that that saudi arabia is taking internal measures to weed out they are already taking internal measures to go after seeking even the death penalty on people who are responsible for the killing of scott look at some birmingham coming to you know this comes down to personal culpability surely and everyone doesn't just think it was the crown prince who greenlit this everyone believes it was the crown prince yes or no yes u.s. intelligence agency think it state department thinks that they still want to spoil i mean we're going to spend this troop at least make it believable this had nothing to do with the government shutdown why the white house didn't respond yesterday it has nothing to do with the preparation of a detail report without the matter is that for four months u.s. intelligence agencies in the state department and the military believe that mohammed installment is responsible for the us we know that congress including republicans you normally support from want accountability but we know that donald

trump is holding out against that why because donald trump's on the way to the middle east including saudi arabia is your question or his son in law jared cushion or is very close to him b.s. so you have two u.s. foreign policies right now you have a foreign policy which is coming out of congress coming out of the cia and part of the state department and then you have a truck foreign policy which is a family in french foreign policy and that's what's protecting m.p.'s at this point the question is not of troops going to change his positions not but how for congress will go to try to hold not only m.p.'s but also trump accountable or for what is the murder of a journalist and why are human rights abuse so the thaw you were there in istanbul at the heart of this oh i'm going saga so clearly this is going to generate more political anger and heat in washington what will it do to the political debate taking place in your country. well turkey's position was very clear from the very beginning this was

a brutal murder premeditated of course and it is obviously be find out that there are some unknown personalities would indeed government of saudi arabia who actually ordered this solidity. i agree with totally with the professor in rome that it is nothing to do with the shutdown. i mean this is actually. a political decision of mr trump i do choose to act accordingly to magnus the act or not so he is now breaching it's all law by definition when it comes to turkey turkey of course. you know in search of gift through truth and the in surge of defects i mean as we look to depreciate preliminary report of the united nations it is obviously very in line with what has previously took us

gomen has said before but of course united nations process has just begun it is a preliminary report doesn't. the the security council need to decide that there needs to be an investigation council has to be set up but i don't have any. assumption that the security council within sight accordingly because of the fact that from as mr ations behavior. but on the other sites when it you know when we look to the international political perspective mr truong has opened and created a safety zone for all the other an autocratic leaders who would like to you know engage in crimes and you know. do do. well there were day care and to silence their oppositions are fortunately it is not

a moral act and we have to debate more on this i guess in the future drill acumen in manchester just picking up on the point there that silva is raising do you see the sense of where she's coming from the logic of it and there is logic in it and it's this if you're an autocrat as far as mr trump is concerned we're ok with that because as long as we're doing business with you what if that costs a journalist his life. well know that look that's completely wrong i don't want to say i don't support everything that goes on in saudi arabia and everything they do outside of it and i want people held accountable in the point about the government shutdown is i strongly don't think a detailed report would be done with forty percent of the time for it for having it to be that being on the other hand the relation ship with saudi arabia it's second to what's going on in yemen i think the people who are trying to push push this through congress push sanctions on saudi arabia the point of it is to end u.s. support of saudi the u.a.e.

and the joint operation in yemen which is effectively fighting off the iranian proxies and al qaeda for controlling yemen which would in turn give them control of the bob element of straights meaning that could shut down the red sea and they'd have control of the strait of hormuz that could shut down the persian gulf effectively giving iran full control over the red sea and over the persian gulf and this is what it's about i don't think is about our relationship about saudi arabia about what's going on in saudi arabia it's about protecting global shipping is about protecting sovereign nations from iran coming in and putting their terrorist proxies in to control the region ok drew i don't particularly want to get into catastrophizing about what may or may not happen six months or twelve months down the line because of a yemen however scott lucas in birmingham drew does raise a valid point the vote or the attitude the political attitude to do with the show in washington we've got to overlap all blended in certain elements of america's attitude towards what's happening in yemen and the proxy conflict that drew is talking about don't we let's cut through trees nonsense because what he's just done

