well you know. some of it i like. hello again everyone from going to here in doha the top stories on al-jazeera berm this presidential election is still 6 months away but there are concerns over security there opposition leaders say that there's a climate of fear and intimidation against those who are critical of the governing party catherine sawyer reports from. protected by when you can to cross memories of what happened 4 years ago remains low for this man he tells us his young son was shot by police while on his way to buy bread. riots started in 2015. and one a 3rd time but his opponents say it was unconstitutional street protests

a field vigilante like attacks and assassinations threatened to tear the country apart another election is due next year and the be real father says people are still being intimidated by security forces and members of the ruling party you've been called in one at a. number i am talking to you is putting at risk if the police know what i'm talking on my me because find out and tell i can be arrested kill. people here have not forgotten buddhas history of war at this ceremony they celebrate men and women who fought in another conflict in the 1990 s. the fighting stopped after an armed opposition group brought president to power he promised civil liberties ethnic cohesion and improving people's livelihoods and the height of the people would not because of them and by the president and other

revolutionary craighead. and keeping the country relatively stable but now some people accuse him of abuse they were right for almost. all those things on the. i just have one word. to repent. spreading. they are not. what. the people have made. some opposition leaders have no freedom to express themselves many have been forced into exile and independent media organizations remain shut many people. just. go on. and nothing. trying to

get to see. only. priests. hopes politics will not drive the country to the edge again. protesters in colombia are rejecting the president's promise of a national conversation and have defied a curfew in the capital concerned about tax increases and a change to the pension system a self-confessed chinese spy or a stray or say he's offered a troop of intelligence information wang li chang says he's turned against beijing he's provided details of how it funds and conducts political interference operations in hong kong taiwan and australia iraq's parliament is preparing to discuss a new electoral reform bill politicians are hoping that it will calm process that have been raging now for weeks demonstrators are demanding an overhaul of the power

sharing political system angry over corruption high unemployment and poor public services. japan and south korea have agreed to hold a summit next month in the latest side of improving diplomatic relations the talks will focus on japanese atrocities inflicted on koreans during the 2nd world all. people in the pacific island of bogun vale of voting in a referendum to decide whether to become independent from papua new guinea crowds march through the streets celebrating the start of the long awaited vote if they choose independence spoke of bill could become the world's newest country. and the headlines the news continues here on al-jazeera after studio b. unscripted next.

sometimes we are right as i think we're really close that most of this. entire relationship with the past is full of. what are my guide in my interest is the let me phrase die you my me to mesa by. i once through trial for allegedly holding off a radio station at gunpoint in defense of democracy i believe was a human problem and human being and you're quite right to say i got myself involved my name is wallace. i'm a turkish british novelist and like every storyteller i'm drawn to stories but also silence is the things we cannot talk about i have multiple attachments just like all the faster and multiple attachments means multiple stories i am in

a shack. i felt i knew a live suffolk even before i met or like when i juror she's often of loggerheads with her country's government through her works to give a voice to those who are often on her i knew as the 1st african author to win the nobel prize for literature see it really was the recognition. of creativity which goes back centuries but also in his role as a defender of feeling rights and freedom. speech i was looking forward to having an open conversation and discuss issues that i thought timely and universal and close to. what unites us makes us.

well it's such an honor to share the same stage with him you and i have been talking about the art of storytelling and what it means since states polarized worlds and i always thought especially for authors for storytellers who come from warned that the moccasins such as turkey nigeria egypt pakistan venice or the brazil the list is so long and it's getting longer i don't think as a writer from such mother lance we have the luxury of being nonpolitical. we can say i'm only going to write my stories and not really think about what's happening outside the window but one thing that draws my attention is especially after the

year 2016 i think more and more western authors to begun to feel maybe the urgency to speak up because we've seen how country after country democracy can die that history can go backwards it doesn't always necessarily go forward and you of course spoken so powerful in eloquently about the need to be vocal in our could says and then what happens to the human souls if we do not criticize tyranny i'm very glad there was starting with the very language of the storyteller let me use a separate treaty to say that. nora it is just a story to have a storyteller as a historian is a psychologist is a philosopher is a builder is a creative person so i'm very happy identifying ourselves yet about our storytellers you started off on a very difficult soul searching subject which is what is my

