on all dizzier. the strength of al jazeera is that because we have such an expansive snap or people would come to us and actually share information with the al-jazeera team entrap them. hello martin dennis indo her and these are the top stories here at al-jazeera the gunman arrested after new zealand's mosque attack has been charged with murder twenty eight year old brenton tyrant didn't enter a plea nor did he seek bail forty nine people died in shootings at two mosques in christchurch on friday a makeshift memorial has been set up in the city to pay tribute to the victims messages of condolence and condemnation coming in from around the world. the prime minister. has met muslim community leaders in christchurch to offer her sympathy

support and reassurance she's promising tougher gun laws after it emerged the suspect had legally obtained five guns including also massive weapons. right here. more freedom. freedom truth truth. australia has denied a british far right commentator following his comments about the new zealand attacks mylo you're not blame the shootings on new zealand's tolerance of islam calling it a barbaric alien religious culture immigration minister david coleman said his presence would ferment hatred and division coleman had approved the visa just last week despite objections by the home affairs department. after killing at least one thousand people in mozambique tropical cyclone each day has continued to push into

southeastern africa though it is losing its intensity thousands of people have been affected by the storm which has cut off power and cause major damage to bridges and roads around half a million people in the city of beara have been isolated it is now also affecting parts of the sins involved where at least one hundred people are missing. out of him but. i saw a woman being hit by debris it's not safe for people walking here the situation is very chaotic. they said was that majority of houses ninety five percent that collapsed was precariously built up or materials. i've been speaking to louis from secor a journalist at the portuguese news agency looser. today opal eat they will get to the places where help is needed but mainly in the over as the poorest neighborhoods around the city where. we.

made most of this nine hundred people killed a number which is likely to grow in the next hours as elk gets you know and clears the breeze which are scattered all around the cycle and it is now over zimbabwe and. focus points too big to be dissipating in the next few hours the problem now is that the reverse. likely to flood all the old the areas of wrap up and this will cause even more damage to all these families which ever lost their houses and now they risk losing their artist and food insecurity is the next big risk in all over this area the central area of. afghan special forces have

been sent to help hundreds of soldiers have been besieged by taliban fighters around seven hundred troops are surrounded in bad this province that's on the border the tenth menace town they took refuge after the taliban ever run more than a dozen checkpoints some friday afghan forces have been battling the taliban in this particular region for almost two weeks french police have fired tear gas and yellow vests protests is in the capital paris it's the eighteenth weekend of demonstrations against president emmanuelle maffra. all right up to date those are all the latest headlines from us here at al-jazeera coming up next it's head to head with and then i'll be back in about twenty five minutes with the headlines.

over the last four decades china's economic boom has lifted millions out of poverty . and set the country on a path to become the world's largest economy we observe an incredible rebalancing of the chinese economy at a faster pace than anyone else. but since president xi jinping came to power in twenty thirty critics say china has become even more all to critic. judy. he's tried to curb corruption but it's also cracked down on his rivals. and invested billions in a bigger stronger military. reflecting a more aggressive foreign policy you're going to see if you're closer with as you go to include which we're going to be. at home up to

a million muslim we girls are believed to be interned by the chinese authorities in so-called reeducation centers this appears to be the most intense of social reengineering effort up to chinese food since the cultural revolution but my guest tonight disputes all this police china is a force for good in the world. i'm in the us and i've come here to the oxford union to go head to head with charles liu a chinese financier senior fellow at the peking university and an advisor to the chinese government i'll challenge him on china's human rights record and ask him is china's economic miracle sustainable and what on earth is going on with the weakness. tonight i'll also be joined by three experts steve sang director of the china institute at the school of oriental and african studies in london andrus folder a china. expert at the university of law to asia research institute and victor gao vice president of the center for china and globalization in beijing and

a former interpreter for the late president deng xiaoping. ladies and gentlemen please welcome charles liu. you is the founder and chairman of investment company haue capital and the regular t.v. commentator on chinese issues. charles lou thanks for joining me on head to head chinese president xi jinping whose government you've advised said last year china is ready for a bloody battle against our enemies and kicked off twenty nine thousand by ordering the people's liberation army to quote prepare for a comprehensive military struggle with who charles. there's only one country that is sending warships into chinese territory that is threatening china

with all kinds of things the united states. whenever i hear president from speak he says how much he loves president xi and how the great powers but everything that he's doing all the executive orders the biliteral all of this is focused on challenging china's position in the world china has one military outposts. u.s. house eight hundred it's interesting because you say the u.s. is a threat and threatening china and china is reacting funny because the u.s. commander on the ground in the asia pacific davidson in february told the u.s. senate the exact opposite he says through fear and economic pressure beijing is working to expand its form of ideology in order to bend break and replace the existing rules based international order who's with losing rules of international order who's cracking down on the booty oh who's love to paris climate agreement who's challenging. him and reached with the iranians who.

