country and then detain him the turkish government say that he was killed inside the consulate in istanbul by a saudi hit team and had his body dismembered rula what do you believe happened to your friend jamal. i believe that how much been solomon is capable of what he's stands accused off off kidnapping however the u.s.
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intelligence should have warned jamal it's also there is a lot of blame to put also on us media i believe jamal of arrest has lived daily to tell the truth to tell all of us what was going on in saudi arabia and what this crown prince stands for what some media did it's basically for people to the propaganda of this crown prince that he was there unless he's a reformer and a moderate and a liberal in the words of tom friedman and the economist and others yeah it's outrageous we have an obligation there's a journalistic integrity and then just in this case it was betrayed totally and they fail spectacularly it's unmitigated disaster what this all of this had caused in the middle east and for americans and especially for people who have no interest like except telling the truth and informing the public opinion so you document human rights abuses for
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a living you have to distinguish between facts and fiction between credible reporting and conspiracy theories a lot of people are saying how could we know for sure what happened inside a consulate in istanbul given the prime source of information is the turkish government which has its own issues with the saudi government which of course doesn't have a great record when it comes to its own journalists who it looks up at record rates well the main reason that we can know one thing very concretely is that obviously we're not just relying on what the turkish government has said we are relying on the testimony of his fiance whom i spoke with on the day on which disappeared into the consulate while she was still at the consulate we have the video showing entering the consulate and actually what we don't have. is any evidence that he ever left so despite the saudi denials they claim that this c.c.t.v. wasn't working all of them switched on or something that day which is highly
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convenient the evidence that he interred and did not leave the consulate of his own accord there is no dispute about that that is an established fact what we don't know of course what happened to him inside what we have is a lot of suspicious circumstantial evidence and his continued disappearance that sadly indicate that. was killed. but sara if i may add something maddy the turks immediately aware then a day they start talking about a martyr inside the consulate how do they know that we know for a fact who ever covered the middle east that any embassy and any consulate as high as bugged by nation hall hosting those consulates so they even went as far the turks to say that they're willing to go inside their rooms with her in sick experts to tell in which room he was butchered and is a member and plus we have this evidence about these two flights coming in today
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with a squad with a team who most of them were identified and the pictures are outside the names are outside and most of them work for security apparatus of the saudi royal family why were there there and that day why did they enter the embassy in that day why did the leave in that day what did they do inside all of these questions need to be answered most u.s. senators came out saying we need to put sanctions and apply for the first time outside of russia the global magnetic sea act which is accountability for violators of human rights of human rights and i think that's a huge precedent sorry you were on the show with jamal and i'll be on the show a few months ago on the show jamal made it very clear that he was a member of the opposition he wasn't even calling for elections or democracy or he wanted to do was be able to write some pieces about the saudi economy saudi
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politics the future on the n.b.s. without being censored or restricted that it was a very low bar that it was all m.b.a.'s to me and the yen mohamed been sold on m.b. as the saudi crown prince it looks like you can't even tolerate them oldest of dissent from an establishment saudi figure general was not some anti establishment revolutionary was he the crown prince wants only one opinion expressed and that's congratulations we love you crown prince anything else a suspect and so this has. being in an unprecedented concentration of power in the hands of one person in saudi arabia he has crushed wales who might have used different from him he's crossed independent journalists or media that might have opinions different from him and of course activists writers journalists scholars just to be clear even by saudi standards you're saying this crown prince the defacto ruler is authoritarian and controlling and dictatorial that's what you're saying well it's i would even say i would even say revolutionary because i think he
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has called two of the bluffs that saudi arabia and saudi arabian analysts have long used to understand and explain saudi arabia one is that it rules by consensus that all of the royals have a voice in how their country is run and that's actually why things operate very slowly in saudi arabia because it's built on consensus he eradicated that by jailing morals who might have any opposition to his plans and second that the saudi government relies on the support of the religious establishment he's also knocked that pillar out let me ask you this rule joe ball in his washington post columns which are said to have annoyed the crown prince and his advisors so much this platform he had in the u.s. in english and in arabic he compared. to. the supreme leader and to vladimir putin the president of russia you and some others in recent days have compared to
