sanctions on russia i was pleased when the trump administration provided javelin antitank missiles and it acted stronger sanctions all to say i cared about ukraine's future and the important u.s. interests there so when secretary pump aoe asked me to go back to keep i wanted to say yes but it was not an easy decision the former ambassador mussy of on a bitch has been treated portly caught in a web of political machinations both in kieve and in washington i fear that those problems were still present i consulted both my wife and the respected former senior republican official who has been a mentor i will tell you that my wife in no uncertain terms strongly opposed the idea of the mentor council if your country asked you to do something you do it if you can be effective i could be effective only if the u.s. policy of strong support for ukraine strong diplomatic support along with robust

security economic and technical assistance were to continue and if i had the backing of the secretary of state to implement that policy and i worried about what i'd heard concerning the role of rudy giuliani who had made several controversial statements about ukraine and u.s. policy for the country so during my meeting with secretary pompeo on may 28th i made clear to him and the others president present that if the u.s. policy toward ukraine changed he would not want me posted there and i could not state issued me that the policy of strong support for ukraine would continue and that he would support me in defending that policy with that understanding i agreed to go back to cave because i was appointed by the secretary but not reconfirmed by the senate my official position was sharjah fair odd interim in effect i was the

acting ambassador to ukraine. i returned to cave on june 17th carrying the original copy of the letter president trump signed the day after i met with the secretary in that letter president trump congratulated president selenski on his election victory and invited him to a meeting in the oval office but once i arrived in cave i discovered a weird combination of encouraging confusing and ultimately alarming circumstances 1st encouraging president alinsky was reforming ukraine in a hurry he appointed reformist ministers and supported long stalled anti corruption legislation he took quick executive action including opening ukraine's high anti corruption court with a new parliamentary majority stemming from snap elections president zelinsky change the ukrainian constitution to remove absolute immunity from rada deputies the source of raw corruption for 2 decades the excitement in kiev was palpable this

time could be different the new ukraine finally breaking from its corrupt post soviet past and yet i found it confusing an unusual arrangement for making us policy towards ukraine there appeared to be 2 channels of u.s. policy making in implementation one regular and one highly irregular as the acting ambassador i had authority over the regular formal diplomatic processes including the bulk of the u.s. effort to support ukraine against russian invasion to help defeat corruption a colleague just secretary of state george kent and our colleagues at the national security council were my main points of contact in washington in this regular channel this channel is formerly responsible for formulating and overseeing the implementation of u.s. foreign policy with respect to ukraine a policy that has consistently enjoyed strong bipartisan support both in congress

and in all the ministration since ukraine's independence from russia in 1901. at the same time however i think you're encountered an irregular informal channel of u.s. policy making with respect to ukraine unaccountable to congress a channel that included then special envoy kurt volker u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon saw him secretary of energy rick perry white house chief of staff mick mulvaney and as i subsequently learned mr giuliani i was clearly in the regular channel but i was also in the irregular one to the extent that investors volcker and so on when including me and certain conversations although this a regular channel was well connected in washington it operated mostly outside of fishel state department channels irregular channel began when ambassador volker besser sonnen secretary perry and senator ron johnson briefed president trump on

may 23rd upon their return from present 7 skis and alteration the delegation was as enthusiastic as i would soon become about the new ukrainian president and urge president trump to meet with him early on to cement the us ukraine relationship but from what i understood from the participants president trump did not share their enthusiasm for a meeting with presidents alinsky when i arrived in kiev the actions of both the regular and the irregular channels of foreign policy appeared to serve the same goal a strong us ukraine partnership but it became to me it became clear to me by august that the channels had diverge to in their objectives as this occurred i became increasingly concerned in late june both channels were trying to facilitate a visit by president zelinsky to the white house for

a meeting with president from which president trump had promised in his congratulatory letter of may 29th ukrainians were clearly eager for the meeting to happen. but during my subsequent communications with them besser volcker and someone they relayed to me that the president wanted to hear from zelinsky before scheduling the meeting in the oval office it was not clear to be what this meant on june 27th investor sonnen told me during a phone conversation the president selenski needed to make clear to president trump that he presents of linsky was not standing in the way of investigations a sense something odd when investor son told me on june 28th that he did not wish to include most of the regular inner agency participants in a call planned with president to linsky later that day yes or stalin besar volcker secretary secretary perry and i were on this call dialing in from different locations however besser sonnen said he wanted to make sure no one was transcribing