it's not china i mean you could make it all about america but i'm not here to defend trump's america but the reality is that chinese hawks independently of the u.s. are on the ascendant in your country on twentieth of december chinese rear admiral lower un said the chinese navy should consider sinking two u.s. aircraft carriers and killing ten thousand u.s. service personnel what do united states fears the most is taking casualties we'll see how frightened america is. i don't take these these these type of comments serious the chance of war between the two sides is minimal last year the chinese government announced its biggest increase in military spending for three years even though you already have a defense budget which is bigger than the u.k. france south korea and russia combined and yet you announce the biggest increase for three years this is not just about words or. when the u.s. still continues to challenge as they do for entering chinese territorial waters

however you look at it the total amount is still insignificant compared to us syndicate but you spend all their educate frog's of russia combined three nuclear powers the three nuclear powers in terms of population that's up to how many what's a population got to do with your military you have a big population we know that what's that got to do with the spending of india has a huge population they spend a quarter of what you said they wish they had the money to spend more. this talk about something doesn't directly involve the united states the south china sea arbitration the permanent court of arbitration at the hague ruled in twenty sixteen chinese claims to the south china sea have no legal basis and yet the chinese continue to disregard that ruling china is claiming more and more land more more resources building more and more of these artificial islands of the seventh of malaysia vietnam in the knees year brunei the philippines they've all been upset with chinese behavior in the south china sea with china taking these reefs all the

discussion about how such annecy has been so called freedom of navigation when was the last time you do seen a blockage of freedom of navigation and when was the last time you heard the countries even named including vietnam race in issue on china and south china sea it's only your friends americans and those trillions who are jumping up and down are all over those it's interesting because in twenty eighteen a bunch of asian countries mainly your neighbors were asked would it be better to have for the world to have the u.s. what china is the leading global power seventy three percent of asian respondents including japan south korea the philippines indonesia favored the u.s. versus twelve percent for china even with trump as president seventy seven percent of filipinos say they prefer the u.s. leading the world to beijing that's pretty damning to pick trump over china that's pretty damning i would. say that is. but in practical terms i don't see these countries in terms of their foreign policy

and their governments. addressing the chinese as a pure paul. would seem to indicate but let's bring in our panel here to see what they think about this so far and dress fuller is a german academic a china expert at the university of nottingham asia research institute and should china's neighbors and the wider world be worried about this chinese military build up this increase in spending you know i think they should and the truth of the matter is when talks about china's national rejuvenation. it is worrisome because the underlying tenets are a very cold revisionist an expansionist foreign policy as evident from the artificial reefs in the south china sea but also his threat of the next thing taiwan which is a liberal democracy a very vibrant society just. opposite the coast of mainland china and

what i think his game plan is to project his power abroad to shore up his support at home charles just deal with and dress a specific point about taiwan you were born in taiwan of course if you still lived in taipei today and the taiwanese couple we should be worried some of the rhetoric coming out of beijing about and i wouldn't be at all well not as i actually went does it take to worry you know i went to taipei for the midterm elections what i see in taipei or in taiwan today is the people in taiwan have fed up with so-called independent politics they're looking for better lives why is it a hundred and seventy thousand nears of love taiwan and have gone to show why is there all the ninety percent of the startups in taiwan are aimed at the chinese market and not the taiwanese market i think the fact that the economies have become so integrated between taiwan and china. leads to. the

possibility of addressing the issue but my impression is that the young taiwanese are actually quite worried that they may actually lose out in this process and also lose their defect to solve the liberal democratic state but that is no longer considered a primary issue even for the younger people ok let me bring in steve who's a british political scientist ball in hong kong currently director of the china institute at the school of oriental and african studies in london steve is this a new form of aggressive foreign policy in china or is a just an exaggeration on the part of. china's enemies what is china trying to do with its foreign policy trying to change the region change the world after she can be become a leader of china what we are seeing is an assertive foreign policy that essentially amongst two china now requests this and we choir's the rest of the world to pay china do you respect and what amounts to due respect is something to be

judged. by the communist party of china or in fact by the leader of china general to the spartans xi jinping ok we've also got vic to go with one of china's best known international politics experts vice president the center for china and globalization in beijing former interpreter for the late president going shopping you can't deny that the current chinese president is taking different steps of criticism is demanding respect on the regional and international china doesn't want to challenge the international order today but china wants to have a better say a lot just say in the international order today and i hope the rest of the world will respect chandler's request because this is legitimate this is a legal this is not revolutionary means to overthrow all the international in the south china sea there's a debate about legality stephen you're smiling there when it decided i want china is not allowed to change the international system as we know it at the moment but

