no but of course this will raise questions that the saudis are trying to now make out that it went at a very different way then we have a different situation emerging it would seem that siri certainly he wasn't on the list of fifteen who came here he would have been directing operations at the saudis would say i'm assuming and i don't have this t.v. transcript in front of me so i can't give further detail right now but there is another key figure apart from al syria you mention who was in the security services as well he's been sacked and others as well so what was developing is an explanation from the saudi royal household of events as the united states was demanding within seventy two hours that deadline was extended now we're hearing some sort of result from their inquiries no one knew what sort of inquiries were taking place here but obviously these inquiries relates to an investigation in the

royal household itself now king solomon's role in all of this is much more significant it would seem now because the source many sources within saudi certainly dissidents and also some who had connections with the royal household were suggesting that that the king of being really kept away from events say he was confident that his son was making the right sort of reforms he was not so confidence perhaps about his handling of the war in yemen but then this instant incident meant that the that mohammed bin solomon had to brief his father that there was a crisis going on and they had to stand firm over it now will that continue to be the case it remains to be seen that directs links that could be proven between the crown prince and al siri in terms of all syria's leading an operation to. of rendition of that's way they'll probably describe it i would think but

certainly this would seem that is the key to it all is how the turkish prosecutors approach the case what sort of evidence they have whether or not they can make any linkage with the crown prince or whether they just state the facts on the ground was there a fight there's been no mention of that in the audiotapes whatsoever all right thank you very much for now andrew symonds with all the latest in istanbul let's head to patty call hane who is standing by for us in washington and patty so far we had had no proper explanation is no public explanation from the saudis here we have confirmation of what many people already knew what trump authority said. has been killed and some of the senior figures as the were involved suggests that m.d.s. would have the saudi crown prince would have known about this that he would have

played a role in this where might all of these latest lines leave the u.s. response. yeah it took quite a while for them to go he left the consulate he's fine we don't know where he is you know he's dead it was a fight that broke out what we witnessed was really in real time watching the saudis put up these trial balloons ender mentioned in the new york times saying that they were working on a story where they were going to blame these senior officials said that they did it on their own they were trying to get the approval of the who had been solomon but he didn't know anything about that i can tell you when that was first put out there the initial response of these from members of congress was that almost laughable we've seen reports that u.s. intelligence intercepted phone calls from the consulate in turkey to b.s. his direct phone lines to his personal secretary that was during this in the whole thing it's pretty hard for them to pass the smell test with this one if it was let's say an accident then how do you and explain that the fifteen operatives were on the plane before he entered the consulate how do you explain that there was

a forensic scientist there who just happen to have a bone saw and was ready to dismember his body the saudis are trying to give president trump a way to say that this is excusable that this doesn't have to impact the relationship the president has signaled very clearly that he doesn't want to take and he sort of punitive steps against saudi arabia but his tune is starting to change today we're hearing him talk about how he's going to work with members of congress here's why well the president was first it's going to say we don't want to mess up the economic relationship members of congress close allies of the president came out with really fierce language we saw senator lindsey graham saying n.b.s. has to go sending the message on television to saudi that basically there needs to be regime change in their own country and that he's going to more of the extreme spectrum but it's from democrats from republicans it's all over congress they're saying that this is just simply beyond the pale this cannot stand there have to be repercussions many are saying the u.s. has to end its involvement helping saudi arabia. sites in yemen they're not going

to be willing to let this go and it is seems that the administration has heard that message let's hear from the secretary of state mike brown peo earlier today. will certainly consider a wide range of potential responses but i think the important thing to do is that the facts come out when i travel to saudi arabia i met with the king i met with the crown prince a great length of it with foreign ministers you there and made very clear to them that the united states takes this matter very seriously that we don't approve of extra digital killings that we don't approve of that that kind of activity that is it's not something consistent with american values and that is their responsibility as this incident happened in their consulate is their responsibility get to the bottom of this. will so that we have might pump a zero saying that the u.s. doesn't approve of extrajudicial killings that crime conflicts with u.s.