is just accused for example senator lindsey graham a republican a close ally of donald trump and the cia of being allies of iran in a conspiracy to try to pull the u.s. out of yemen let's get to what the real point here is i think that u.s. agencies and u.s. congress will not be able to go after him b.s. they won't be able to hold him responsible but where you might see the effect is this because many cars. us men are so angry and the agencies are so unsettled by what trump is not there may be a move for legislation which will cut u.s. arms sales to saudi arabia and possibly into u.s. support for the saudi led intervention which includes the u.a.e. in the yemeni civil war you've got that on the one side but the problem is is that on the other side you've got the trump administration which is pursuing regime change in iran so if you go too hard against the saudis over young men if you go to war against them b.s. you pretty much undercut that troponin astrachan approach which is to change the

leadership in tehran which way does u.s. foreign policy go to actually try to hold the saudis to account or to say put our hands up and say now it's all about iran and will release the pressure on him and on the yemeni intervention president donald trump has refused to hold saudi arabia and more specifically the crown prince accountable for the murder of jamal in november he contradicted a cia assessment that concluded mohammed bin selman did order the killing of demolish l.g. and shortly thereafter trump said we may never know all of the facts surrounding the murder of demolish l.g. while defending u.s. relations with riyadh and calling the kingdom a great ally but he's also said the arabia's response to the murder has been the worst cover up ever so solve a thaw in istanbul mr trump over the past four and a half months has been blowing hot and cold over who did what when does your president does wretch up type the one given what mr trump has just done turning his back on this deadline on the cia imposed deadline does he have to accept does mr

erdogan have to accept that the prime directive for washington is the washington riyadh relationship and that is first and foremost all that mr trump is interested in well occasionally and in many other cases as the argonne hers. declared that turkey is position is clear and not to be changed. and that is to find out the real responsible bodies of this brutal murder of mr kushner q only other side of course there is a regional pull to call poverty gain that we never be you know forget about it mr trump's the solutions or. the ration is there always you know little bit mind blowing time to time when he says something in the morning he could be regretting in the evening so if we look to the general american foreign policy establishment

into the middle east we see. more or less the same priorities one of the privacies is the security of israel the other priority is controlling the production cost over or oil pricing and the turd priority is the priorities of the american defense in the us three which trump is obviously you know privatizing all the time talking about lindsey graham it's significant surely it's a measure of how isolated your president is here that he turns his back on the cia deadline lindsey graham describes the crown prince as being beyond toxic point number one i want you to answer and point number two as well trump says the relationship is with the country it's not with individuals if that's the case why does his son in law his son in law who is the springboard towards we're told a new middle east peace policy his son in law has

a wonderfully warm rich whatsapp relationship with the crown prince how does that work. well so on the first point look i mean i agree with that i like i said before i want to see whoever did this held accountable and we have to have a way that we can go after individual people but not affect our foreign policy that's been built up over the last year as our foreign policy which i see is being affective we have to find out a way to do this i think with that and then second part also we're talking about arms sales and ending arms sales no look i don't want to see arms sales and it either i mean it's going to be very tough for the senate and trying to go to kansas to go to oklahoma through the introduction where you had you know you're not one to sail stopped i do not so the business the business as it appears on just mentally a senate business. for you is worth more than snuffing out the life of the voice of a dissenting journalist no look i think we saw it like i said saudi arabia needs to

be held accountable and the u.s. should be monitoring what weapons were selling to them but at the same time a deal that's been done already president trump and the republicans imagine them going to tell ten fifteen thousand workers sorry you're laid off you can't feed your family because saudi arabia one after jamal khashoggi and it's disgusting what they did it was terrible what they did to him but you know we shouldn't pretend this is washington post journalist who has some moral ethical guy he was getting money from foreign governments he was writing in support of the muslim brotherhood he said right martyrdom brotherhood members who have said that hitler was divine intervention ok drews before you go through other now ruth said that hitler or you can also ward of trying to libel or slander somebody who's dead i'm going to stop you new tracks there because i knew scott wants to come in scott you would like to react to those points. well i mean first of all look we can talk about your loss of soldiery we can talk about his political views we can talk about his journalism

quite often brave journalism to try to label him through some type of islamophobia because you want to smear him as muslim brotherhood or al qaeda that's beyond balance let's pick up i think on what the steps the sub central point is here and i want to. know that truth is there in support of card ali he said hitler was divine intervention sure you've got no clue about what is happening with the muslim brotherhood you got no clue about islam you've got no clue about middle eastern politics so don't try to use scare quotes to try to slander someone who's dead in a very direct the do coridon what is the is it hitler or divine intervention to punish the cheers am i wrong or right about that scott ok gentlemen i'm going to stop both of you there i'm going to stop both of you there because the clock is ticking and i do not want to go down the road of having a debate about the muslim brotherhood islamophobia or whether hitler was divine intervention or not we simply do not have time to have that argument over a cup of coffee we can maybe do that another time but one one point to you scott there are calls for the process the legal process to be allowed to go full

