one of cyrus hundreds of prisoners who've been on the frontlines of yemen the civil war continuing to return to the capital sanaa planes carrying who can fight says who've been helped by the saudi u.a.e. led coalition have begun to arrive in the city the swap is being seen as a trust building measure aimed at reviving peace talks. it is good to have you with us hello adrian figure here doha the headlines on al-jazeera american voters were asked to tune into doing televised events with president donald trump and democratic candidate joe biden both vying for their attention to it originally planned to face off in a debate but it was canceled because of trump's corona virus infection at one point the host in miami criticized the president so boosting conspiracy theories just this week he reached leave it to your 87000000 followers

a conspiracy theory that joe biden work history to seal team 6 the navy seal team 6 killed to cover up the face the face death of bin ladin now why would you send a lie about nothing at all or even each week that was a read tweet that was an opinion of somebody like and that was a retreat i'll put it out there people can decide for themselves how to take a position like someone's crazy uncle he was really you know whatever that was a reason to leave and i do a lot of reach which and frankly because the media is still say and still corrupt if i didn't have social media i don't call it twitter i close associate media i wouldn't be able to get the word out and the worst photo in the kurdistan politician freed from prison by protesters just days ago has been appointed interim president sort of jumped off was made prime minister when the state is now see of the presidency the resignation of sort of jeenbekov. the world health organization says the number of coronavirus deaths in europe could be up to 5 times

higher by january if containment measures stepped up france germany and the u.k. are among countries tightening restrictions the governor of afghanistan's helmand province is accusing the taliban of working with al qaida and other foreign fighters. he says that the armed groups are supporting the taliban attacks against government forces he says that he can prove it but has yet to reveal his evidence hundreds of prisoners sippin on the front lines of yemen civil war continuing to return to the capital sanaa planes carrying the fighters who've been held by the saudi u.a.e. led coalition arriving in the city this will be seen as a trust building measure aimed at reviving peace talks other headlines more news fear of zerah after the stream next i want you to. defeat china virus as we call it there is no place for hate in america.

feeling great. is not. scientific in the final presidential debate live. it they're welcome to stream at home edition i'm josh rushing sitting in for me ok today if you're watching this on you tube i could really use your help see that box over there that's a live youtube chat and we actually have a stream producer a little producer who is in that box looking to get your questions and your comments to me so i can get them to our guests during the show so help me out one chip today we're talking about something that i knew little about before it was pitched it's called swatting it's a kind of praying where someone calls in and says that there is like a hostage situation at a house that they're not at so that the police will respond with swat to that house

it started with gamers on sites like twitch and in fact check out this video you can watch one actually happen here. that you can't go. in but play i did. understand why we didn't just. one or a 3rd go in many ways a bomb. on something teeter adaptions a ramp player and let's please you can walk or walk or. in that particular video that young man his father handcuffed outside the house while the police went through the house of what started as fun and games actually turned deadly when a man in california called the police in kansas to say there was a hostage situation and when the police showed up they shot a 28 year old man dead on his front porch who had nothing to do with it wasn't even the right address for the game or that they were trying to prank and in fact that

person who made that call was sentenced to 20 years in jail last year in california now to talk about this today we're joined by an exciting panel of guests who i'm actually going to ask to introduce themselves to you themselves so we'll begin with . good morning thanks for having me my name is malina abdul a professor of pan african studies at cal state l.a. also co-founder of black lives matter well santa listen one of the original members of matter and i am a single mom of 3 kids who was recently swatted about a month ago and happy to talk more about that and what that meant for me and for my children. thank you for being with us today molina we're going to get into your story in just a minute what a story it is doing by alito from dallas. hi i'm the lead to

bucknor ines i am a professor of law and senior associate dean at s.m.u. deadman school of law in dallas much of my research is in critical race theory and most recently i have taken up the topic of swatting and also something that's been described as white collar crime that is to say where black people become the victims of false police calls who were joined by divied in seattle hey josh navy jim ali i me at are a large newsweek but i'm also a fellow for the anti-defamation league looking at swatting as well as the co-chair of seattle police department's efforts to combat swatting and sadly enough i too am also a victim. well swatting. so let's begin with the lena we have a video of the show when the police showed up to your house. again with any danger no i mean we got a call to this location there's a millionaire holding guys hostage if you will be dollars are going to go here

within an hour. oh my god now somebody that there's nobody in the house except my own security because of that we just want to make sure that you're ok i'm fine my kids are petrified. but that's why we're here they must never mind. lima can you walk us through what happened on the shore so that's just the remainder of the video that was. basically what happened 9 o'clock in the morning on a weekday morning i'm getting ready to go to a press conference actually about some work that was happening at school and i travel with security anyway because of the work that i do with black life matter and ongoing threats and my security personnel arrived at the hall at my home we

