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tv   Venezuelas Exodus  Al Jazeera  November 19, 2018 5:33pm-6:01pm +03

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when appeal ations all the tech companies engage in them to some degree but not totally so there might be additional reasons to criticize the other tech companies there probably are but it's where is this particular issue of running a mass mental manipulation machine for profit that's really google and facebook and then i don't know maybe the older you make the argument very strongly in your book you're making the argument very eloquently today but do you worry that your connection to microsoft which you said full disclosure of being a research remarks didn't undermines your argument all part of one of the rival your one of the companies that you say isn't as bad as google and facebook doesn't undermine you in some way well i love silicon valley i'm a creature of it and i want us to be better and i feel that being a loyal opposition being able to say what we're doing is wrong we need to change is my duty. it's it's some and i used to be rather lonely doing this there weren't too many others but in
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recent years it's actually become much more acceptable and common for people in the tech industry to criticize the tech industry and i think it's enormously healthy so . i don't think we should rely on people like me who are within the tech industry to be the sole critics or the sole agents of change that would be a problem but i think it's crucial that there be people inside the industry willing to call the truth but i think it is really funny but as an industry insider as someone who was there for the start of the internet and you say you love silicon valley you want to see improve on the one hand some people say your supporters will say see even johnny is saying this and he was there from the beginning he's he knows it inside out others might say hold on that makes jaron lanier a hypocrite because he made his name in this field he made his money out of it and now he's criticizing everyone else who's still in the business you know i was one of the earlier people to criticize what we're doing i started writing critical essays about this i wrote an essay in ninety two saying if we keep on going we're doing. there might someday be these bots that would do battle with each other to
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influence people and could throw an election so i mean i've been here about this for a long time does that make me a hypocrite for sticking with it possibly but you know what if that's so use what i'm saying to your benefit see read the arguments if they're helpful if you find any power from them use them i really don't like whether i'm like who cares if i'm a hypocrite i'm just one person and i'm not running for office i'm not asking you for anything what i can give you is a perspective that you will get from many other places of how an insider so make these terrible mistakes that's an earthquake enough for you jaren i mean we'll have to leave it there thank you so much for joining me on outfront. thank you so much for having me. the new york times reported this week that shortly after journalist jamal khashoggi was assassinated in turkey a member of the saudi killed team instructed the superior over the phone to tell
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your boss but bosses believed to be saudi crown prince mohammed bin sultan who back at home continues to crack down on his critics one such critic is the prominent muslim cleric chicks almagro out who's been held in solitary confinement for opposing the government and is now facing a possible death sentence joining me to discuss his situation is some abdullah a louder a saudi citizen who is now living in the united states and fears returning he's a senior fellow at georgetown university center for muslim christian understanding . for joining me from listing the saudi authorities had your father in prison last year and charged with over thirty five different crimes including corrupting the land connection to a terrorist organization and offending patriotism what's your response to the saudi authorities and to those charges well it's the same rogue operation are going on is going on actually for dissidents brode for those who disagree. at home
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for journalists economists public figures in general so my response is that the charges actually represent how the state would crack down on any different view and on any person who disagrees unfairly prosecuted in september of this year called for for the execution to do you think they're serious about that that they would really execute a cleric as prominent as your father salma out of well do you think those who went to the saudi consulate were serious to take the liar for the prominent journalist and veteran saudi. i mean it's the same mentality it's a pattern it didn't it did not start with my father did not start with jamal khashoggi it's a pattern that we have it with we have seen through the past one year and a half since the crown prince came to power they did
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everything in their power to just silence others to crackdown on dissent to just do impulsive policy you say it's. some might say yes it is a power your father was arrested imprisoned published by the saudi authorities in the past who in the nineteen ninety s. when he was a quote unquote islamist rabble rouser his critics said many would say why he's being imprisoned with m.b.a.'s the saudi government under any prince or king has always taken a very dim view of people who oppose the government is that so it's rotarian is always tyranny. trying to ask and demand political reform is never something that you should be punished for political reform that my father and others spoke for. is actually the solution is actually their path through.