values and here we have the saudis admitting that there was an extrajudicial killing of jamal khashoggi inside that consulate what might what steps might the u.s. take now trump has turned to congress does the focus now shifts to to them. well i think it's important to point out that there's been a lot of reporting that initially within the white house especially with jared kirshner the president's son in law and close ally of m.p.'s his advice was just let it go it's going to pass it was a big deal when the lebanese prime minister disappeared in saudi arabia would children were bombed in yemen it passed this is been the one foreign policy story that is not going away it has been on every cable news channel it has been the headlines of the prominent newspapers the washington post work work the new york times let's not forget who he was he was one of the intellectual elite in this town that is a powerful group and they are not going to let this go with it was an accident if

that's what the saudis are trying to say i think it's important to point out when this is happening it is friday evening here in washington d.c. traditionally if you don't want news to get a big splash you release it at exactly this time on a friday night and i don't know if that's going to go far enough to assuage members of congress other thing to keep in mind there's an election in just about three weeks time and the american people are hearing all about this many already had a pretty low opinion of saudi arabia and this is been a particularly gruesome crime that has been described in. intimate detail here in the united states so we're going to have to wait for a reaction probably won't get any in the next couple of hours but i have to look maybe possibly as far as the sunday shows the president is still speaking tonight he's got a rally out west in just a couple of hours we'll see if you addresses and that seems unlikely he hasn't really been doing that but we'll keep an eye on it we'll keep you posted all right for now thank you very much in washington we can speak to. joins us on the line

from turkey and have here a public explanation from saudi arabia about what took place when jamal khashoggi stepped in. that story that their explanation is that a fight broke out between those present and khashoggi and that that effectively led to his death this would appear to contradict the descriptions that we've been getting from unofficial turkish sources from those old yo recordings what is the response from ankara likely to be. well marian actually everything happened one after the other in the last one hour as we learned from the presidential sources that king cellmark called presidents are drawn as they talk about the importance of the talk of other cars european life the gays in case and the they emphasize the importance of a cooperation and in that respect but however just half an hour later we heard about the dismissals and the hurt that saudis accept that this which is actually

unbelievable because since the beginning the saudi side has been denying that a he was a job i had to do was killed inside or disappeared inside because they were saying that he he got out of this building and later this evening today i learned from her from a high level. her turkish official that they had some security footage from the surrounding sixty cameras which shows a saudi oprah show get yelled out of the consulate building two hours after democracy is entrenched with democracy g.'s clothes on so that is really unbelievable and saudi arabia statements are contradicting each other now they are accepting that he lost his life inside but how are they going to explain that a saudi official went out of this building democracy of just coats on and they were

saying that their cameras were not be courting the consulate cameras were not according to anything probably after turkish authorities said that they have this picture they have to let the turkish officials in for a search inside the consulate and the residence so now people we don't have any reaction because it's. it's it's more it's one am just one am here but in the morning i can assure that people will be discussing that it was this is mohamed bin sounds how. to get away with murder and serious and people people are going to begin discussing how serious a diplomatic relation can be in this way so this is very critical because of the hour we don't have any reaction yet besides except from the information that came from on our drawn headed for talk. tonight but as

a journalist i must say that this is this is an unbelievable thing because everything contradicts what the previous statements and also the security pictures and show just the opposite so. we will wait for the morning for the turkish authorities office to responses and the public opinion and reactions against the statement by saudi arabia. ok and so then in can you tell us what that just tell us about the contact that has been in place of far between king solomon and president because the conversation that they've had today is not this is one of several conversations that they've had since the disappearance and now as we know that the murder of jamal khashoggi. yes exactly they had after they had another cool last sunday actually again discussing about the details it is very important to underline that u.s.