or monitoring as they added presence olinsky to the call also before presence alinsky joined the call and besser volker separately told the us participants that he ambassador volker planned to be explicit with presidents olinsky in a one on one meeting in toronto on july 2nd in that meeting besser volker planned to make clear what presents lewinsky should do to get the white house meeting i did not understand what this meant but a besar volcker's said he would really that president trump one to see rule of law transparency but also specifically cooperation on investigations to get to the bottom of things once presidents alinsky join the call the conversation was focused on energy policy in the war in dumbass presence lenski also said he looked forward to the white house visit president trump had offered in his may 29th letter by mid

july he was becoming clear to me that the meeting presents alinsky wanted was conditioned on the investigations of barista and alleged craney an interference in the 26000 us elections. it was also clear that this condition was driven by the irregular policy channel i had come to understand was guided by mr giuliani in a regular in a seize secure video conference call on july 18th i heard a staff person from the office of management and budget say that there was a hold on security assistance to ukraine but could not say why for the end of an otherwise normal meeting the voice on the call the person was off screen said that she was from o.m.b. and her boss said instruct her not to approve any additional spending on security systems for ukraine until further notice i and others sat in astonishment the ukrainians were fighting russians and counted on not only the training and weapons

but also the assurance of u.s. support all that the o.m.b. staff person said was that the directive had come from the president to the chief of staff to o.m.b. in an instant i realized that one of the key pillars of our strong support for ukraine was threatened the regular policy channel was running contrary to the goals of longstanding u.s. policy there followed a series of in a ceilidh interagency meeting starting at the staff level and quickly reach reaching the level of cabinet secretaries at every meeting the unanimous conclusion was that the security system should be resumed the hold lifted at one point the defense department was asked to perform an analysis of the effectiveness of these systems within a day the defense department came back with a determination that the assistance was effective and should be resumed my understanding was that the secretaries of defense and state the cia director and the national security advisor sought a joint meeting with the president to convince him to release the hold but such

a meeting was hard to schedule and the hold lasted well into september on july 9th in a phone call with then senior director for european and russian affairs fiona hill . and director of european affairs with 10 a colonel alex bindman at the n.s.c. they tried to reassure me that they were not aware of any official change in u.s. policy toward ukraine o.m.b.'s announcement notwithstanding they did confirm that the hold up security systems for ukraine came from chief of staff mick mulvaney who maintained a skeptical view of ukraine in the same july 19th phone call they gave me an account of a july 10th meeting with ukrainian american officials at the white house they told me that part way through the meeting a besar someone had connected investigations with an oval office meeting for president alinsky which so irritated then national security adviser john bolton

that he abruptly ended the meeting telling dr hill and authentic heard of him and that they should have nothing to do with domestic politics he also directed dr hill to brief the lawyers dr hill said that ambassador bolton referred to this deal as the this is a drug deal after the july 10th beating besar bolton opposed to call between presidents alinsky and president trump out of concern that it would be a disaster needless to say the ukraine the meetings were confused besar bolton in the regular ukraine policy decision making channel want to talk about security energy and reform better some an up or to space in the irregular channel one to talk about the connection between a white house meeting and ukrainian investigations also during our july 19th call dr hill inform me that investor volker had met with mr giuliani to discuss ukraine it's got me by surprise the next day i asked him besser volcker about that meeting

but received no response i began to sense that these 2 separate decision making channels the regular and the irregular were separate and at odds. later that day i received text messages on a 3 way whatsapp text conversation with investors volker and solomon a record of which was provided by investor vote. as a sign and said that a call between president trump and presents lewinsky would take place soon as her vocals said that what was most important is for as a lynch key to say that he will help investigation and address any specific personnel issues if there are any on the next day july 20th i had a phone conversation with him besser song and while he was on a train from paris to london as an ambassador song and told me that he had recommended to present alinsky that he used the phrase i will leave no stone unturned with regard to investigations when presidents lewinsky spoke with