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gadhafi do you think that is now a label that is going to stick in western circles where m.b.'s has been so popular up until now. look also that the saudis deserve better i think way that people in america or people around the world we deserve better in terms of journalistic standards that the way we covered the is tyrants but above all we deserve better from these governments. as well you know we have a problem they buy a lot off a hardware weapon areas so how can we it would be bad for business well it's bad for america's standing on america's values it's bad for all of us what he's saying his president trump has endorsed saying the idea that you and program and rebranding it all full of food in this case cheap oil for. impunity for does not change i never knew when i sat nav are you one that i think we know i mean i don't know if trump will change but he will be forced to change by
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the public opinion and that's why it's important to keep the pressure on the public opinion this is not even gadhafi this is combined of gadhafi and i would say saddam hussein together this is gaddafi on steroids however it's worth some depth because he has billions of dollars to spend and the u.s. p.r. on lobbying and buying consensus and this is where the dangerous lie you a human rights watch of obviously spent a lot of time calling on governments to do something about human rights abuses in places like saudi arabia and western governments tend to you know you because of the oil deals in the commercial deals that right now though you do have mike pence . you have marco rubio rand paul republican right wing so that is coming out and saying you know this is not acceptable if this is true the need to be called do you think we're going to see some kind of sea change in the u.s. relationship with saudi arabia over what has happened to. you know two days ago i
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would have said no however. recent bipartisan letter demanding answers demanding an invest. ation and threatening sanctions with the citation of the act is a bit of a surprise that a pleasant one i would say because clearly this time saudi has really triggered the red lines of unacceptable conduct even in our broken dysfunctional government here in the united states and so it's remarkable that m.p.'s has actually managed to bring together our dysfunctional senate and senators to act in a unified voice to demand accountability and promise sanctions which is what they should be doing so it's actually heartening but rula let me put this to you as much as we're glad that western governments the u.s. government is taking interest in this case and in the fate of jamal khashoggi and asking for an investigation asking for questions to be able to isn't this
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a little bit depressing that it required the disappearance and possible murder of poor job for u.s. senators and a vice president u.s. media to some tom friedman to suddenly say oh there's a problem and what about the war in yemen still going on regardless of what's happened what about all the other people sarah mentioned have been detained and tortured and disappeared in saudi arabia yes it's depressing disheartening however i would never forget the words of course who used to say that the one of the most important tools to fight human rights violations and violate terrorists is to shut lights on what they're doing their actions their deeds not what they're saying for the first time we're seeing this is implemented however there are many lines were crossed after mohamed bin solomon kidnapped the prime minister hariri and and for some to resign after he bombed an entire country and on caused
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a humanitarian catastrophe after even he bombed i believe two months ago a school bus in yemen killing four to children however i think in this case it touches us very close. model was working for us are going to say she was a u.s. residence and knew many of the people who wrote that was a former sarah last question to you knew jamal well you spoke to his fiance shortly afterwards when he walked into that consular. do you think he knew how big the risk was that he was taking. i don't know i think he had been given assurances before the prior week when he had gone to the consulate to request this document and they told him to come back i think he believes that his contacts in turkey with both saudi government representatives and the turkish government additional measure of security. and sometimes we believe what we want to believe and what jamal
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wanted was. difficult attesting to his divorce so that he could marry his fiance and start a new life. and you know love sometimes makes us to take risks that we wouldn't otherwise take and that's that's the best way i can think of that is what was speaking when he walked into that consulate we'll have to leave it there the saudis say they did not commit never of i want to believe the saudi government more sarah leah whitson rula jebreal thanks for joining me on up front thank you marty. a record number of women are running for office in the united states this year in this week's reality check up from producer elizabeth walsh explains why this is still enough to close the political gender go. remember that millions of people around the world stood up for women's rights after donald trump was sworn into office oh this yourself.