term full time on this that's basically what the saudi foreign minister is saying and also there are calls being leveled at saying full disclosure what are the chances that we get full disclosure. that depends on three. three rings in what has become a very tragic circus the first is let's establish that the saudis are trying to play for time they're hoping this will all just go away and you've heard drew try to make it all go away by saying well arms sales are the priority so the us rang is the first with the us congress presses the second rank actually comes through the united nations because now that you have the initial report which is come from the special rapporteur how much does the u.n. try to complete this process no matter how high it reaches and the third and this is what i'd like to yourself as reaction to it comes back to turkey because this isn't just a question of the turkish investigation there is a rivalry between turkey and saudi arabia whether you talk about the position in

syria whether you talk about the position in the gulf including the yemeni conflict and the wider leadership of the muslim world and i think as long as turkey really wants to press this not only is a question of whether india should be held accountable but in a way trying to play out that regional influence game then i think it won't go away no matter how much riyadh tries to wish it to be so silva would you like to pick up on that point that scott is making and that can i also add on to that there is a panel finding due in the month of june so it is june what march april may june three and a half months time if that panel says what we've heard already which is the cia believes the crown prince in effect ordered the killing of jamal khashoggi does that give you one more leverage he had despite donald trump's reaction or lack of a reaction well m.d.s. is held accountable for this little murda is nothing to do it in the end between

the relationship between b. and turkey. i totally agree with. this and professor ian birmingham yet they regional. problem gang is a long. and those between us and turkey redder than saudi arabia and turkey because our initial national security issues is jeopardize not by saudi arabia initially but but. united states foreign policy priorities saying which there n.b.s. is position in the government inside. is for the next couple of the kates will look created in tremendous effect on regional. conflicts because his his attitude and his his pulse is that we obviously be in every area of. creating more conflicts in between

countries and not for the for the peace of course but when it comes to american foreign policy making i think. rather than making some new conflicts united states had to persecute for more peace but with the eligible and of course their judgment partners with cambridge let's pull this all down to you to look a man in manchester mr l.g. beer the saudi foreign minister is being quoted in the washington post as saying the crown prince did not order the killing can i suggest to you that for the trumpet ministration that's a very nuanced take on a very complex situation where basically what we're saying here is that strategic ignorance that was fed up the way as far as the saudis are concerned should equate to strategic innocence and everyone else thinks that the word innocence cannot be

applied here particularly to the crown prince. like i said i think people need to be held accountable it was disgusting what happened to him i think i hope to see that justice run its course in due time but look i don't have any inside information that is unknown out right now i'm sure that the crown prince and b.s. at the very least ordered his capture and who knows what happened then or if not orders murder and look i'd like like i said i'd like to see justice carried out people going after but at the same time i don't want to see this totally up and destroy the u.s. foreign policy in the middle east and destroy our foreign policy interests in the middle east and i think also it's very concerning right now a lot of countries are using. this very disgusting and sad murder that happened to took a shot she to further their own interests qatar and turkey being each turkey this is a country that holds how many how many journalists in jail right now after the last attempted revolution so i think you have. a long way to go we need to go may i

interrupt this is this is nothing to do this is not going to turkey is no mistake no no no no no this is nothing to do with domestic politics talk about a trial in saudi arabia the level of the level of the the level of moral and u.s. policies in the middle east must be of the foremost discussion point when it comes to turkey's jailing journalism's also for this is a democratic discussion that he made on democratic terms in turkey yet turkey did have many other experiences unfortunate experiences which you might very well known about the fact that. drew you are going to have to pull a plug on a conversation with joyce but the conversation about journalists in turkey is a conversation we've had on the program we simply do not have the time left to go off at a tangent and start discussing that now but silva thank you for coming back on that particular point so thanks to all our guests they were scott lucas before truly

come on and thank you to you. for your company you can see the program again any time by the website al-jazeera dot com and for more discussion check out our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can talk on twitter at inside story or tweet me i'm at peta don't be one for me and the team here in doha thanks for watching i will see you very soon.