around. the west kristie the bar with one. finds people struggling to cope with rise in sea and asked whether those who have the work of stopping appreciate the true cost of failing to act on al-jazeera. with protests raging in hong kong and a brutal crackdown against muslims in how far is the chinese government willing to go to maintain its iron rule. i made the house and also on the show this week the trumpet ministration announced that it no longer considers israeli settlements in the occupied west bank to be a violation of international law but is there any basis for making such a controversial claim that south debate but 1st enemies of the people that's what

hong kong's chief executive called protesters who have been demanding greater freedom from beijing so is the violence there about to escalate further and what's the future for china as we get this week's headline a leading pro-government chinese commentator and former interpreter to the late president done shopping victor gao. victor gal franc you for joining me on up front we're almost 6 months into protests that have rocked hong kong and police repression seems to be escalating by the day just last week a student was shot in the stomach by a police officer while the chinese backed chief executive of hong kong kerry declared the protest as enemies of the people are you ok with how china and how chinese backed authorities in hong kong have handled these protests. you know 1st of all over one can see with his or her own eyes their violence has been committed

it's on the massive scale arson attacks our police officers attacks our public order some of tires of transportation. all of this is happening as we speak and hong kong as a democracy protects the people's rights to protest and demonstrate but they need to do that in a legal manner illegal gathering is a crime in hong kong and attacks are innocent people is a crime to be punished by the law therefore i think we have great confidence in the hong kong government in the hong kong police they have a job to do they need to do whatever they can allow by the law to bring law and order back to hong kong law and order yes but also human rights multiple human rights groups including amnesty international and human rights watch have denounced the use of excessive force against the protesters even the un human rights chief michel has called for an independent investigation into the violence presumably you

support such an investigation to clear china is good. first of all the human rights are always important in hong kong as well as in any other society however no human rights will give any reason to anyone to commit crime or to commit violence therefore let's keep these 2 separate yes and the only argument is the right to use of course a leaf or using violence excessively to do support a u.n. investigation to work out what's going on on the ground. come on if violence of this kind which happened in the car happens in any other city in the world i think the police were do their job to to use whatever force necessary to restore law and order hugs and police compared with their color powers in many other cities in the world are very disciplined very civilized to me use that word and i don't think the use excessive force they are being believed as being too timid or too polite in

dealing with mountain lions you say violent. act what about the case of simon chang a hong kong citizen who worked at the british consulate was detained by the chinese authorities without charge for 15 days he says he was physically and mentally tortured he was hooded later he was released without charge and had to flee abroad fearing for his own life if that's what happens to employees of western governments in chinese custody what on earth happens to ordinary hong kong citizens when you round them up more than 5000 of them have been detained since the protests began have you really seen his confession he confessed to solicit teen prostitution in order when you confessed all sorts of crimes if you were hung while blindfolded who did handcuffed shackled had your knees joints beaten with spiked buttons when you admit to any crime with due respect to you i think that gentleman committed the crime in china punishable by law and that is a fact and you need to talk to him about whether he committed the crime rather than

accusing china without any fighting the reason television he says he went through this torture you're saying he's lying. he is lying because he confessed his confession was now in the public domain everyone in the world every every news agency in the world's can get direct access to his confession of knowledge and that he committed the crime in china need to be published but most confessions of trained under torture don't count is there a risk that the chinese military is going to directly intervene on the ground in hong kong because you have chinese president xi jinping saying just a few weeks ago that quote any want to tempting to split china in any part of the country will end in crushed bodies and shattered bones that's pretty stark rhetoric do you get why so many people are worried that there might be another tiananmen square massacre but this time in hong kong given such rhetoric about shuttered bones. whatever political purpose back to have you adopted one thing is sure

