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tv   Up Front 2019 Ep 13  Al Jazeera  November 10, 2019 7:32am-8:01am +03

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caps on oil production you had experts say it's highly probable an airstrike on a migrant detention center in libya was carried out by a state allied to warlord khalifa haftar the draft report declined to name the country but allies include the united arab emirates and egypt the attack in july near the capital tripoli killed more than 50 people and wounded at least 130 others . cambodian opposition leader cam soca has been freed from house arrest for 2 years after being charged with treason his release comes a day off the rails either co-founder of. the a rise in the lives of exile france as a result of these demonstrations from mr jones and the group from over the years that's up front now. the prime minister. if you believe the british on the 31st about to leave this country the greatest
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place on the british departure is delayed. follow the drama the brick sit on al-jazeera we will not receive even one muslim that's the view of my guest today who speaks on behalf of the recently we elected nationalist polish government all i ask him if he's defending a racist immigration policy. dominic touch inskeep thank you for joining me on up front you're an m.p. and an m.e.p. elect for poland's law and justice party which was recently reluctant to government and which is often criticized for being anti immigrant anti refugee but actually you're not anti immigrant and refugee you're ok with white christian immigrant from
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ukraine you've taken around 2000000 of them in you're just not ok it seems what brown muslim refugees from the middle east white people find brown people not find there's a word for that isn't there dominic. good evening thank you for having me it has nothing to do with. it hasn't it hasn't it has nothing to do with the religion i keep repeating it for last 4 or 5 years it's all about safety and the common sense it's not law it's not about ukrainians who are allowed to come to poland it's about illegal migrants who wants to cross our borders and if you're brown and white yellow wall or whatever if you want to cross our border illegally you're not allowed we are reacting well 1st of all plenty of people are coming into your illegally as asylum seekers you have a legal right to asylum from places like syria but you say it's not about religion you said quote we will not receive even one muslim because this is what we promised
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you didn't say illegal immigrants you said we will not receive even one muslim it has nothing to do with the muslim religion it's not islamophobia is someone's trying to tell us it's all of this moment and this 5 that at 2015 started this madness and now this is a problem about muslims mainly coming to europe i'm surprised they are not going to saudi arabia qatar or any other rich muslim countries that would that would feel much better isn't it you say. modernise i mean follow the law the e.u. has a law there's a refugee convention there's a universal declaration human rights. advocate general which advises the european court of justice found this week that your country broke in 2015 when poland refused to share the refugee burden so it's your country your government dominick that's undermining european values european laws no immigrants not refugees not muslims. no not at all this judgment was not about poland only was about hungary
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and others and also this judgment descendant was about all countries which did not fully the expectations you have to remember that the quota systems were a system which failed was very clear about the numbers so even germany and france did not receive as many as they should for us that was very clear in 2015 we promise that we will never agree for a quarter system and our promises are are kept the whole migration crisis it's a global think europe is not responsible for what is happening in syria poland is not responsible for this what is happening in iraq in syria in other other places we never had any colonies so if this problem is a global problem where is saudi arabia where is qatar where are the other arab countries reach our countries which should help they can help as a great example 100000 tents used only once a year during depôt pilgrimage 4000000 people can take this shelter and leave their
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4 year there empty nice nice beautiful tents air conditioned tents they are empty well you do realize that lebanon has taken in tiny lebanon's taken over a 1000000 syrians one in 5 of the population in lebanon is a refugee turkey has more syrian refugees than any country in the world so must the majority of the summer during the summer agree with you you also say in another interview that this is about christian culture this is about europe being christian now you tell me no it's all about legality i feel like you're all over the place are you objecting to from syria because they're not christian or because they know they shouldn't be in poland which one you seem to be all for different excuses the different times you have to apply polish law is very clear about it submit your documents apply for a visa get the back criminal back and then we going to decide we are not forced by any law to agree for that. it's the same in america even if you have
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a visa and you're trying to enter u.s. you still you still might here no you're not allowed and there's no explanation no one of from the u.s. side they don't have to really. they don't understand why you're not allowed myself they don't with us if you settle for if you haven't said. if you haven't bragged about the fact that you don't have mosques in poland i mean it sounds like you don't want them there because you're on the islam ok so let me let me go through the legal path to the society so legally you have to apply legally you're allowed to apply and this is up to us if we agree to to have you in poland that's number one then our society our structure i keep repeating that in many mosques we can hear about the draw for us home again excite the christian society is a value for me. multicultural society it's not a value i used to live in and on them i used to live there for 5 years i used to