is transforming it when the u.n. agency for human rights was been changed and then china play a leading role in the transformation equations of the human rights council as it does so it basically changes the discussions at the un about human rights now china is not doing much of the receiving end of criticism on human right charles let me ask you this one of the reasons so many people abroad are worried about chinese foreign and defense policy right now is because you have a president who at home appears to be bent on increasing its own power and reach the chinese president since well as you know tended to serve five or ten years in office but president xi has cracked down on his rivals refused to designated successor and last year got rid of term limits he's gearing up to be president for life is a dictator in chief ok two things number one it's a one party system we do and. thank god. the key

issue for the chinese government is they tried. very hard over the years to maintain stability you are claiming this president for life thing is precisely you don't understand how the system works explain it now take watching tower for example during his second term were seen as lame lame duck for the entire second term and he couldn't implement the execute a lot of the things that he wanted to execute it doesn't mean that he's guy truly going to continue for another term but the prospect would take out the possibility of being regarded as lame duck but it does give him the option to surf a life legally with even system if it goes in that direction he does seem to be going in that direction numbness or the quick question there on the vote last year in march that was the vote in the national people's congress to get rid of term limits the delegates voted two thousand nine hundred sixty four of them voted two of them voted against two thousand nine hundred fifty nine voted in favor of free

and fair election. i'm just wondering to you i mean in two thousand not only would have voted the way you wanted to know who were similar and chinese politics works apparently that's how it works ok good to hear such an endorsement of the system. i think you should not be addressing the chinese entire system of how it works in comparison to what you have in the west you have to remember there fifty years ago ninety percent of the population where you literate only ten percent was literate sophisticated educated the whole process of transforming that into a modern society is that it's taken a long time by the way a lot of chinese people weren't happy with the two term limits and they took two way bo and other online forums and they were not allowed to in fact the chinese government disallowed the word personality cult my emperor two term limit emperor a she they were all not allowed to use those words online to avoid people's

dissatisfaction with this move. this is just. you you read where poor i don't read way but others who read it for me ok. they are comments their views and comments describing their views and comments on this issue they got shut down so it's not true shut down because i can i wrote something on the as well where you wrote something critical of president chiluba. absolutely oh well what did you write i said this would not be regarded well by the western press ah but that's your definition of a criticism of the chinese rather nicely done charles we got to move on time a short we want to talk about the economy in part two before we do there's another big domestic issue that's grabbed a lot of headlines in recent months your country the government you support and have advised according to a un rapporteurs report into the u.s. state department according to amnesty international couldn't human rights watch according to plenty of journalists and many others are believed to be detained

maybe a million people or more mainly from the we go muslim ethnic minority in reeducation camps a million people charles million ok it's certainly not grabbing headlines in china is it not because you don't have a free press in china so you can have headlines about the we know it's because there are fifty five national minorities in china and population is. in total line and ten million i believe and yes zero point zero point seven percent of the world i work on percentages if you lock up a million the world around the world pays attention one point four billion people need to be third need to be close i got to be a billion people in the most concern you to hear that a million people of your fellow chinese countrymen and women have been lucky if it's true sure how do we establish if it's true or not. why don't you let people in to check and count the moment for sure i think people have visited know they've been on kind of supervised trips to chinese monitors to select camps where they haven't been able to see everything in front of reuters went to the trip last year

they were taken around they were allowed to meet some people and the people saying if you're happy and you know it clap your hands and chinese government has stood in the room the whole time and no one of the speech anyone in there but well you know this is there are there are people who've been in those camps who have come out of those camps and are refugees in the us in kazakhstan and they have testified to hoarding shackling torture sleep deprivation sexual humiliation starvation this is what's coming out from people who've been in those camps and if it's true then there's certainly a very bad this is not my area of expertise and involved in the politics and i've been to see into more concerned about the economic side let me bring in victor gao who. is a very well known chinese political commentator even chinese government officials have admitted that there are these camps there are people locked up for quote unquote reeducation but in the most horrific conditions and we're talking up to a million people victor how can you justify that the wiggle people are our brothers as sisters i have many friends among the wheel people among the muslim people they

are minority most of them great chinese nationals that's for sure however i'm on the we've all muslims there are extremists there are terrorists and there are separatists separatists which want to who want to split. away from china in china under the chinese law anyone attempting to separate any part of chinese territory outside of china is committing a crime we need to be fully nowhere of this legal issue we cannot tolerate anyone denying that some we have been caught up in international terrorism no one to deny and i wondering why not lock them up i lock up a million people first of all all together in sheen go there. less than ten million people if you had really serious leaving that there is one million people among the eagles or locked up in so-called caps this is completely fabricated how many people