president donald trump is talking to mohammad bill sammon but king salmon is spoken to present our don is talking to king samar we have been also learning from the source of an unquiet that is saudi arabia has sent over to to prince from the royal family in order to negotiate and and to talk about the talk about how she g.'s a case so we know that behind the curtains there are some negotiations the plum i think negotiations are underway but of course i have to remind that saudi consulate general counsel a true who is the he who is the prime suspect in question his investigation of fire besides the fifteen and members squat team has left turkey on the on october sixth and one day off there is that. the council. in the general counsel laid it also left

a stumble because they have diplomatic immunity but we also know that there is a backdoor diplomacy ongoing they have been talking and turkey was trying to turkey has been trying to take it slow in order to collect the evidences and in order not to harm the ongoing investigation judiciary process was of course the saudi admission that. to the man who. was killed inside and is the consummate it is a game changer in fact and everybody now i mean who are of economic journalists are curious how turkish government is going to react to mu morning and we know that unofficial turkish soul says has been leaking information from audio recordings about about what took place when jamal khashoggi entered the saudi consulate what what are the chances of this point that the actual that the source of that

information that the audio recordings themselves which clearly exist which are extremely detailed are going to be officially and published. well we have to actually because a very important question actually and all of the diplomatic side all parties including not to states european countries they are all waiting for these evidences and but however until now they haven't been to leave yet but as far as i have learned from high level turkish officials it's an eleven minutes recording that they have and it begins. according to what they told me as damascus trip to enter is inside the consulate he has been assaulted by other saudi saudi officers inside and there was a huge brawl and it was all along in eleven minutes but of course it is difficult to explain more and gets more details because this is

a very sensitive very special case everybody in the judiciary and security are trying to be very careful in order not to harm the credibility of the evidence is so probably it is the only option that turkish officials revealed the huge recordings or five that to the other countries i don't know what to say about this because really a as a journalist here in istanbul local journalists and foreign journalists system our question is also follows we have been following this case very closely but it is really surprising from saudi arabia to hear that he just died during the fighting marian but of course it is not it is not i cannot tell the turkish authorities are going to reveal any voice recordings because they turkey's foreign ministers stated that turkey has never shared any worse according to evidence with

the compare or united states and probably will not be willing to share on till the case is closed. all right wolf announce thank you very much simeon joining us with all the latest from ankara just a quick recap of our breaking news story this hour now state media in saudi arabia confirming that jamal khashoggi is dead they say this happened as a result of fight in the consulate in istanbul they have also announced that eighteen saudi nationals have been arrested as part of the ongoing investigation and the deputy head of saudi intelligence ahmed is siri has been sacked along with the royal court advisor sowed tahnee well andrew simmons is live from outside the saudi consulate in istanbul and so we were speaking earlier andrew about there being a great deal of pressure on the saudis to come up with aunt says and here we have

for the first time the version of events a public explanation of what took place. yes according to state t.v. in saudi arabia this is a preliminary announcement of results but it does fit with the new york times reports which get more than twenty four hours before this in which el al syrian who is the head of intelligence agency one of the branches of the intelligence agency is an important figure within the royal household quite a big wall a big figure in effect and also the face of saudi arabia on t.v. when it came to the saudi coalition war with the who says in yemen he is certainly by no means a small player and so the yield times article suggested that within

a speculative way could this be the means for mohammed bin i mean that. really an attempt to paul's ability excuse blame from ahmed been solemn on in terms of his role in what went on now from the very get go the turkish authorities right across the border the forensic agency is the anti terror a jesus is the prosecutor's office the attorney general all of them homing in on the audiotape which they say recorded events in the building behind me on october the second and horrifically gave a vision of murder a gruesome the details of which are disturbing to repeat but in this situation i think it's right to do so that there was a cutting of this man's fingers there was no torture as well that was torture enough but the really was within minutes of him moving into the building over the

