and work with u.s. forces there's been a lot of criticism here in the united states that this syria withdrawal policy or movement policy has really abandoned those kurdish fighters that assisted the united states now we know and what we're hearing is that it was kurdish intelligence not only in syria but also in iraq that led to the locating of the isolator so this is something that the u.s. president is going to have to ratify and this is something that we expect he may or may not address speaking more broadly to the intelligence services here in the united states that is certainly given some of the things he has said repeatedly about those intelligence services i don't think that one announcement is going to do much to counter that but certainly we expect that the u.s. president may try to ignore all age the very hard work of the kurdish fighters the kurdish intelligence in order to achieve this announcement we expect him to make any moment to america point ken really a very very good point the kurds indeed appear to have been part of this this operation all right kimberly stay close we'll get right back to you let's pivot now

to morrow bashar who's now a serious senior political analyst he joins us now from london i guess more on just your 1st reaction to the the likelihood it seems that isis leader is as either been killed or killed himself in this raid. well of that's an important development at least for those countless victims in iraq syria and elsewhere that suffered both under the rule and the wrath of the islamic state and that's been going on you know for almost a decade under a will but good by that the end before the for his predecessors. of all matter about daddy so for many countless victims for many of those who suffer than continue to suffer in iraq syria and elsewhere this is a very important day and no no no doubt it's also an important and symbolic day for

the united states of been fighting islamic state but you know there's always a but a loss in syria for so many and i've been sort of watching a bit of what's going on in this social media already this morning and you can already detect so many saying well yes one butcher is is dead but what about the other butcher in damascus and the same thing in iraq he did notice that while many people are probably relieved. by that they could be dead but many have already also moved on and many today are basically looking for bread then and butter in you know in the various parts of iraq so a lot of relief probably in the middle east but also a lots of challenges ahead still so it sounds like you're saying this is just a small piece of what of what people actually need maybe someone needed this because of something horrible that happened in their family or these c.d.'s or any number of atrocities but it sounds like you're saying that this is

a symbolic thing that there are much more tangible things that people need what their lives. well certainly for many who suffered the this is a major thing but let's remember this is not the beginning of the battle against the islamic state physically in terms of its presence on the ground this is sort of the end of phase one meaning isis has been destroyed on the ground in iraq and syria and the killing of its leader 9 years after he took power. is of course an end of an era as it were but also perhaps the beginning of another for the islamic state so for those who suffered under this stomach state the last 9 years the the rats of of this topic state has already has also been relieved of them to a large degree when the americas and the iraqis and others defeated the islamic state so what has that does that mean really the doesn't really mean the islamic

state has been totally defeated of course not you know that's exactly my brush and whatever the next phase then. you know i think the next stage is the previous stage if i could put it that way meaning what we've known about those sort of jihadi terrorist groups there with us with the spring of al-qaeda in the 1990 s. and of course through the unfortunate 2001 the disastrous 2001 attack on new york and washington what we've known is that there was because it's spin network sigman to put it centric it illogically network groups meaning it had a sort of a branding franchise of sorts word many groups around the world came under its umbrella and it just was very much working in the shadows from the mountains of afghanistan to the subsidies and on to the philippines and iraq and so on so forth and when isis came about with our little wants especially abut the they decided to

establish a physical caliphate on a physical piece of land in this case in iraq and syria this was a totally new thing for vision had to groups that scored a 2.0 now for many they became envious that their stomachs that actually controlled territories controlled even a currency of sort police of sort stablish a stomach law of sort and so on and so forth but with the destruction of the islamic state after it proved a complete failure in the way it handled itself in iraq and syria i think we're going to we are back to our. system which is the spin system which is. the stomach state becoming once again a franchise branding system of sort where different groups from measure to the philippines simply go under its wings calling themselves branches of the islamic state no longer establishing any any kind of control or any kind of credit or

physically on the ground and the middle east how do you add in fights that obviously it's got to be beyond physically fighting that it's got to be fighting that ideology how how do you do that has there been any. policy that see even been remotely successful in doing that. well what we have here today is of course 3 american presidents try to fight it and of course there are a good number of leaders and society in the middle east trying to fight it but in us fight is the americans in the way they took on that it just like just like but president obama took on osama bin laden the idea here is we're moving away from the bush. strategy of both deployment and the ground occupation invasions of countries and so on so forth onto the obama more mode of more modest operandi of special operations drones intelligence operations and so on so forth and i think