are locked up i do not know you can't buy a million if you don't have an alternative number there are several vs one is the definition of one million or less that one billion that's one thing the other word is locked up well they're not there of their own volition other there are people in jail who are going through training or retraining for educational purposes there are people in education because kyra at summer camp who was one of the people who managed to get out of a camp he says we were forced to sing political songs and study speeches of the chinese communist party we were forced to chant long live xi jinping before we were given our meals many of us who tried to attempt suicide allowed me to say one thing for sure no one in china is saying long live so whatever report you are quality is false to start with here's what i don't give it to the us. international human rights watch the u.s. state department various china experts human rights activists have come up with this number of a million based on satellite photography based on people who have come out and

talked about it you're saying it's not a million i'm asking very simply how many is it i think we need to just differentiate the realities on the ground versus the falsified the claims of the refugees we go if you do have talked about being tortured in camps they're just making it up according to you lots of these claims are false you fight well as i mentioned you're a friend of the we are good people ok andrus folder what do you make of victor's response and charles' response so far i think it's both what charles and victor said this indefensible and let me explain for a lot of people who support the transforms party cultural difference has to be dealt with by homogenisation in the simulation but let me give a human face to these people. there is a pop saying he's famous for a song where he's encouraging young people to study hard to do physical exercise and to be courtis he is not a terrorist. or a second example there is another gentleman and he was very promising footballer

because he travelled abroad he was deemed a potential terrorist if he is in a camp he is not a terrorist in the last but not least in that really important. the peace activist very widely respected individual he has always advocated that the predominantly han chinese should get along with the weaker is and vice versa he was locked up for life for this kind of moderate advocacy on behalf of his own people so i would say these three individuals need to be released immediately the one million we. need to be released immediately there is no justification to bring so much harm to them and their families should be able to live in peace and free from fear victor what's your response to that and charles you want to come and do no harm in the fighters are fighting definitely not on militia reactor five thousand people so why not five thousand lives we will fight or fight in syria has about three or four

person in their family fighting together how does five thousand fighters go over to the. syria come on charles every country has had problems with fighters going out to syria has enjoyed five arest attacks in china. not locked up a million muslims in france five thousand and how did they get there there's a support group the same in france charles and the french of not locked up a million people they have a problem the french claim they have a problem radicalisation they border a state of emergency but they have been detained but even the french haven't said you can name your son muhammad you can't have children entering mosques government employees can't fast during ramadan you can grow quote abnormally long beards that's asian is banned we give people from doing that's for children not being allowed to go into mosques that's totally false eyes are false how do you know because i've seen the photos of them of the sign there are photos of i have

a. neighbor next media next door neighbor. who is muslim who goes to mosque with his children in beijing is the relationship you know what how do you say don't ask me out only about this but then you jump in to say everything's fake steve let me ask you this you're listening to charles of it are saying this is propaganda what do we know what is the evidence suggest to you that you've seen that can be corroborated by what's happening on the ground on a place like india what we do know of the political system is that the communist party of china has a monopoly of the truth and the more copley of history in china therefore what bass a must be true is by definition and what anybody else has to say that the snot coincide with what the party is saying is. that is what we are dealing with when we're talking about one tenth of one they define a minority in the whole country. being identify and put in can't how would

our friends here feel if one tenth of the native population of shanghai or beijing are living in camps. never thought about that question because just posed it. i just don't see it i don't see it happening i don't see a possible physically to spend this in order in an amount of time on something which many myself included don't feel to be truthful i think they could have propaganda on your part here's what i don't get on the one hand you say i don't know anything about this on the other hand you believe it from truthful you can't have it both ways charles if you don't know anything about it maybe you should accuse other people of making stuff up and you invicta say it's all fake news. maybe there was maybe there is something. ok we're going to leave the discussion

we're going to take a break we're going to come back in part two of her dad with charles liu with our panel of experts we're going to hear from our position audience here in the oxford union we're going to talk about the chinese economic miracle and about much more. they were searching for a sanctuary in australia but instead would have time for use on a pacific island now one o one east follows the journey of two refugees as they thought your new life in north america on al-jazeera the chips for democratically elected president ousted and held incommunicado since two thousand and thirteen events shrouded in secrecy so power change hands as the military seize control from its commander in chief. for the first time al-jazeera reveals exclusively what happened behind closed doors

directly from those who witnessed it first hand morsy the final hours. on al-jazeera. hello again i'm martin dennis in doha are in these are the top stories here about the government arrested after new zealand's mosque attack has been charged with murder twenty eight year old brenton tarrant didn't enter a plea nor did he seek bail forty nine people died in shootings at two mass christ church on friday. a makeshift memorial has been set up in the city to pay tribute to the victims and messages of condolence and condemnation coming in from around the world. prime minister just in the arden has met muslim community leaders in christchurch to offer her sympathy support and reassurance she's promising tougher