second he suffered mortal injuries including these cutting of the fingers and also the. beaten and then the screams of him dying and the suggestion is that the the forensic officer or the forensic official from the saudi arabia who is a skilled background in forensic affair has had actually used a bone sort of started cutting dismembering his body and other saudi officials within this party the number we're not sure of in the room at the time were instructed to pack away that dismembered parts of the body now was this a fight it certainly doesn't seem to be the case but we haven't examined the audiotape from start to finish extracts of it have been leaked to the media and the situation would seem that this was

a blatant murder now we don't have the full account from the saudis yet about how a fight could have broken out but as i say the speculation going back to that new york times report from sources a lot of sources suggested that this would be the cover story effectively to try and absolve blame from mohammed bin now it's quite hard to see really because someone like el al siri is a key figure a trusted figure between the crown prince and the state so therefore it could point towards him so therefore beyond that it is really the case that this is. a suggestion that he was sent we will hear this later but in the new york times article it was suggesting that that he they he was that the fifteen members of this team of this team as it's described in turkey was sent with the orders to arrest

to arrest because georgy and bring him back to saudi arabia effect to be a rendition of a u.s. citizen that's in itself is disturbing however. it would seem that they think that that is some sort of way of absolving the blame from the crown prince perhaps speculative yes more information to come but this is a situation of grave importance in terms of saudi is a presence on the world stage how the united states react will they think that this was an accident will a turks give details very quickly about their investigation how will they respond and his suit him was saying earlier in her report it's got very late in the night getting any reaction from the turks is difficult in that brief statement of the state news agency about a telephone call between king solomon and president urged one only states that they were discussing cooperation on their own and independent investigations however it

must have been one would think a phone call to inform the president what exactly what the saudis were going to say publicly in that they were going to admit for the first time that he was dead and then come out with the story of of a fight breaking out within the consulate it's is going to be extremely tense in the coming hours in terms of saudi his statement and also the way that sucks respond the deadline was given the pressure was given to the saudis full on by mike pompei o the u.s. secretary of state the tone changed from donald trump he stated for the first time he did seem he did think that was dead and then we had this sequence of events the

seventy two hour deadline that was imposed by pompei o when he traveled to korea and how to meeting with. a related what he told. mohammed bin salma prior to him arriving in in ankara in a very brief meeting in with with the crown prince the the the really the pressure was on at that point it was a clear shift of opinion within the white house in the state department about whether they could ride this out now can they now rather doubt with this explanation and with whatever evidence follows remains to be seen but it would seem that the repression now is on president and indeed all of the. officials of the forensic offices everyone involved in the investigation here at the consulate and also the the the consul general's residence where some polls have

been found and the justice minister said only thirty six hours ago that he was convinced this was a successful thorough investigation a homicide investigation now then lies the possible floor for the saudi story in that that audiotape should show whether or not that the unimaginable prospect as some might think that should try and fight all of these men you know bodyguards of ugs them to try and fight them and and really try and get out of the building maybe he reacted with his of it's my speculation maybe he reacted anybody would do if if people had a a bomb saw there and started trying to cut his fingers off maybe rag reacted but it is very hard to find this explanation plausible given if we can assume and really assume that that all of the extracts all leaks of these audiotapes authentic now and also there are a video recordings as well and we've had

a number of extracts from these leaked out progressively without any real political intent. i think it's just being the focus of the media building and building and building about how a man who was defending the human rights and how he was writing for the washington post how he could go into a building to get permission to marry and get the the mission but get the sense of occasion to marry his fiance how he could walk into a building and be killed in that way. well it defies any real description but the position now is as i say that the pressure is on the the turks to actually respond in some way you would see to this assertion that really this was all that accident and actually there have been some lines coming through to andrew the saudi

king salmon ordering the formation of a ministerial committee with the saudi crown prince as head to restructure the general intelligence agency so that in itself suggests some sort of realignment restructuring within the saudi leadership but that the implication being that this was an operation that. essentially went wrong that that rogue agents intelligent its agents there was some sort of dysfunction that resulted in in a miscommunication or a misunderstanding of certain orders that were handed down that resulted in the death of khashoggi the position of turkey is very interesting as you say because from what we know over the past week or so they are clearly in possession of evidence that would clearly establish exactly what happened to jamal khashoggi but