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while momentum has emboldened nearly six hundred women to run for office in the united states more than ever before this year a record number of women are running for office women candidates are breaking all kinds of records it's impressive it's progress but actually the united states still trails behind most other countries women represent fifty one percent of the american population that make up less than twenty percent of the u.s. congress why are so few women elected if the political system on. unlike more gender equal nations that have embraced contemporary voting systems the us still has winner takes all elections which give enormous power to incumbents who are primarily white candidates without personal support on the home front or career flexibility disproportionately women from running and let's not forget that it's only female politicians who must deal with sexism it's not just the campaign trail erratic work schedules low pay rates geographic distance and unfair leadership
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selection process these make serving a challenge for many women so how have countries like sweden and costa rica succeeded while for one thing they've embraced more modern and more democratic voting systems that make it easier for women and minorities to get elected they've also introduced family friendly hours to the legislative workplace and designated an equal number of leadership roles within their parliaments to women and they actively recruit women today for the countries of the world you see some type of electoral quota for their parliament not sound of quotas you should be studies show they help to weed out incompetent man. more women in government is good for everyone experts found that women direct anywhere between twenty percent and hundred percent more spending to their voters they sponsor more legislation and female members are more likely than male members to take on committee assignments that reflect the interests and amounts of their districts sounds refreshing
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particularly given the u.s. congress is miserable approval rating of seventeen percent blearily women get stuff done maybe it's time the united states stopped holding them by. the u.s. government to problem climate change published a report earlier this week which was the less we went. to the global economy the world could experience severe food shortages extreme weather conditions and the displacement of millions of people in just twenty years but with the united states on the voting to leave the power is climate. agreement rollback environmental regulations and increase fossil fuel usage is it even possible to avert the coming climate disaster joining me to discuss this is gina mccarthy former head of the u.s. environmental protection agency the e.p.a. under barack obama gina thanks for joining me on outfront. great to be here mary thank you jeanne of the i.p.c.c. is dramatic report this week says we have just twelve years until twenty thirty to
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make unprecedented changes to prevent catastrophic climate chaos does that timeline from the i.p.c.c. surprise you did it shock you. well i think there were there was news here one was that no longer are we looking for a two degree goal we're looking for a one point five degree goal that means it's going to be steeper and hotter and have to be faster they're doing that because they're already seeing that we're experiencing some catastrophic problems already we cannot afford the luxury of thinking that we can keep emitting carbon pollution and to allow us to get to a two degree world it's just not going to be sustainable but the other thing it did is it said that we have the scientific knowledge we have the technical capacity and we have the financial capacity to be able to address this what were essential a lacking is political will and that could stem from people not making the demands on the government and it can also i think provide us an opportunity now to speak
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with a bigger voice in a louder voice we need action now the i.p.c.c. report says quote there is no documented historic precedent for the scale of the action needed now to limit global warming to one point five degrees celsius and when you have a recent study showing that one hundred corporations just one hundred corporations are responsible for seventy one percent of the global greenhouse gas emissions since the one nine hundred eighty eight that suggests that this is systemic that suggests that the economic system needs to be changed root and branch if we're going to stop climate chaos well the only thing i know that changes systems is demand from people more broadly and more loudly than we're demanding it today that's what i want to have happen i don't disagree with you in some ways if we can identify the major shifts in systems we need that we haven't really did to tackle it and you say you know the developers need to be agreed but what are the demands
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for do you agree or do you disagree with people like naomi klein the author and activist or kevin anderson deputy director of the tyndall center for climate change research in the u.k. who say that it's basically capitalism versus the planet right now. well i don't you know that's a that's even a broader systemic issue than i think we need to tackle today let's let's think about the fact that we have solutions on the table today that if we more broadly put those out and provide the right incentives we can make change happen i think the us in a capitalistic society can find ways of generating market based strategies that have the kind of broad impact that we need so i don't think it's the form of government it's the ability for people to speak to government demand leadership that is going to make solutions happen today and invest in the kind of solutions we need over the long term but the reality is the president of the united states right now is basically a climate change denier who thinks climate change is
