0 from this human rights campaign is a maybe the investigation greater since the 2011 revolution. unspeakable crime on al-jazeera. hi i'm steve clements and i have a question are tried in the united states headed for a new cold war or is it going to be a hot war let's get to the bottom line. the downward spiral began years ago but in the last few days it has really sunk to new lows following a pattern of knee jerk tit for tat ism washington just shut down china's consulate in texas last week and in response beijing shut down america's consulate in chengdu thousands of chinese watched as the u.s.

flag was lowered from that former diplomatic post as part of america's full court press secretary of state mike pompei of gave a speech asking the world to embark with it on a new cold war with china which the 2 countries already have a trade war they've got new travel restrictions on each other and they've been banning each other's journalists among other escalation so what do we go from here from a strategic perspective what are the right smart moves that america should be making joining me now is the president of the council on foreign relations richard haass who has served many u.s. presidents in the past and is a prolific writer on global issues and u.s. foreign policy he's just finished a new book designed to help bolster the literacy of americans about the world beyond their shores appropriately titled the world good to be with you richard richard you recently wrote a critique of secretary might pump a.o.'s speech at the nixon library and in it you said he misunderstood history he misunderstood what nixon and kissinger were trying to do with china at that time tell us more. good to be with you steve the secretary

of state suggested that the engagement policy with china had because it did bring about a china that was more open and liberal politically or economically and when i argued is that was never the intention that was never the goal though the policy aim to change chinese foreign policy to work with china against the common enemy of the soviet union and in fact it succeeded we won the cold war on terms that even an optimist would have would have had difficulty coming up but isn't it partially true that in later steps like bringing china into the world trade organization bringing it into various international institutions the thought would was that those institutions would liberalize it but if there was some who had when i thought it was overly optimistic view of what to expect once we brought china into those institutions i also think that we made certain mistakes that after china was brought into the w t

o i don't think we adjusted the terms of their membership as china's economy began to grow as china became more integrated and in the world we kept treating them as a developing country when we ought to have been we ought to have been more demanding but again i still thought that the basic thrust of the policy which is more traditional was to influence chinese foreign policy and the whole idea was to embed them in arrangements in the region so that among other things they wouldn't be tempted to use military force to change the status of taiwan or to change in the situation in the south china sea and my argument is now for decades that policy largely worked. well right now it seems that donald trump is very fixated on china now we are a few months a months just before an election in the united states and i remember when barack obama and mitt romney were running against each other they talked every other day about china being a currency manipulator and that caught in the complications and problems china was

creating in the world is this a lot of election posturing or do you think there's something deeper and more real in president trump's posturing on china and the short answer to your question is yes it's both i do think to some extent it's a lecture and posturing there has been an attempt to in some ways blame china. for recent problems including the and and china ought to be criticized harshly very speedy havior early on though i think once depend them icky reached our shores the responsibility is our own through what we've done or more or for what we what we haven't done the taking a step back i think would be wrong to dismiss the many of the problems in u.s. chinese relations simply as a byproduct of the american political calendar and then after november they're going away i don't think so i think the problems are real and they're going to be challenging either for president or for president help indeed this might seem

counterintuitive to some people watching this might be slightly more difficult for president biden in the sense that he's unlikely to be as preoccupied as president with these narrow trade deals about expanding american exports to china so i don't think the united states and there are president biden and i'm to speak from obviously but if it were to happen i don't think china simply agreeing to high or low in agricultural or manufacture training would make a difference. well i want to get to hong kong as you just mentioned for a moment but you said something that really stands out to me you don't see even if there's a change in leadership in the united states any easy snapback going back to a different kind of u.s. china relationship no i think this is now and it's some way it's imbedded structurally in the bilateral relationship but also if you read the sorts of things that people advise him by spreads and by have been writing and saying magazines like ours and in foreign affairs it's not as though this represents

a soft on china perspective to the to the contrary a lot of the people who seem to have vice presidents and vice president biden's ear have been consistently tough on china over human rights concerns the readers the more repression in the country as i tell people in china you you shouldn't just attribute this to the president trump or to or to the american election this is out there it's real there's a degree of bipartisanship here where i think though there could be a big difference is though in a president biden's if it comes to that his willingness to forge a common relationship with the american allies in europe and in asia and actually i think that has a bit of an upside promise to put more pressure on china and you mentioned hong kong a minute ago let me play you a clip of something president trump said on hong kong. but that's between hong kong and that's between china because i'm going this is