that is a lot of there need to be restored in hong kong and law and order need to be restored to hong kong through whatever legal means possible chinese austrian to the hong kong police cannot do their job if the hong kong police cannot do their job something else need to be done read the basic law and the basic law contains provisions about how hong kong as a our government if they cannot do their job being harmed car need to request assistance from the central government and the central government has a whole array of things they can do in the hong kong does that include crushing bodies and shattering bones to quote president xi jinping listen and all this is completely in compliance with the one country 2 systems now where you're talking about restoring law and order look at what the americas are doing and look at what the british are doing what we did in the war the frédéric largely on the floor and

all that need to be restored regularly do that on the show victor you know that you've been on the show before we cover lots of topics i'm asking about the shattering of bones in the crushing of bodies which is the president's quote do you support that measure. look at what the u.s. authorities did in los angeles he bring law and order to the riots in los angeles and you will no remember you are talking about restoring law and order rushing of bodies and shattering of bones. they reach his street history is very plentiful in terms of how law and order need to be restored no civilized society will tolerate to the level of violence as we see hong kong that's the bottom line you talk about civilized societies victor gao another major story out of china in recent days has been the leaked documents from inside the chinese government that were published by the new york times of the situation in jang with the we go muslim minority that you and i have discussed on this show and on head to head before we already knew that

anywhere between a 1000000 and 3000000 of those muslims have been locked up in quote unquote reeducation camps but now we know from these documents that number one responsibility for this goes all the way to the top to president xi jinping himself who is quoted as calling for absolutely no mercy and number 2 that even some chinese officials victor were unhappy with the severity of the crackdown on the week as engine john. listen in china the chinese people support the government's measures in fighting against terrorism extremism and separatism that's the bottom line no one in china wants to suffer the scourge of terrorism and we are very happy that over the past 3 years there's been no single major terrorist attack happening in china police here and all the people of china brain are innocent life that's the key as the chinese people are happy about that and terrorism is a scourge not only in china but many other countries in the world the world need to

be united in fighting against terrorism any other reason the world are united against what you call the scourge of terrorism but they're not all united about the way the chinese have decided to deal with millions of people literally and in fact as we learn from these documents many chinese officials had issues with this to huang young z. the chinese official in charge of one of the counties in changing where tens of thousands we get were detained he thought that the orders from the central government according to the new york times quote left no room for moderation and would poison ethnic relations in the country he ended up freeing over 7000 inmates and for that he was detained stripped of power and prosecuted so with due respect to you'll let me suggest that the chinese fight against terrorism in china that the about is why also machinery joining america this was a communist party official running a county and who freed we goes and was punished for doing so listen let china fight its terrorism in its own don't let the america's fight the terrorism in china or

with their turf last time i let it lie and countries not to use it is a job. in their own who we learned this week quietly ordered the release of more than 7000 we give because he thought it was an excessive policy he was detained stripped of power and prosecuted do you support that move against your fellow chinese citizen. with due respect and let's focus on the main thing that is fighting against terrorism in china we need to 5 a day as a terrorism in china you know very heroism is a cigar which i've asked you a specific question why was a chinese communist party official relieved of his job and punished for free and we go as if everyone is united against fighting terrorism so i will measure this why the time it is this is a re the chinese people have a job to do that is to fight against terrorism use i hope you will understand that i understand you say they're all terrorists and this is a security measure but the chinese government in these leaked documents makes clear that officials are well aware that those locked up and change on one guilty of any crimes this is the quote it is just that their thinking has been infected by

unhealthy thoughts so you're looking at people for not committing a crime for having thoughts you don't like that's pretty orwellian vic to go. now i think there are 23000000 people. and i can say with all responsibility the majority of those people want to have peace from terrorism and they are united behind the government's beggar's of fighting against terrorism because why number of them want to suffer the evil forces of terrorism that's the bottom line again i will repeat this 1000 times let's focus on the daunting overriding task i'll cite here again as terrorism that's the main point fine that you say it's the main point for people who are being tortured it might not be the main point how long can the chinese government carry on pretending that hundreds and hundreds of we get around the world who are either detained and tortured themselves and of a scaped or have family members back home moved disappeared or been tortured how

