accused of stealing chainsaws being used to cut down trees in the forest. he says the government always sides with corporations who he accuses of encroaching on bare land and he's skeptical that the government has any real intention to protect indigenous communities. and when it comes to relations with investors indigenous people are always the ones left defeated he says they like many indigenous communities all over indonesia will never stop fighting to protect their land just to washington al-jazeera to counter. analysts take it through some of the headlines here and al-jazeera now armenian and as a reef forces are exchanging fire for a 2nd day in the occupied nagorno-karabakh region as a by john has authorized a partial military mobilization pressure is calling on all sides to show restraint

turkey is asking armenia to withdraw from the land it says it's invading robin for us to walk or is following developments from georgia's capital tbilisi this is very much an active theater of war and with both ministries of defense as you've been saying really giving it a constant updates stream of video footage and material very much trying to control the information side to the war but certainly confirmation that yes they've been harry heavy artillery used again both by both sides during the night from sunday into monday and continuing today yesterday azerbaijan congratulated itself on having recovered territory all villages today armenia saying that it has taken back some of that territory. the new york times is reporting the us president is paid no tax in 10 of the last 15 years the paper says he avoided taxes by the

clearing large business losses and now personally owes crosses more than 3 $100000000.00 trump has dismissed the report as false poland says it could impose its own sanctions if the e.u. doesn't take more decisive action on bellows it follows more protests on sunday when the russian police fired stun grenades and tear gas to disperse up to 100000 protesters in the capital minsk the opposition accused president alexander lukashenko of rigging last month's elections the number of corona virus infections in india has passed 6000000 with more than 82000 confirmed cases recorded in the past 24 hours it's the 2nd worst affected country in the world it's inside story now.

where protests against the government is sweeping in egypt thousands have rallied in towns and cities demanding that the president resign it's tough security crackdown has been launched and yet people are not giving up the can the protesters achieve lasting political change this is inside story. hello i'm rob matheson welcome to the program president abdel fattah el-sisi has to go that's the call being made and rare protests against the leadership in egypt friday was dubbed a day of rage in which one protester was killed and several were arrested these are

has been the epicenter since demonstrations began in september the 25th security press in el who'd been deployed there in force. and yet released with guns faced off with dozens of demonstrators before charging at the crowd 10 people were arrested another 4 were detained in the southern city of luxor on and in cairo's how one neighborhood people chanted say it out loud don't be scared el sisi has got to go all the protests reignited on the anniversary of last year's mass rallies there's anger over president cc's decision to demolish thousands of homes the government says were built illegally some of the poorest communities are affected 70 percent of egyptians are estimated to be living on the poverty line and coronavirus lockdowns have made their situation worse the protests are the biggest held since 2019 when video messages from egyptian businessman muhammad ali inspired similar rallies he says sisi and his allies spend public money building themselves

luxury homes. c.c. banned unauthorized protests when he took power in a military coup in 2013 but the biggest wave of arrests has been in 2019 and s.t. international says at least 4000 people were detained when mohammed ali has released more video messages in support of the protestors is urging people to stay on the streets until the president resigns so how does travel most egyptians unite out of love for the egyptian people take back your country again don't leave it in a cc's hands down with the sisi regime down with the sisi regime don't go home do not go hide we go home they will detain us don't go home we're in the streets and now we need to stay there. well let's bring in our guests in berlin ahmed saeed is a former political prisoner and the coordinator for the egyptian commission for

rights and freedoms in germany in new york so his ease as a professor of law at what has university and director of the center for security race and writes and in boston to make the call this is a non resident fellow at the tucker institute for middle east policy welcome all of you to the program i want to start with my. how significant is it do you think that given this security crackdowns that we have seen over the last couple of years when it's come to protests that these protesters do seem to be prepared to take the risk of being arrested at the very least in order to make their voices heard. this for thank you for the for the invitation. i think that's what are we watching right now in egypt is very significant sign to which indicating that the state of fear that the egyptian regime is

a has sure has already been. has already established since 2013. is not working very well for the sake of the egyptian regime is not bringing the stability that the egyptian regime promised his partners his western partners which so aborted to him in the last 7 years with the political argument that they have been using all the time that this regime is the only option that would bring stability for egypt and it's saying that these protests i mean saying that there could not be any kind of his stability under this risk of regina and from my point of view. i think that the egyptians gyptian people kept trying to. break through this this

