of his support one troop was elected you used as seasonal metaphor to describe political journalism in the us you talked about the establishment media having entered winter what did you mean by that how did political journalism fail its public describe the disconnect well i meant first of all that about a third of the country had exited from the press system meaning that they mistrust the product on principle presented unique challenges to the press and our press corps is not very good at rethinking its routines on the fly so for example the spectacular fall down in the run up to the iraq war as well as the failure to alert the country about the financial crisis in two thousand and eight weren't followed by any deep reflection of reform and we saw the same

thing after the two thousand and sixteen election and a set of trying to fix what had gone wrong in political journalism our press corps simply moved on to the next story which in this case was a very big story donald trump as president on the recent migrant caravan story fox news has plenty of answer for but there were some other news organizations that also bought into the narrative the trump and the republicans were trying to push to what extent do you think news outlets from the center even from the left or near left are also giving this particular story outsized attention once again allowing trump to be the media's assignment editor or can they just not help themselves. it's just yes very difficult for t.v. producers to resist that even something as simple as showing us on the map where those people were and how close in fact they were to the u.s. border which at one time was like a thousand miles away or hundreds of miles away even something as simple as that

was too difficult for cable news producers so that was a case where trump and his propaganda. outmaneuvered t.v. news and simply capitalized on some of its weaknesses there's this ongoing battle between president trump and c.n.n. trump screams fake news c.n.n. responds with a robust defense of its journalism for those of us on the outside this would seem to be an easy argument for c.n.n. to win it seems like a slam dunk why hasn't that been the case well i think what you have to understand here is that for this portion of the public trump is the major source of news about trump which is to say that for that part of the country and authoritarian new system is already up and running. and in that sense

nothing c.n.n. could say would make a bit of difference to the core of trump's supporters who have now assimilate is c.n.n. as a as a symbol of everything they hate it's a symbol of cultural elites of the people who are in control of the system and the paranoid style of politics that trump practices and the conspiracy thinking that it often produces are all bound up with this mistrust of c.n.n. you recently returned to new york after spending four months in germany you wrote extensively about the media there you offered some criticisms but you had mostly positive things to say is it possible to boil down what it is about the culture of journalism in germany the way it's structured the way it's regulated that exposes areas where the us media are failing and perhaps regulators have failed as well well one of the first things that struck me in germany was no fox news there's just

nothing like that in the german system the way that a story can go from the fever swamps of the extreme right wing to the white house in twenty four hours that just doesn't exist in germany part of the reason it doesn't exist is that the public broadcasters occupies such a large cultural space it's very professional. and it's a huge part of the media system but that's not the only thing there's a culture. of in german journalism that makes it pretty explicit. that both public broadcasters and the profession of journalism exist to defend german democracy that and to prevent extremes of left or right from overtaking in the public sphere we don't have anything like that any united states the existence of

a state broadcaster in germany and countries like the u.k. and right across europe is significant but what about the rules of the game fox news was created only three years after the fairness doctrine was scrubbed about was the us regulatory requirement that compelled broadcast news organizations no matter what story they were covering to show both sides of that story how in your view has the end of that particular requirement which still exists in countries like the u.k. and germany change that well i'm not sure why the fairness doctrine gets the attention it does on this issue i don't think it would have had much of effect in preventing the rise of fox news and then there's nothing really in the fairness doctrine especially with the weakening of the federal government as a regulator of everything that just that that occurred in the eighty's and ninety's

that would have stopped i think the growth of fox news or the growth of conservative talk radio it's not just that countries like germany and the u.k. have some sort of fairness or impartiality with choir and that is part of it but the thing that really makes a difference is that they have a dedicated finance system that makes those organizations strong we have nothing like that that there are countries in europe to spend one hundred dollars per citizen a year on public broadcast and we spend like five well you may not think that the end of the fairness doctrine had anything to do with the start of fox news rupert murdoch who owns the channel. would beg to disagree when he was asked why it is that he hadn't turned his british news channel sky news into a fox news he said because the regulations don't allow it now i get that the fairness doctrine may not have been the perfect regulatory measure but it was

written in one thousand nine hundred forty nine it was forty years old when it was dispensed with by the reagan administration in most countries when they have a regulation that isn't doing the job they rewrite it they update it so why this approach well because we don't have a congress that works at all we don't have a regular regulatory regime that works for hardly anything and a third difference that you didn't mention is that. the first amendment in the united states is is much stronger than the equivalents in germany and the u.k. so for example in the in germany it is against the law to practice holocaust denial you are allowed to. make particular ethnic groups into hate objects. and so there are rules that we would never tolerate any united states and there our understanding of the first amendment final question in one of those pieces that you posted back in two thousand and

sixteen after trump one is alexion you made all kinds of observations about the american media you issued a few warnings you offered a few bromides but i went through the comments under that piece and one reader left one saying good luck getting the genie back in the bottle does he have a point can what ails the american media be fixed yeah he had a point. i think we are in a cycle where it's not obvious how we change it except through political change the fusing of the media system and the political system has proceeded to such a degree that it's very hard to imagine the how just by changing practice. is our press changes its status mean after all fox new does and the white house are in a way the same operation right now so i think this cycle that we're in is going to

have to run its course somehow it's going to either have to burnt out or meet with massive political change before we see any real change in the dynamic between the press and the president ok jay rosen thanks again for talking to us here at the listening post to that thank you for having me. there are a select few broadcasting networks and president trumps good books fox news is one of them but the president also has time for the christian broadcasting network c.b.s. over the past two years c.b.s. has had exclusive interviews with donald trump as well as many of his officials and advisors this is a relationship built on joint interests evangelicals especially white evangelicals are a big part of the republican party's core vote and heading into midterm elections they're among trump's most stubborn supporters he needs to keep them onside c.b.s. provides the perfect go between and c.b.s.