a part of the deal with that themselves they don't need advice now let's listen to secretary pompei oh on hong kong indeed we have a nato ally of ours that hasn't stood up the way that it needs to with respect to hong kong because they fear beijing will restrict access to china's markets. this is the kind of timidity. that will lead to historic failure and we can't repeat it we cannot repeat the mistakes of these past years so we have 2 leading members of this administration one the president the other secretary of state saying diametrically opposed views on hong kong so i want to get back to your point about what are we to make of these mixed signals when it comes to china when it comes to allies you know are they with us are they against us those kinds of issues or. well separated to 2 areas one is the very mixed signals about u.s. indifference to what china did either in hock on her against the weavers john bolton's book as you know basically has the president giving the chinese

a free ride to do pretty much what they want to their own citizens even gross violations of human rights it's one of the reasons that some of this criticism now by the secretary of state seems like too little too late and the fact that it's just aimed at china i don't see equivalent criticism of russia or church or other countries which shall we say a criticism on these grounds again makes it look quite opportunistic rather than principle and again in the secretary of state speech this the way you discuss germany this kind of. back of the hand to show them that's not my experience the way to bring about alliance cooperation be it against china or anybody else and this is ministration and what was its 1st big foreign policy decision when i came into office was not to join the transpacific partnership that would have put us together with countries representing at least another 2025 percent of global g.d.p. we then together could have gone to china and say hey you want to access to our

markets here's the economic standard you're going to have to meet in terms of trade in terms of respecting intellectual property what have you so it's very hard for the ministration now to be saying we're robust on china when in all sorts of ways it chipped away opportunities over the years to do and be just. you know one of the other points that you raise in your critique is that america seems to be putting up barriers complaining but not necessarily moving in to fixing problems as you've just said not necessarily finding allies to fight common purpose with you know whether it's climate change or wa way you worked with everyone in foreign policy and do they not see this. look i mean when i met with then candidate trump during the campaign and we talked about the world and about american foreign policy and one of the things i came away with is he really has a

a negative view towards ours rather than seeing them as our owners rather than seeing them as a force multipliers rather than seeing them as a structural advantage so the united states he tends to see them as free riders who tends to see them as economic competitors and what i really think this is ministration needs is to a different view i don't mind the put a fundamental change in their take on what partners and allies are and that we have to be willing to do things with them rather than to them and we just can't insist they work with us against china or anybody else rather we've got to consult with them come up with a comment that maybe an uncertain face as we put aside some of our economic differences because we have this greater priority i'm going up with a common front on china that's what strategy is all about was part of our usual act in a disciplined way and i should please don't see us doing that or you know you're not only someone focused on guns and militaries and you know the classic you also spent

particularly your new book which i'd love to get into you talk about you know economics and the global financial order and to certain degree most of the people that i know that have focused on u.s. china relations just like we used to talk about japan say their economic interdependencies that are really profound between these 2 countries and that you just can't on table them without staggering costs and so what is your take on the economic dimensions and you see things like the reserve currency status of the dollar threatened in a collision like i think someone in this town in washington with china today. here is a couple of big issues i think the idea that the united states and china could quote unquote. totally divorce i think is is simply not china's to present to many places the u.s. chinese economic relationship is too elaborate and too extensive the real question is could and should we ensure in selected areas distance ourselves particularly

areas say of high technology and i think the area and the answer there is maybe but again not to use a famous strategic saying you can't beat something with nothing so if you want to encourage others not to opt into a chinese led 5 g. system you need to have and then have an american or american european or american european japanese south korean alternative or right now at least there isn't one but of what seems to be the goal is not a total horse on the other hand it's not a total marriage which china what i think is we need something a little bit more in the in the gray area and i think that's possible you raise a 2nd issue though which is the role of the dollar and that depends on lots of things but it depends on american competence and perceptions of it depends of the fact in america want to approach the channeling of the dollar just not now really what will think about its implications for the rest of the world and i think combination of our incompetent response to that at times or weaponize ing the