responsibility as a writer or does yours i don't see any special responsibility for a writer be you on the expounding the horizontal of is or community of humanity in general i know but i agree with you that some of us do don't have that luxury and i resent it i resent the fact that we burdened by that weight of history i resent that because there is something which existed before but also the colonial experience it's kind of defining as 2nd class humanity and yet we know you and i know that yes we do feel that we have to transcend a set. wrong positioning which has been given us by external

forces and then after that after we chase them out what happens. we got our internal colonisers and then you have to fight these new orders all over again to distort the history of our society our past in order to and from themselves permanently without a book or the next i think sometimes we writers especially from the quote unquote developing world 3rd wall africa i think we're really closer to my sophists there we love to take on this burden i see no other explanation for it. it is quite irrational i agree but also perhaps of course as storytellers we chase stories we chase words but i equally believe we are drawn to silence the things we can not talk about easily in a society at a given time and that includes taboos political to was helpful to. us

just to be able to ask why is it that we can talk about this issue is important for writers to ask questions not try to guide to answers i was intrigued by what you said and it did resonate with me because i often think turkey has collective uneasy our entire relationship with the past is full of ruptures and because of the vacuum now it's being filled with either alter nationalistic interpretations of history or religious interpretations of history where you can't talk about the complexity of history and if you want to draw attention to that you can easily be labeled as a traitor as a betrayer in just just a cognitive flexibility just to ask how would i feel had i been a minority member in that period for instance just to focus on individuals is very difficult because the official history has no human beings in it being a novelist in a country like turkey is

a bit like being slapped on the one cheek and being kissed on the other cheek at the same time. and i'm saying this because clearly these are lonsway i would cite heavy so every rights of it journalist anyone who deals with words knows that because of something you rights you might use that gets into trouble but on the other hand perhaps potok sickly in countries where would some not that easily return pronounced maybe the maybe they much even more i watched a film or decades ago as we speak and he just flashed across my mind it had to do with the colonization of the americas it depicted in it of indian village and in the village there was a no obviously gay individual who lived. in the hot and who related more with women when it was

accepted like that in the community and that it was an hour in that same on that same continent probably in that same part of the world you have those who are who are saying that if i this is a saying you know nothing about biology of human. not to me you know nothing about hormones nothing at all about the exploration of the human tendencies and there they are now stigmatizing this is whether i believe yeah especially in the so-called subtle societies the writer has a special responsibility at least as a tourist to rewrite the story conception just like that filmmaker obviously deliberately inserted this kind of domestic scene back contrast come to a country like nigeria and within this decade the legislators who are all the

problems are sailing by jury has the power but did not get cetera et cetera took time off the postle law. which included phrases like the expression of affection between 2 people of the same sex is going to and i asked myself when i wrote other time what your business or what happens with consenting adults you do not in a problems of your own already and so you have the politicians for their own purposes of the over rewriting and or. imposing their own newly acquired prejudices deliberate distortions of humanity in the name of progress they do they do rewrites so many things they rewrite history religion and also law and they they pass the laws when

i when i look at turkey in particular of course there are so many women who are very vocal and strong in all areas of life from academy up to medicine to the business world but in one does one field in which women have a few in numbers and that's politics mostly dominated by very conservative very religious. men one of the laws that they recently tried to pass actually involves reducing the sentence of rapists if they agree to may their underage victims because from their according to their mentality in a way the rapist is doing a favor to the family and all they care about is this other concept of honor and of course there was a huge backlash from from the society and then they took it back but there is no way i'm mentioning is this we need we need women to support each other we need