gun laws of her it emerged the suspect had legally obtained five guns including automatic weapons. right here. more freedom. thankfully the freedom to restore calm. after killing at least nineteen people in mozambique tropical cyclone a day continues to push into southeastern africa though it is losing its intensity thousands of people there were already been affected by the song which has cut off power it's called major damage to bridges and roads around half a million people in the port city of bear have been cut off is a is now affecting parts of eastern zimbabwe at least one hundred people are missing their government unifem by people i saw a woman being hit by debris it's not safe for people walking here the situation is

very chaotic. they said majority of houses a ninety five percent that collapsed was precariously built up or materials. afghans herschel forces have been sent to help hundreds of soldiers who've been besieged by the taliban around seven hundred troops are surrounding surrounded in bad this province that's on the border with turkey when the stand the soldiers took refuge after the taliban overran more than a dozen checkpoints on friday afghan forces have been battling the taliban in the region for almost two weeks french police have fired tear gas and yellow vests protest is in the capital paris that's a scene live right at the moment in the show. and those are the headlines. thank you indra well head to head on

al-jazeera my guest today is charles liu the financier entrepreneur informal advisor to the chinese government undoubtedly the chinese economy has been a success story in many ways record growth millions of people lifted out of poverty and the only ones questions that but there are of course as you know serious concerns about the sustainability of the chinese economic miracle how long it's going to last the jobs markets got a lot tougher exports and imports a slowdown the chinese stock indexes i believe lost almost a quarter of their value last year even the trade war with the u.s. seems to be taking its toll are we witnessing the beginning in of the end of the chinese economic. i remember a book from one thousand nine hundred ninety eight by a top economist called the oncoming collapse of the chinese economy that's nineteen ninety eight two thousand and nineteen twenty some years ago there's been plenty of discussion about the oncoming collapse of the chinese economy and the coming collapse of the chinese financial system oncoming collapse of chinese

productivity i'm afraid so far it's proven that it's last year and believe that. the chinese economy is transforming it is moving from cheap labor manufacturing for fortune five hundred companies to a significantly. meaningful domestic market and domestic consumption now six point five percent ok i would say to my co-investors even four percent is is quite good because the base is so much bigger now one thing that's been a consistent trend in china has just been getting worse and worse over the last few decades is inequality that seems to be spiraling out of control in a country there were eighteen million new chinese billionaires in twenty eighteen alone that's almost two new billionaires a week while tens of millions of people still live in poverty why is a self-styled communist society producing so many billionaires and so much income

inequality why i think it's the value creation is society as a whole then shopping said that some people get rich first in terms of developing milton friedman said something similar they were going to say the same thing to the real exactly if you recall down economics for the chinese it was the chinese socialist way ok it's the trickle down or is there some things much more significant according to a recent study by the european think tank bruegel quote the large and persistent income gap is partly the fault of china's tax and transfer system and quote very generous personal income tax allowance and exemptions that favor high income individuals you're a high income individual you charles have you benefited from this tax system haven't you while other chinese have and there are two aspects to this new tax rolls have just been implemented which is supposed to be much more second is. it's very very difficult to have a transforming society that is changing so rapidly and to have

a taxing system that fits in every stage of development and if you look at china in the nineteen eighties early one nine hundred ninety s. it was basically cheap manufacturing and then they moved into something else and yet today the article one of the chinese constitution still says that the people's republic of china is a socialist state led by the working class that's just a completely false description of china today you know led by the working class you know not really a socialist. who are certainly not a socialism nor norway and then london sweden. we prefer to look at what happens to the economy and whether or not people's livelihoods have been improved at well let's talk about some of the rich chinese and what they're up to the who are on the group very well respected research company that a third day of high net worth individuals in china rich millionaires and so and they found that almost half the number of rich chinese are planning to move away from china to protect their fortunes and to get better educations for their kids a lot of chinese billionaires billionaires you know i mean you keep going on about the west the west

a lot of the rich people in your country are obsessed with the west they buy houses in the west they send their kids to school in the west they buy western art at ridiculous prices how come. it's part of the investment i buy things in the west as well you wanted i think they wanted to move because of the political environment in china one in five said they want to protect their assets three quarters that they want their children to have a better education not a great vote of confidence in china from its richest be ok i have investments all over the world as well it doesn't mean that i'm moving out of china the number you should look at is the number of students returning to china after getting an education and the worst of course with china vilification by the u.s. a lot of chinese students being pushed out of u.s. schools i guess how billionaire business men can send their kids abroad to study how do you explain the president of china a twenty two thousand dollars a year official salary paying for his only daughter to go to harvard how do you explain all these top politburo officials who are on twenty two thousand twenty