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work in us and i see the fruits of multiculturalism for me it's not it's not a very choose for me it's not a value so we have a right to think about our future in a way we want to so christian culture roman law greek philosophers these are devout differentials for us it's funny that you know it's funny that you mention can i jump in once i get sharia law in europe ok i am i am i don't remember let me think i'm english lives in your country doesn't mean you have sharia law you mentioned london the mayor of london is a muslim does the sharia law let me ask you this you mention london some would say it's hypocritical that you don't want muslims in poland because i mean are you having it as if you're the shark is pretty i mean finish your question let me finish the question and he would say it's hypocritical that you say you don't want muslim immigrants in your country because they commit crimes there's a security threat and yet you hear exactly the same rhetoric about polish immigrants in the u.k. from right. when politicians and media that they say the polls are groping women
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they're feckless criminals they won't integrate don't you see the irony or the hypocrisy of treating muslim immigrants to poland in the same way that some jail them some british children treat polish immigrants ok how many poles blow themselves up in london or any other place in the world that's the question i keep read there is a lot and i'm going to down to the whole issue of what is according to the right wing that ailes and others because of their religion are helping it dominate your argument does it would just last month no no no no no no i mean. well how many of them blow themselves up ok let me answer your question in this way a polish immigrant was charged with the rape and murder of a british student last month how would you feel if people in the u.k. started saying we don't want poles there anymore we don't want rapists and murderers here that's what you say about most of your generalize about all muslims in the same way that some on the right in the u.k. generalize about polls there's a lot of polish racism in the u.k. do you not see the irony that you are doing the same thing to muslims as is done to poles. no no 1st of all if someone if anyone committing
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a crime should be jailed it doesn't matter as a polish english or anyone else that's number one crimes which you mentioned are not committed in the name of a law. they are just criminals we talk about here details but why not number one why not. i don't know i wonder why should it be. about was it not the terrorists as you know. almost terrorists are muslims that's not true as you know in fact that's not what you dream of the most of the far right terrorist attacks of the us this year were from a committed a crime they should be it's funny you say most terrorists are muslim this is one of the worst terrorist attacks that we saw was in new zealand. one of the worst terrorist attacks this year due to the high profile was the murder of more than 50 muslims in new zealand by a christian far right white supremacist and he's jailed. some muslims are
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jailed as well what's your point should i blame all white christians for what that man in new zealand did my point is that they the difference between our reaction after day new zealand was condemnation i do condemn that everyone condemning it after the terror attacks we can hear from a mum's. that's their thread because you know and they want to kill all the nothing lies. between what a large evil is a. terrorist can just google it just google it ok you can google also the charlie hebdo ok ok you say this is this is a lie it is a lie just a little of it i will use. this quiz got you got hate preachers there are just indeed so all the moms that you said all the moms clapping let me ask you this dominic after the charlie hebdo attacks you had the king of joy you know you don't have fight bridges in a christian churches that's not true either of the charlie hebdo attacks you had
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the king of jordan the prime minister of turkey the foreign minister of egypt the president of the palestinian authority numerous leaders from the most the majority will literally march through the streets of paris in solidarity with the non muslim victims of those attacks i don't remember seeing you or any other member of the polish government marching in christchurch new zealand in solidarity with the muslim. i don't remember seeing you marching in christ church all the solidarity all the solidarity candles and all this painting on the floor it's a joke but where we need this guy was you know i don't remember seeing. dometic i develop to see how you would have a polish government marching in new zealand set up why didn't you do what we muslim leaders did because most. of the needed marches we have our borders which are safe that's got nothing to do with the question christian far right nationalist carried out an attack in new zealand if you will saying muslims should condemn a muslim attack which they did why didn't you go to new zealand and condemn that attack why did you watch like muslim leaders did in paris why did you march in
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question. think that this muslims this preachers this in noms are so peaceful let them go to saudi arabia let them go to qatar if you want to be a refugee you have to flee to the free states country neighbor country then you have to apply you have to prove who you are and now we are having people in europe which is not poland is not a neighbor of syria without documents or 5 passports the same picture and different names that's just a fact from our interview ministers so it's all about safety you're trying to put the whole subject in a box of islamophobia even even if no believe are going to put this we will not let him in if he is illegal that says let me go back to my question would you avoided answering the christchurch shooter was an immigrant he was a christian he was a white nationalists who killed muslims and he had on his weaponry references to
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a bottle in which a king of poland defeated muslim invaders he had the name of a polish military commander and one of his weapons so i ask again why didn't you according to your own logic go to christ and disown him say this has nothing to do with us nothing to do with poland or christianity that's what you expect of muslims why didn't you do that in new zealand i ask again thank you very much thank god for king sobieski stop muslims in vienna thank god the. world by the way and i'm not going to react on any who is trying to use our beautiful history for a terror attack a market muslim say the same do you don't see the logic of your position. says about one of her advised them not not at all ok i got asked a question and i want to talk about the broader cultural point because you have said in a previous interview this is about culture this is about preserving christian culture in europe i'm saying to you white supremacists of carried out horrific terrorist attacks this year in el paso texas san diego california christchurch new
