people on al-jazeera. this is out there i'm dead in obligato with a check on your world headlines the biggest protests algeria has seen in nearly thirty years as president. is eighty two years old and suffered a stroke six years ago but he's seeking a fifth term anyway demonstrators say he's not fit for the job mohamed reports are her friday protests for the third successive week nationwide in algeria for her and this time they appear to be bigger than ever. demonstrators demanding president out because he's with the clique abandon his bid for

a fifth term in office in next month's election i just a day earlier eighty two year old beautifully who suffered a stroke five years ago and is in switzerland for what are described as routine medical tests urged algerians not to demonstrate and warned about the risk of chaos if they did. the protesters didn't listen she's free novels i am here today with my daughters with the country's children to take back our last algeria we want to take it back so that our children find work so that they don't see and drown in the mediterranean sea. yeah neelam the system please leave us look at the people the action is here the people are here from all social classes from the youngest to deal just everyone is saying no church fifth or please leave you won't even be judged. and local media reports say that nine politicians from which the fleet is ruling f l n party resigned to join the revolt. train and metro operators

halted services to try and stem the tide of protesters a strategy that clearly didn't work across algeria demonstrations have been staged daily for the past two weeks since beautifully could confirm he would stand for another term in office on april the eighteenth since the protests began opposition groups have been attempting to come up with a viable plan on how to remove with a flicker from office in an open letter on monday the president said if he's reelected he will call for a referendum on a new constitution and another election at some point. algeria's armed forces are under mounting pressure to find a solution but so far the response has been cryptic while alluding to the demonstrations algeria's army chief of the civil war of the one nine hundred ninety s. urging protesters to be aware history but the rallies continue with no signs of abating anytime soon. at least thirty eight women involved in an anti-government protest in sudan have been released they were detained during

a crackdown on demonstrations against the presidency the power is back on in parts of the venezuelan capital after the worst blackout in decades but the continues elsewhere some areas left without electricity for more than twenty four hours. u.s. backed fighters in syria say they'll resume their assault on ice. territory if no more civilians come out by saturday afternoon the syrian democratic forces are in the s.d.f. has slowed its offensive. to allow thousands of people to leave but u.n. says more than sixty thousand people have now fled the area. meanwhile in northwestern in the province turkey and russia have begun joint patrols to safeguard a deescalation zone is the last major rebel stronghold in the ceasefire there has prevented a syrian government offensive. north korea could be preparing for a new missile. to images captured by commercial satellites increased activity at

the site near pyongyang comes only two weeks after the leader met with the u.s. president. as a sign of goodwill as relations improved. thousands more children separated from their families at the us mexico border could soon be reunited with their parents after a court ruling initially a judge ordered nearly three thousand children could be handed back to their parents but now families split up since july twenty seventh will be included in his decision. and the u.s. president has been visiting survivors of the tornado that tore through alabama killing twenty three people. including one of the worst affected areas he signed a major disaster declaration which frees up federal money for the region. head to head. is coming up next.

it may very well be one of the most controversial companies in our country's history that quality usa is being called the largest private economy in the world you're in washington convicting four former blackwater security guards in the two thousand my guest tonight is the controversial founder and former c.e.o. of blackwater erik prince you do it movie learnt a lot of personal q. . to bill you don't you disagree that branded a war profiteer and a super mercenary by his critics princes were made over a billion dollars out of the so-called war on terror that also highlighted the clear danger of using private contractors on the battlefield and yet now back on the scene trying to privatized the war in afghanistan but offering to replace u.s. and nato troops there with his own private security force but we're handing the war to prince really helped end it i'm in the house and i've come here to the oxford

union to go head to head with erik prince a former navy seal and the founder of but quarter i'll challenge him on war crimes in iraq his plans for a private army in afghanistan and his loyal support for president donald trump. tonight i'll also be joined by sean mcfate a former private military contractor former officer in the u.s. army and author of the book the new rules of war. an award winning guardian journalist from iraq who's covered conflicts across the middle east and colonel tim collins a former commander in the british army and founder of new century a private military consulting company. ladies and gentlemen please welcome erik prince. prince is currently the deputy

chairman that executive director from two years services group a hong kong based security and the just. erik prince thank you for joining me on head to head. your back in the news with a new plan to privatize basically the u.s. led war in afghanistan but you were the founder and c.e.o. of blackwater perhaps the world's most notorious private security firm which during the iraq war became a byword for violence corruption lawlessness and yet you've never apologize for any of. i think that's an unfair characterization of the company did exactly what the u.s. government asked us to do which was to protect diplomats reconstruction officials visiting. u.n. or or other congressional delegations we did more than one hundred thousand missions no one under our care was ever killed or injured and people try to characterize the company as overly aggressive less than one half of one percent of all those missions resulted in a discharge of a firearm in an era when you had lots of violence in the capital i mean baghdad

really was the center of gravity of the insurgency and so we had you know forty one of our men were lost in action doing that mission so you mentioned that the u.s. government asked you to do a job and you did it you mention that you lost a man on your watch but you didn't mention is that you also killed a lot of people. you say what percentage is great let's talk about individual cases in two thousand and five blackwater guards fired seventy rounds into an iraqi civilians call forcing the state department to investigate in two thousand and six according to leaked pentagon documents blackwater guards fired indiscriminately iraqi civilians killing among others and ambulances driving in two thousand and seven but what a guard shot and killed fourteen iraqi civilians in what's been called the square massacre or baghdad's bloody sunday that is the rec ord that a lot of people around the world remember when they hear the name blackwater sure and when you do one hundred thousand missions it's easy to take some things out of context but remember you had many thousands of insurgents actively trying to kill

