the saudi leadership was killed soon after entering the saudi consulate in istanbul on october second claims the kingdom calls of baseless lies turkish officials still haven't been allowed into the consulate to investigate those pressure on saudi mounts several u.s. media organizations and business leaders have pulled out of a major investment conference in riyadh what was dubbed devil's in the desert is supposed to promote saudi crown prince mohammed bin simons reform vision for the kingdom the financial times bloomberg c.n.n. new york times and reporters from the economist and see n.b.c. wall now not to be going the c.e.o.'s of viacom one of the founders of a.o.l. have also said they won't be attending other business leaders are reassessing their ties with saudi arabia richard branson founder of the virgin group has suspended investment talks in a space venture and involvement in two saudi tourism projects former u.s. energy secretary ernest money is is backing away from bin simon's dream megacity

project neil binns armin's twenty thirty vision seeks to radically change the image of the kingdom but he's under fire over human rights issues economic reforms and foreign policy dozens of rights activists clerics and female campaigners have been detained in recent months last year many saudi princes and business men were arrested accused of corruption some of those released had to pay hefty fines the highly anticipated listing of state all state owned oil giant aramco has been put on hold. and decided saudi forces would join the war in yemen but three years on the fight against the who the rebels continues and the blockade of gaza is still led by saudi arabia splitting the gulf cooperation council and causing regional instability. let's now bring in our guests here in doha khalid al hotter an economist and

researcher at the institute for new economic thinking at the university of cambridge in london a slim chief market analyst at think markets and in washington d.c. herb director of research and analysis at the arab center washington d.c. a warm welcome to you all let me begin with you. that can you just explain to the viewer what the saudi crash means what what how did this happen. it means as the there is a doubt and there is. there is a feeling it and exile and fear in the market were associated with the elevated and certain it associated with the case of. the possible involvement of the saudi government in this case and then the possible repercussion of this on the weather on negative impact on the atmosphere of the investment or economic impact of economic penalties by the west or the i doubt it or even possible change in power

structures or they're out of the this is something really major and there are doubters already existed in the canal in the in the saudi policy we have seen erratic and reckless policy over the recent period from the ritz carlton case to a war in yemen to qatar sank it took a sanction to go around to her recent cancellation over a major project major energy project. solar system solar energy projects over the in my opinion the case is just a major trigger of all of this and can show the war and how the mentality of the a leadership in power right now in saudi arabia and how far they can go with their reckless policy crossing or that. barrier of red lines and this is really we put the political part of an economic partner and political allies in very difficult situation we see many of them running away we already have seen it

and trying to distance themselves from the regimes who are the the saudi government is in really not in the chamber that i mean it's in the difficult situation this is very serious and we either they would have to come up with a way to come up out clean out of this or to you or we might see a change in power structure or a change in in political and economic policy and do what is more reform more opening up. with a gun we have a new model i haven't seen this so far let me just bring in a slum here looking at this sort of global perspective the markets are clearly jittery but not because of jamal khashoggi death is it more because of the fact that all of these high profile c.e.o.'s have pulled out of what was dubbed in the desert that that's the economic impact or do you think it is because of g.'s death . ledged i must say thanks. thanks i

think when it comes to f.b.i. foreign direct investment what you wanted to have is you want to have a certainty what you cannot tolerate is a stubbornness in any single meant because when the business leaders and everyone else sense that ok we do not have an assurity we do not have a political stability in the country that is the least thing that any investor or any phone wants to see and hence if these news which are becoming a headline apparently to as you correctly pointed out on bloomberg and c n b c but there. are calls for posted so this will become a major concern because the founder of origin money ever or a virgin brand is not something something small if they don't tip on as at these levels decide to ok that we're going to cut ties are we going to scale back from all of other investments that we were pretty planning or intending to do inside eurabia of justice are the stock market is going to have a huge reaction of course it is very normal for a stock market to have