a very strong women small and that goes hand in hand with minorities without g.b.t. rights we need a strong civil society when society is divided when women are. and especially i think the only thing that benefits from that is patriarchy itself and i am concerned because earlier we talked about have country after country we've seen a decline of democracy an erosion of democracy and i think whenever there's more nationalists and there's more religious fundamentalism there's also an increase in sexism there's also an increase in homophobia all of these things are related we've touched the national in all the use your bar. i would writers do with fiction with history and so on you know what. politicians more afraid of history of fiction and the liberal to the reason why i ask this because i come from

a society where we discovered quote. i think not too long ago that history had been taken off. the curriculum yeah. it was a shock for me and so i asked myself well i haven't been able to destroy fiction but the hard history of the disposal to go read the history so i asked was a what really free book yeah and i think it's precise there were stories and there's a story telling can can make a difference as i was listening to i was thinking one of the books that i read very early on in life left a big impact on me it was the works of iran which. from the balkans when i was reading his work for the 1st time as a high school student it occurred to me they were like 2 peasants talking the talk about the genesis system which was the heart of the ottoman empire in

a way that the military and so at school what i had learned was who were a great empire wherever we went we brought civilisation but then there were these 2 balkan peasants talking about that institution and one of them was saying thanks to the system our poor children were able to get education and go all the way up and become a sears and the other one was saying are you sure because of the system they forgot their identity they were converted to islam without their will you know and they never saw their families again so yes they did get education but at the expense of what as a reader of lover of storytelling fiction i understood what the writer was trying to do you know can you shift your angle it's a bit stuck cognitive you know flexibility and try to see the same story through the eyes of another person and then another and keep doing this until we realise

there's no such thing as history with a capital hage imposed on us but there are all these realities and complexities that we honestly need to to. talk about if you want to be truthful when the nor the people shall we so with never have them us we're not to question you're both storytellers which you've spoken about but you're also activists in role models and change makers and i wanted to ask you both if there was a specific moment saw period in your lives when you came to embrace and accept your role as as change makers and if so what gave you the courage to step into those shoes you 1st if you feel. i don't see myself as a courageous person at all honestly i'm just a curious person and i don't want to lose that curiosity about life details the

connectivity with fellow human beings maybe i would maybe cause all the way back to my childhood because i realize when i look back there were so many times when i felt like the other myself you know a bit like inside or outside kind of clinging to their heads trying to be long so to me it comes very naturally to give more voice to people who have been other night sed and i think in my work i always want to give more voice to the silenced and try to bring the periphery to the center. that matters to me but also maybe part of the reason is the way i was brought up i grew up without seeing my father and i was raised by 2 completely different women my mom is very westernized very modern urban their action well educated and my grandmother probably would take all the other boxes you know more eastern very spiritual less educated i mean it's very

wise and she's a woman who had been denied a proper education but she firmly believed in the education of girls so to me so watching those sisterhoods their solidarity the way they supported each other had a huge impact on me you know they didn't agree on everything but they supported each other so i think observing people despite the circumstances how we need to empower each other how we need to connect with each other and how we can all learn from those bonds that left a huge huge impact on me as i was growing up. i told the hosts. the smorgon a little more i know her i know already story we'll have a good conversation i know her. and reading about her i just saw myself

also the ability the temperament of being affected by one's environment while we have the other for good or evil in a few days is i'm going back to niger and believe me right up to the time i get on the plane i ask myself what on earth are you going back to my blasted country for isn't it isn't life more peaceful here what form that is pushing you i just don't know but i'll give you an example of something which is affected me tremendously. and thank goodness this example comes from a child a girl child i name is leah shaariibuu she was one of the school pupils who were kidnapped by boko haram in nigeria. and there were an aunt but when they were leaving the fundamentalist terrorists insisted that they must renounce their religion before they were released

all of them did except one. shaariibuu and i asked myself what was it that imperiled the child to say no like nelson mandela did when he was given a conditional release she was between 14 and 15 said about age you know longing for freedom longing for environment from an error meant what was in the pushed or go to say no. and stayed behind and she was kept behind she's still a prisoner to today i think it's the same impulse that drives. ourselves writers and activists something intolerable on our except a ball in our environment i would just have to sue you know it's something which of i get to miss so much well written a long poem to her. when