long can it continue to pretend that all of these we goes around the world who are raising the alarm bell who are sounding the alarm bell that they're all lying to human rights groups they're all lying to journalists they're all making it up how long can you pretend that. let's fight against terrorism and terrorism committed by whatever person need to be punished i see china we do not have to screwing up at all as use an already existing goodell's out victor go you support electric shocks you support people big sterilise you support people being electrocuted having their heads shaved is the testimony from we get to have a skate province. listen i support all the legal measures adopted by the chinese government and the chinese law in order to fight that as terrorism that's the bottom line does the chinese government's legal measure than include pulling out fingernails electric shocks the shaving of heads a chair of nails sterilization is that what you support the chinese legal measures in doing so sorry you are asking misleading question no i'm not asking about that

or the money. that there's no truck victor i'm literally reading out the quotes from. by a we go muslim teacher who escaped from china from zoom right to dilute who testified in washington d.c. this week from cairo. who says that he was forced to stand in a fixed position for 12 hours these are fellow chinese citizens of yours giving their testimony of what happened to them are you not concerned. sir sir there are more then 50 countries governments who signed a statement in support of china's fight against terrorism why don't you read their statements why don't you talk to them why don't you talk to the chinese government officials in china doing a very very important job of fighting against terrorism why do you want to pick was sided against the majority of legionella and why literally talk to people like me who do not want to suffer the consequences of terrorism in china well let's be victor hold our very talky. talky do it but we've invited you on the show because

we appreciate. his army well i don't question me because you obviously did such is to me you think it's misleading to time literally reading out the quote from chinese citizens and you know we've asked chinese government officials to come on the show they've refused to come on so whether people are we're talking about how many people have inter have you talked to about 1400000000 chinese people have you talked to me to a village or a clear outlook you know here you are in 1400000000 people to you i'm quoting to you people who say they've been tortured if that doesn't bother you that's your choice last question and according to the new york times believe that that's the choice of more than 50 countries in the world 1st the board chad as well as mine that is a lot journos want and you are right values are visible in china that doesn't make it right doesn't mean i'm not going to ask you any questions a final question of victor appreciate you taking time out according to the new york times the leaked documents also show that the government has plans to extend restrictions on islam to other parts of china mosques of already being demolished

or shut down in multiple provinces there's been a crackdown on the use of arabic script in public places one china scholar recently said that the people's republic of china has become the world's foremost purveyor of anti islamic ideology and hate what do you say to them that's completely false i travel extensively throughout china i have many friends who are muslims. islam is a great religion and we all need to respect islam go to go to many parts in cian john go on and see with their own eyes how many mosques are elegantly standing there in front of the people in front of them believe yours and nonbelievers if anyone believe that chalo will damage of do draw is to the mosques they are cheating themselves they are cheating the whole world and the truth will be more eloquent than these lies victor gao thank you for joining me on up front.

this week the trumpet ministration announced that the u.s. would no longer consider israeli settlements in the occupied west bank a violation of international law reversing 4 decades of u.s. government policy while the israeli government praised the decision most countries and the united nations continue to view settlements as illegal but when it comes to israel in the occupied territories including garza does international law even matter anymore or is it just whatever the united states says it is joining me to debate this from ramallah omar shakur the director of human rights watch in israel and palestine and here in the studio professor eugene control of it and international law professor at the george mason university skillion law school and the israeli think tank the policy forum thank you both for joining me in the arena omar let me start with you does this latest u.s. decision to disregard international law and recognize israeli settlements in new york by toadies make those settlements any less illegal will it change the way the