there's so many ways despite the very different style of governing despite the very different way of talking despite the very disparities of of intellectual standards but as then trump is following in the footsteps of president obama meaning he wants less troops on the ground lighter footprints on the ground in the greater middle east and that's where he would draw american more american forces from syria in favor of special operations special operations special operation forces throughout the greater middle east and indeed africa and asia where america can be just as light just as more bile as al qaida and the islamic state brand meaning if that then islam is the going to be more by the working the shadows american forces are also going to be immobile and walking in the shadows and just as time except i'm a guy that will organize in ways that are in the in the in the in within

communities and within cities and urban urban been population also so forth as much as within the internet and so on so on i think what we're going to notice from western american and even middle eastern leaders that kind of a strategy where it will have a public relation aspect to it it will have. an intelligence aspect to it and certain it will have an s.s. a nation special operation aspects to it as well ok i marwan we're going to bring someone else into the conversation thanks for your for your insights so let's bring in a tosca name our correspondent who is live for us and back that so natasha if this in fact is true that the leader of eisel has been actually were stay and stay there in the top and that's why the president trying to speaking now let's listen

last night the united states brought the world's number one terrorist leader to justice abu a car al baghdadi is dead he was the founder and leader of isis the most ruthless and violent terror organization anywhere in the world the united states has been searching for big daddy for many years capturing or killing baghdad he has been the top national security priority of my administration u.s. special operations forces executed a dangerous and daring nighttime raid in northwestern syria and accomplished their mission in grand style the u.s. personnel were incredible i got to watch much of it

no personnel were lost in the operation while a large number of baghdad these fighters and companions were killed with him he died after running into a dead internal whimpering and crying and screaming all the way the compound had been cleared by this time with people either surrendering or being shot and killed 11 young children were moved out of the house and are an injured. the only ones remaining were baghdadi in the tunnel and he had dragged 3 of his young children with him they were lead to certain death he reached the end of the tunnel as our dogs chased him down

he ignited his vest killing himself and the 3 children his body was mutilated by the blast the tunnel had caved in on it in addition a test results gave certain immediate and totally positive identification it was him the thug who tried so hard to intimidate others spent his last moments in utter fear in total panic and dread terrified of the american forces bearing down on him we were in the compound for approximately 2 hours and after the mission was accomplished we took highly sensitive material in it from ation from the raid much having to do with isis origin's future plans things that

we very much want. daddy's demise demonstrates america's relentless pursuit of terrorist leaders and our commitment to the enduring and total defeat of isis and other terrorist organizations our reach is very long as you know last month we announce that we recently killed homs a bin laden the very violent son of a sama bin laden who is saying very bad things about people about our country about the world he was the heir apparent to al qaeda. terrorists to oppress and murder innocent people should never sleep soundly knowing that we will completely destroy them these savage monsters will

not escape their fate and they will not escape the final judgment of god baghdadi has been on the run for many years long before i took office but in my direction as commander in chief of the united states we owe blitter it his caliphate 100 percent in march of this year today's events are another reminder that we will continue to pursue the remaining isis terrorists to their brutal end that also goes for other terrorist organizations they are likewise in our sights baghdadi and the losers who work for him and losers they are they had no idea what they were getting into in some cases they were very frightened

puppies in other cases they were hard core killers but they killed many many people their murder of innocent americans james foley stephen saat law peter cass sick and kayla miller were especially heinous the shocking publicized murder of jordanian pilot a wonderful young man spoke to the king of jordan they all knew him they all loved he was burned alive in a cage for all to see and the execution of christians in libya and egypt as well as the genocidal mess better of the cities. rank isis among the most to pray for organizations the history of our

world the forced religious conversions the are in suits prior to so many beheadings all of which were openly displayed for the world to see this was all that abu a car alba gotti this is what he wanted this is what he was proud of he was a sick and depraved man and now he's got a daddy who is vicious and violent and he died in a vicious and violent way as a coward running and crying this raid was impeccable and could only have taken place with the acknowledgement and help of certain other nations

and people i want to thank the nations of russia turkey syria and iraq and i also want to thank the syrian kurds for certain support they were able to give us says of very very dangerous mission thank you as well to the graded teligent professionals who helped make this very successful journey possible i want to thank the soldiers and sailors airmen and marines involved in last night's operation you are the very best there is anywhere in the world no matter where you go there is nobody even close i want to thank general mark milley and our joint chiefs of staff and i also want to thank our professionals who work in other agencies of the united states government. and were critical to the mission's unbelievable success

last night was a great night for the united states and for the world a brutal killer one who has cause so much hardship and death has violently been eliminated he will never again harm another innocent man woman or child he died like a dog he died like a coward the world is now a much safer place god bless america thank you and of course. we had him under surveillance for a couple of weeks we knew a little bit about where he was going where he was heading. we had very good information that he was going to another location he didn't go to

a 3 efforts were cancelled because he decided to change his mind constantly changing his mind and finally we saw that he was here held up here we knew something about the compound we knew it had tunnels the tunnels were dead end for the most part there was one we think that wasn't but we had that covered too just in case. the level of intelligence the level of work was it was pretty amazing. when we landed with 8 helicopters a large crew of brilliant fighters ran out of those helicopters and blew holes into the side of the building not wanting to go through the main door because that was booby trapped. and there was something there was something really amazing to see i got to watch it along with general milley vice president pence others.