you were put on trial french insulting turkishness sent in 2006 i wonder if you could you sort of say a little more about that and also i'm particularly interested in what you wrote when you were acquitted you felt that the trial was an uprising against authoritarianism so you had some hope for turkey at that point and i just wondered whether you had you know whether you still felt hopeful in the the circumstances that you explain to us earlier turkey is such a complex country doesn't. i don't think it can be simplified no country can of course but if it harbors so many conflicts this government has been in power for such a long time and when they came to power a bit like in hungary they came to power with lots of promises of reform including supporting turkey's e.u. membership peace process with minorities with kurds with armenians making

a new constitution that would be more liberal more political stake so the 1st years were shaped by that narrative and today only sug to say this but turkey has become the world's leading jailer of journalists surpassing even china's records now do we do i have hope about my country of course and i also know that the government and the people are not the same thing when we talk about swarms of democracies i think it's always very important to bear in mind the sobs the tragedy of land such as ours is that oftentimes the people are ahead of their governments and yet we don't hear their voices we don't hear the complexity of the civil society that's why i think it's very important to be very vocal and clear when it comes to criticizing offertory and governments and bringing up issues on human rights and freedom speech especially these are not negotiable issues postpone the issues we need to be very

loyal to defending human rights but at the same time connect with the people you know connect with minorities in our society the women in that society the youth in the society and never to isolate the people of high this is a question for mr gun. i read that in the 1960 s. you hailed a radio station at a gun point for electoral fraud i was wondering where do you draw the line in terms of political protest 1st of all. are you saying you don't believe in nigerian justice i was acquitted in court and here you are accusing me again after i've been acquitted by that i mean what about supposed to do next just to satisfy everybody i'm innocent. i think all of us

whether we like it or not we develop especially in circumstances like ours we develop a philosophy of violence it's always a very personal one it's in our conviction in our restlessness the desire to be a peace with yourself you cannot sit down and say you're writing a poem wearing next door somebody's being raped or violated in some way you put down but you can write about it afterwards but you know you're compelled to take action at that point or you cease to be a human being. one of the issues that i was hoping we could talk about is also where to draw the line between freedom of speech or hate speech i find it particularly difficult because

all my adult life i have fought for and believes in freedom of speech and one of the things that worries me on both sides of the atlantic particularly among young people this need for safe spaces and vetoing speakers was faith different to yours. is becoming a bigger and bigger issue and i am worried that if we're only surrounded by people who think like us like us dress up like us that's a very narcissistic existence so i think the point where i draw a line is the kind of hate speech that incites violence that targets minorities people who are in a vulnerable position that is something else but although i want to have multiple opinions discussions open spaces and especially to hear the voices of people whose voices have been denied so far.

people like to think that their nationalism is not as ugly as someone else's nationalism one of the major fear or when i was in exile was that the bar got me close or been deterred want to the marburg the opposite of kindness is not necessarily evil is the moment we become numb desensitized and indifferent. al-jazeera as investigative unit goes undercover in the caribbean we don't use the word bribe with a few token of appreciation exposing trade and diplomatic passports today struck down hard when the pressure got all of them not involving some of the region's highest officials writers to work. i'm not.

al-jazeera investigations diplomats for failed. hello again everyone from going here in doha with the top stories on al-jazeera burundi's presidential election is still 6 months away but there are concerns over security that opposition leaders say that there's a climate of fear and intimidation against those who are critical of the governing party the u.n. has also issued a warning protesters in colombia are rejecting the president's promise of a so-called national conversation of defied a curfew in the capital they're concerned about tax increases at a change to the country's pension system. a self-confessed chinese spy in australia says he's offered a troop of intelligence information wang li chang says that he's turned against