there is a reluctance to publish this possibly because of the way that evidence was obtained through various intelligence sources through surveillance and that would be a violation of international law so perhaps a difficult position for president to want to navigate moment. it may be yes that there is obviously some question marks about how international law works all of this but this is not an embassy this is a consulate there are different measures different legal measures on a consulate in terms of its its role in the vienna convention restrictions and also diplomatic immunity but then this is it's really a case of of one legal expert told out in syria that the the turks had had a position to take from from from day one because they were across the situation

incredibly quickly because. g.'s wife was in touch with aid from the presidential office within a short time of waiting in vain for her husband and that triggered a very large intelligence operation with with this people immediately rallied round to assess what was going on and there was a lot of information very quickly assembled and with we understand a number of undercover intelligence officers going straight to the airport to try to search and they did search one of the private jets so that there all of that action was was triggered because of what the turks are suggesting was a capital offense of offense of murder so really that that that is that was the

position of the turks and and this really rolled on into a full massive homicide inquiry in tandem with the saudi inquiry but in terms of cooperation no one really knows what level of cooperation aside from the saudis letting them in the buildings in terms of you know they stole the operation there was a lot of a lot of delayed in getting the turkish investigators in with that cooperation. no it certainly wasn't because in the first in the first few days of this prize this the saudis were not letting anyone near the buildings in fact they were painting over pots solve the the consulate. there which would certainly obstruct any forensic offices in going about their business but really what actually triggered a change of emphasis in the way the saudis were acting was the arrival last thursday of prince khalid elf isel who's the governor of the mecca he

is the most trusted advisor to getting sound man behind self and the king was would seem certainly from all sources in all media the king was taking a direct hand now does that show that he has other plans for his his favorite son not clear not clear at all it would appear that according to sources to several media organizations that the advice that was being given between mohamed bin sound man and his father was that. it reached a crisis. he said to his father and they wanted to stick with their position and fight back now the fight seemed to distil sub walks over a period of days and it would seem that king solomon was taking a totally different approach that he wanted

a prince hello ed we're not sure where he is right now he was in istanbul here directing the investigation certainly last thursday possibly well back in saudi arabia by now but no public knowledge of that and he. was putting out perhaps a different signal that there had to be a firm response to oncet all the criticism and. feeling it seemed by all accounts of the hubbub in. the sources. that have been speaking all this of suggests that he thought he could ride it out he thought he had the backing of the full backing of double trump that he had the backing of key players and he thought that money could basically get him out of that situation and it seems that that was not it was certainly not going that way when you had a very influential republican services. basically. crossing

sides and saying that donald trump really needed to get a is a true humanitarian i says it's a difficult you know i was just going to say you're absolutely right u.s. senators have paid a relieving role in pressuring the white house to properly investigate the disappearance of jamal khashoggi for now thank you very much under simmons there in istanbul is the executive director of the arab center of washington he was a friend of jamal khashoggi he joins us via skype and if i could just start by asking you about this statement that king solomon of saudi arabia has ordered the restructuring of the come on of the general intelligence agency and that restructuring is to be done under the supervision of the crown prince mohammed bin some on the message appears to be quite clear from riyadh the way absolve him completely of playing any role in the killing of khashoggi. i don't believe this is

acceptable i mean i do not necessarily blame the saudis for trying to put a good face on this crisis it's a major crisis it's an existential crisis for saudi arabia the fact that they have come to terms with the fact that our friend. has been killed at the saudi consulate . in istanbul although they say. during a struggle whatever that struggle means when a killing squad fifteen people attacked one person i wouldn't call that a struggle or a fight that was an attempt to assassinate him to start with but at any rate you know it's good that the saudi government. finally accepting the facts but i would say i would take the steps essentially.