wall of fear during the last 7 years that they didn't have stopped doing this. it has been always this kind of the small protests like let's give an example like just a couple of days before the 20th of september there were already a protests in the wake up and this approach this was already have been happening for for quite a long time right now and. it's it's all like a quick wish in between. the anger and frustration which the egyptian people are living and experiencing for years right now and to and compare the comparison with a few years that they are. living also when their

frustration and anger becoming just more exceeding the limitations of sheer happening what we are watching right now and i think it will it turn it will do continue. as long as we have this dictatorship or tell you and your team in egypt so high it has ease we were talking earlier about the fact that this was principally or sparked by the fact that presidency has this this policy of demolishing thousands of illegally built homes as they call them is that the only issue here when talking about wider range of issues that people are angry about you have to ask yourself why are egyptian protesters so egyptians as a people if we had to generalize are not known for protesting for the aca they i think they proved to the world into the country that they value stability political stability they don't like chaos and to the extent that they were willing to sacrifice the revolution for it when they when millions of them supported sisi

overthrowing a democratically elected government under the worst the regime so egyptians when they protest it usually represents very deep seated authentic grievances and what we're seeing with these latest rounds of protests is that the grievances are growing and i think this is cc's the essential problem is that he is proving to be a poor governor and create because what he's doing and he's perpetuating to egypt there's always been to egypt there's been easier for the haves and he has for the have nots now in the past 7 or 8 years the have nots have. on tremendously with the poverty rate going from 25 percent to 33 percent since the revolution so more and more egyptians are struggling to eat literally and now when you add $2000000.00 constructions that are being either there or being threatened to be demolished if already poor people can't pay with a car reconciliation on

a per square footage then you are just adding to these grievances so the so the protests signify dissatisfaction with governance but they will also likely tie into a repressive a feeling of repression that not only are we being impoverished but we also don't even have the political space to try to complain about it or try to fix it or try to engage with our regime and the response of the c.c. regime is what a typical military government will do you crack down militaries are not trained in the art of governance they are trained in the art of security which is a 0 sum game a black and white paradigm and so he's i think the military is just killing its own grave in the long run in terms of its legitimacy and though real concern is what lies ahead for egypt because even if he washes these protests the underlying grievances are still there and they're ready to move they called us the government and outside observers people who study egypt closely and the media as well

ourselves included seem to have been caught somewhat unawareness by these protests even though we have had small scale sporadic protests up to this point as the egyptian government and the military become complacent. i think that they've they they haven't been caught flat footed i mean they were anticipating the likelihood of protests and their arrests in the lead up to these protests and increased security presence in anticipation of the possibility of protests as this comes on the anniversary of the protest sparked by muhammad ali's revelations september of last year. so i think that they are aware of this issue there's definitely a sense that there are there is growing tension and there's also sensitivity around the role of security companies owned by the security agencies particularly the military we've seen them go out of their way to deny the military is involved in certain business ventures recognizing that increasingly the public is dissatisfied

with them accumulating wealth while poverty levels as as as was noted are growing. so i think that. they are aware of the issue the question is are they prepared to make the changes necessary to address the issue and that's where we see a lot less happening this continued provocation with the increased cost of transportation this new effort to crack down on informal housing and also the way that they've chosen to crack down informal housing reflects a fundamental problem which is that they want power without responsibility. and a police state where you can't hold a sign into a square for 2030 minutes without getting arrested for a protest sign it's completely untenable that that millions of structures were wrecked it without some sort of official complicity. these and these are in the informal housing in egypt a lot of it isn't what some might imagine as some sort of you know structure that

some sort of shanty or some like that we're talking about 1011 story building. and so the construction of these of these structures required officials to be complicit and undoubtedly bribery was involved and so going after this illions without addressing the government's role in all of this also reflects a fundamental problem and a fundamental degree of corruption and the better it which this is being handled which further provokes the population want to go into the role of the government and the military in a moment but i'm a timothy i was just talking there about the influence of muhammad ali and how we should refer to fight muhammad ali is a former military contractor he's now living in exile he's been very critical of corruption as he sees it in the government and he has been driving at least in part the protests that have been happening and happening in egypt now my understanding was always that change was always expected to come from within egypt but these are protests are being driven by somebody outside the country how significant is that