a reaction where nearly eighty two stocks out of eighty six stocks are in a deep negative territory thirty three billion dollar is the literally vite of the the stock market today but we have seen this movie over a nover in different parts of the world because panic when the traders are similar in it where on the back of these such headlines these kind of reactions are very normal what we wanted to see is is the sergeant arabia coming up and then saying ok look we are going to resolve this matter with other political mints but i wanted to point out one important element overhead because just the u.s. or the president trump administration is coming up and saying that we going to have a very strong reaction about this they are not talking to a country which does. hold

a major commodity we i mean i am what i would say i hate to bring this up one thousand nine hundred seventy three oil embargo is an im very important example here where sergeant arabia retaliated against the us yes the situation isn't the same because us is producing more than ten million barrel a day but to answer your question very precise the uncertainty for f.d.r. is the worst thing that can happen to any country that's a really important point the seventy three oil embargo is a very important point let me bring in. it was used as a political tool to put pressure on the u.s. now u.s. president donald trump is very clearly said there will be repercussions but what can the u.s. president really do to saudi arabia seems to be holding a lot of the business cards his shoulders. yes ordinary beer is holding a lot of the business cards the problem is that. i i'm sorry but i don't

tribute they would much credence with the president or president don't trump says you're we are what we're talking about a person who is who prefers you know anybody coming and investing in the united states buying weapons buying whatever it is. over or repercussions overseas things of that nature i have a feeling that the man is just simply sewing for some time he wants to buy some time to see how things may change i i on the other hand don't see anything really changing this event is a major political event not only an economic event and the problem is that you know what saudi arabia is able to do whether it is able to do the one nine hundred seventy three thing to redo nine hundred seventy three is a to me is doubtful saudi arabia has not had the economic transformation that. you know

a vision twenty thirty or any other plans have indicated so it's still dependent on selling oil if it doesn't sell the oil it's not going to have revenue let's talk about. anybody right now let me bring in call it a hotline what impact will this have on his grand plan to stop saudi arabia relying on oil i think they with regard to the you know this is a sign of the failure of the vision the vision already has suffered from many of critiques and it has been it's reinforced the dollars about the vision about the sustainability and about the credibility and the sustainability of the solid economic policy. to me my my my many economists not just by me to me i am already pessimistic about this because it does not address the real issue that he issue in saudi arabia what the then the need that the citizen needs a home health. education employment you're talking about the highest

inflation is there is a twenty percent in the with so the people of the saudi arabia these days they don't need to be a city they don't project they don't need to dig a canal and qatar which we with a lot of money it's infeasible anyway economically or politically. the many add that observe asian on the vision with regard to their negative impact on the labor market in the private sector and the method in which the tax was implemented if i tell you from my own sources what i hear that there are many businessmen and saudi arabia trying to get their money out these days due to fear of being confiscated thought if you are you are not creating the right atmosphere that i'm via adamant to attracts if the. investment is very important and the hush of any event is a major trigger as a major target it's something is there an end in the in the mentality of the

leadership the young leadership are there that we will see a change in order to find a way to get the government hands clean out of this order twill be a serious disaster a serious is also let me bring in a muslim here when you're on your trading floor when you're looking at all your screens the bloomberg screen the terminal and you're doing all of your financial analysis when you're looking at the numbers when it relates to the grand vision for twenty thirty do those numbers add up to you can saudi arabia. loosen its reliance on oil and develop this vision all is it like a solid the heart of saying it's a bit of a dream because actually they're not addressing the real issues in saudi arabia which are unemployment amongst the youth which are you know much more structural problems back at home. lake one three are discussing the structural problems they do not go overnight it takes

a long period of time for these structural and cyclical changes to happen and one of the national tests that m.b.a.'s taken was bringing diverse in science as you pointed out but rather that concept can stay there whether they can sustain that credibility this is the huge question because we are talking about middle east or here we are talking about you either like dubai on one hand qatar on the other side side arabia on the other side they all know one thing very clearly or iran. leave the iran out for the time being because it doesn't have the same position but we all know one thing very clearly that we cannot rely on oil hands m.p.'s said ok we want to change our economic dependence by going into foreign direct by investing into bigger funds and then perhaps do some sort of a format was scandinavian countries have done and then drive the revenue through that way that wouldn't happen overnight that will take enormous amount of