americans and not just american servicemen but the most newsworthy americans their diplomats and with the state department actually the people i'm mentioning weren't insurgents you killed your men killed a mother and son on their way to an appointment of a sentence as i see it killed a nine year old boy sadly head sadly the insurgents don't wear uniforms they would drive ambulances filled with explosives they would drive so you remember those they were sure to get insurgents. a car bomb doesn't give you much time to decide there was no call bowman missile square in two thousand and seven actually right. before mr square event there was there when i was still square there was no collarbone scuse me less than five minutes before that event happened there was a large car bomb that went off where there was a protective team of ours protecting us the idea official and sadly that that car bomb went off the team decided to move through their. and a support team went to block the traffic circle so that. the fleeing team could move through smoothly and not be ambushed when the when the intelligence provided

by the state department the u.s. government says be on the lookout for a white kiya in all the other cars in the traffic circle stop except for a wake here sadly sometimes the guys have a split second to make that the smallest black what to say the white kids thought of as you well know because you've discussed this far more than i have all of the eyewitnesses say that there was no white kid heading towards you the us colonel who turned up on the day said that there was no enemy activity involved he said it was a criminal event and an excessive shooting a us court of law in december prosecuted one of your men for first degree murder for killing his mother and. three other hold on let me finish three other men were prosecuted for manslaughter four of your men murder and manslaughter in the iraqi courts u.s. courts that's right they prosecuted them four times and they finally got a conviction the first time it was thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct guilty they found them guilty you know the first time it was thrown out for prosecutorial misconduct the second time it was overturned the third time it was a mistrial the federal government finally got them in a d.c. circuit in a d.c.

jury on the fourth time that you see jury not a legitimate jury i would say a jury of your peers does not really compare to the rest of america no that's ok ok so some juries are legitimate some not like so-called judges that language before but they were prosecuted for murder amounts would you have any regrets for the people who died a nine year old boy shot in the head was an insurgent of course we did of course we we hired as a company we hired the prosecutor that prosecuted saddam to go find each of these families to pay salacious to make amends as best as possible to reach out to them did i personally know i haven't no i haven't found all of them but we certainly apologize to the ones that had contact with and it's not just these killings and the these killings that are documented it goes beyond just god as you know but what about billions of dollars in u.s. government contracts and billions more than a billion dollars in new. government contracts to an area are over twelve years and yet a scathing u.s. state department investigation found that blackwater quote was over billing the state department and manipulating personal records its guards were partying

drinking and even crashed an armored car and saw themselves as quote above the law pretty damning the u.s. state department saying this but the company they're giving contracts to over billing and manipulating we never paid any fines for anything like that that's a fact you paid fines for a lot of things the only thing we paid a fine for it was a elation and i gave an example of the otoh if you say the only thing you paid a fine for you paid seven point five million dollars fine and twenty twelve to settle seventeen criminal charges you paid a full million dollar settlement are a department in two thousand and ten for illegal arms sales. two thousand and twelve it already sold the business i saw that in two thousand and ten but the cases go back beyond two thousand and ten the criminal charges raided all sorts of things that went back years including south sudan you broke u.s. sanctions to try and sell weapons to south sudan knowing going to there's no weapons in south sudan there was a proposal on the mineral you never put a proposal on table to salvage his government one hundred million dollars actually the issue there was a satellite phone so you did put

a proposal on the table to salvage his government no and you know it with the state department complained about then that was back in two thousand and five was a point in actual a very dangerous satellite phone the same thing you can buy and he threw dutifully we can argue about the fines let's just deal with this report the u.s. state department said you were manipulating personal records over billing the state department and your gods were partying drinking and even crashed an armored car a state department best occasion in two thousand and seven. look we employed thousands of people and i would never say that the men were perfect we didn't employ angels we employed veterans who volunteered to serve their country again in a very dangerous place and like i said forty one of them paid the ultimate cost and hundreds more were seriously wounded it's amazing that when you say we didn't employ angels we employed veterans but right now you want to do it all again that's the problem is it not. well here's the thing after after seventeen years of war ok we're the united states is spending more than the entire you gave the budget defense budget just this year and still losing in afghanistan i think it's time to

look at a different way i want to talk about afghanistan but just before we get to your afghan plan i just want to get to what drives you when you kind of come up with these plans to do private security especially at these muslim majority countries because you yourself have referred to the people your men were fighting in iraq as barbarians who crawled out of the sewer you say in your memoir these were the chanting barbarians american troops have been sent to liberate sure if you people that think it's ok to drive a car bomb into the middle of a square in the middle market place while to attempt to kill an american and in doing so they kill dozens and dozens of civilians absolutely that's barbaric which is true i think if you've read charity called whatever you want but you said these were the chanting barbarians american troops have been sent to liberate you weren't sent to liberate terrorists sounds like you talk about iraq e s. . certainly look this morning there was from you remember the decision this is. the u.s. decision to go to. liberate iraq from saddam hussein who did

a lot more horrid things than we can even speak of here that was certainly the intent i certainly had no role in that policy decision ok but you don't you don't believe iraq is above areas of you know but i believe that terrorists that car bombs in the city square certainly are ok you're proposing now to privatized the u.s. led war in afghanistan you suggested replacing almost fifty thousand nato troops and private contractors with two thousand u.s. special operators and six thousand contractors and you want to cut spending there you think by thirty billion dollars a year which sounds great and i think one thing we can definitely grown as we both think the afghan war is not going well and has been a bit of a failure but given one hundred forty thousand nato troops couldn't control that country would defeat the taliban back in twenty eleven what on earth makes you think that a few thousand contractors are going to do it now under your command because after nine eleven they take you back in the five days after nine eleven happened when president bush had a war cabinet meeting up at camp david the pentagon the best thing that the most