dollar through various sanctions running off this enormous debt i think all this and more has raised questions about the dollar so i don't think this is the sort of thing that ends in a day but i do think gradually you'll get to see probably on an accelerated timeframe the emergence of various not so much alternatives but. they would co-exist with the $1.01 question is whether china makes its currency much more convertible is the question of the euro question of the yen question crypto currency is but i think the era where the dollar was pretty much the only game in town i think where we're just we're probably at the beginning of the end of that era and with that united states could lose a lot of influence and could find its own. itself more economic revolt horrible on the implications or consequences of its own economic policy and some. i mean as

a planner who has helped guide us foreign policy through so many hinge points after the you know the fall of the berlin wall after you know many other times this must be a time that's frustrating for you when you see a kind of diminishment of american power in the world. well i do and i worry about it i don't think it's warranted and i don't see a substitute coming about you know be one thing if the united states was dialing down and there was something better we and others were putting in its place but i don't see that i think the alternative to a world that is led by the united states working with will be a world that's much less organized i think it would be to the detriment of the united states and everybody else and what's so frustrating to me steve is i expect that might be to you because i don't think there's cost savings in this whole mindset that american leadership costs us more than it benefits us is just simply wrong it's not borne out by the facts or or by history and as we learned on $911.00

as we're learning now with over 19 we can't insulate ourselves from the world so even if we we show this and we should be doing more here at home i get it we're going to have to deal with the 10s of millions of unemployed in our health problems and our race problems but the world's not going to say ok you americans go sort out your domestic problems and come back when you're ready we'll just you know we'll park and we'll wait you history doesn't work that there's no cause we've got to pay attention to the world at the same time we pay attention to our domestic problems or the world will deteriorate and that will actually make it even tougher for us to deal with our domestic challenges so i worry about the dynamics some of this began under the previous administration which recluse or signs of it in the middle east but we're seeing it really accelerate now with the world i constantly uses abdication we've really pulled back in a in a dramatic way and i worry because when i look at the sweep of history and i look at the last 7075 years the post world war 2 era i think this is been an

extraordinary wrong not just for the united states before the world no great power conflict incredible increases in wealth and standards of living billions of people brought out of the average lifespan of around the world is in. produced by in some cases it's democracy is forced in many places around the world so for me to bring to do anything in the hastens the end of this order which the united states had so much to do with bringing about and sustaining i really think short sided with the understand the book you've just written the world is is very interesting and i'm one of the many thousands of people who read all of your books i really appreciate your willingness to share with us your insights about global affairs and the tectonics of the system that we're in but i guess when i watched donald trump beat hillary clinton when i would go to oklahoma and kansas

texas talk to my relatives they have this sense it was a joke in new york and d.c. but they have this sense that america had fought the cold war and china had won that the benefits to them of being internationally gauge were more problems in cost than they were benefits and you began to see people particularly military families who had generations of military service begin to kind of reject global affairs you've now written this book called the world. to try to bolster the literacy of those folks and to tell them but tell us about the book and why why you did it. well the reason i did it is i thought that too many americans didn't understand why the world matters didn't understand the costs and benefits of american bombing in the world you can graduate from virtually any of our great universities and not learn any of the subjects they're offered but they're not required for students to take before they graduate and we really don't cover these issues in any depth on our on our news programs nightly news program and on television the internet does

have this information the problem is us tons of other information and in the internet doesn't come with a little stick little note saying read this but not but not that i'm worried me is that most americans didn't understand and many cases the importance of the world and the costs and benefits of american involvement in the world that would be too willing to simply walk away from it we're seeing signs of seeing signs of that and not what i think is the benefits have and continue to largely worth the cost in terms of american involvement which is not to say we haven't made mistakes and i think we overreached in places like iraq and afghanistan and that fed this narrative that the world is simply an expensive dangerous place that's not worth that but the real danger now is not american overreach it's american underage and what i want to do is write a book that basically makes 2 points the world matters isolationism it is folly and