president drum also 20th i had a phone conversation with alexander done he took president dillon ski's national city security advisor who emphasized that presence lenski did not want to be used as an instrument in a us reelection campaign the next day i texted both investor volker and some about presence lewinsky's concern on july 25th president trump and presence alinsky had the long awaited phone conversation even though i was acting ambassador and was scheduled to meet with president lewinsky along with investor volcker the following day i received no readout of the call from the white house ukrainian government issued a short cryptic summary during a previously planned july 26th meeting president alinsky told

a besar volcker in me that he was happy with the call but did not elaborate residence lenski then asked about the face to face meeting in the oval office as promised in the may 29th letter from president trump we could give him no firm answer. after our meeting with president alinsky besar volker and i traveled to the frontline in northern dom boss to receive a briefing from the commander of forces on the line of contact arriving for the briefing in the military headquarters the commander thanked us for the security systems but i was aware that this is systems was on hold which may be uncomfortable besar volker and i could see the armed and hostile rus russian led forces on the other side of the damaged bridge across the line of contact russian led forces continue to kill ukraine's in the war one or 2 a week or more ukrainians would undoubtedly die without the us assistance although i spent the morning of july 26th with president alinsky and other ukrainian

officials the 1st summary of the july 25th from zelinsky call that i heard from anybody inside the u.s. government was during a phone call i had with jim morrison dr hill's recent replacement at the n.s.c. on july 28th mr morrison told me that the call could have been better and that president trump had suggested that presence of linsky or his staff meet with mr giuliani and president and attorney general william barr i did not see any official readout of the call until it was publicly released on september 25th by august i was becoming more concerned and aug 16th i exchanged text messages with ambassador volcker in which i learned that under your mock assume a senior adviser to presidents alinsky had asked that the united states submit an official request for an investigation into baristas alleged violations of ukrainian law if that is what the united states desire a formal u.s. u.s.

request to the ukrainians to conduct an investigation based on violations of their own law struck me as improper and i recommended to him ambassador volcker that we stay clear. to find out the legal aspects of the question however i gave him the name of a deputy assistant attorney general whom i thought would be the proper point of contact for seeking a u.s. request for a foreign investigation by mid august because these security systems had been held for over a month for no reason that i could discern i was beginning to fear that the longstanding u.s. policy of support for ukraine was shifting i called state department counselor or rich brick people to discuss this on august 21st he said he was not aware of a change in policy but would check on the status of the security assistance a concerned it deepened the next day on august 22nd during a phone conversation with mr morris and i asked him if there had been

a change in policy of strong support for ukraine to which he responded it remains to be seen he also told me during this call that the president doesn't want to provide any assistance at all that was extremely controlling to me as i had told secretary pompei when may if the policy of strong support for ukraine were to change i would have to resign based on my call with mr morse and i was preparing to do so just days later on august 27th and besar bolton arrived in cave and met with president alinsky during their meeting security systems was not discussed as far as i knew ukraine's were not aware of the hold until august 29th i on the other hand was all too aware of and still troubled by the hold near the end of ambassador bolton visit i asked to meet him privately during which i expressed to him my serious concern about the withholding of military assistance to

ukraine while the ukrainians were defending their country from russian aggression besar bolton recommended that i send a 1st person cable to secretary pump aoe directly relaying my concerns. i wrote and transmitted such a cable on august 29th describing the folly i saw in withholding military aid to ukraine at a time when hostilities were still active in the east and when russia was watching closely to gauge the level of american support for the ukrainian government the russians as i said by de deposition would love to see the humiliation of president alinsky at the hands of the americans i told the secretary that i could not and would not defend such a policy although i received no specific response i heard that soon thereafter the secretary kerry the cable with him to a meeting at the white house focused on security assistance for ukraine the same day that i sent my cable to the secretary mr your moc contacted me very concerned

asking about the withheld security assistance the hold that the white house had placed on the systems had just been made public that day in a political story at that point i was embarrassed that i could given no explanation for why it was withheld it had still not occurred to me that the hold on security assistance could be related to the investigations that however would change of september 1st just 3 days after my cable to secretary pompei 0 presence olinsky met vice president pence at a bilateral meeting in warsaw president trump had planned to travel to warsaw but at the last minute had cancelled because of hurricane dorian just hours before the penciling scheme meeting i contacted mr dunne who look to let him know that the delay of us assistance was an all or nothing proposition in the sense that if the white house did not lift the hold prior to the end of the fiscal years of timber 30 of the funds would expire and ukraine would receive nothing i was hopeful that at