expensive military in the world came with was a missile and some bombing strikes and then a conventional invasion via pakistan the following april case literally while the headquarters of the pentagon is still smoldering the best the u.s. military came with was the most conventional and most cumbersome approach it was the cia that said money authorities the right people who were going after the taliban and that worked ok less than one hundred special operators cia case officers paramilitary guys in s.f. guys backed by air power. and they smash the taliban and they are all peoples of them but that's fine you topple them you have control of a country because more than six thousand people sure but then the united states repeated the soviet battle plan so it's not i believe in battle plan that six thousand people can do one hundred forty thousand couldn't show i'm not an expert on mouth but that seems we did well here's the thing you have fifteen thousand u.s. troops there now there's about seven thousand nato and another thirty thousand contractors so i'm not advocating a privatization of advocating a rationalization at

a significant cost savings the way the us has been deploying there they send a unit for seven or eight months they spend the first two or three months getting to know the area and then a couple of months they're very productive in the last month they're ready to pack up and they lift and shift and they go home ok and then you rinse and repeat you do that again and we've done thirty plus rotations of troops like that you know and as you have no continuity instead i would take the same special forces veterans that have been working there from the u.s. from nato and the usa are not angels. these are the same people the u.s. military and nato has been spending sending there for the last seventeen years but the difference is as a contractor they can go and attach to the same unit and live in the same valley and live and work and train and fight with those guys with afghan counterparts month after month for years so they have that continuity is that second resume the afghan government they don't like your plan they say it's a nonstarter they said on the most circumstances would we allow the war to become a quote private for profit business to form afghan president hamid karzai said even when the opposes your proposal i think you would say differently if you asked him

now i literally asked his office on friday and they said they're dead against it. but i've talked to other people as i talked to other people his office who disagree with. the current government has a change their position is well. under no circumstance i doubt very much that ashraf ghani will win the next election but you're waiting for a change of president to get your plan. here's the thing if they don't do a plan like this if there is not a skeletal structure support supporting the afghan forces the next president going to wind up like knowledgeable that did the problem is the way you pitched it is giving was helpful to tell the afghans we're going to be like quote the east india company which violently ruled india on behalf of the british empire in the eighteenth and nineteenth century was it wise to talk about having a viceroy in charge of the country i mean you know hiding the fact that this is a colonialist project when you use language like that but here's the thing the united states has no one person that's in charge of afghan policy there's nobody that the president can turn to and say why is afghanistan after this and. yeah sure

that doesn't help he doesn't control the military his intro the intelligence funding he doesn't control if i agree with do you think you need someone a vice we're in charge of east india company is going to go down well with brown folks. look for two hundred fifty years that security model largely worked of mostly local forces with a few professional mentors only acting as a structure support but the difference is i'm not there as a colonial power these these these mentor. right the contractors and special forces veterans are serving as adjunct in the afghan forces accountable to the afghan ministry of defense and of course the president if they're flying aircraft we actually found to see the aircraft where the contractor never makes the weapons release decision it is always the afghan but he flies the plane. safety pilot ok in two thousand and four in afghanistan a blackwater pilot flying a plane with u.s. soldiers on board flew the plane into the side of a mountain he crashed the plane into the mountain killing six passengers onboard

including three u.s. soldiers the captain's last words this blackwater employee flying the plane his last words were i swear to god they wouldn't pay me if they knew how much fun this was you were paying him eric prince he'd only been in the country two weeks have you your employees learned any lessons from that horrific incident before you go back into afghanistan sure we operated fifty six aircraft there safely for many many years we flew tens of thousands of missions safely the difficult thing is when the your customer asks you or tasks you to change your route so that the colonel on board could go view an enemy area on the way to as a deviation from the plan navigation accidents happen that's right it's a danger and yes there is going to the safety board and the u.s. military both said the blackwater provided is sufficient oversight and guidance to the pilots involved in the crash the widow of that colonel says that there was a gross lack of judgment in managing this company who was managing the company at that time in two thousand full that just sold them the former operations officer of the former operations officer sixty the most elite helicopter you know in the world

so you have people that definitely understand aviation were in charge of the u.s. military the national transportation safety board criticized your company role in the accident and they reinstated this and we were flying missions again within five days of that incident gray needed a very good job bush administration that's got nothing to do with the culpability that your company had for the deaths of those u.s. soldiers they didn't die at the hands of the taliban they died at the hands of blackwater they died at the hands of an accident made by a pilot flying in a very difficult area i mean blackwater executives were e-mailing each other at the time the e-mail came out said by necessity the initial group hired to support the afghanistan operation did not meet the criteria identified in e-mail traffic and had some background and experience shortfalls overlooked in favor of getting the requisite number of personnel on. old to start up the contract you're saying internally your own company's admitting to each other these guys on experience both need to get the contract up and running is this what you want to replicate in afghanistan now the pilots flying the mission that day had come from alaska they or they were literally high country bush policies are not people that are flying in