three thousand dollars a year sending their kids to some of the most expensive private schools and universities how do they pay for that if you went purely by scores that eighty percent of the population of the u.c. system will be asian they happen to be better students and they get scholarships so did she jinping daughter get a scholarship to go to harvard i don't know i assume he could have she could have because you know that his family according to a bloomberg study found to be billionaires his brother in law's name appeared in the panama papers the chinese political elite is riddled with corruption as you well know and that's something that has been in the process of being addressed the last four years what does that say about your model that the chinese government has rounded up two million people communist party officials have been disciplined for corruption in recent years thank god that they've been rounded up and what about the president the politburo he seems to only arrest people who are not in his inner circle the people he likes never seem to get arrested not true really can you name a ally of the president who ended up recently. who's an ally who's not there are

politburo members who are brought to charges well let's ask our panel andrea folder is here trying to export at the university of nottingham to asia research institute in the u.k. you've advised german and european authorities are engaged with china you're shaking your head when charles talks about how bad a problem is it in china and is it being dealt with well first of all of course it's very opaque it's a dangerous topic to talk about however we know from the wiki leaks and one of the cables from the us state department. that the police committee is basically a cabal of business and these individual members control whole industries so was what was alleged is that for example that the no increase in secret securities are . basically controlled the oil industry and for exam the case of the former premier wen jiabao his wife she apparently like diamonds a lot so she would control the press release gems sector now if you think about it the cutting of the economic pie like this then thinking that this founder of amazon

is the richest man in the world i think becomes a rather offensive full idea because these members in the political standing committee probably and their families are far richer than any individual outside china victor gao is reversed chinese international politics expert vice president the center for china and globalization in beijing former interpreter to the late president. how do you explain to someone who's been around some of these people you've been in their presence where do they get all their money from of their own twenty two grand a year first of all for the record corruption in china is deeply entrenched secondly as an institution and as a policy the chinese government chinese party and the chinese people cannot tolerate corruption so whatever that's necessary to weed out corruption to rind out the corrupt officials will do and this is exactly what charles mentioned the chinese system is doing over the past five or six years in particular to be. in chasing after these corrupt place it is those who have working as

a chinese overseas wealth as doubled between twenty twelve and twenty eighteen they seem to be getting away with offshoring all our assets let me add another point however over the past twenty or thirty years probably proceed almost all the cities as con up significantly so most of the urban citizens in china to say the least about the government officials can actually afford their kids to send their kids to the best schools in the west is specially of the chinese system of family relatives pulling our funds together to support the outstanding member in china many you know really they all were going to address this point that you have the former prime minister's wife controlling the diamond industry of different politburo members controlling different sectors of the economy how is that that's socialism with the chinese characteristic that's exactly what we were talking about before. politburo members were whole to task for these things i mean the thing is there was a report by the people bank of china in two thousand and eleven and they found out

that since the one nine hundred ninety s. eighteen thousand party officials managers of. pigs they do an enterprise etc had to fled the country and they took with them a whopping one hundred twenty twenty billion u.s. dollars if you think about that kind of theft of looting of state assets if that had been invested let's see in the chinese education system or in china's health system that would have believed a lot more poverty but let me bring in steve who would be waiting patiently british political scientist born in hong kong currently the director of the china institute at the school of oriental and african studies in london how bad is the inequality problem in china and could either of our distinguished guest from china tell us what the coefficient is in china this is the measure of inequality that is the measure of inequality. i studied china and korea i confess that i cannot

tell you because that no such thing is available why because the chinese government don't want to be available maybe the party has caught them but if the party has the information is top secret is completely classified we are not allowed to know what it is in china many people are not very happy about comparing their wealth to their neighbors however one thing is drool among the majority of the chinese people that is if that person compares his own situation with his situation ten years of war twenty years ago or forty years ago every world is better off the have still megatrend we need to keep focused on the great changes that have that's happening to everyone among the chinese people and that means every chinese major issue you can't just dismiss it. steve deal with this point about. where this wealth comes from and how they use it to spend abroad the problem of corruption and it's basically systemic and the chinese government under xi jinping has done

a lot to deal with corruption and you quoted the two million figure all for all there is also a different set of figures the so-called tiger. tigers are basically mice minister and above rang senior leaders in the chinese government by the west and. about just below two hundred tigers has been brought down the chinese state media to figures of seven hundred among the two hundred or seven hundred. neighing theory who are people who had previously worked with president xi and why is it so difficult to name even one single one of those who are maybe someone you don't know who is. two hundred and seven hundred star but you do you you know you can know who they are how do you identify who is in what count we can look at their career the parties where you are with their career structures or who