the bilateral meeting or shortly thereafter the white house would lift the hold but this was not to be. on the evening of september 1st i received a readout of the penciling meeting over the phone from mr morris and during which he told me the president's alinsky had opened the meeting by immediately asking vice president about the security cooperation the vice president did not respond substantively but said that he would talk to president trump that night the vice president did say that president trump one of the europeans to do more to support ukraine and that he wanted the ukraine's to do more to fight corruption during the same phone call with mr morrison he described a conversation investor somnolent had with mr your moc in warsaw and besser solomon told mr your bach that the security assistance money would not come until president's olinsky committed to pursue the barista investigation i was alarmed by

what mr morrison told me about the sun and your ma conversation i understand that mr morrison testified at his desk deposition that investor someone proposed that might be sufficient for the ukrainian prosecutor general to commit to pursue the investigations as opposed to present selenski but this was the 1st time that i had heard that the security assistance not just the white house beating was conditioned on the investigations very concerned on that same day september 1st i sent ambassador simon a text message asking if we are now saying that the security systems as and a white house meeting are conditioned on best occasions best or stalin responded asking me to call him which i did during that phone call investor solomon told me that president trump had told him that he wants president alinsky to state publicly that ukraine will investigate boris ma and alleged ukrainian interference in the 2016 election. besser song also told me that he now recognized

that he had made a mistake by earlier telling ukrainian officials that only a white house meeting with presidents alinsky was dependent on a public announcement of the investigations in fact about their sum and said everything was dependent on such an announcement including security systems he said the president trump wanted president gilinsky in a public box by making a public statement about ordering such investigations the same for september 1st call i told him besser sonnen the president trump should have bar respect for another head of state and that what he described was not in the interest of either president trump or presidents alinsky at that point i asked ambassador sonnen to push back on president trump's demand mr sun pledge to try i suggested the possibility that ukrainian prosecutor general rather than president

leskie would make a statement about the investigations potentially in coordination with the attorney general bar's probe into the investigation of interference in the 2016 elections the next day september 2nd mr borson called to inform me that mr dunning local had asked him to come to his hotel in warsaw so done a look at presence of linsky is concerned about the possible loss of us support for ukraine in particular mr morsi relayed to me that the inability of any u.s. officials to respond to the ukrainians explicitly questions about security assistance was troubling them i was experiencing the same tension in my dealings with ukraine's including a meeting i had had with the defense minister that day on september 5th i accompanied senators johnson and murphy during their visit to keep when we met with president alinsky his 1st question to the senators was about the withheld security

assistance. my recollection of the meeting is that both centers as stressed that bipartisan support for ukraine in washington was ukraine's most important strategic asset and the presence of linsky should not jeopardize that bipartisan support by getting drawn in to us domestic politics i had been making and continue to make this point to all of my official ukrainian contacts but the odd push to make president zelinsky publicly commit to investigations of boris ma and alleged interference in the 2016 election showed how the official foreign policy of the united states was undercut by the irregular efforts led by mr giuliani 2 days later september 7th i had a conversation with mr morris in which he described a phone conversation earlier that day between a besar solomon and president trump mr morrison said that he had a sinking feeling after learning about this conversation from investor solemn

according to mr morrison president trump told investor solomon he was not asking for a quid pro quo but president trump did insist that president to linsky go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of biden and 2016 election interference and that presents a list you should want to do this himself mr morrison said that he told the besser bolton and the n.s.c. lawyers of this phone call between president trump and investor solved the following day on september 8th soliman i spoke on the phone he confirmed that he had talked to president trump as i had suggested a week earlier but that president trump was adamant that presidents alinsky himself had to clear things up and do it in public president trump said it was not a quid pro quo i believe this was the same conversation between investor solomon

and president trump that mr morgan had described to me on september 7th. besar son also said that he had talked to presidents of linsky and mr your mock and had told them that although this was not a quid pro quo if presidents alinsky did not clear things up in public we would be at a stalemate i understood a stalemate to mean that ukraine would not receive the much needed military assistance about the sun and said that this conversation concluded with presidents alinsky agreeing to make a public statement in an interview on c.n.n. shortly after that call with a besar saw and i expressed my strong reservations in a text message to investors on one stating that my nightmare is that they the ukrainians give the interview and don't get the security assistance the russians love it and i quit and i was serious the next day september 9th i said to investors

