the drawback in we should make overall policy judgments based on say one particular individual i mean i've been to syria myself and interviewed some of these women of my as you can call them one and send in an i.d. pete campbell who was not a rock star and they say different things i mean some of them do say that it was a state. others don't feel regret others have stories they say oh they were duped into coming i mean what do you jews to believe in what knowledge is is your individual choice but it should all be i think yes subject to due process and then. being bought brought back to their home countries and they're assessing what kind of risk they pose of any and it will vary by it will vary by individual how to ask coming to you know this if you have returning has been portrayed as perhaps one of the most urgent threats to counter terrorism in the u.k. in front same belgium in other european countries. then they've all got

a set number to deal with haven't they jam the around to seventy four at the train for france between four and five hundred for instance and european countries though do same reluctant to have these to repatch a former fighters or their families it is that the case for as far as you're concerned. it's public opinion does not want on the whole. these foreign fighters to actually be allowed to come back into their countries britain if you go on social media because on various media outlets you hear the same same comments but the reality is britain france germany etc we don't deport our criminals to other countries we don't do that we actually deal with their murderous with burglaries with old all the people who commit crimes we deal with them in in our countries and similarly these people. we have to deal with them within our

countries and we have to let them back into the country we don't however have to actually repatriate and we don't actually have to pay money to actually fly them back in but all of this is just posturing the reality is under international law all of the countries in europe have a right to children rehabilitation in this case and should be begun we have a right and a juicy for a safeguard in perspective the newborn child because she's had a child today it's been reported and it's a lot of political posturing going on but the reality is when these people do make there were a back to france to germany to the u.k. to belgium and all the other countries they will be less sane and different countries will deal with this differently norway for example in some scandinavian countries they don't actually prosecute people that come back i think that's wrong they actually have them back in the actually just try to take them through a mentoring and rehabilitation program i think the majority of european countries will actually take them through the due process is where they've broken the law as we've all said before they will be prosecuted and where it's proven they will be

found guilty all right and then if i. you work for an organization the active change foundation give us an idea of what that is what it does what it seeks to do and how you deal with the it's of radicalization within the community where you have to change foundation started off in two thousand and three to help prevent young men and women from becoming radicalized by extremist groups at a time when people didn't understand what extremism could be you know nine eleven was just a one off and it would was never going to happen in the u.k. unfortunately through my own person experience i realize that it's a huge possibility and it will happen and then we had the seven seven bombings and subsequent. plot in two thousand and six so my our work as being a set out to you know go out into the community and engage the wider community every aspect of the community those are moderate and those that are conservative as well as those that are in school and out of school to understand addressed some of

the pertinent issues that young men and women want to talk about and through that engagement we get to and you know identify which individual needs the second of support but required to prevent them from being radicalized but also a lot of the work that we've done is where we what i resolve and passion for is those that have went on to a journey of extremism and violence humanism as well is to mentor them and to effectively the radicalize them back into mainstream and we found remarkable results over the years i work with you know prison probation service is a guy called simon connell doesn't work information anymore he's a tight but through our work in partnership with mike to you five minutes on how you recognize number of individual right ok and i'm certainly not someone we've got a huge amount of success all right if you didn't hear him as i say yeah right a huge amount of success congratulations i meant is it enough here when he's talking about a huge amount of success this is no when i say she started out in two thousand and

three what is the nature of the threat now is it as large as it was in two thousand and three or has it reduced somewhat what is the situation when it comes to young people for the most part being drawn in to these violent extremist groups. i thing is the overall appeal is reduced because it's no longer any yeah you no longer can lay claim to being this. state project that controls vast amount. broken borders are there going over this old sensitive vision of life necessary. on top of that as the islamic state collapse. territory i mean there have been more of these internal disputes from within. within yeah i very strength. my point you know as well that i wanted to jump

in because our both of our other guests is shaking their heads hanif in london then we've also got house in manchester both of you disagreeing with what i meant had to say that the allure if you like of islamic state has gone away if you could quickly give us your thoughts. yes eventually one of the things i've been involved in this now for for a long summer i've been involved the government on the sauce for supper seven seven and thereafter in the mission the of the last four years with crowley in two thousand and five we were talking about al-qaeda inspired extremism then we started talking about boko haram inspired extremism then al-shabaab and the more recently i still you know in about in the next five years we don't get this right or whatever they will be another acronym extreme al qaida and i still did not inspire extremism extremism inspired them unless we deal with this problem unless we deal with the ideological problem the the way that people focus on the intellectual the ideological the social emotional and spiritual aspects of the radicalization and

the dave article is asian and we provide lots of the radicalization programs for the government for the people as well unless we deal with this we're going to have another acronym we we can't we could move away from the single very dangerous on just the dangerous ideology that we need to focus let let i'm sorry before we come to you imam your chance to counter that. right you know why i was trying to finish my point being that as a state collapse it's terrible i intreat and see you saw some of these entailed disagreements come out about. from within about the day of my overall direction and who i was trying to say actually that they wanted things going forward you could do to try to counter. any potential appeal to group still has is to highlight these internal disagreements about. about the direction he grew because some would it was saying that oh the extremists even from within the group was a scream is

a take you know and then some when the extreme trends said that you know these lines these had made to leak concessions those moderates or dissenters of entrenched i'm just saying did highlight those could perhaps be useful in countering potential trial of the zombie state off to. the end of its terrible and virus and went over to me if i completely disagree and with due respect i meant the part of my work and also doing research and interviewing and working and working with individuals in the middle east in afghanistan and pakistan and lived on that in the last you know over the last eighteen months for a particular institution and i'll i'll i know very closely that on the surface what i am in a saying is correct but there are disputes and you know if you exploit that it might undermine them i disagree with that because right beneath the surface there is a networking and a communication between different groups one starting to align

themselves and form a thread which they've got a lot of things in common and to really read a lot of themselves as a considerable force that we will have problems in tackling well i want to happen over the next three four five years that's happening now and i'm i'm saying this. very question that's why i say that whatever we do and whatever we say from the government perspective with regards to vision go and others can be the undermining of our efforts going forward when things because groups like these are evolving they are changing the mutating and they are networking not something that we need to take very seriously. rafique you were nodding in agreement with that at the way the government deals with these returned he is in particular should me know who we're talking about specifically today will dictate the way at the way forward in

so many ways. the way that we the government has been dealing with it so nice is not going to change. again i keep saying that this is posturing for the home secretary and i think he will try to do everything that he counts to try and stop shamim and others returning but he won't be able to that's the point under international law the most that he can do is issue a temporary excluding order but the but we have to move forward a little bit as well so we have to get past the point where whatever somebody might say or do might cause offense to certain people within the u.k. because let's not forget the majority of them you kate.