beijing he provided details of how it functions and conducts political interference operations in hong kong taiwan and stray leah nick mckenzie is an investigative journalist at the age and sydney morning herald who spoken with wang this intelligence operative was working in according to his account from company it was the company now it has links to the chinese military some of its links quite easily probably found using that cow there is a whole current business and he conducted various operations that were developed russians involved in the kidnap one of the causeway by book shop still as this is where 5 booksellers were disappeared may lead one claims he had personal involvement in the kidnapping of one of these. 2 nations taking now just simply one of the fairly stunning revelations he's night to us and

to. landslides in western kenya have killed at least 36 people they hit several remote villages in the county of west palm cos after heavy rain rescue efforts being hampered because bridges and roads have been washed away more than 30 people missing people on the pacific island of bogun vale of voting in a referendum to decide whether to become independent from papua new guinea crowds marched through the streets celebrating the start of the long awaited those if they choose independence spoken bill could become the world's newest country. and those are the headlines i'll be back in a little over $25.00 but it's just an era where the news hour but now back to studio b. unscripted. being a novelist in a country like turkey is a bit like being slapped on the once again being just on the other side at the same

time no write up this is just a story to have a storyteller as a historian is a psychologist is a philosopher when societies are polarize people the benefit from. the use your identity is one which. most admit it applies not just to writers of cause. in fact it's their heart. or the sort of diet. list which plagues europe for this or of identity has become seems to become a critical issue. generally in the world and yet there are human beings. who transcend not always in a positive way the nation for instance certain religions certain religionists feel that they are all more and that their identity should be seized. related to

through their religion ultimately a writer like myself especially who draws a so much from this society and of course who's a global wonder a sponsor periodical or who i know high seas by sell my subsidies or i know what that is but what really a my 2 to the other m i defined by a nation a want. what's your response i was i think i'm a bit more peripatetic. writer there are marshes but how do you see as i did it or use you in your united states is a question that matters a lot to me because i do not think that we have to have a monolithic identity despite what they say to us there's a lot of pressure on so many of us to belong into one single box and stay in that

box you know you're muslim just be a muslim i you this just be that and stay there forever but i think as human beings we have multiple belongings and it's worth fighting for that multiplicity when i look at myself i realize very clearly of course and they attach to stumble and i carry it with me wherever i go but i'm also very attached to the age in the balkans i carry in my soul so many elements from the middle east my european by birth by choice the values that i share over the years i became a londoner a british citizen and despite what our politicians say today i think i would like to think of myself as a world citizen and the global soul why can't i be multiple things people like to think that there nationalism is not as ugly as someone else's nationalism that there nationalism is actually the right type of nationals and that is

a civilized nationalism and i don't i don't believe in that i think the core of nationalism is quite ugly it is divisive it is based on a distinction between us versus them and their assumption that us is somehow better than them and it takes one financial crisis or takes one political crisis for that core to surface so when i say that i do make a distinction between loving your country loving your culture you know being attached emotionally it is a. beautiful feelings as an author every time you know i have written a book in turkey people said oh short of a couple i means that she must be sick that i mean that i wrote another book let's say another story they say oh she must be a secret jew initial must be a secret code because all these conspiracy theories in places where there is no democracy but underlying is the assumption that if it's not your story why should

you even care you know if it's not your identity why would you even try to write about someone else's story and i think we need to be very aware of that and very critical of that. in west africa some years ago. the nigerian government decided to expel all gummy arms from nigeria. in fact as an expression in niger today called done i must go. and i phone by solve. personally violated i felt that evolution a taken place on my behalf in my name yeah and i found it very repugnant in fact in my university my department became a kind of a refuge and i defied anyone to go and touch them or was it because i could not understand why there should be such

a distinction amounting to the right of expulsion between them and me. and we've had that experience all over the continent and as soon as there's a slight problem created by ms government mismanagement of economy the immediate impulse is to look for scapegoats of course the 1st line scapegoats are those who are quote unquote foreign as well and of course see what's very hopping in south africa the amounting even to the link chain the pursuit of the lynching of a foreigner as people who are mozambique or affected at one time zimbabwe nigerians of course see this leaves one in such a weak position when one now house to decry the ultra nationalism