were getting ready to eat and he notes that when he rolled up that the police had my house surrounded and i said oh well it's not for me i didn't think it was for us because you know there's incidents that happen i live off a crenshaw in los angeles it's a very active community sometimes things happen in my neighborhood. and i looked out the window and police come to the window there's police everywhere they come to the window and point assault rifles swards me through the window and then i realized it was for us and so i immediately tried to get my children in the safest place possible towards the back of the house i go live which is this is a cliff i think for my instagram allow. but there's an announcement over the loudspeaker that the police have my house surrounded there's a helicopter overhead this is just a small number of the police that were around there were about 30 or 40 officers

armed very heavily when ounce that everyone in the house needed to come out with our hands up of course i since i was live streaming i announced that i had my phone in my hand i kept thinking about qur'an gain since defunct who've been murdered for having their phones in their hands while black and gratefully thankfully my neighbors are who protected me my neighbors refuse to allow me to walk towards the police without them and literally put their bodies on the lines for me on the line for me but it was a horrific. incident and it was something that we were grateful to have survived and still deeply traumatized as my children. get through with what we feel it would why did you imagine they were there. i didn't know why they

were they are you know i know that i'm a constant target i'm a pretty well known. police. abolitionist i work on reimagining public safety i organized with black labs matter which is why i think that a piece around swatting also the political swatting of organizers is a lot different than you know swatting is a prank right that a caller who called on me had sounded like a white southerner male and was very clear about him targeting he was targeting black lives matter and i believe that the police are complicit when they think that something you know when they get calls like that it's not that they're going in blind they knew precisely who i was and they risk why this call was coming in and to move in that way i believe they were complicit in what could've you know

brought my death and the death of my children. should the police of people down i think that there's it's easy enough to you know get in touch with me they get they've gotten in touch with me and many other instances it would have been easy enough for them to make a phone call it would have been easy enough they clearly didn't believe the call because if you look at the calmness once i was terrorized and asked to come out with my hands up once i had assault rifles pointed at me they did nothing more to ensure my safety or the safety of my children so they were complicit in this call in my view they could have if they were really concerned about my safety there were other ways to check on my safety and they didn't do that if it is a simply or to your experience. well you actually had

a chance to talk to chief more about molina's case when we did a panel i peep at look the point that i want to hit on here is both of you mentioned have described swatting as a hoax it is not a hoax it is in fact a crime as you heard from the lead it actually beyond the legal realm it also has it's an act of terror right it goal here is to terrorize it's not just the physical act it's to it's you know spread fear and as molina say it's not just a tool that's being targeted at gamers we're seeing it use that disenfranchised you know we're seeing black activists being targeted by this but we're also seeing the c.e.o.'s of c.e.o. of instagram right so this is a tool that can be used by anyone really to go and reach out and try to get this kinetic thing so it's not just a hoax and that someone's calling it a threat the goal here is to play an inherent bias as leaders pointing out to try to elicit an incredibly strong armed police response with a goal of inflicting violence so that's incredibly dangerous but here's the other

part of this josh there's no consequence so people can do this and you know what seattle and what we're working on is really to help police departments adana fi and tailor their response but when it comes to investigation let alone prosecutions it just doesn't happen and there's a lot of reasons for that so right now if you want to swat someone unfortunately the chances of you being arrested let alone prosecuted and convicted are damn near 0 so that's a chilling thing when you realize the damage and consequences it can have on individuals and groups. later we were joined by a lawyer a legal expert on this little league of white how could this be legal. wow you know i absolutely agree with what i've just been said 1st of all this is not a hoax people who engage in swatting are very purposeful this is an act of terror one of the significant problems is that you know perhaps one of the most

significant safety mechanisms that have been created in the u.s. over the last few decades is the widespread access of the 911 system that is one of the tools that we use in order to keep ourselves safe and that's true whether or not we fear violent crime or whether we have for example a medical emergency it is shocking and regrettable that the 911 system is being deployed in this way but let me also just add it's not just calls to 911 that are being used very often swatting also occurs via calls to non-emergency police numbers the reason that this can be so insidious and so difficult to control is that. frankly you know outside of the sort of pure hoax calls where someone is calling up on a game or or where someone has a you know a beef with someone very often callers can make the claim the very much

subjective ice claim that they were fear fearful or that they somehow thought this was going on it was very hard to challenge someone subjective or subjective like to claim about something they thought was going on it's very difficult number one number 2 even though i would say in the vast majority of us you're stiction it is a violation it's a criminal violation to make a false report many of those mechanisms for criminalizing that act they are low level they are misdemeanors they are not felonies you should look at the case in california where someone was just convicted and got 20 years in jail that's because someone ended up dead number one number 2 it was also possible to harness the power of statutes you know i think that was prosecuted as an involuntary manslaughter case. those people who do criminal law recognize that.