a time but a clear geo political instability like this is absolutely critical for the country and like you would not see any investors feeling comfortable when they do not feel that ok i can redraw my funds i can pull out of a country i have my freedom of speech or any of these elements you do not want to do that because if n.b.s. is really serious in changing the view about us hardly arabia how the outside world see he got to show some sustainable results he got to show some important and solid results of that by having a stubborn behavior is not the way the decider arabia can do we know the recent spat between saudi arabia and canada and i was just over some few tile point whatever that is a really important point for him let me just let me. stalky that's a very important point i want to bring in and that her bit. name just said the

saudis have a stubborn attitude which is stopping them from developing a political response to all of this is that sad what. you know is stubborn at it you it is you can describe it as a stubborn attitude but then again you know all governments act in that sense were they feel that they are sovereign and they do not want to be interfered with which is which is you know a very very fair point the problem is you know why are we here i mean that that same government that is rejecting any interference in its affairs is really making really major mistakes i mean since. the beginning of twenty fifteen zero one kings oman. rose to the throne and brought along his son with him you know so terribly has made really some serious better various leaders mistakes and no reckoning so far you know for how long will saudi arabia keep going with with this

considering that none of it worked and all of it costs a lot of money i mean in saudi arabia is in yemen alone it pays probably like you know i think the figure is like five to seven billion a month on on it war that that is that going anywhere you know they're out of certain other things that the saudi government politically speaking needs to do to make a serious effort to try to change the atmosphere surrounding everything that it's deliberate how they have a head that's from inside and to the political reckoning a political reckoning our guest says combining together the cost of the war in yemen. around i.p.o. being put on hold. all of the problems that the crown princess had with trying to get everybody get everybody to go alongside with him and then the siege of qatar. all of this in combination is saudi arabia now a bad investment yes i think it's i think we might see

a. pressure by drawing attention to saudi arabia and to that it might have some positive result that you cannot get away with all of this on the west cannot keep close an eye on it as it's gone because over political and economic interest we might see drawing attention to the record in here because in human right and. political dissident an opinion over speech and press we might see less of that hopefully in the future so there could be some positive side into this a story let me bring in a muslim here we have a situation where investors are clearly jittery about saudi arabia as a country to put money into. a lot of things seem to be happening very quickly a lot of investors are making one snap decision i guess or has this been

a long time coming is saudi arabia seen as being always being a risky investment but the risk was always worth it. i don't know if the risk is always worth it i think it depends on the administration to your answer that and to provide that. platform because if you want to attract investment you need to have a quality labor and talent how do you attract talent because you provide them stay belletti you provide them a different opportunity if it out that you cannot do it and that m.b.a.'s did recently go into silicon valley by far i applaud that because i thing none of the other saudi officials that i know of have done anything like that where they've met the c.e.o. of deformities of big big corporations and then trying to convince them to bring those investments or their research hubs back in saudi arabia and then this is what i was saying earlier there is a huge sort of a competition going on between the countries and qatar by far has

a very very lenient rules because it's providing residency is providing a lot of government support for a new startups which if we are talking about it is all about ai it is all about green energy it is all about fame tech who is going to do that the most efficient way who's going to bring the most amount of the research labs within these. among these countries would be the winner because we know the fossil fuel isn't the answer anymore the only answer is to divert the development in the fin tech space and over in the u.k. just comparing a similar situation if you look at the bracks it and everything else if the u.k. loses that talent because of the brags that everyone else is going i'm talking about the unstable ety element which is right there in saudi arabia now while saudi arabia didn't does doesn't have that talent but is trying to attract that talent so with the with the presence of that and stability it was suffer more let me bring in emma her hair listen listening to all of our guest talk about the economic side of

this there has to be a way out of the saudis politically what will politically calm the markets calm the international community what will what are the options for saudi arabia. listen there are there are many options i mean you know there are those who or i believe it's just too extreme to work to try to ask for a complete change of leadership in saudi arabia this is a legitimate ruler it's the king needs to be make some. you know some some really serious decisions including including his crown prince and including but visors around his crown prince i mean you know this is for the saudis to determine i mean there will nobody can really be that they'll saudi arabia hey this is the sovereign issue you know while we want to interfere and no i think saudi arabia