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a chinese hoax who is response to the i.p.c.c. report was to ask who drew it surely it's a disaster for climate change efforts but he's the president of the united states the country historically responsible for most carbon emissions at this moment in history look at you not going to have me defending president trump i know what he did in terms of announcing getting out of paris was against the science it was against the law it was a decision that didn't recognize our moral responsibility here but in the united states you can continue to make progress at the local level you can continue to make progress at the city level at the state at the regional level now do i think we're where we need to be i wish i did i know we're not but that doesn't mean that we're all going to sit around and wait for president trump to tell the rest of the world that the u.s. is not going to participate we are going to participate people are stepping up and
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we're going to do the best we can so you served under a previous leader your old boss president obama did take climate change seriously and got plaudits for signing on the u.s. to the paris climate agreement in twenty fifteen rightly so some of his supporters say you'll be remembered at least in a sec. couldn't turn if not his first of the climate president but it was also under obama's watch that oil production rose at the fastest rate in the hundred fifty year history of the u.s. oil industry and he also presided over the highest us not true gas production levels in history well i mean clearly we didn't control everything because that's not actually what the government has an ability to do but i think this president said all the right signals about the importance of climate i think he turned at least to a great record in the second half of his administration on actions to take is there more to do do we have to now deal with the fact that natural gas was one of the transition fuel of the bridge fuel that got us away from coal yes it is now do we
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have to deal with natural gas we sure do so the challenges remain but the fact that he provided leadership domestically in the u.s. and internationally is undeniable in his you personal commitment. was important for the world james hansen i'm sure you know the legendary former nasa scientist who brought climate change to the world's attention thirty years ago he says in an upcoming book the president obama quote failed miserably on climate change and oversaw policies that were quote late ineffectual and politics would you say to. well i mean i think he's a great scientist but i think it's very hard it always to get scientists to understand that there is a system in which policies get made and decisions get made i'm not denying the science but translating science into political will is a difficult thing and i believe we have failed to broaden the engagement to human beings to make them understand that it's not about polar bears it's not about ice
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sheets it's about them to family and our collective future when researchers from mit and the university of chicago came out in twenty sixteen and said quote if the pulse thirty five years is any guide the world is likely to be awash in fossil fuels for decades perhaps even centuries to come that's the reality isn't it and that's why it's hard to be optimistic when it comes to tackling this existence from globe which i just hauled all of this is very difficult but you know i'm sixty four years old the world is no where near what it used to be thirty five years ago and it was and it's going to be remarkably changed in the next twenty because that's what science is demanding and that's what we have to produce low carbon future as a future that's healthier that safer where our national security is protected and where individuals can have the kind of clean air and water that they need to survive that's our only choice that's the future we need to run to not be afraid to
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embrace jim acosta i hope you're right thanks for joining me from it's great to be embedded thank you but so show up front will be back next week. since its inception in one thousand nine hundred sixty one the kuwait fund has been supporting people's livelihoods in over one hundred countries by funding projects in an array of sectors. ranging from infrastructure to health and education. these initiatives ultimately help to eradicate poverty. and promote sustainable development.
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to. fight. whether online or humanitarian. or if you join us on the set. no one has a back story like this is a dialogue i'm just tired of seeing negative stereotypes about native americans everyone has a voice. and that's the comments here i'll do my best to bring them into the cell join the global conversation.
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and live from studio. headquarters and i mean there's a problem with a new square to donald trump as severe punishment a saudi arabia is found to be behind the disappearance of journalist. and a high level delegation from the kingdom is now in the turkish capital. but turkey says the cooperation in the we will be live in istanbul and washington.

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