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zealand and they have talked about stopping mosques stopping the invasion of muslims protecting christian culture it's virtually the same language that is used by your party and by you there is an overlap we can see that with our eyes it's the same rhetoric. the difference is the difference is we're not shooting if someone is a terrorist or killer a criminal should be jailed you're not shooting but are you inciting the violence by using that rhetoric of invasions and stopping most if not do not compare me to the criminal i'm comparing the rhetoric not you i'm saying the rhetoric is similar is it not or are you denying that it sounds like you're agreeing 1st of all as i said it's not it's against our law that's number one it's against our culture and that culture is very important as i told you we are christian college country we don't he drive in poland we don't poland being taken over by muslims buddhists or someone else for us christianity is identity as our d.n.a. is a very important and our government has a right to say no and no one will ever force us to take muslims buddhists
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nonbelievers in huge numbers. but we are helping by sending money because our government is very straight we have people help we have to help in the place of the conflict in syria in iraq that's it do not force us to do things which our society doesn't want that's why our government was elected that's why we have one double intelligence he thanks for joining me on outfront. another year another controversy about the veil in from after a mother was verbal abuse by a far right politician during her son's school visit to a regional assembly the debate over the veil islam and secularism in france has kicked off once again with one journalist even comparing the hit job to a nazi uniform so is this really about head coverings or secularism or given the recent attack on a mosque and from a former member of marine le pen's far right party it's really about french muslims
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being constantly demonized some sort of enemy within joining me to debate this our . international human rights research are focusing on religious freedom and civil liberties and benjamin had a director at the atlantic council and the former d.c. representative of president emanuel mccrum presidential campaign thank you both for joining me in the arena reman you heard the president of this regional assembly who belongs to marine le pen's far right party when you heard of this verbal attack that he made on a muslim mother wearing his job on a school trip accompanying her kid demanding she take it off in the name of french secularism before he and others from his party stormed out of the chamber what was your reaction how surprised were you. i was not surprised but at the same time i realized that we have again and maybe even more reach a point of no return. when you see the reaction of this person in how we amplify a problem that actually is not really
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a problem when i so this kid crying this mother was. with a kid somewhere and got her son well there. she was just literally giving her free time to help our understaffed underpaid teacher to go with kids and helping the staff and being treated that way my 1st reaction was this is getting worse where are we going this is not my country it's getting worse the council president's actions would lead to widespread condemnation from would you add your voice to those condoms yes absolutely i mean this is a humiliation of a woman who exactly is remiss said was accompanying her kid to school giving her free time to public school this is actually a sign of integration in the way it's pretty disappointing to the life of the community so i think on this there is widespread agreement that she should not have been treated this way prison she said it was humiliating the spokesperson said it was
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a shame on the republic so there is it is but it's education minister who did condemn the abuse then went on to say it's not forbidden by the law but the headscarf is not desirable in our society it's a simple how does a mother supposed to feel when the education minister comes out and says that has a cover yes but so on so this is it it is a very complicated question so you know there's a few things i mean 1st in france you know you have a tradition of secularism and separation strict separation of church and state that's only reinforced by a law 15 years ago saying that no ostentation sign religious science should be in within the public service within the school or within a city hall for example and that goes for the head job but also for a keeper for a visible cross and you know. this goes back to a long tradition in france that actually is mostly by the catholic church in muslims this is not muslims being singled out and it is not but it is true that we have a hard time having a rational debate about this and i regret the fact that each time you have these controversies those singled out do muslims and fronts feel singled out by the
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secularism argument absolutely and the problem the irony is only want to to be applied as in relation to us here to protect religious freedom but we are witnessing a transformation of a city into a legal mts terror that it was not aimed to be when the law was implementing and this is dangerous because here we have religious freedom at stake but also. can stand terrorists win and target of a part of our population to whom we say we do not belong so unless asked but you look as to do you recognize that description constant targeting and harassment of a section of the population french muslims well i think it's true that the debate has shifted to a place where there's lots of confusion and it targets islam and muslims and there's lots of mixes i completely agree with that the law is there and we don't need to extend the law but there is a 2nd question which is on the personal basis i was on the force offical basis what
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do you do cation ministers what a lot of feminist leaders say liberal leaders in france say is that they don't see this as desirable or this think that in a society this is seen as something that could be a sign of betrayal coarsest design is extreme religious conservatism would you accept that description them up there there are minorities in every religious community. but if you want to call it observe the reaction of regressive liberals have a trouble dealing with my 1st question would be. who decide what he does or rebel or not these constant idea that only one group of people decide for the other we're going to free you. but on our terms this is not limited to me when your critics say that society decides the public decide it's a democracy right now to a recent poll found that 2 thirds of people in france said they would be in favor of banning the headscarf on school trips so as much as possible agree with it he's