in the situation room and we watched it. so to literally. and if you want to well i don't want to say how but we had absolutely perfect as though you were watching a movie it was that with that in it the technology there alone is is really great. a big part of the trip that was of great danger was the. it was approximately an hour and 10 minute flight and we were flying over a very very dangerous territory in fact some of our leaders said that that could be the most dangerous flying in flying out and that's why last night we were so quiet about it we didn't say anything and i didn't make my remark until after they had landed safely in a certain area but the flight in the flight out was. a very very dangerous part there was a chance that we would have met unbelievable fire. russia treated us

great they opened up we had to fly over certain russia areas russia held areas russia was great. iraq was excellent we really had great cooperation and you have to understand they didn't know what we were doing and where we were going exactly but the isis fighters are hated as much by russia and some of these other countries as they are by us and that's why i say they should start doing a lot of the fighting now and they'll be able to i really believe they'll be able to yes jennifer. gave us not a military role at all but they gave us some information that turned out to be helpful. the kurds. who was the role of. turkey we dealt with them they know we were going in.

we flew over some territory they were terrific no problem they were not problem you know they could start shooting and then we will take them out but a lot of bad things can happen plus it was a very secret mission we flew very very low and very very fast but it was a big it was a very dangerous part of the mission getting in and getting out to equal we wanted in identical we took an identical route we met with gunfire coming in. but it was local gunfire that gunfire was immediately terminated these people are amazed they had that the gunfire terminated immediately meeting they were shot from the airships. pulled out. of. the characters in. this. from the 1st day i

came to office and now we're getting close to 3 years i would say where's al baghdadi i want al baghdadi and we would kill terrorist leaders but there were names i never heard of they were names that weren't recognizable and they were the big names some good ones some important ones but they weren't the big names i kept saying which is al baghdadi and a couple of weeks ago they were able to scope them out you know these people of various bar at the not into the use of cell phones anymore they're not they're very technically brilliant you know they use the internet better than almost anybody in the world perhaps other than donald trump. but they use the internet incredibly well and what they've done with the internet through recruiting and everything and that's why he died like a dog he died like a coward he was whimpering screaming and crying and frankly i think it's something

that should be brought out so that his followers and all of these young kids that want to leave various countries including the united states they should see how he died he didn't die a hero he died a coward crying whimpering screaming and bringing 3 kids with him to die a certain death and he knew the tunnel had no end i mean it was a it was a closed closed end of a quarter closed and tunnel not a good place to be. here. for him for 3 years i've been looking for him i started getting some very positive feedback about a month ago and we had some incredible intelligence officials that did a great that's what they should be focused on. whatever this operations. are and. this operation started 2 weeks ago in terms of the real operation because we

had him scoped we thought he'd be in a certain location he was things started checking out very well. we were involved in on our own team were some brilliant people who have gotten to know brilliant people that love our country highly intelligent people and we we've had it pretty well scoped out for a couple of weeks but he tends to change immediately he had a lot of cash he tends to change like on a dime where he'll be going to a certain location all of a sudden he'll go someplace else and you have to cancel. but this was one where we knew he was there and you can never be 100 percent sure because you're basing it on technology more than anything else but we thought he was there and then we got a confirmation and when we went in. they were greeted with a lot of firepower lot of firepower i say these guys they do

a job they are so brave and so good and so importantly a many of his people were killed. and we'll announce the exact number over the next 24 hours but many were killed we lost nobody think of that it's incredible. over the last question are below the surface actually that the canine was hurt when into the tunnel but we lost nobody question to the questions of fly over the area the home where you spoke to the russian city tell them we told them we're coming in and they said thank you for telling us they were very good. you know i did not know why. we didn't tell them we think you're going to be very happy because you know again they hate isis as much as we do you know what isis has done to russia so no we did not tell they did not

know the mission but they knew we were going over an area that they had been they had a lot of firepower. you know the rest of it is about the most. we've notified some others are being notified now as i speak. we were going to notify him last night but we decided not to do that because washington leaks like i've never seen before there's nothing there's no country in the world that leaks what like we do and washington is a leaking machine and i told my people we will not notify them until the our great people are out not just in but out i don't want to have them greeted with fire para like you wouldn't believe so we were able to get in it was top secret it was kept there were no leaks no nothing the only people that knew with a few people that i dealt with and again mark really in the joint chiefs of staff were incredible. we had some tremendous backup robert o'brian