should decide on this but then again saudi arabia should be there are very very smart think capable people in the royal family and in the saudi echelon of power so you know there are many many important things that can be done you know you could do you can you know lift up the ban on expression in saudi arabia you can open up to the world you can say hey listen but there are certain things that we need to do to guard in yemen you know understandably yemen is a very very important strategic issue for saudi arabia but you know going to war in yemen against the very very poor country it's it's just. shouldn't happen it shouldn't be there are political ways of dealing with this issue. the affair is very very to me i'm sorry to say it but it's a very shameful affair shameful let me just don't see that because we are running out of time and i would like another alsa from from all three of you give me mr

khalid al fatah in thirty seconds will you think is the way out for saudi arabia if there is indeed one that you think they can take if i tell you before serious political reform and economic reform to reinforce economic and social stability first and foremost and then this hopefully will lead to economic and political instability and sustainability of the regime otherwise there is no way out you know muslim thirty seconds walk. the saudi government has advice. it's a stop provide more stability on its border by stopping all the wars with the neighboring countries that would promote the entire state political element in the middle east and side arabia would attract a lot of investment just because of that and him of her thirty seconds if you were advising the saudi government right now. liberalize a domestic front allow people to say what they want to say that will that will tell

the world that you are ready for a good investment you're ready for you know we're coming forward for review serious reform because you know no country can really develop if this these things keep happening in saudi arabia so there we have it we seem to be developing a narrative of that this is a very serious perhaps the most serious situation saudi arabia face both politically and economically let me just ask one very quick question to you khalid al hunt that was the idea of the economic locating in scott that all of this sort of stuff is clearly had an impact on you personally do you see a way of a climbdown when it comes to the relations between saudi arabia and qatar within the region can never get back to normal what they mean then the relations between saudi arabia and qatar get back to normal yes of course everything is possible if there is a will and that is a good intention it is possible. good intentions well thank you to all our guests.

thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is a.j. inside story for me i'm wrong come on in the whole team here bye for now.

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al-jazeera. hello and welcome to the al-jazeera news hour live from my headquarters in doha libyan is a problem coming up in the next sixty minutes if as they say. this terrible murder didn't happen then where is. the u.k. france and germany apply more pressure on saudi arabia to explain the disappearance of journalists jamal khashoggi as the political stakes for the kingdom brought is the saudis stock market drop sharply and more potential investors pull out of a major conference and. ambassadors a summoned to an emergency bricks at me saying at headquarters in brussels non-porous with all your sports its first blood to the houston astros against the boston red sox as the defending champions win game in the race to reach baseball's

world series. france the u.k. and germany have issued a joint statement demanding transparency over the disappearance of sol the journalist jamal khashoggi they say a credible investigation is needed to establish what happened and identify responsible. or none of us know what happened but we're all extremely concerned about the stories that are merged in the country that can help us get to the bottom of this is saudi arabia so what happens from now on is absolutely up to saudi arabia they must have seen the huge international concern from the united states now from britain france and germany what they need to do is to cooperate fully with the investigation that the turks are asking us to do and to get over this if as

they say this this terrible murder didn't happen then where is jamal khashoggi well it is now twelve days since it was last seen walking into the south of the consulate in istanbul and despite an offer by crown prince mohammed bin said mom to sell these still haven't allowed to you should investigate and into the compound earlier saudi arabia warned that it would retaliate against any penalties imposed over the case that is after u.s. president donald trump threatened severe punishment of the kingdom was responsible for crucial g.'s alleged murder the threat of engine ash and punitive action against riyadh has sent the saw the stock market into a tailspin it fell seven percent on sunday its biggest drop in for he is now saudi arabia appears to have softened its tone as the embassy in the u.s. has tweeted to help clarify recently issued cell the statement that came in the saudi arabia extends its appreciation to all including the u.s.