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we'll come back to the political reform in a moment just to confirm many say your father was arrested in september twenty seventh because he refused to publish a tweet to his fourteen million followers at the request of the saudi government that supported the saudi led blockade of qatar which full disclosure owns this channel owns al-jazeera english is that true it's a trigger it's true because after he tweeted when he when he heard about the constellation between the qatar and saudi government he tweeted a lot between their hearts for the better of their people few hours after that tweet he was arrested that was the trigger that's of course the direct reason that he was arrested in september two thousand seventy but there is a long yes yes history and relationship and just to be clear before we get to that long history with your father being paid by the qatari government or anyone else in qatar because that's another accusation sometimes thrown against him by supporters of the saudi government has never paid and you know what if they if he was in any
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at any point paid by their government or was conspiring by any conspiring with any foreign agent they would have a lot of evidence to prove they would show it in this state they have all his evidence they didn't show anything and if you if you read the just a number and i'm against him of the charges. yeah when mohamed been so mom told bloomberg last month that one thousand five hundred saudi citizens were arrested over the last three years because he the crown prince was trying to quote get rid of extremism and terrorism without a civil war a lot of people especially in the west will hear that and say he's got a fair point they've seen hate preachers extremist clerics coming out of saudi arabia for years and they think fair enough of the prince wants to lock some of these people up to try to shut down extremism what's your response to a long cycle that says it's not accurate he is tail and he's attacking the very moderate voices that actually spearheaded the campaign against. terrorism for the
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past two decades my father for example was the one who are. called called a spade a spade he pinpoint terrorism and he called it and he demand justice against all terrorists in serbia he was actually spearheading the campaign really along with the state at the time that the state benefited from the old his campaign and his. firsts your father is spoken out against terrorism as you say including against the nine eleven attacks against osama bin laden himself but the fact is that he was once a hero of good lardons the late al qaeda leader even fight in your father's farm on the outer as his ideal personality you praise your father for in lightening muslim youth you accept surely at the very minimum that whatever he says now he was once a quote unquote extremist well you know what in the eighty's bin laden like so much of their oil family and he was very close to them those who actually gave all the
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platform those who push the jihadi agenda at that time those who run who ran the show at that time those who should be responsible my father was a popular cleric he was admired by everybody the royal at the time he was respected by the royal family by the people but just in time a lot of our just to be fair and get our facts right when billard turned against the saudi government when he'd already carried out the world trade center attacks and he published his famous fatwa against americans and foreign invaders etc in the mid ninety's he was still praising your don't know his now he's actually just use in my father's popularity to get into his audience as your father was never a fan of below no he was never a fan of that he did not even consider bin laden a scholar or a shill but he clearly has evolved in his views over the years i think it's fair of course but he was never violent while we were violent but he's evolved his views let's say in this very crude words. from a more conservative position to
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a more liberal position i think westerners would put it as special and socially socially so for democracy are not muslims around sectarianism or his attitudes towards gay people is it fair to say that if your father was left undisturbed by the government unable to preach unable to talk to his fourteen million followers and tell about his train news he could actually have. a more reformist impact on the saudi population than muhammad bin salma yes very true and that's why i haven't said man attacked him because he could pull the wrong end under the quote unquote to form a stage and it could expose so the reformist agenda that the state now is saying it's pushing for so on mohammed bin salma jamal khashoggi and his gruesome death at the hands of this team of saudi assassins in istanbul do you believe m.b.'s mohamed bin some of the saudi crown prince gave the order to kill jamal khashoggi. well you know what paul gave the attorney general the order to seek death penalty against
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my father for similar views of that of cheese hole actually there are reports even of death and the torture in so did prison while i'm speaking right now turkey and just said it was reportedly dad ended torture into rabia. semana do we she's also reportedly dad but we're not sure why you believe the crown prince is responsible for these deaths and for jamal khashoggi to go with her or that whoever so that will actually will be responsible for the death of jamal khashoggi abdullah when jamal khashoggi was on the show a lot from back in march he said he didn't quote want to be the next fall model i would i'm referring to your father being in prison at the time tragically ended up meeting a fate worse than your father's dare i asked do you know worry what will happen to you how much of a threat do you think there is against you as
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a saudi citizen now living in the us criticizing him being in the saudi authorities while well as some point he thought it's very difficult for the state to use the long arm to reach dissidents approach and those those who just did not present themselves as dissidents. and me. but now after what's happened. i think everyone is i mean the message actually the state sent is that everyone is threatened everyone we can reach everyone everywhere so it's very very dangerous and we have seen you have to do i get threats like every hour every day on twitter i get threats from different parties yeah and i believe you have more than a dozen members of your family insider who've been banned from traveling as true so they can come and see you and you can go and see them yes. one last question abdulla you've been here in the u.s.