have who have worked with president xi when he was in full jump all over position is that people around treasure have not been locked up for corruption of steve position can you dispute that do you have a do you have a person i don't have a view on ok let's take let's go i want to go back to something later when you said that. the amount of wealth of china in the last ten years was over twenty two and twenty two has doubled or believe the g.d.p. has doubles as well there are a lot of chinese billionaires taken out of tax havens i'm wondering how about so ok in a socialist country supposedly with the you define a socialist you know baby how do you define socialism i think social this is just a slogan in reality it's the chinese way of doing things i'm glad we agree it's just a slogan for the chinese ok let's go to the audience who've been waiting very patiently raise your hands wait for a microphone to come to you let's go to a lady here thank you very much i am i have been cut off from my speaking to my

family since beginning of two thousand and seventeen just like the many sauza in south living overseas and my question to you mr liu. does it really bother or concern you that the country that you made whole after every announcing you are taiwanese sits the ship is criminalizing the entire. people and implementing policies that major vested in news organizations law makers and illegals. scholars have described as crimes against humanity thank you first of all i have we are friends. if it's valid that there are things which are not properly done of course is not good of course is not good. earlier you said that it was propaganda for me when you hear

these stories you realize it's probably not best to dismiss everything as propaganda i use propaganda because you are you abrasive aggressive way of addressing the story so it wasn't about the substance you just are not my style if i can live with the substance of it is no use telling you what's going on she calls because this is somebody's understanding this lady said i don't know i don't know victims wants to jump and victor this lady. we go i would treat you as a brother or sister the same as a tree the majority of people i'm on the way to people secondly if i could give you one piece of advice i would see several if any of your brothers and sisters their relatives are communist party members in china then by party discipline they are not allowed to go to the mosque if they want to go to a mosque fine resign from the communist party of china so the government in china has a if you are a communist party member of china don't call to

a mosque. to do it as i did to ask you a follow up on this there are no reports which haven't been really denied by the chinese government that the communist party that you talk about is sending hand chinese people to live in we get houses to watch them twenty four seven as they eat drink pray is that fake news as well there is no problem in believing i have many islamic friends you have your friends your muslim friends i get it how why do you have people living in your house against your will because a lot of we get to do right now however if any. misuses as a pretext or to split away from china that's a cry on their people's living rooms in. the communist party that i am not aware of i've never been inside the family of a we unfortunately a lot of chinese communist party members have let's go back to the audience let's take the lady there in the green scarf about you know you sad. doesn't people wanted to syria and hide and my question to you is how did you let some to go syria

too far with such a strict beriah every one hundred turns there are one checkpoints and even so people can't go on town to another town and so to st surveillance how do you let something go to the syria to do want to talk about most of these we all fighters now syria previously and currently in afghanistan have smuggled themselves out of china so in that action itself is a violation of chinese law again there are smuggling activities breen we goes out of china through myanmar through to malaysia for examples of this is a problem only to china but to china's neighboring countries and dress for you here are trying to get your take on this this all you're about terrorism is a credible argument in your view well you self made the point that every country has to deal with this extremism the question is how you do that i think this idea that you need to create this more. nation where ethnic

difference is not tolerated where cultural difference is not tolerated and where religious activity is not tolerated i think this is where the lack of a better word rabbit or that the chinese cause party has gone in where i'm not quite sure how they can get out of where the off ramp really is because do you want to keep like a million weekers in these camps for ever or the next five years or when you release them i need to go back to the audience but very briefly victor how long how long this comes first of all i do not agree with the premise of your question there are more mosques being built as we speak there probably any other religious establishment in china about to do this lady here in the black church in the second row china still has a poor social security net and working. and working conditions of the poor workers are still. a problem in china and i want to ask how can these conditions be improved charles there is

a shortfall in the social security paul there's no question one of the ways that that has been addressed has been the allocation of ten percent of the shareholding of the enterprises many of which are listed companies either in new york or hong kong or in china. two are located into the social security paul isn't the problem but again come out of the idea of socialism slogan or not in the beginning of the show you were telling me all india wishes they could spend what we spend on defense but that's really something to brag about when you spend i think five percent of your g.d.p. on health and two percent on education which is lower than what sudan spends on health and education as a proportion of value that's pretty embarrassing for a country your size ups you all the world think calling is a socialist i think i am doing the poor people when i really help them i think i think health education spending should be more in interest hasn't been there it's been increasing significantly but why is so low in