2nd of all that there's nothing we can do better in the world by ourselves than we can do with others there is a case for for multilateralism obviously it has to be smart we've got to be creative but my argument is that to make americans more aware about the world in parchin when they go vote say this november they look at what the candidates are saying because whoever they do they president or whoever they make a senator or congressman these people are going to have tremendous influence over what the united states doesn't know which in turn will affect the world which will then tremendous impact on the lives of americans so my goal was essentially to write a book that may be made these connections. well i think we're all grateful for that you know when you look at libya today and you see russia now operating in libya which was and would have been an unthinkable a few years ago i'm interested in what you think is going to unfold and in that region or other regions the well are we just going towards chaos. or do you see

something else out there like i wish i could give you enough the mystic answer but the middle east has been is and quite likely will be the most turbulent part of the world right now things could get worse given the situation with iran given the challenges in egypt and in saudi and saudi arabia i don't see any the prerequisites in the middle east of stability or progress by virtually every measure you haven't decided is what's what what's what's if you will the goldilocks solution what's neither too much nor too little and i think that's a debate that we're quietly having in this country we're having a little bit about afghanistan about syria about american forces in iraq and what could you know what could drive this in many ways is also what is around and what is the united states to describe or just basically come to conclude is tolerable or is not so yeah there might be a lot of americans who want to be done with the middle east but the middle east is

not done with the united states so i think we're going to be involved here deeply for years to come but a lot of the details yet to be have yet to be. determined by the united states. richard i would be remiss if i didn't ask you one more question again related to a different book you once wrote in that book you basically argued that u.s. foreign policy was directly linked to the domestic economic and social conditions of a country it's hard to imagine a bigger mess than in the united states today with 44000000 people unemployed you know racial divides in the nation and a pandemic hitting as sort of 3 tsunamis at the same time and so i just want to ask you to reflect on the domestic sources of foreign policy which you've got that have got to fix this stuff that you said it years ago. that was not heeded and so i just

kind of remember that book and say wow if only everyone had read richard haass but tell me your thoughts right now on this moment where our domestic you know set of conditions are pretty horrible. thank you for raising it the book is foreign policy begins at home and you're right the immediate situation depend on the 10s of millions of unemployed the racial divide whoever wins this election is going to inherit all of that and that will clearly demand a lot of our attention but i think you're also getting at something deeper even beyond those 3 things we have all sorts of other domestic challenges we've got the challenge of a public education system that is not educating most americans and you're only well we have an infrastructure that is truly. truly inadequate we don't spend enough federal money on basic research our immigration system makes no sense we're not attracting and keeping the most talented people in the world who want to who want to surrender now the biggest threat to our competitiveness in many ways is

ourselves and if we're going to from you know we began this conversation talking about china and the answer to a successful relationship and china i would argue is not keeping china down that's beyond our capability the chinese will determine their own trajectory what we need to do though is determine our own trajectory and we need to make the united states more competitive and deal with all these domestic challenges we've got this national security at the end of the day is has both the foreign policy dimension and domestic image it's a coin with 2 sides and we won't be able to have the resources to succeed in the world to present a 2nd successful model to the world unless we get it right here at home and unless we get it right here at home americans will have an appetite to be heavily involved in the world so again whoever wins this election and you can choose anything when you run for president one thing you can choose is your inbox and you got to whoever

wins is going to inherit a daunting inbox everything from china to climate change to north korea to iran to venezuela and war around the world and in america. as you correctly say challenge widens immediate issues like the like unemployment like racism as well as issues like our health care problems and our educational problems our infrastructure problems this is going to be one of the most critical errors in our history really for our entire history well richard haass president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book that you should all read called the world thank you so much for joining us these are defining times for america and the world as larry summers and others have said this feels like a big hinge point in history and we're very grateful for your time and insights thank you so much who to be with you steve so what's the bottom line don't believe the hype the tension between the world's 2 biggest economies is not about ideology it's all about power rising powers will always challenge dominant powers and

unfortunately america is just shooting itself in the foot and making it easier for china by quitting many of the global institutions that it created and doing little to stay friendly with its friends so it's no wonder that china looks stronger in the eyes of many when we look to the future america is still number one in a lot of areas but it's isolating itself and it's just diminishing in fading on the world stage faster than most americans know and that is the bottom line. hello there the usual shonen tunnel stillness scattered across much of the south in the southeast of the united states central plains also bigness mischa stones out across the west it does remain clear and draw any fat or excessive heat warnings in

place all the way from the pacific northwest right the way down across into our zone and all surprising look at the high temperature in phoenix on friday 47 degrees celsius 28 across into seattle and this is where the rain will really develop as we go through the day across the southern plains pushing into the southeast and eventually through saturday that system working its way very slowly through the ohio valley at the same time as a frontal system sliding through the northern plains the upper midwest and again we'll see some rain showers mixed in here you'll notice a lot of rain on its way towards the south of florida and that is because over this this is our latest tropical storm it's the 9th one of this season it is a very quick to develop as well this one and of course as it was coming towards the u.s. virgin islands it really was bringing the weather with it although not too bad this is a full cost right through friday so it's going to be pushing across his manohla and then it should stay to the north of cuba and just to the south the bahamas but of course we've got some very heavy rain with this system by friday the winds at about 90 kilometers an hour through saturday it will be getting a bit stronger winds at 110 but really this is about the rain.