the over the swamps of florida they were flying on you when you were executives e-mailing each other saying that we have experience shortfalls but we need to get the contract up and running what were they saying that because the transportation because the army material command was demanding the missions to support the missions here's the families felt no no no no trying to serve a customer in a very difficult place we flew tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of missions after that safely and no incidents ok let's go to our panel here in the oxford union sean mcfate is a former private military contractor former officer in the u.s. army a professor at georgetown author of the book the new rules of war sean you've said u.s. generals have loft eric's plan for afghanistan you've called it unworkable and even magical thinking why blackwater if this was a job interview i would not give you the contract because blackwater was simply a body guard shop in iraq you've never raised or deployed a military like your advertising now i have in places and it takes hold it's

a lot more sophisticated than just mentors in the field it doesn't quite up to political leadership in kabul and they've already had message that they don't support this this is a dead deal in my opinion well and that you're mistaken because we built the entire afghan border police that was fifteen thousand people we did all the recruiting the training the vetting and we actually had mentors that went the field with them and the success rate of these units when our guys were allowed to go with them effectively is training wheels their success rate went very very high and it worked ok so you know i guess i'm the only guy that can say i've had fifty six of my own aircraft in country doing that kind of work for the u.s. military ok how does an award winning journalist. from iraq you've covered conflicts in iraq afghanistan yemen and beyond gave how do the iraqi people remember blackwater and erik prince in your view i mean it's amazing to kind of sit here and listen to eric and speak of a block or so in the services they did in iraq because the word blackwater is

synonymous with the words of the american occupation of iraq that is not a single iraqi that i you know i mean i'm one of those barbarians that was liberated by your country but there is not a single you who would you just mention the word black was as to who would not say corruption violence and i'm not talking only about the kind of massacre but i'm talking about the whole ten years of the existence of these muslims and i think part of the failure of the american project and out of was due to the using of the continent is it not is a major problem that you could concede that even if your plan is a good one you shouldn't be the one doing it given the legacy you've left behind with certainly here is the thing your your math is a little skewed because the us didn't invade iraq till two thousand and three i sold the company in two thousand and ten so that's certainly not ten years the company and the company traveling what we we tracked all the vehicles where everybody was moving ok and there is dozens and dozens of times that it was brought

up there was a blackwater event here blackwater went there and we didn't have people within two hundred kilometers of that location the sad thing is blackwater became likely next it became winded you know why because you became this because what we were the largest one doing you know because you were very worthwhile mission is the reason i mean you gave the work i mean in iraq now or in yemen or any of these places they don't use the word contractors something they use blackwater in yemen in wherever in somalia they don't use mercenaries ok so you've been in afghanistan recently is a lot of if you're reporting do you think afghans will welcome this plan that eric is putting on the table. i've met administrator high security officials of the count of one of them astray sions opposition and some of your own friends in afghanistan and all agree on one thing it's not going to work and i agree with you totally the seventeen years have been total waste the fall of the you know copy. of the soviet plan this is something we agree on however we're not getting government

officials are not talking to the minister you're talking to all the letter either mistaken i meet with dozens of afghan officials both in and out of the government from all over the country be they go tariq back. and the warlords write all the people that are going to be voting in the afghan allies so we're going to get american to go almost in one more level we need to come in colonel tim collins is here tim you once commanded british troops during iraq you gave that famous speech that a lot of us remember in two thousand and four you quit the army and founded new century a private manager consulting company how would you evaluate what happened on his watch what's the hold it a different thing i think what we have to remember and indeed i've discussed this with that many times with the u.s. state department the u.s. military and asked for services they encouraged they were enthusiastic to a point of hysteria that blackwater go into these missions when it went wrong they ran a mile and so you have to look at those people and say at

a point where there was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff were visiting the facility and encouraging more and more of these services to be privatized and that always and when things went wrong they turned their back on you saying the prince about what was scapegoated by the u.s. goes well i think that as a result of the rather expensive court case that you've been through i think that was the conclusion in the end is that the criticism i as a contractor would level is that blackwater and the organization probably grew too fast there was people who went initially. who were of the highest delta force seal team six thousand and sixty some of the people who were coming in at the end of nowhere near and it's a question of who supervising them because the people when we look at them who were in court and convicted we're not of the quality we're not of the hue how did they get there how did they get there while we're having poor quality circle towards the

end of your beard in iraq well because there's literally not enough delta force or seal team six or even seals for that matter to do that mission you go to marine infantry or army infantry the one fair characterization that i will say is. blackwater did two types of missions you work for the state department they dictated you must drive a polished waxed suburban a big issue be armored eleven thousand pounds lights and sirens down the road and when you drive the same route every day that the state department tells you to it's very easy for the enemy to set up an ambush you keep saying in gauge when ambushes just to be clear for the audience one study found that you black hole to open fire first in eighty four percent of the shootings is a little defensive because you're the first ok but it's not just a matter of the enemy opening fire with a firearm to attack they open fire with a trigger switch and they drive up to you and destroy you me literally but there's also you know millions drawing as it's nine year old children taking their ways to work whether it's hamas in palestine in pakistan afghanistan iraq bad guys gambling

says with explosives and kill innocent people not in the cases i cited we're going to take a break in part two we're going to talk to erik prince about some of his work in china and his relationship with the trumpet ministration and we're going to hear from a very patient audience here in the oxford union join us for part two. this is a boon for point people now and technology there is so much going to help people it's from thanks for calling i read this is there and what are you looking for today. that client with their day to day tasks and give them more in-depth and then. this feels like it's a little. exploration process was sort of. the we have that technology available to us. thailand's military government is accused