a country that claims to care about the working class it could be it could be spending more sure let's take some more questions and a little lady in the red shirt my question is do you think that the rise in populism and the economic slowdown in the west is possibly a threat to china the rise of habilis and reap some of the in a political sense is a threat to the whole world because what we have in terms of the us for example and even europe is a challenge to the rise of asia overall it's not china because if you look at the two hundred eighty components for your i phone two hundred seventy something are made in asia and assembled in china and its efficiency is one hands because of the market size so this rise of populism in trying to move the supply chain from asia back to the united states it is a threat it's a threat to the whole world not just a. china because this supply chain this market has been very beneficial for the

whole world this is how the west including the u.s. and europe has been able to get lower cost of living lower and cheaper goods ok let's go to a gentleman who was waiting with that i lost contact. all families says early two thousand and seventeen and i recently found out my siblings and they are in the so-called concentration camps. i don't know are they still alive or not and secondly i don't know my mother is. she is well. not allowed to talk communicate with them and also why they lot a lot to my mother related to me. why my mom must suffer from not seeing and hearing from their source just my question that the

statement i have no idea has let me out let me turn into a question when you hear such stories on you concerned as a citizen of china what's good might be going on in your country yes i am and when you go about trying to do anything about it find out more about the subject. ok let's go let's go back to the audience i said at the back person you do believe that china's notion of human rights is fundamentally different if saw how would you define china's human rights policy very good question i think cultural difference there. in terms of human rights for example. cultural differences and i actually concrete circumstances there was a lot of complained about the violation of human rights to force one family per child but if that policy was not implemented china would be over two billion people now who feed them who are educate them so there are concrete circumstances and very pragmatic issues that have to be addressed ok when the bait i said if you will

stand up and get the money do you think it is good practice for the chinese government to have full control over the information its citizens do online to take a sneaky peek at the rest of the internet when your new k. no i don't have i don't have any problems because i don't take sneaking peeks of things that i'm not interested in ok so but as in terms of the question of the chinese government control the flow of information i think there should be some measure of control including in the united states but total control in china. that should be a lesson that should be reduced you'd like to see reduced i'm sure you think it will be. in some in some cases it has been ok let me ask you as we're out of time but i do want to ask you this you were born in taiwan capitalist society you moved to the us as a child you studied n.y.u. in princeton you worked at the u.n.

but in one thousand nine hundred eighty five i believe you gave up your taiwanese passport and your u.s. green card to become a citizen of the people's republic what made you give up all those liberties and freedoms and move to china. i felt quite oppressed in the u.s. i participated with martin luther king in the civil rights march in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight well and. against the war in vietnam and i have one of my stellar students a princeton beaten to death by. red necks just because i was trying this and you thought china was the place to go to get mono i just thought if they don't want to chinese i'll just be chinese and you participate in the m.l.k. protest civil rights nine hundred sixty eight if you think those protests could ever happen in china. i was actually shocked at how it took two hundred years for the u.s. to be addressing the issue of blacks sitting on the back of busses the chinese mind in the time and you might get those protests but nor and well i hope china doesn't

have to to have protest for these things to be a result allowed at the moment the point to make you called protest the owner no way that he's going to avoid him and though the this there's plenty of protests in terms of even when the stock market crashed you know people are protesting charles liu we'll have to leave it there thank you so much for joining me on the show thanks to our audience here in the oxford union thanks to our panel thanks for watching thank you charles liu the tea.

because some really life is shallow as a round of a plate here a quasi some heavy rain or the pos of argentina three power pushing right up through bolivia and on into prove these pictures coming out of northern prudy heavy downpours here big down poles have led to widespread flooding and indeed the old mudslide as well a couple prices will go on for quite some time shows continue there across a similar region then for much of peru because some rather wet weather through bolivia really heavy downpours there into power why europe was still saying simply out of the right twenty five celsius and. never really too far away and sunday does a little wet today still that weather pushes right up into rio and beyond that's

the showers across the amazon basin as well but it spots and want to see showers also extend their way into well colombia some big downpours have some wet weather that it's pushing up towards panama as well but up into the caribbean it's fine and dry absolutely lovely weather here twenty nine thirty celsius the little bit a fair weather cloud full sob but essentially it will be settled across the main islands at least essential american there are a few showers around could just catch you out shallow the into costa rica and their deceased and possibly still rather wet. the weather sponsored by qatar is. a three year investigation into the pro-gun lobby. and i three million dollars of what it should. reveal secrets and connections some don't want exposed. as a lot of the world. gets a full. al-jazeera investigations how to sell

a massacre coming soon the rifles are so many guns sometimes even. this is al-jazeera. hello and welcome to this. live from doha i'm not seeing that is coming up in the next sixty minutes handcuffed and shackled the main suspect in the new zealand shootings remains silent in court as he's charged with. new zealand it is you know i think it is growing and we are united in our race. offering sympathy support andrea sure in this new zealand's prime minister meets.