some invoker that the message to the ukrainians and the russians we send with a decision on security assistance is key with the hold we have already shaken their faith in us i also said i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with the political campaign besser song responded about 5 hours later that i was incorrect about president trump's intentions the president has been crystal clear no quid pro quos of any kind during our meeting during our call on september 8th investor someone tried to explain to me the president trump as a businessman when a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes him something the businessman asked that person to pay up before signing the check as her vocal use the same language several days later while we were together at the yalta european strategy conference i argued due to both that the explanation made no sense ukrainians did not owe president trump

anything and holding up security assistance for domestic political gain was crazy as i had said in my text message to investors on the invoker on september 9th. finally on september 11th i learned that the holden lifted and security systems would be provided i was not told the reason why the hold had been lifted the next day i personally conveyed the news to presidents alinsky and the ukrainian foreign minister and i again reminded mr your mach of the highs to t.j. value of bipartisan support for ukraine and the importance of not getting involved in other country's elections i fear the time was that sense investor someone had told me presidents alinsky had already agreed to do a c.n.n. interview resins alinsky would make a statement regarding investigations that would have played into domestic us politics aside to confirm through mr donahue look the presence of linsky was not planning to give such an interview to the media while mr dunning look initially confirmed that on september 12th i noticed during

a meeting on the morning of september 13th at present linsky is office that mr your mark looked uncomfortable in response to the question again i asked mr dunne to look to confirm that there would be no c.n.n. interview which he did lots of 10 or 25th at the un general assembly session in new york city a president trump met president alinsky face to face you also released the transcript of the july 25th call united states gave the ukrainians virtually no notice of the release and they were livid although this was the 1st time i had seen the details of president trump's july 25th call with presidents alinsky in which he mentioned vice president biden i had come to understand well before then that investigations was a term investors volcker and saddam used to mean matters related to the 2016 elections and to add to the investigations of barista and the bidens

last friday a member of my staff told me of events that occurred on july 26th while besser vulcanize bowker and i visited the front as member of my staff accompanied him besser song one investor sundin met with mr your buck. following that meeting in the presence of my staff at a restaurant besser stalin called president trump and told him of his meetings and gave the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking him besser sonnen about the investigations as a son told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward following the call with president trump the member of my staff asked investor solomon what president trump thought about ukraine as a song responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden which giuliani was pressing for at the time i gave my deposition on october 22nd

i was not aware of this information i am including it here for completeness as the committee knows i reported this information through counsel to the state department's legal adviser as well as to counsel for both the majority of the minority of this committee is my understanding that the committee is following up on this matter which chairman i recognize that this is rather a link to the recitation of the events of the past few months told from my vantage point in cave but i always read i also recognize the importance of the matters your committee is investigating and i hope that this chronology will provide some framework for your questions as i mentioned in my october 22nd deposition information and quotes in my testimony are based on my best record recollection as well as a review of my personal notes let me return to the points i made at the outset ukraine is important to the security of the united states the largest country in

europe by landmass ukraine is a young democracy struggling to join europe and allied itself with the united states it has been violently attacked by russia which continues its armed aggression against ukraine to this day. if we believe in the principle of the sovereignty of nations on which our security and this if you're any of our friends and allies depends if we believe that nations get to decide on their own economic political and security alliances we must support ukraine in its fight against its bullying neighbor russian aggression cannot stand republican and democratic administrations over 3 decades have been generous with assistance funding both civilian and military and political support with overwhelming bipartisan majorities congress has imposed harsh sanctions on russia for invading and occupying ukraine

as a chairman there are 2 ukraine stories today the 1st is the one we're discussing this morning that you have been hearing about for the past 2 weeks it's a rancorous story about whistleblowers mr giuliani side channels quid pro quos corruption interference in elections in this story ukraine is merely an object but there's another story a positive bipartisan one in this 2nd story ukraine is the subject this one is about young people and a young nation struggling to break free of its past hopeful that their new government will finally usher in a new ukraine proud of its independence from russia eager to join western institutions and enjoy a more secure and prosperous life this story describes a nation developing an inclusive democratic nationalism not unlike what we and america in our bed.