of using repressive means to silence critics. but you brigade of. thailand's rebel losses. zero. this is al jazeera i'm dead with a check on your world headlines venezuelan president nicolas maduro and the opposition leader have called for a competing mass protest on saturday meanwhile the u.s. has ruled out using force to deliver aid into venezuela that's according to president donald trump special representative elliott abrams planeloads of fuel supplies are currently sitting in colombia but a jury has refused to accept it and the power is back on in parts of the venezuelan capital after the worst blackout in decades but the outage continues elsewhere with

some areas left without electricity for more than twenty four hours colleges and universities in algeria will close their campuses two weeks ahead of their scheduled spring break the decision was made as an effort to diffuse student protests hundreds of thousands of people have staged the largest anti-government demonstrations algeria has seen in nearly thirty years it's to protest against president. hu seeking a fifth term in office at least thirty eight women involved in anti-government protests in sudan have been released they were detained during a crackdown on demonstrations against our martin bashir is presidency have a morgan has more from hard to. we do know is that thirty eight women have been released so far according to the da for lawyers association but let's remember that we don't know how many women were arrested in the first place and we and if they got into categories they're women who have been arrested and released as per the directives of the president there are also women who have been sentenced to jail

jail terms us fighters in syria say they'll resume their assault on eisold last pocket of territory if no more civilians come out by saturday afternoon the syrian democratic forces slowed its offensive on. to allow thousands of people to leave meanwhile in northwestern province turkey and russia have begun joint patrols to safeguard a deescalation zone a ceasefire there has prevented a syrian government offensive north korea could be preparing for a new missile launch according to were captured by a commercial satellites increased activity at the site near pyongyang comes only two weeks after the leader kim jong met with the u.s. president donald trump in vietnam came paused and satellite launches as a sign of goodwill it's back to head to head next right here on al-jazeera stay with us.

fly qatar airways and experience economy class like never before qatar airways going places together.

welcome back you're watching we head to head on al-jazeera english my guest today is erik prince the founder former c.e.o. of blackwater also a big supporter of and donor to president donald trump eric i want to talk to you about your relationship with president trump in a moment but before i do just very briefly your currently executive deputy chairman of frontis services group f s g a hong kong based security logistics from that you found it why is f s g opening a training center for security guards in of all places shinji province in china where up to a million muslim we go is being held in basically concentration camps right now there is a lot of mis reporting on that the company is not opening any training facility up there that was actually discussed at a board meeting the reporting got it wrong the only there was some kind of memorandum signed for construction services not training the company doesn't do any training of any police or security forces why did i say that. why did your company say it was establishing training facilities it was going to sign him or you for

construction at a press release march the second with your name on it for contract not my name we are going names on the press release your name is on the press to me several times and it says i've got the press of. china establishing training facilities and buying security equipment in vehicles. again it was for construction services this training facility if you look at the actual translation from mandarin to english it was sort of structure in service it's ok the only other is that we don't need only is your company's english press release will result in only training services thank you thank you it. is for people like bank of china employees or china airlines employees because they travel the world and they go to dangerous places it's how do you already people in should know their presence was wrong there is the company has zero footprint in china so it's not establishing the training facility it said it was establishing a much as i can twenty eighty in english language press release. the board has discussed this twice in there is not one dollar or r. and b.

allocated for anything like that ok and you've got nothing to do with what's going on with the week of muslims and zero ok but you do have a lot to do with the chinese government so for someone who sees himself as a great american patriot veteran navy seal america first donald trump support isn't all that you do so much security business with the chinese government which is seen by many including by president trump as a major geopolitical adversary of the united states and that way it is not a conflict again the company doesn't do any security perceval does some training for people to avoid being a victim of a terror of a terrorism is that if there is no blackwater sorry no no. you're right there is no way no official employee that's armed doing that kind of secure working in china you hong kong based the majority of your shirt if you really really come to me as a chinese owned is it known it's well it's retail investors everything from mutual funds in their currency chinese own yes or no i don't know if it's a majority but there's a lot of chinese ownership sure how much your company or the executives deputy chair know it's publicly listed it's all publicly disclosed tell us the fact is the

company does grocery delivery trucking all through southern africa we do medivac we're the biggest medivac provider but there's no conflict between working for the chinese and working for the u.s. as you want to do now in afghanistan you don't think there's a conflict there but american patriot acts veteran look america is a big trading partner of china and helping china connected logistics lines for better trade i think countries that trade together tend to not fight together ok but against sure it is a form of private military contract to former officer in the u.s. army professor at georgetown university author of the book the new rules of war short is there a conflict of interest it is a concern do you think in washington d.c. where you are based yes there is a big interest so last year the national defense strategy which is the pentagon's strategy for the world shifted the first time in years away from counterterrorism counterinsurgency into the threats of russia and china and we all know that china. uses its economic instruments of power to you know to look at they did to sri lanka

they took over a port as if they were a mafia don so it's not just economic trade there's also a darker aspect to it and many in washington see you as one of their sort of weapons of war and you're a chinese weapon of absolutely not and because we're not doing any kind of training building their tactical what about delivery shown the ability and about the fact is what does the company do now i just trucking in transportation from southern africa you can deliver groceries from cape town all the way up to the d.r. see we medivac we fly people all over the continent and we do significant air operations out of malta supporting hopefully oil operations in countries like iraq or pakistan or the hydro dams look countries around the world. if china shows up a lot of money a lot of people to do infrastructure projects the russians are showing up with muscle and weapons the united states is largely missed the boat the one positive change the trump administration has made is the law changed last october for opec