actually it's. like that the change coming from within egypt i think we all. are or let's talk about myself i believe also that the change will come within within egypt and from egypt itself but that the reality saying that there is no space at all for any kind of political moment or political activities inside egypt no space at all even. media which has been used before by the egyptian activists. becoming over became already very dangerous they are following the activists in social media on the internet in general so there is no space even for discussion of or building a ground or building a movement or trying to have. connections with that. with the bible

on the street and actually this is also a code why many of the egyptian activists are very skeptical about these calls coming from outside egypt some of them having an it a problem with it that how can you being seen outside egypt and just injuring be able lives and. told them to go to talk to the street which is very dangerous in egypt right now regarding that strategy and how the egyptian regime is reacting to any kind of opposition or even just. exhibition of a different one interview or discourse there other than what the egyptian regime is adopting so this kind of approach and also to see how the protests is an

organized there's no wonder presenting the movement in egypt right now or the protest right now there's no. so many of the people see no future. or like i'm talking about the near future of this protest right now it will be just like what happened last year and what happened before some kind like some days of protesting thousands of people who will be arrested or forcibly gets a beard and so on but there were there were no be real impact on the political reality in egypt but also from another perspective receiving it as just. something we can build on something which indicates that feeling of the egyptians of egyptians indicator of how their assisi

lost completely his. 13 egypt. that what what what what he build already during 2013 and in the core and so their game has no basis at all. right now in egypt and we can see this all the time that egyptian i'm just want to add also. something about why the egyptians are moving right now despite all of this. security dominance. in egypt. they gyptian jeem is has launched really a dirty war on the egyptian opposition. all kind of opposition and now. in this time he is that in general the c.c. becoming more visible to that to the normal people who are not politicized

when it comes to their economy life and going to mix situation and specie of the with the growing a crisis and after which we are still living and then come then this thing with. illegal constructions and this combine that began to demolish all the what called illegal constructions in egypt i think that's a very a very strong trigger to that to the be because they are now in there they are feast facing every individual are risking their. daily lives so. yeah i want to i want to but forgive me for interrupting because i want to bring in terms of point because timothy i saw you nodding through that particular point where you said that for ahmed was saying that this was not necessarily going to lead to a rigid regime change but this was something to build on and that the president sees he has if i interpret what i was saying correctly has extensive essentially

exposed himself too much and now the people are seeing him exposed to do you think that that's a fair comment i think that it's really difficult to dispute at this point that cease popularity has deteriorated substantially from its its peak in 2013 and 14 and that's largely a consequence of the deteriorating economic situation for most egyptians as a disappointing out and then to the unfortunate reality is that as poverty expands and people's standard of living declines that people are losing faith in and in their leadership which is a you know a common reaction in any part of the world and the fact that there is no mechanism for correcting the course in terms of real actions or even the ability to petition the government to alter its policies. leaves people to either be silent or reach a breaking point. and take to the streets and risk arrest or worse and so that i mean this is that this is

a fairly predictable outcome but i also i also agree with the suspicion that at this time there isn't necessarily. enough momentum to push this into a mass that they but it's still really early to tell i mean last year the protests happened on the 20th and then there was massive repression. and there was a lot of anticipation for the following friday but really nothing happened. this year we've had smaller protests but we've had them now for several days and people seeing people protest might feel encouraged to join and i'm sure that's part of what the regime is worried about and they're trying to balance not provoking a larger reaction with not allowing this to spin out of control and that's not an easy ballot strike especially as your popularity is deteriorating frankly don't have the financial resources to address the grievances of the public. somehow as a way of reasons because i want to bring in exaggerated that forgive me for interrupting saeed as he's going to bring you in here because again you were nodding through all of that but do you think that there was

a point given what timothy was saying that if the protests are directed towards president sisi himself that the military but by whom he is back significantly might feel that he has become a lame duck in the sense that that he is too much of a talk at and they might actually abandon the president and allow him to fall as long as they actual regime itself can stay in place well this is the 1000000 dollar question in egypt because i think most of us agree that the current regime is not sustainable and it's really just. not whether it's going to change ideally would change through democratic elections but that's clearly not going to be the case and there was some concerns or some analysis that there could be an internal coup against sisi it specially when. samiam name was. nominating himself for running for the presidency the last time around and instead he ended up in jail and there has been some other concerns that there may be an internal coup now