and the waves are which are sort of taking over europe effect in politics immigration policy. i mean even the internal governance in which the the machinery of the government is arranged primarily against. foreigners what are my sort of guide in my i'm trying to let nations die that humanity may survive it. problem i have is i don't know what will take its place missions will become surely long in the tooth to me. explode bent to strew but never really know what but they all seriousness is a safe we have no memory as if we have forgotten and i'm not talking about history that took place long time ago and that effects everything there is a complacency as well. service a lot as if some parts of the world were more solid lance more safe and steady you

really didn't have to worry about the more chrissy in those countries most of the western world was seen in this way you really didn't have to worry about human rights or freedom of speech or women's rights or minority rights you would have to foot think about these issues in liquid plants outside the western world and i think after the year 2016 that perception has been shattered to pieces but still there is this assumption that some countries are inoculated against the far the rise of far right germany was thought to be one of those countries because people thought after experiencing the horrors of fascism people would never make the same mistake ever again and now for the 1st time since the 2nd world war we have a far right group within the german parliament and of course sweden was regarded as another inoculated country because the welfare states and the bustin of social democracy now we have the rise of the far right in sweden and the u.k.

was thought to be inoculated against the rise of the far right why because it's of it has very different traditions it doesn't even have a written constitution a very strong hold of you know liberal democracy and so many other historical reasons but again we can't say it why it will never happen again and we are seeing the rise of. hate speech hate attacks particularly targeting minorities immigrants suddenly this toxic language in politics made it ok for people to say things were that were unsaleable until recently. and yet i sense this contradiction in me you do so does for instance on the african continent. i feel closer. to africans in the diaspora and i

feel to the my grab region in north africa. i feel closer affinity definitely and i found myself far more interested in the fortunes cultural of course retentions in brazil for instance where you have the eureka young people in cuba etc i know i have a kind of visceral connection even in sports i must confess i'm a racist when it comes to sports i'm interested i'm interested internist only wants or very much or because williams a plane or golf i don't care for golf but any time i hear tiger woods name i want to know has got to go on. so that is that and i wonder whether we should be thinking more in terms of cultural blocks but 1st to the contradiction in me that this is a quantum contradiction i think it's feasible to feel that kind of attachment

emotional belongings and i don't associate that with you know nationalistic way of thinking or any more reductionist way way of thinking so the opposite i find find it important that we feel those emotional attachments that's why i insist on making a maybe distinction between patches and man nationalism i think the truth is way too important to leave to the nationalists i also think faith for instance is way too important to leave to the religious i think politics is way to important to leave to career politicians and i'm curious about your views on the language tour how does it feel to write in english and did you get any reaction because i did get a lot of reaction for i do write in both english and turkish but more and more i write in english and it's difficult to explain to people sometimes only think in nationalistic terms because for. so is an either or choice so if you writes in

english it means you have abandoned your essence your mother tongue and yes i think this is the in which so many of us dream in what more than one language and so when i look at my writing i realize if i'm writing about melancholy sadness longing i find of these it's expressed as things in turkish but humor irony in particular and much is in english. but there's no question at all for me language is both a vehicle it's it's a technicality for use at the same time it has this extension and to be a repository of ideas of history of philosophy so the pope for me i'd seen a reason why he wanted to come out have its cake and eat it. and that's why i talk about being multi-lingual for me this is the ideal if you walk the streets of nigeria for instance the start of english and up in europe switching to broken

english for me is an expression of. of the complexity of the thinking process but it's instinct if you don't find the expression. in one language you switch naturally to the language from which the idea derived originally of course i got this flack also why do you write in english lesson i tell them english is in fact the language oh cool make us you nigeria when i want to take over and take over you know control of our lives to speak in english so you can get anything more basic than the sudden transformation of yourself from even a partial democracy to outright dictatorship but anyway you know of but i think it's about time we brought in many of us go through there for years ago. i was wondering if you have ever felt the states particularly frustrating 8 about the