the overseas private investment corporation the only part of the u.s. government that actually makes money and now they're shifted a huge budget away from the state department of opec so that it is managed and it allows more investment also launch a trade war with china which might put you into different comes at the same time let me ask little tim collins this question is here you are a famous officer in the british army now you're chairman of your own private security consultancy new century how do you respond to critics who say when you run these private for profit companies you're only loyal to yourselves or to your bottom lines you're not loyal to a national government and that's a problem that's that makes you conflicted what's your response to people who say that well in the day there's a thing called international law nobody does anything on its side and if they do and then the the must be held accountable the difficulty is the only people who will subject to a law themselves to be regulated all the good guys there are mercenary activity all over the world the reality is that many people in this room don't realise that many

governments in the world particularly in pakistan india around the middle east maintain people who they pay and deploy as contractors and these are people who are committing atrocities they won't be regulated ok so let me put up one very briefly sean very briefly what's your sponsors point about regulation do you think companies like erik's as regulated as they should be well i'm a little bit more skeptical about the power of international law in general about mercenaries because the thing about you know who's going to go into yemen and arrest all those mercenary at the u.n. and if so the mercenaries can shoot back right they can kill your law enforcement and i'm not suggesting that eric's that would be eric's plan but eric as part of a broader. strand of the rise of mercenaries what word is this and you know private wars wars without states that's of and what if the us to partake in this area let me ask you this you're a big supporter of donald trump you've been questioned by special counsel robert

muller over the russia gate investigation he looked at your laptop and your phones i believe you also testified to congress in november twenty seventh when you told congress under oath that you played quote no official or really unofficial role in the trump campaign what you didn't tell congress is that on august third twenty sixteen you were at a meeting during the campaign at trump tower with don jr trump son which stephen miller then a campaign advisor to trump with george nader a former blackwater colleague of yours who acts as a back channel to the saudis their moralities yours happens to be convicted paedophile and also joel's an israeli expert on social media manipulation how come you didn't mention that meeting to congress given it's so relevant to their investigation. i did as part of the part of the investigations i certainly disclosed in the any meetings the very not you i don't in the congressional testimony you go to the house we went through it you didn't mention anything about august twenty sixth meeting in trump tower they specifically asked you what context you have and you didn't answer that. i don't believe i was asked that question you

were asked whether any communicate for communications or contact with the campaign you said apart from writing papers putting up yard signs know what you said i've got the transcript of the conversation here. i might have been i think it was at trump headquarters or the campaign headquarters probably twenty sixteen usable and is really due to a back channel to the emirate in the saudis don't jr and even miller were there to talk about iran policy through that about iran policy i don't think that's something important to disclose to the house intelligence committee while you're under oath he did you didn't we just went through the testimony there's no mention of the trump tower meeting because twenty sixteen were not i don't know if they got the transcript wrong. they got the transcript wrong so we could i don't know i remember i remember certainly does dismiss it we didn't hear you because we know that robert mueller he hasn't been able to establish collusion it but he has got a lot of guys for lying to the authorities and not telling the whole truth is that a problem now even if you accidentally didn't tell them that could come back and

haunt you fully cooperated i haven't heard anybody i haven't heard from anybody in more than nine months i mean i mean members of congress after they discover this media have talked about certain witnesses not telling the truth but you believe you told congress about this meeting even if not in the transcript just to be clear i believe so ok you had another meeting which they did talk to you about in the seychelles on eleventh jahnu twenty seventeen a week before trump's inauguration where good old george nader was there again on behalf of the as was top russian oligarch cheryl dimitri of a close ally of law to me putin's the emirates he stole that meeting as a as a way of creating a back channel between putin's guy dimitry of and trumps you didn't they i don't think so i was there to talk to the iraqis about somalia and some of the other problem areas that we did help with before it was also about iraq you know and it was so how did you end up with a with a russian oligarch who runs the russian direct investment fund and is seen by the iraqis as the messenger to putin they call him well i recall the immoralities were

investors in that fund and any fund manager fun any fund manager tends to travel to where their lp their investors need to be but what we chatting about with the russian dude. i've talked about in testimony that's all i mean to say but it was just a kind of accidental meeting. yes even though georgia nader your fund raising like i've said before it lasted one beer which doesn't take me very long. so you flew halfway around the world to a secret meeting in the seychelles to have one beer with. i was there to see the iranian leadership that's not what georgia nader seems to be telling the miller folks right now is that were you the native country that your former colleague i think it's amazing for you to try to view into the miller testimony that it's my impression to i mean ok that's that's what that's what's being reported ok. i want to bring in you mentioned iran interesting enough to bring in very briefly before we move on and i know the audience are waiting ghaith abdul-ahad is an award winning guardian journalist from iraq you've covered conflicts across the middle

east when you hear about the emerald teas and trump and the saudis and the israelis what is that all about i mean mentioned iran is this all about iran i mean of course we're living kind of people say it's a cold war it's not a cold war anymore between their morality so these are the israelis and the iranians on the other side and what the monarchies are doing for example in yemen and i think you work with the iraqis and you advise them at one point they are actually implementing you are of understand plan so if you see the morality war in the m.m. it is tens of thousands of mercenaries local forces with skeleton troops from the immoralities a war that is being followed so viciously with no accountability what sort but within the big arch of fighting the iranians who did exist in yemen have you advocated using private private contractors to take on iran to the trumpet ministration you know you have people have accused of advocating the past you've talked about using private contracts to confront iran no you see no role for