executives have a religious vision for the united states that the pans on a president willing to champion their beliefs even if he himself is not exactly pious listening posts flow phillips now on donald trump and c.b.s. a political match made in have. them treat everyone thanks for coming out to our first official briefing here in the briefing room january twenty third twenty seven the first white house press conference of the trumpet ministration question number one goes to. you. the second question jennifer wish. jennifer wish and not a name from c.n.n. no c.b.s. she c b n the christian broadcasting network we were watching that first press conference in the news room here the chair that was when he called on the c.b.s.

correspondent so jenny what was that like you're in the briefing room and oh by the way sorry associated press jenny from the b block has a question how did that go well it's remarkable david and that was a signature moment for us because we never get called on. we've been in that wide. for. first first time so it's been a legitimate. as a news outlet it recognizes them now to something else to trump is basically saying i see you none of those other people sees you i'm going to overturn the system that says i have to call on c.n.n. i have to call on c.b.s. i called the new york times so i'm going to call on c.n.n. because we're part of this anti-establishment. radicals overthrowing the system. that isn't often compared to giants like c.n.n. and n.b.c.

and fox news news division is small. but it plays a very specific strategic role shaping the political interests and voting behavior of many evangelical america. the network stated mission is to prepare the united states of america for the coming of jesus christ its method the strategic use of mass communication a global ministry relying on t.v. internet and social media to spread good news. according to the network's c.e.o. c.b.s. flagship show the seven hundred club gets roughly five to six hundred thousand u.s. beers a day not exactly the more than three million viewers sean hannity gets every night on fox news but that content is then translated and transmitted around the globe getting a monthly reach of up to fifteen million c.b.s. is the most influential evangelical christian organization in the world without

a doubt it's not so due to the size of their audience though it's due to the fact that all of the other leaders in place even joking christianity pay attention to what pat says and so it's a matter of not only influencing masses but it's influencing the influence servers and that's what c.b.s. does so well. terry heathy was the executive producer of the seven hundred club for much of the one nine hundred eighty s. the parties talking about his pat robertson robertson is central to the c.b.s. story he founded the network in one nine hundred sixty and at age eighty eight still hosts the seven hundred club in genesis i he's a hugely influential figure in the evangelical community like the fundamentalists here of christianity. but it's not just his faith that guides and his father was a u.s. senator and he himself ran for the republican presidential nomination in one thousand

eight. through his blood and i've always said that he is first a politician and secondly a minister i think he's brilliant he really years he's especially brilliant when it comes to politics and market you could think of him almost as a precursor to trump a t.v. personality running for president right he laid the groundwork for someone who is not necessarily a political person running for. president and using the mobilization of conservative christian voters as the driving force behind their presidential run pat robertson believes in the end times and he believes that before the second coming of christ can happen there has to be a kind of apocalypse and so a politics of chaos actually fits in very nicely with his religious beliefs and that's going to be a great thing for christianity so to the extent that donald trump is an agent of

chaos pat robertson embrace of that oh i shouldn't know there are. thousands of people praying for him because he sees this is getting us closer and closer to the end times and the second coming. evangelicals was central to trump's election victory in twenty sixty more than eight hundred ten voted for him more than six in ten still think he's got the country headed in the right direction and as the country gears up for the midterms trump needs to keep conservative christians on the sun cv end influence and reached provides the perfect platform for that transcend c.b.s. and have developed a relationship over the years long before most people thought he was running for president he did an interview with c.b.s. and with david brody that seemed like perhaps is thinking about it in two thousand and eleven you have to pick somebody that's going to win i think he's interviewed trump at least a dozen times one on one who is god to me what are some of your thoughts on this

post so that has enabled c.b.s. and to position itself as the inside baseball network god is the ultimate real god created this the tight relationship between a seemingly ungodly president and his evangelical base appears in congress doesn't exhibit the traditional christian principles that the c.b.s. promotes so i've come here to the networks headquarters in virginia beach to ask the c.e.o. if this is just an alliance. political convenience. trump doesn't come across as the most devout president of the us of a b. . and you. would leave christian broadcaster in the country and yet you still support him. do solemnly swear i think i join with a lot of people waking up the day after the election going what just happened. so he's he's an unlikely president and it's unlikely for him to be of such appeal to

evangelical voters that said i think president trump is an absolute master me master of emotion as a master politician he made very specific promises to the evangelical community about supreme court justices about the johnson amendment about christian persecution christianity is under siege unlike other politicians who make promises in the campaign and then do something different in office he's fulfilled his promises he's he's come through a lot of what white evangelicals have had to do since trump appear on the scene is to figure out kind of how he fits in their theology and their religious commitments the office is so powerful. that you need even more a c.n.n. interview says donald trump cares about us nobody has done more for christians or

evangelicals or frankly religion that i have he's going to sit down and talk to us even though he won't talk to the washington post or the new york times or to c.b.s. i'm so donald trump values you will continue to believe in donald trump because trump believes in you. trump may value c.b.s. and c.d.n. may value the access to press but that doesn't mean has any value in the news it's produced on and that's coming from someone who should know ten years before fox news came on the scene we wrote the playbook for conservative news we call the t.v. news with a different spirit and all it was was an attempt to insert conservative propaganda into the news i am convinced this is a nation under god in the end right wing news is only a profit center it's not news and there's no attempt to be for unbiased

and i think it's gone so far now that the public isn't aware of that but that's still what we create blame me i'm the one who is is saying i don't want to play gotcha journalism i think there's plenty of place in the news space today where you're going to hear that what is missing i think in the landscape is well what is it that they're really trying to say what is that an edited version. last month that on that is had version came from pat robertson well just days after the killing of saudi john as. he was only at not reminding his evangelical view is of god's commandment.