rest of the world sees those settlements. the u.s. declaration changes nothing the trumpet ministration cannot erase decades of stablish international law that settlements are a violation of article 49 of the 4th geneva convention and in fact a war crime and i think this is the range of statements that you referenced from the european union from many countries across the world from the un indicate that there is consensus outside of the this israeli government and outside of the trumpet ministration that settlements are illegal it is as uncontroversial say settlements are illegal as it is to say that torture is illegal it is black and white international law eugene didn't respond to it's black and white it's uncontroversial it's completely wrong it hasn't even been the policy of the united states since the reagan administration and it's not the policy of the international community and it's not the policy of human rights watch and you see that there are many insiders in the car of those now turkey is moving millions of people into northern syria morocco moves people into western sahara and in none of these cases

has human rights watch or the international community said this violates article 496 of the geneva convention that's not international law this is a special standen that's been invented to prevent jews from living in today and scenario that's absolutely incorrect human rights watch covers 100 countries across the world you can look up our reports on western sahara for example you can look up our reports on crimea the same law fuck you patient that has been in the international system for nearly you know for over 70 years is the exact same system that we use here it's article 49 the g. if the geneva convention the reality here is israel doesn't want to play by the same set of rules those settlements are built on land stolen from palestinians that are from there and settlements are at the core of the 2 tiered discriminatory regime that treats palestinians separately and and equally and the reality is here the war crime is not the settlers self is not a war criminal the war crime is the act of transfer of

a population to territory. my word eugene let me just pick up on the substantive issue you mentioned and omar mentioned you know the application to other areas of the world crimea was mentioned russia has been sanctioned for its invasion and extension of crimea just last month the un assistant secretary general went to the general assembly and said that on the issue of the occupation he said it is against the geneva conventions for russia to transfer its population into an occupied area you say only israel is being held to that standard not true russia invaded crimea and sees this in a military conflict where it was the aggressor is well i must admit i did not take this from another country that owned this was not traditionally and i understand the argument with respect to slightly moving the goalposts you said that no one applies the standard of the 4th geneva convention of moving populations i'm saying they are applying in crimea do you recognize has been mentioned by a couple un reports in we went assistant secretary to human rights in the last month in relation to crimea they have not been sanctioned for the sanction for the

invasion it's not been applied to the west and cyprus western city has been able to do more i mean or than they have mentioned in regard to kind of the un has talked about the contours of crimea it's not israel islams many cases there is one other case that does not make it is already a big one and just on the subject of this idea of stolen palestinian land john respond to that point the idea of this is that we haven't used the old word yet that the whole point about settlements flows from the idea that this is an occupation what's your response to that. you can only occupy the territory of another country that's what russia did and they did what everyone regarded was ukrainian territory in 1067 when israel retake the west bank it was not drew dainian territory jordan was not the sovereign it was not there was no palestinian state it's not occupation as for the idea that all of this land belongs to private palestinians it's ridiculous that's because international organizations refuse to recognize the validity of sales to private jews jews by land own land from the 1920 s. with omar agree the jews could live in a land that has been in private jewish property since the 1020s or does it say

there is no such thing as private property in the west bank overdrawn respond to that. absolutely look eugene is trying to muck up what is black and white eugene is right there is some land that were own privately by jewish families before 967 but the reality here is eugene is trying to make complicated but it's not every country in the world recognizes the west bank any shoes by the way even this u.s. government to this point. but every other country the world considers it to be occupied territory this is not some matter that needs to you know an international law professor to tell you how to read lines in the follows any of the convention in wyoming i mean there is the republic all you say it's black and white but there is a grey area in the case of in the west because eugene makes the point and a lot of people defending israel's behavior in that part of the world do make this argument that the there was no sovereign power there when the israelis took it over $967.00 it wasn't it's not as clear cut as crimea being part of ukraine and former ukrainian borders is that fair enough the exact same the exact same united nations