unfortunately even if there is a coup that's not going to solve egypt's problems because you're just going to replace one military general with another and the approach the very hard for oppressive anti democratic approach is going to stay the same the same corruption and the differences egypt always had a corruption problem it's ranking as one of 5 out of 180 and transparency international but in the issue is whether corruptions getting worse as the economic conditions get worse as well and also who are the beneficiaries of the corruption and now that has shifted significantly to the military which is going to make it even harder to switch a military run effectively a military run government to a civilian run government because now you have people who are benefiting from the status quo the other issue that is still uncertain especially as we face the elections in the united states is the role of international relations one of the reasons i think he has been able to go to use the extreme in terms of his

repression of the of the political space is because he's had almost no opposition or pressure externally so many arabia and the emirates support him and they continue to provide find for any israel supports him and trump supports so if biden for example were to get elected and if the senate were to become dominated by the democrats and the congress is already or the u.s. house of representatives there may be more pressure internationally led by the u.s. with the west with europe working with them now that is i realize somewhat idealistic but egypt historically has always responded to international pressure particularly from the u.s. not to the extent that it is transitioning into a democracy and i don't take the position that the u.s. wants egypt to be a full democracy but i do think that there are influential advocates and stakeholders and interest groups in the u.s. that are 6. well in pressuring the u.s. government to at least mitigate and restrain some of the political pressure that's been going on in egypt and other middle eastern countries so again the future in

the u.s. and the future of the military sustainability as a as a government is up in the air and worst case scenario is a mass revolt that leads to my bullish shooting that leads to a massive revolution that could become a domino effect in other countries who also have not successfully over there on their repressive regimes under the so-called arab spring timothy i want to end with you given the fact that on was saying about the lack of organization that there has been with these particular protests do you think that the only way that these protests will ultimately achieve a significant goal in egypt would be if there was some sort of organization behind it and if there was what do you think that would have to be. i think that it's really difficult to 'd to 1st see any what the pathway is to truly revolutionary change i mean as a high note it the most likely scenario is that there will be internal machinations

and in a regime and the regime will choose a new leader if at some point in the in the future they determine that sisi is has out well out i would say his use. that i don't think is coming anytime soon for the record for the reasons outlined he has been very successful at consolidating his power and rewarding those who support him handsomely and i don't see him having any serious internal challenges and externally it's there's really no there's no forseeable. or going to organization and that's by design of course they have been very effective at crushing any effort to develop any sort of organization in opposition to the government they arrest people for deigning to consider running for parliament under their very rigid system such as they had a lot. and so we have this situation where it's come very difficult

and they have successfully forced the opposition either into exile into prison into silence or some of there are a number of them been killed i mean and so the question is where will it come from and in the interim it seems most likely that will come in the sporadic outbursts of protests and whether or not they get enough momentum to really threaten the stability of the ruling order remains to be seen well i don't believe it i don't have indication that we're going to have at the time of the countess thank you very much indeed i want to say thank you to all our guests on my side and then somehow disease in your content to think called us in boston thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website at al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot. forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is inside a.j. the inside story for you rob matheson and the whole team here but for now.

the ever changing john of the lebanese nation. has been a ratings painted white and sun up. throughout history talk to al-jazeera is joined by contemporary lebanese artists and intellectuals to discuss how that one reflects lebanon today. hi i'm steve climate and i have a question to ask these days it's hard to filter out the noise and keep track of what's really important the bottom line tackles the big issues this is shaping the

united states its people its economy and the way it deals with the rest of the world the bottom line only on al-jazeera. it's 100 hours g.m.t. on al-jazeera i'm come all santa maria and these are the headlines armenian and azerbaijani forces are exchanging fire for a 2nd day in the disputed region of the going to cut about armenia says more than 30 of its troops have been killed as a by johns or authorized a partial military mobilization or russia is calling on all sides to show restraint here's the walker he's following developments from tbilisi in georgia a stream of video footage and material very much trying to control the information side to the war but certainly confirmation that yes they've been harry.