blackwater s.g. in any relation to iran now ok just to check before going to tell you what i've got asked one question last question you are part of a group of high profile trump supporters including steve bannon sheriff david clarke and others who are planning on raising private money to build a wall along the us mexico border you even have a go fund me page what i don't get though is i'm. pretty sure i heard donald trump say that mexico would be paying for the war. don't discount mexico actually paying for the wall i think most of us have but yet more and more news on that look there's a lot of places where it's federal land and go fund me individual effort is not possible but there's a lot of places where u.s. ranchers or u.s. landowners own land right up to the border they are sick of their farms effectively being massive transit spots for drug and criminal activity and so they would welcome that the guy who started that is a triple amputee a military veteran who started it and he's raised more than twenty million dollars

and the cost per the you for the loss of your people for money when many when trump told us more than one hundred times people have counted that mexico would pay for the wall so why do we need you in the sky and it's me page from lied to will because i again don't discount mexico actually paying for part of the world. there are things that may happen that mexico end up paying he want is entitled to the will hurt can say hey mexico is going to pay for paul to the wall part of very explicitly said mexico will pay for the wall the last chapter is not written on that mark my words you will pay for the wall so then why you fund raising. you want it both ways there is only the little bit to raise money because people are frustrated they're sick of the president can't get mexico to pay for the wall two years into his presidency after claiming there it is a national security issue when you have thousands of people crossing the border with a lot of drugs look america has a huge opium and you know the majority of the next come through legal points of entry i'm talking about the funding trumps of mexico and from the wall did you lie

to people when he said what used to be a bipartisan issue the democrats have made items that are to say that you didn't lie to us when he said mexico to pay for the well given your now trying to get americans to pay i don't believe the president has lied and like i said the last chapter of mexico paying for the wall is not done yet ok mark my word i will wait for them ok but in the meantime americans are going to pay for it through your fundraiser let's go to our audience has been waiting very patiently i'm going to go to the front here and i will go to the back gentleman here with the band. being originally iraq and having spent some time in iraq i've seen how iraqis still shudder at the name blackwater reminded of the endless aggression the use of weapons as call homes or even the use of tear gas as call traffic control do you not think that blackwater has a role to play in perpetuating violence in iraq as well as laying the foundation for the creation of al qaeda in isis there's one hundred ten thousand iraqi civilians have died after blackwater and involvement in iraq blackwater was not the problem in iraq a very sick tarion government dominated by iranian units that have been pounding on

the sunni's and now pounding on the kurds is probably the thing that led to the drop of basis but even if that's part of it most military experts including u.s. military experts agree that high profile incidents whether it's abu ghraib did help act as a recruiting sergeant for groups like isis that didn't exist before the u.s. invaded iraq so something like the missile square massacre that is still remembered in baghdad may well have done help people say you know what i'm going to go join an insurgent group that's how american street of private contractors shoot nine year old kids in the street shoot mothers with their children i think massive unemployment and iraqi government that is you know when i'm not disputing that i'm agreeing with you i'm not saying but you discount them in iraq you sitting at home seeing the missile square massacre didn't think you know what i might as well go join the insurgency this is how americans treat as innocent people no that's not you know look there is a justice a process that served there is actually accountability lots of investigation for

that but like i said i always want to ask that you don't answer the question as if iraq you sitting at home sees the missile square massacre you don't think that might incite him to join in a surge in that all of course bad news travels fast and irritates people in mumbai going to be about news is what this gentleman suggesting but we did not create one hundred ten thousand iraqi civilians that were murdered ok i didn't go to. be in the iranian side let's go back to the audience gentlemen here in the red tide. i'd like to ask what you think some of president trump's greatest for and policy achievements have been thus far and what he should focus on for the next two years to secure reelection. well you know the president he campaigned against endless wars and the pentagon look there is a real military industrial complex but he's trying to stop that he is trying to remove or reduce the u.s. presence in afghanistan and in syria he's been getting the north koreans to the table and if you can actually go she and to the korean war it will be

a magnificent first step and i think if that's if that's the case then the u.s. should be willing to pull all troops out of south korea and the u.s. presence in korea which we've been we've had for seventy seven years you're not a fan of iran is going to briefly should you negotiate with iran to why is it that iran is the evil regime nobody should talk to them but north korea i send them love letters he sends me love letters. to my knowledge i think there certainly is still back channel negotiations with the iranians as well but you know they continue to do. you know questionable things in syria ok let's go to let's go to the lady here in the gentleman there. hi this is also with regards to the august third meeting of the sixteen you said that you mentioned it in your testimony to the house intelligence committee i have the transcript right here of the testimony on the thirtieth of november two thousand and sixteen you did and i could read from it if we don't have time for you to read the facts so why didn't you why you why are you

saying you did when you could have another go answering this question why didn't you mention it in your test and there was nothing to hide not all the discussion that there was transcribed and that's a fact ok your answers to the questions suggest that there was no involvement that they asked you for example have you had any me any meetings with the u.a.e. delegation prior to the official meeting and the august third meeting was prior to say to our meeting georgian there is a representative of the m.p. that was one like i said not everything was transcribed from that discussion you weren't there. you've been very kind of i admire you be very forthcoming to on this issue you're very i want to say much are you worried are you worried about milo no not at all now ok. let's go back to the audience let's go to the gentleman there. i was caught up in this was going back to move till covering this story at the time was mayhem as you know we saw people getting killed money on drugs it was in good mood we discussed this with you before but just going back one listens have you