mechanism that set up the creation of israel set out the creation of a separate political entity that would be a palestinian state that was supposed to be in 45 percent of the land and of course we know what happened as a result of the conflict but the reality is the same international legal apparatus that led to the creation of the state of israel is the same bodies that have not only set up the creation of a separate entity but also have continuously reaffirmed including at the security council in 2016 in 2234 the legality of settlements as a matter of consensus international law ok let me bring you jim to respond to the. international law any system of law we work works by figuring out what the rule is by looking at how it's applied otherwise if i'm a lawyer and ace i'm going to cite 9 other cases to see what the laws are made of for you then we've talked about the other examples you said there are examples of don't and that's how you figure out why we're into that example to do just on the occupation that you don't believe there's an occupation for sure for 2 reasons but

under the terms of the state department's own memo the state department can concluded that while the territory wasn't jordan's it was gone. enough to trigger the war walk a patient wanted to but if there's a peace treaty with jordan then there'd be no occupation that's why do we need the state department to mike pompei or donald trump's legal expertise when we have the israeli supreme court saying in 2005 the due date and some are areas held by the state of israel in belligerent occupation the military command in the area is not the sovereign in the territory held in belligerent occupation the israeli supreme court says it's ability an occupation so it's a common misstatement to say that the israeli supreme court has adopted this position i didn't say and i said just that israeli supreme court said it's a belligerent occupation that's correct that is not exactly accurate but it's and i quote all because what the israeli what the israeli government has done and it's a little complicated legally is they have what voluntarily a group said we're going to apply part of the law of belligerent occupation to the territories as a matter of discretion just like the bush administration applied parts of the day we're going to convention to guantanamo saying it doesn't apply so when the israeli

supreme court says they're applying the framework of occupation they mean as an administrative matter because when and when ariel sharon who was exactly a friend of the palestinian when he said you may not like the word but what's happening is occupation holding 3500000 palestinians under occupation is a bad thing for israel what should we trust him or might prompt what's great is that israel is a democracy and totally relevant to what i know is not in the people express many different police the prime minister of israel but always does in his favor is followed roshan's across many different is unlike with the palestinians where there's only one view and i would say you can trust views that come out of this so that no not i just it very well you know molly come again and if you do with the aerial sharon but the problem is different perhaps it was not are you out of it but he was the prime minister of the dozen which which you just said if you trust israeli prime ministers brought prime minister netanyahu says there is no occupation and i'm not sure if you're holding back is really a product is not really sure we're getting because we're going to cut the political goal out of based on the wrong we're getting lost a little bit here in the word occupation look at eugene is trying to tell you and

what he saw you it's not an occupation let's say you jeans right let's look. say we throw out everything you know the consensus opinion the world that means that israel rules over millions of palestinians that have no ability to vote of no political rights that cannot move freely well israeli jews who live in the exact same territory or so this is the state with full free movement with full political right ok all civil rights with full access to water should eugene wants its cake its if you want to call israel democracy but then say that it is no occupation so israel's a sovereign state also and cleans a house you made the point let eugene come back to you having your cake and eat it is not occupation but you don't give people any rights no more wants his cake and eat it too because in the go on in eastern jerusalem where the residents can well vote where everyone can go and as i would have offices and ship there he doesn't feel that and i bet it will israel said ok you everyone here can become a citizen were formally upon israel along for there the international community and human rights watch there that's even worse if you give them the right to vote you

jane will have to leave it there thank you both for joining me in the arena as that's our show up front will be back next week. the impression of an ethnic minority and me and my many. they intend to make sure that room injures we're no longer entitled to be the basic rights for citizenship rights in a new documentary al-jazeera explores the history and motives behind the systematic persecution of the ranger and me and my. exile on al-jazeera. the differences. and the similarities of cultures across the world.

al-jazeera. 0. kerry this is the news hour live from doha coming up in the next 60 minutes more questions for the white house over ukraine the state department is forced to release documents that show trump's lawyer was in close contact with the secretary of state. heavy rains triggered landslides in western kenya killing dozens of people and washing away roads. putting pressure on the french government activists demands tougher laws to stop violence against women. and.