administration for refraining from jumping to conclusions on the on going investigation let's go to our correspondent mike hanna now he is joining us live from washington d.c. it is a completely different tone from the saudi embassy where you are mike to what was said by the saudi press agency in the kingdom itself ah the saudis in damage control here. well it would appear they are attempting to dampen down the tension as you said that was a ferocious so message issued via the saudi news agency overnight in which it said that there would be retaliation global retaliation by saudi arabia should sanctions be exercised against it by other countries now we have this tweet from the saudi embassy here in the u.s. thanking the u.s. and others for not jumping to conclusions at his port certainly the relationship between the u.s. and saudi arabia immensely fraught we heard earlier president trump threatening

punishment should be proven complicit in the disappearance of jamal khashoggi this situation then followed by the saudi response so clearly a deterioration in relations but for president trump a complicated situation deeply complicated on the one hand he says he does not want to fly economic sanctions insisting he says that the u.s. would suffer more than saudi arabia should that happen but congress is making absolutely clear that it will want sanctions among other measures introduced we heard in the course of the day from a senior republican senator marco rubio saying that sanctions on absolutely essential as are other measures should saudi complicity be proven and the last time we heard from president trump like he was saying that he would call the saudis king some on that was either yesterday or today do we have any idea when that will

happen. well there hasn't been any movement on that president did indeed say that during one of his many news conferences in the course of the day saying that he would be speaking to the saudi king no information from the white house as to whether that call has taken place or indeed when it will take place if it is going to the president trump has prided himself on his relationship with saudi arabia remembering that was his first international trip up to being inaugurated as president and he has in the months since then use that as a triumph of his administration arguing that the relationship with saudi arabia is something that would benefit both countries and very much one of the four marks of his first eighteen months in office well now you've got a situation where relations deteriorating sharply president trumped by end as it were between congress on the one hand urging extreme action and people who he

defined as close and very warm allies before the disappearance of jamal khashoggi mike thank you very much for that for now that is mike hanna with the latest from washington d.c. let's go now to our correspondent john and child who has more on the investigation from istanbul. opposite these how do you consulates there is a company that deals with issuing visas that's the larger and smaller pilgrimage that muslims make to saudi arabia now this company as well as a few others that are scattered around the building say that they are still able to process those paperworks by going to the consulates building albeit they have to answer from in the back there is a road parallel to this building behind now this consulate has essentially been a crime scene now for several days since the disappearance of jamal khashoggi however there hasn't been any turkish police and the only people who've been going

in this door here have been those who come on diplomatic vehicles registered to the mission here there are journalists who have been camped out here for several days now waiting for some sort of developments as far as the investigation is concerned other turks are still waiting to be allowed in to search this properly they want their forensic experts to go in there police to go when they need saudi permission to do that till now though they haven't been granted it's. takes a closer look at the economic fallout. the largest stock market in the middle east suffered its biggest fall for four years within hours of donald trump ramping up the pressure on the saudis the to dowell in the saudi capital riyadh fell almost seven percent as it opened on sunday morning that wiped out all its gains made this year before recovering to close three and a half percent down we're going to get to the bottom of it and there will be severe punishment investors reacted to the warnings by donald trump who's made it clear

that the kingdom will be severely punished if it's behind the disappearance and apparent murder of washington post contributor jamal khashoggi to a saudi arabia rejects both the accusations of involvement and threats of punishment and is promising to retaliate against any sanctions with bigger ones of its own to seems to be more questions than answers those comments will do little to settle investors' nerves as business leaders and media sponsors take a step back from saudi arabia's so-called reform agenda the president of the world bank is among several influential leaders who've already said they won't attend a key investment conference in riyadh next week dubbed davos of the desert it's aimed everything telling the kingdom into its latest vision for the future but goober's absence may be noticed the most since the saudis have invested billions of dollars in the u.s. right hailing company a lot of big names and a lot of big media organizations have pulled out so does this not this is not good

on the whole basis of the vision twenty thirty the very forward looking economic policy to bring saudi arabia we need it off oil bring it into the twenty first century really depends on working with foreign partners and getting investment in that i don't think that will pull out completely but right now.