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since the summer of twenty seventeen before your father's arrest back home in saudi arabia do you have any message for donald trump for jared cushion of john bolton for these hardcore supporters of m.b.a.'s and the saudi government here in washington d.c. well if we want to perpetuate a good relationship that lasts longer and for the best interest of both parties we should do that with these people with the saudi institutions if one individual was impulsive one is really dangerous there are many alternatives we have seen that even within the royal family there are so many royals who could or could understand the reformist agenda the real reformist agenda could allow for a margin of freedom for the people could could protect the basic rights of the saudi people so what's the n b n b a said gender and the his team is it producing
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is actually the environment they're establishing that could establish. an environment for terrorists or flourish and to live up to the louder we'll have to leave it there thank you so much for joining me on that front that's our show up front will be back next week. across europe immigration is high on the agenda and in hungary it's presented as a pressing issue we don't have immigrants at all zero immigration but this is the one political topic anybody and everybody is discussing the far right is preparing for battle and their opponents or anyone who is different. prejudiced some
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pride in hungary on al-jazeera. al-jazeera. where ever you are. china has a serious shortage of women and a lot of. one on one east meets those desperately seeking love any way they can on al-jazeera. clearly this guy's a wrecking ball. divisions deepen within the republican party about what action to take against the saudi crown prince over the death of jamal.
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watching all to zero live from our headquarters here in doha also coming up the rebels say they're ready for a ceasefire as they hold on the saudi u.a.e. coalition. israel's government narrowly avoids collapse with a coalition pledging support. person for line over the form of a no confidence motion on the president's controversial pick for prime minister. top story for you so far today the u.s. president says he hasn't listened to a recording of the murder of the saudi journalist because it is too graphic he made those comments in
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a televised interview that was taped before the cia briefed his administration on its findings the intelligence agency has reportedly found that the saudi crown prince mohammed bin solomon did order the rosslyn jordan from washington. i did not know for the first time u.s. president donald trump says when he knows exactly what's in the audiotape surrounding the death of the saudi journalist jamal khashoggi it's a suffering tape it's a terrible tape i've been fully briefed on it there's no reason for me to hear it in fact i said to the people should i they said you really should and there's no reason i know exactly i know everything that one of the ten without having to and what happened to the trouble revealed this information during an interview he taped on friday the same day that several newspapers reported that according to the cia because she was killed on orders of the saudi crown prince mohammed bin salim on position during the interview and the white house's position now it's still too soon to say who ordered she's murdered i don't know you know who can really know
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what if the crown prince speaking to you the president of the united states directly lied to you a lot that he told me that he had nothing to do with it he told me that i would say maybe five times in the last two years trump and his son in law jarrett cushion or had grown close to the crown prince they see him as key to their goal of isolating iran into promoting u.s. economic growth but on capitol hill the idea that mohamed bin solomon is a friend of the u.s. is dying i'm going to do whatever i can to place blame where i believe it lies i'm a put it at the feet of the crown prince who has been a destructive force in the middle east embargoed guider without telling anybody of this war and humans got completely out of control they put the prime minister of lebanon under house arrest is clearly this guy's a wrecking ball some in congress say trump's long running hatred of the intelligence community is keeping him from doing the right thing the president
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needs to listen to what our intelligence committee has to say what our best professionals assessment is and it's vitally important that this administration not allow itself to become part of any saudi coverup and while the u.s. . has imposed sanctions on seventeen saudi officials others in congress are pushing for much tougher punishment we need to punish to order their screws in charge and really the only thing they understand over there is strength already there are two efforts underway in congress to block arms sales to the saudis not just to end the civil war in yemen but also to send a message to the white house it won't be allowed to ignore the indefensible rosalyn jordan al-jazeera washington well salema launay is a former senior united nations official who serves a spokesman for the un's iraq mission he says for u.s. politicians saudi arabia's behavior has now reached a tipping point those actions those very aggressive and reckless actions
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have come to the fore and meet many many people who previously were committed to an alliance with the saudis for a number of reasons have made them realize that some would be a real year if not a partner that will help american security it's a part even the best in any war of value if you know this when it was set that our values are important but our interests think president it is now clear that our interests meaning american interests are actually threatened just look at what happened to the shock it was a reckless killing to kill one of president only once close friend inside turkey and then dismembered body and to believe that he could get away with it now it was thought the saudis must have thought we have done so much to capture the prime minister of. never not what to do the country what it means in yemen and no one has spoken out against this in any serious weight we can do anything we want. the
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rebels are halting drone and missile attacks against the arabia the u.a.e. and a yemeni allies say they're ready for a broader ceasefire if the coalition quote wants peace much of the recent fighting as centered on the rebel controlled city of data rob matheson as more. these are the kind of attacks the who thinks say will end ballistic missiles fired into saudi arabia from across the southern border india mohamad president of the who the revolutionary committee says we announce our initiative by calling upon the yemeni official authorities to stop the launching of missiles and drones on the us saudi n.r.t. aggressor countries and their allies in yemen in order to stop any justification for their continued aggression or see for preparing to freeze and stop military operations on all fronts to reach a just and on arrival peace if they really want to peace for the people of yemen
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after we started using missile attacks and we started to target saudi forces near the border saudi arabia is now portraying its aggression on yemen as if it is just a response to our missile and border attacks therefore today steep ams to once again clarify our position we also announce that we are ready to stop all operations at all fronts to show the world who was doing what and to give peace a chance we want to prove to the world that we want peace but who the rebels are still preparing to battle in the vital port city of her data even though pro-government forces say they've temporarily halted the fighting there ahead of peace negotiations in sweden and to allow in humanitarian aid there are suspicions the saudi led coalition will ignore the who these offer to end miss on the attacks and well you want. to give it a chance to the so. they really want to e.c.m.