lack of impact given the rising. erosion of democracy and shrinking civic space so do you think that the language and narrative of human rights defenders including yourselves somewhat should try in change to reach out more effectively to the people that currently seems to be lured more by the body language of the far right nationalists and populists in this age we all need to become more engaged citizens to me that's incredibly important and there's one thing that worries me when i read the memoirs all right so some points who have survived the worst calamities in human history including the holocaust almost all of them are saying something similar they're saying bad things happen not because people are bob's well some people but relatively speaking their numbers are small and so they're

saying the opposite of goodness is not necessarily the bobbins the opposite of kindness is not necessarily evil. the opposite of goodness is in fact moments is the moment we become numb desensitized and indifferent that is a very dangerous turning point because upon that ground we can sow the seeds of all kinds of racism all kinds of sexism and xenophobia once enough people become numb so it matters to speak about human rights and each other's stories but you're so right some things to change in our style as well sometimes populist demagogues are better in terms of addressing people's emotions than their liberal counterparts it's so dualistic they talk about the people versus the elite but i think more and more of us deliberately need to start using the words the words in the break them into pieces so i deliberately use populist elite because populist don't have

a problem with elitism as long as they are the elites when they're not really criticizing it's the man many of them are the elite in fact when we take a closer look and the 2nd thing is they think of the people as a homogenously whole but they feel they divide people into real people versus on real people people who really matter 1st as people who don't matter that months much so all i'm trying to say is the problems are real but populism is the wrong answer to those real problems and we need to do a better job in terms of addressing those real problems and remind each other and ourselves that human rights must. thank you i did ask you both about your periods of exile when you've been unable to return to nigeria or to turkey for your own safety but yet you continued to write about these places what is it like being so intimately connected

to a place so absorbed emotionally intellectually in a place but physically separated and how has that influenced your writing i found it very difficult to accept that i was in exile very very difficult especially the major one the 2nd one which was forced on me and it was actually a life and death scape for escapade if you like i think carried. that but sense of belonging with me so deeply that one of the major fears i had when i was in exile was that they might get me an exile because i've been declared wanted to live by that the dictator are was actually setting up consulates to hunt down the opposition but. from peace this is a self revolution was that i began looking for a place where i would be buried if i was got outside

my fear was not so much being killed outside but. my family or some well meaning friends stick my body back why are the dictator was there now that's how you know i for not wanting to come be the way i was at peace with myself said good don't take my body back if that conduct that is still in charge i don't want him trampling all over my corpse. i still laugh at myself so look at you and sort of buy more weeks for disguising yourself you're paying the money to go out but that's exactly you know what i did that's part and parcel of. but once composition rather . does the sociable to cool changes in your countries in turkey for example still affect your writing style as much as it used to when you started writing it's so so

connected with the previous question isn't it exile sometimes self-imposed exile can we have multiple homes multiple homelands can make complete they ever this connect from our homeland which i think i don't think it's possible. just the opposite perhaps you even follow it more closely when you're abroad you you care about every single detail so it's a very very fragmented existence in a way you're always a bit of an insider outsider. which could be a good position for arts or the art of storytelling because you're enough of an insider to feel attached to places many places but maybe a little bit of codes of distance just a little bit of distance maybe to see things from a different perspective but it's a good situation position for art i think of a longly place for the artist you know you're always in between them and i and i carry that feeling with me to be honest the number of people from all over the

world who have started to feel as if they were in some kind of exile you know that number is increasing more and more people have started to get worried about their mother you know they can't recognize the changes that are happening even when they live in those countries so it happens to me a lot when i give talks there are people you know in the audience they say i come from minnesota and i come from brazil i can't recognize my country either nor can i you know we're all asking what happened to my sweet country i was wondering how you think that colony on mine has had an impact within our culture and ball possible changes you think that we could bring to ourselves us people from different countries who leave you know in europe or in countries that are not our countries. to better society in the future. the culture is