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going against public opinion on that well what does that make opinion when those polls are done right after huge controversy and we can see that after a presidential election except for let me tell you what happened on the ground without me it's mothers there would not be there would not be any school trips they give their time let me tell you something maybe even more sad. when a muslim woman where he job and when she cleans the toilet of the next c.e.o. who will come and be able to work in clean of is when a muslim woman wearing a hijab take care of our elders because literally nobody want to take that jobs nobody cares about the he job this is nice lay in our fat who bring us pastries every morning however assume that this woman or their kids 2nd 3rd generation who studied in the school of the rep of big who know their right start to be visible to know their right to move along to love france we tell them hold on a 2nd you do not fit in our society we are going to decide how you will fit but you
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also know that a lot of these women who have been tremendous success of integration as you mentioned also sometimes the most vocal saying that they want to push back against salafi groups of religious conservatives were actually sometimes the most hawkish on the head job in the french conversation that's something that doesn't really transpire sometimes to france but you have a lot of secular muslim women who say that they feel pressure if we are frightened that you know if we talk about experiences on the ground you also have religious leaders going to mayors asking to have separate hours in public swimming pools between men and women you'll have a lot of young girls who don't want to sit in biology classes in schools because they feel pressure from their parents or from their from their brothers you have neighborhoods where you have a form of religious conservatism that has imposed itself and that makes it very complicated for young women and you know other groups which is gays are just beattie's to express themselves and so as you said who decides once again i do
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think the law we have right now is correct but i think it's also acceptable for people feminist strategic ation minister people in the political debate to say you have a right to do this but we also have a right to say that there are certain behaviors that we consider to not be a good sign of integration as an outsider you're both from. when i look at the french debate i think ok you can have interesting debates about feminism in job they're happening all over the world perhaps more intensely in front of other places but big picture just the other day a guy was stopped from entering a mosque where he planned to massacre a group of muslims he crows are on the rise across western europe when that's the context you're operating in is it really the level of attention and coverage and political debate given to an article of clothing worn by women in the minority community really should that really be the top story should the top story really be the racism the far right the possible violence that's coming from that direction i just think there's a disproportionate and i refuse to acknowledge the 1st on that on that attack which
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is horrible we should be able to condemn it we should be able to be extremely force for against religion and. religious based hate hate. and violent acts but at the same time have a have a conversation about integration about you know all of these things that make you know again like you're saying we should have a responsible come discussion about these important issues and be able to condemn i'm saying that's not really happening in france and would you would you think that's actually happening if you know what you've done for i will tell you something though in 20152016 with a string of terrorist attacks just like no other country in the west and at the end we elected a moderate someone who actually has an inclusive and universal message on this with 70 percent of the population is muslim it is more like you know in a state you have less than one percent muslim you have someone who has been elected president wants to ban them from the u.s. territory there's a lot of progress to be made i mean i just don't think measure to be sure i get we're better than trouble is not going to go that far but let me ask you this very
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sort of calm muslim air of london. could that happen in paris any time soon to see a muslim or of parents of course of course it could happen that we have ministers of justice we have to be politicians what you think about a muslim practicing muslim area of paris i want to believe absolutely and i would agree with you that it will get worse before it gets better so i think it will happen i honestly think but when you say get worse for it what do you mean by worse because if actions are coming we need to distract from actually the problem that are affecting france right now which are social and complex problem we have been having like protests and strikes for a year now i think in november and every time we have a social crisis we also have a huge crisis so at some point i think france we need to rethink what is means to be french today and france will have to choice to accept the fact that today it's a diverse country open to the world connected to the world and integrate that into
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society or be backward keep you know putting aside its people and this will play against our country among real benj we'll have to leave it there thank you both for joining me on the show and coming on the radio that's our show up from will be back next week. jail you're at the mercy of the state but in the land of the free shareholders have a stake it is this profit motive that continues to interfere with adequate health care being provided to people who are detained and incarcerated across the country salt lines investigates how the outsourcing of health care in american jails is impacting the lives and deaths of those behind bars sick inside. each of these cold related the planet but somebody's got to do it slip do you look
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to the pilots just their voice here from 18 clean safe sanitation for old but with a 3rd of the wealth lacking basic facilities can his unique style really help clean up the mass sending. the pop culture is the fastest way those softness and asian problems mr toilets eyewitness documentary announces iraq.
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let me say this you. brazil's former leader lula da silva rallies supporters against president bush but many are against this release from jail. i'm sad to say this is al jazeera live from doha so coming up. i. will be along killed in baghdad as iraqi forces storm a demonstration against the government cambodian opposition leader kim so because.

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