learned from me. if done things differently then if you knew what you know i'm sure i wouldn't have i wouldn't ever do security for the state department again it just wasn't worth it it wasn't worth the damage or the horror of the company if we were going to do it i would have insisted like we did for any angio work that we did is that we have cameras ok because the camera serves as a third party neutral observer because it's very easy to second guess something that happens you know days ago or weeks or months ago but it's very different you have to make a speech that i don't see you're saying cameras that the implication being that you don't accept you did anything wrong that i had there been cameras your men would be vindicated if that was not what you're saying to be explicit about look because i've been found guilty in american courts and in the courts you don't like but they've been found guilty in american courts after the fourth time of trying to say they've been found guilty in american court and we had numerous other incidents where there was

a shooting and we were accused and when it was all square and we believe young men did anything wrong and when law enforcement authorities viewed the tapes. there was no preview believe in this square human did anything wrong so very simple question in hindsight sure if it's an innocent civilian every innocent civilian that's killed is a tragedy is a horror and we try very hard to avoid that that's why forty when forty one men died doing that mission shielding other people from enemy bullets who are trying to kill them and slaughter them or hang them to burn they're going to some more questions lady with a hand up do it for my friend to come to you yes i was a u.s. television journalist in iraq during and after the invasion i saw blackwater people humiliate and terrorize iraqis they were hostile to journalists and they were hostile to n.g.o.s why should you get a contract to do the same thing in afghanistan thank you thank you thank you. how did you know that they were

blackwater personnel oh they very very clearly walking around not just driving cars walking around they were blackwater as journalists we knew who blackwater was let us know they were not soldiers they were blackwater if they were there was literally i'm sorry there was hundreds and hundreds of companies employing u.s. nato and other country veterans difference between the between blackwater and nato i'm sorry by saying i don't think you're that sharp that you can tell the difference between a polish guy a french guy or you know your that sharp to tell the difference well thank you thank you thank you time to do that thank you very very retract if you're going to agree before this gets out i would carry on with your i carry on with your audience will go to the general with a tie in the suit. so i've got to be in war since i was in one fighting

twenty international terrorist groups since two thousand and fourteen the afghan national security forces have been doing this by themselves so how do you justify that you'll get a contract and go and do the war in afghanistan given that you're making money out of this business and you don't ever want to conclude this business there and one point please do us a favor and have a bold line between the centers of the democracy is totally up to the people of afghanistan to decide who is their next president thank you are you ready for. you after yourself and you believe the afghans don't want nothing like that's definitely not going to do with the first question about that you have a self-interest in perpetuating the conflict as you get paid here's the thing the of the sixty two billion dollars right now the u.s. spends five billion dollars supporting the afghan security forces fifty seven billion is the cost of u.s. presence there that's going away ok the support for the afghan security forces the airlift the medivac which is wholly inadequate right now because afghan soldiers

are dying at a rate of thirty and forty per day if there is not a skill to support supply provided to them how many cars i'm sorry ashraf ghani himself said the afghan forces will collapse in less than six months i say it's more like six weeks ok so there has to be some kind of capability to keep the afghan security forces operate and able to function so that afghanistan can actually have a free election and they should be totally free to choose their next leader i agree let me ask you this despite all the things you and black would have been accused of some of which we've discussed tonight but this much more you said in two thousand and seven quote i sleep the sleep of the just i'm not feeling guilty just wondering is that still the case today you still have no regrets no guilt no ruined sleep at all over all those innocent lives taken by blackwater employees. look the fact is the company did what it was asked to it was asked to protect protect we saved thousands and thousands of people we saved many many wounded u.s. soldiers well beyond the scope of the contract. ok we did what we're asked any any

injury any civilian that's injured in a car crash or actually nine year old children shot and then correct and still since long after blackwater was involved one hundred ten thousand iraqi civilians have been killed in that same conflict by isis so by incompetence over there i want to have george bush on the show last about his sleep i'm asking about the people your guys killed does it keep you awake at night we were asked to do a job and we performed very very well we'll have to leave it there thanks to our audience here in the oxford union thanks to our panel of experts who've come tonight and thanks to erik prince for joining me on head to head that's our show head to head will be back next week. thank. you. hello ghana welcome back to your international weather forecasts where here

across united states today we are looking at a severe weather outbreak from saturday afternoon into saturday evening i want to show you the setup as the starts to play out we do have an area of low pressure that is coming in off the rockies there it is right there and we are going to be seeing a call for extending down here towards the southwest now as the system begins to make its way towards the east we do expect the storm to actually increase in intensity and also we're going to be seeing the potential for tornadoes large hail and damaging winds anywhere across the mid mississippi river valley that's area of green right there so we're going to watching this very carefully we do think it's going to be saturday afternoon into saturday evening maybe into the overnight hours as well to the north it is going to be a wintry mix and that means ice is going to be a problem as well as we go from saturday and into sunday a lot of the rain associate on the front is going to start to dissipate so sun is going to be a much better day there but up towards the north we're talking up towards canada ontario quebec it is going to be a lot of heavy snow across much of the region here for washington d.c.

the temperatures though are coming up we are looking at washington in one thousand degrees lanta twenty miami is going to be a partly cloudy day few with the temps there of about twenty degrees. that was sponsored by countdown and. this is al jazeera. you're watching that is our life from a headquarters in doha i'm dating obligate out coming up in the next sixty minutes and the algerian government orders they close or a few diversity's as pressure continues to mount against the ailing president who plans to run for a fifth term. a call for rifle protests in venezuela as it deals with a countrywide power outage which has crippled hospitals.