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i ended the so. i would actually accept it because many times you have offered similar peace plan i'm still this only and it's not like x. it was the yemenis are facing starvation the threat from disease grows all the time thousands of lives could be saved. if both sides agree to a ceasefire rob matheson. israel's government has narrowly avoided collapse the education minister tony bennett had threatened to pull his party out of prime minister benjamin netanyahu coalition but decided against it the government was thrown into crisis when the defense minister avigdor lieberman resigned on weapons day stephanie decker joins us live now from west jerusalem stephanie how much appetite would there have been for a snap election or is this a snap election. well most people will tell you that there will probably be early elections peter is just at the moment it's been avoided i
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mean after all the criticism and ultimatum given by an awfully bennett saying that if he wasn't awarded the post of defense minister he would be resigning many people expected him to resign but what happened just now is that he criticized extensively prime minister but benjamin netanyahu particularly how he dealt with the issue of the palestinians whether it came to prisoner exchanges whether how he handled the gaza border protests how he handled how mask the fact that he hadn't yet demolished tunnel ahmar the village in the occupied west bank the bedouin village but after all that criticism he then said well you know i am going to remain in government he doesn't want to be seen as someone which is how the prime minister had played it and put pressure on him as the one to bring down this right wing government also of course it would have been handing a massive political victory to have mass in the aftermath of that ceasefire first of the resignation of the defense minister and then with the potential for all of the government so at the moment certainly it seems to have been avoided but
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everyone will tell you there's only a one seat majority it is a fragile coalition and for now i think we're going to be watching the back and forth amongst the israeli politicians trying to vie support in the outcome of elections we don't know when there will be most people will tell you that they will still be before november the twenty next year which is where they're scheduled and how people react seems to mr netanyahu is lying which seems to be look i have information i have intelligence that you are not party to but you got to trust me on this. as the prime minister is known as mr security and this is the card that he has been playing he said it was a difficult decision but i have done this for your security i have been to war he is used to be a former commander in his early years peter he's peter watched one your one war which is the two thousand and fourteen war in gaza so he played on his experience he said that he did this with the best interests and and yes he played the card of a serious security situation that there were plans and how to move ahead so many
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people do understand that when it comes to politics here a lot of things are said that aren't always exactly what they seem to be we know that is it is a difficult and fragile let's say ceasefire and security situation on that border things can escalate even if they're not intended to but at the moment a lot of the talk is about the cease fire about humanitarian efforts we know that's going on how much important export to allow for quiet as if things are changing so i think it is a card he played some people will criticize him saying that perhaps he overemphasize the security point in order to you know make his point in terms of keeping the government together we don't know exactly what this that situation is that that is certainly his trump card that he has played and for now he certainly has had a one over victory on naturally bennett who's decided not to quit and do you think mr lieberman will come back again in any shape or form or is he now politically a spent force. well we'll have to wait
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and see what the reaction is that many people will tell you that his come out of this quite strongly is the former defense minister he stuck to his guns he said he was going to resign and he did that naftali bennett on the other hand also very much a right wing minister playing to a right wing base even though he criticized netanyahu extensively and up to all the threats he said that he would be resigning if he wasn't handed the defense minister post or was coming across slightly weak i suppose by now backing off extensively after all those ultimatums all the noise he made all the criticism that he does remain in government so we're going to have to wait and see how he fares in the next elections but some people will say the way they read this is that it probably won't be doing him any favors in the polls stephanie thanks very much still to come here on al-jazeera.

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