for. a career reporting to the well doing it here one journalist documents life beyond the headlines. but certain stories can change in the case. please use it when you know his history. germany was a unique journey into what it means to be human the things we keep a witness documentary on al-jazeera. you. may know what i do you dare go. so. i believe typically

you finish. very good before. i know i feel. we have been playing to do it. we have a separate called a right yes they're going to do but we ought to do a good by. she gave me a few friends that i did not think somebody knew 'd but this you know there's been some vision and i also lived a good week tradition of making good on most of. their neighbor who lived and let me do national pain i was so. easy to be a part of was to be. offended if the 1st coming. here i don't just go there you wonder to me it was good so i thought for more children from want. to do it and become sober. also there not

being there was so note from them of the music i'm glad to be that you know. that the do not go into that but now i can make you. feel that i'd be good to buy to meet them and to say that they have to read books that we don't. know. and people. like him to do that because he does that send to begin and we heard many this issue all population but the spirit of these we don't want to go right before the worst place to put your clothes you know the city spent money but. for the book it isn't how i heard it to be told what. every good every hero i have seen you don't hold i don't use your t.v.

because the thing on the ceiling that day this is just the right in the city of. my state to be sure that i have good business in the city. over the world. hello there i'm a star and that is all the headlines donald trump has ignited another political firestorm by suggesting that november's presidential election be delayed on the same day new figures show the u.s. economy had a record shattering decline due to the coronavirus pandemic nearly 152000 people have died from the virus in the wild west affected nation and many states want to make crystal voting easier here's a health concerns the trump insists without evidence that melon voting is vulnerable to fraud i just feel. i don't want to delay i

want to have the election but i also don't want to have to wait 3 months and then find out that the ballots are missing and the election doesn't mean anything this is going to happen see if it's common sense so we're asking for a lot of trouble. and do i want to see a day but i don't want to see a crooked election this election will be the most rigged election in history if that happens. well the u.s. state of florida is reporting yet another record number of new coven 1000 deaths for now the 3rd straight day 253 more deaths have been confirmed thursday with nearly 10000 new cases it's one of the worst hit states in the u.s. but officials have avoided reinstating widespread lockdown and france has reported nearly 1400 new coronavirus cases now for the 2nd day in a row there's also been a rise in the number of patients admitted to intensive care for the 1st time in 4 months health officials say the virus is spreading faster than ever since france

eased it down and may and spain has seen its highest daily jump in new cases since lifting its lockdown and more than 1000 infections were confirmed in a single day for now the 2nd day in a row 1200 new cases were quoted on thursday mostly from the catalonian regions in the northeast at least 18 people have been killed and dozens injured in a car bombing in eastern afghanistan the attack happened in logar province in the capital where people were shopping for the muslim holiday. the taliban has denied involvement the group is expected to join the afghan government peace talks in the coming weeks. and taiwan's 1st democratically elected president who pushed for independence from mainland china has died aged $97.00 way over sort taiwan's transition from dictatorship to democracy during his 12 year rule which began in 1980 s.

his push for taiwan to be treated as a sovereign state angered china leading to intimidating military maneuver. 12 opposition politicians in hong kong have been disqualified from running in september's legislative council election leading pro-democracy activist is one of those disqualified he says it shows a total disregard for the people of hong kong electoral authorities and ask the candidates about their views on beijing's national security law and u.s. sanctions the move has been denounced by the opposition as a political witch hunt well those are the headlines i'll have more news here for you on al-jazeera after rewind stay with us. what are you seeing. it's an informed opinion is ethiopia on the verge of a breakdown many calls or region are under a de facto state of emergency a critical debate after the french people is not the person enters the bill if you

feel in-depth analysis of the day's political headlines.