a powerful weapon i know but at the same time cultural come through very very few people. in face or some real. intractable situations in nigeria or use the expression or in those descent into. or in humanity. and i was speaking of. an astronomical arises in kidnapping for ransom in. in rape in pedophilia and ritual killing sex trafficking and we ask ourselves what what's happened to our humanity and what's the. solution solve these girls who are sold into prostitution. truly put under some kind of supposed to show us. chain

we did terrified that if the remarriage on the terms of the of enslavement that terrible things will happen to them and to their family. and they believe it because they come from a superstitious culture but the same culture is being used now to remove that fear from them you have somebody like the above been in for instance and sort of pronounced 1st the curse you know with his entire family of priests in chiefs rather curves on all. who traffic who continue traffic you know their own people into sex slavery but one should not depend to a belief on the part of cultural cultural enlightens relieves entertains stains but at the same

time the negative aspects of culture which just becomes an extra burden even outside on the berm and. just just to follow up on the i i think today it's the major clashes that we're experiencing are taking place in the field of culture we are so obsessed with data you know measurable constants of data but there are things that matter so much that can't be measured that easily and yet they're extremely important so as you know they were all these for the actions about a question of civilization small space between the western world and islam that's not what we are experiencing but i think what we're experiencing rather than a clash between civilizations within the nation states within our societies we're experiencing cultural. fractures you know cultural battles almost and so there's a lot of tension going in that in the field about identity belonging who are we how

do we raise our children but at the same time of course as writers we also believe in the transformative power of culture when societies are deeply polarized the only people who benefit from that are the populist demagogues so how do we find a way to go beyond our equation beyond our comfort zones and i think that studies are so possible. in such such a pleasure to talk to you. i thought i was sure i knew you. i hope this kind of communication can continue why does god need to thank you so much thank. you can really make a recreation for something as monumentally horrific as slavery i think under

natural and we connect on our collective anger a lot of the time what it poetry do for you is just wrong. from me out to c.n.n. london total cost center t.v. special guest in conversation i am here because of colonialism on prompting it's fun interrupted there's a sense of what it must but i'm still having some legitimacy in terms of spreading the knowledge and technology pretty ok pound me still is that palin it seems to me makes preparations for something more new mentally horrific past slavery studio to be unscripted on al-jazeera.

how we got the usual big storms rumbling away across the western side of the amazon the loss of popcorn clouds showing up here on the satellite picture because we have a cloudy stanstead across libya that's warde said the eastern side of brazil rio still seeing some lively showers south of that multipath the up to around $22.00 celsius that in want to say areas over towards the end there's some the stuff weather rolling through santiago high around $24.00 degrees in the cloud and the rain still very much in evidence as we go on into sunday some of the temperature there for want to satirise similar rain picture there of course at least inside all brazil halts in power croissants into the round house and live the showers that

continue across that western side of the amazon over towards ecuador pushing up through columbia into panama for the caribbean it's not see bad looking last you find in try actually they will of course be want to see showers showing up over the next couple of days but for many they've been a fat weather cloud with some showers easing over. sward see a women as we go on through sunday trinidad and tobago could see some showers maybe some showers pushing up into grenada possibly to into bob bade us meanwhile across the us with the king it clouds and rain pulling out of the way with dry but cooler behind. the weather sponsored by catalona. white supremacist violence is on the rise in america he was involved in this whole underground network 8 full time speaks to the victims of recent attacks when he shot me i turned around and he would kill my daughter and asks how an ideology of loathing has found its way into the mainstream can you draw

a through line between the rhetoric of president trump in the conservative media in america to what happened here in el paso license to hate on al-jazeera. this is al-jazeera. hello i'm adrian for the get this is the live from doha coming up in the next 60 minutes the u.s. government is forced to release documents on its stealings with ukraine revealing multiple contacts between the president's personal lawyer and the secretary of state. dozens are killed in western kenya after heavy rain triggers landslides. sri lanka's tamils worry about their future with the politicians who crushed a separatist group and.