secretary esper secretary pompei oh pence i told you he was great we this is a very small group of people that knew about this we had very very few people we it a leak a leak could've caused the death of all of them now this so good that i think nothing was going to stop them anyway you want to know that that's how good they were we had them also surrounded by mess of air power up in the air yesterday surrounded at very high levels with very low we had tremendous air power all of this from those who were you with. secretary esper a few of the joint chiefs mark milley some generals we had some very great military people in that room and we had some great intelligence people robert

o'bryant. really good yes with. the us is the very last month to retire with this phrase we are all over the pullout right shirt straight question and you do a great job by the way your network is fantastic they're really doing a great job please let them know. know the pullout had nothing to do with this in fact we found this out at a similar time it's a very good question because we found this out at a similar time no we're after these leaders and we have others in sight very bad ones but this was the big one this is the biggest one. perhaps that we've ever captured because this is the one that built isis and beyond and was looking to rebuild it again very very strongly looking to build it again that's why he went to this province this is why he went to this area you know a lot of people i was watching this morning and hearing and they said why was he there people were so surprised well that's where he was trying to rebuild from

because that was the place that made most sense if you're looking to rebuild yeah. so he said that right after i knew they had landed safely when they were brother and that was to notify you guys that you have something figures morning so you wouldn't be out playing golf or tennis we were or were they or otherwise being indisposed we really were they were i'd rather not say but we landed in a very friendly port in a friendly country. give you any pause about your decision to withdraw now i think it's great look we don't want to keep soldiers between syria and turkey for the next 200 years they've been fighting for hundreds of years we're out but we are leaving soldiers to secure the oil and we may have to fight for the oil that's ok maybe somebody else wants you know which case they have

a hell of a fight. but there's massive amounts of oil and we're securing it for a couple of reasons number one it stops isis because isis got tremendous wealth from that oil we have taken it secured number 2 and again somebody else may claim it but either we'll negotiate a deal with whoever is claiming it if we think it's fair or we will militarily stop them very quickly we have tremendous power in that part of the world we have you know the airport is right nearby a very big very monsters very. very powerful airport and very expensive airport that was built years ago were in there for where in the middle east now for 8 trillion dollars so we don't want to be keeping syria and turkey they're going to have to make their own decision the kurds have worked along incredibly with us but in all fairness it was much easier dealing with the kurds after they went through 3

days of fighting because that was a brutal 3 days and if we would have said to the kurds hey do you mind moving over 7 miles because you know they were in the middle mostly so you have 7 or 8 miles could you mind moving over because i have to say turkey has taken tremendous deaths from that part of the world you know we call it a safe zone but it was anything but a safe zone turkey has lost thousands and thousands of people from that safe so so they've always wanted that saves their own for many years i'm glad i was able to help them get it but we don't want to be there we want to be home i want our soldiers home or fighting something that's meaningful i'll tell you who loves us being there russia and china because while they built their military with depleting our military there so russia loves us being there now russia likes us big there for 2 reasons because we kill isis we kill terrorists and they're very close to russia we're

a 1000 miles away. now maybe they can get here but we've done very well with homeland security and the ban which by the way is approved by the united states supreme court as you know you know it was a reporter that said we lost the case and he was right in the early could he refused he didn't want to say just refused to say that we won the case in the supreme court so you know but we have a very effective ban and it's very hard for people to come to our country but it's many thousands of miles away whereas russia is right there turkey's right there syria is there there were right there has been a rand is right there iraq is right there they all hate isis so we don't you know in theory they should do something or give you something else the european nations have been a tremendous disappointment because i personally called but my people called a lot take your isis fighters and they didn't want to they said we don't want they

came from france it came from germany they came from the u.k. they came from a lot of countries and i actually said to him you don't take i'm going to drop a red on you border and you could have fun capturing them yet but the united states taxpayer is not going to pay for the next 50 years you see what guantanamo costs we're not going to pay tens of billions of dollars because we were good enough to capture people that want to go back to germany france u.k. and other parts of europe and they can walk back they can't walk to our country we have lots of water in between our country and them so yeah you much that you'd met some got to know some brilliant people long this process really helped provide information and answers and advice along the way so any one in particular would you like to give anyone credit for getting to this point today well i would but if i mention one i have to mention so many i spoke to senator richard burr this morning

and as you know he's very involved with intelligence and the committee and he's a great gentleman. i spoke with lindsey graham just a little while ago in fact.