it's really difficult to make out many manslaughter cases i mean you need a certain amount of intentionality and that was present that case and you still end up not with murder but with i believe a manslaughter charge so that case is actually exemplary of what of how even in the worst case scenarios it becomes difficult to prosecute or if it is possible to prosecute it's difficult to get a filmy prosecution and if you can get a family prosecution it's often difficult to get the highest level of penalty there are understand some jurisdictions that are trying to put in place some explicit statutory responses to this but that's been slow going so far and i would guess and my. yes can jump in here i would guess that's because we don't want to have a chilling effect on people's ability to call 911 how do you balance that with the very real fact that people are using this as a weapon against others you know. if it's passed i think though we also

need to think about that the police are not neutral and all of these cases so this is used when we talk about the targeting of black activists and organizers you know this is used i think as. an excuse for them to come in and terrorize it's not that the you know the police can't if you even watch just that short clip of the video in my case you know the police can't claim he claimed he didn't know who i was now no police officer and all of l.a.p.d. doesn't know who i am and doesn't know who black lives matter is we are the largest and most active chapter in black lives matter and this is happening at the time when black lives matter is now the largest movement in global history come on now you don't come in and come to my house and not know what it was and so it's really

important that we you know one absolutely say that it's more than a hoax so the caller absolutely has some responsibility but police departments who are using it as an excuse to further terrorize harass and really place in jeopardy but lives of activists you know also bear some responsibility and i think that we need to remember that law enforcement units are not neutral they have their own agendas that they're trying to advance the reviewer's i would as it. i was going to say so to that point look clearly i listened to many many swatting calls and you know again people who are calling in a swat team they want to get a police response so they're going to play inherent bias and clearly race is part of that but you know you can't ignore the fact that like i said the c.e.o. of instagram has been swatted in my case it was actually the former head of v.h.s. . that was actually swatted and that's what actually brought

a federal beef but here's the larger point you know you go to police department and you ask them they don't know what the hell swatting means they don't even but mostly the officers don't know that's the thing so that's one problem and then you know to my co-host point about the legal part of this you know the molina she was terrorized this was awful it's clearly had an impact on her in a lot of ways but you know you go to police a pop star you say how do you record this they're even of a crime to record this at because there's no physical damage there's no loss of life so in many cases they'll just recorded as a false not one call which at best is not even it's not a felony it's a misdemeanor so there's no investigative purposes i'm sure the f.b.i. has not been in contact with molina and i'm sure you know i can tell you from from experience that these people who are swatting someone like her are doing this prolifically they're not just targeting her they're target all sorts of people but the biggest challenge here is getting the feds to investigate it because what we found from swatters is not only are they out of state as as as again which point out they're calling the non-emergency line which you can't call 911 in austin

unless you're in austin for example they're not only out of state in some cases they're out of the country so we need federal involvement to investigate and prosecute but on the law enforcement side really is absolutely right like police should know that this is a thing they should know that there are people who are actively trying to plan their inherent biases right so they know if they say it's a black man with a gun it's more likely going to get a stronger response and they're playing on that there's no doubt about it but again i just want to make clear that this is not just just like i would say it's not a tool to use in the game or community it's not just a tool used against activists although that is a that is a part of it it's also used. it's like trump administration officials and you know c.e.o.'s of large companies and that's why unfortunately that's why it's finally getting some attention heck i mean i didn't point spoken to the departing defense about this and we've talked about nation states using this as a tool to disrupt a military base which you can actually do so this has a broader concern if you had an emerging threat and again that's the absolutely

frightening thing here is no matter which way you look at whether it's someone we have to molina or someone who went after the former head of v.h.s. in many cases there's euro consequences and so you know what's to discourage people to do this they know they can do it without with impunity and they only have to be right once and you know that's it you've ruined someone's life it is not even the last lecture to a course or is that risking that horrible is the trauma for evermore a pretty one here call it terror that's the whole point of terrorism right yes and so it just happened to a black college student stephen f. austin down in texas and it could put this video range christian christian evidence the police stormed into her room at 3 am in the morning and here's the the trauma from this happening. i feel safe here. i don't even know how to. sleep at night because of this. it has made me really paranoid that i'm always taking my room in vegas and everything is over. or i go to sleep. i

was looking forward to making friends and having a good time and that's your team but since this is happened it's made it really really really hurt. so i'm just like as i'm taking it what. milena can you touch on the emotional trauma that last long after the actual event sure i mean. what shook me most is that my 3 children were home. and after asking the sergeant if i was free to go i walked back to my home and watched as my 13 year old daughter just shook in terror she as i walked out the house when i was you know they called for everyone to walk out

the house with their hands up you know i was trying to draw the police away from the house so my children what they have to face guns pointed at them actually and you know thankfully the police trained their guns on me and not on my children because they were kind of barricaded in a back room and i was able to draw them away from the house. but thinking about what it meant for my children to watch as these assault rifles and this is dozens of officers surrounding their mother with assault rifles you know this is. something that's going to live with them and with me for the rest of our lives and you know definitely you know there is therapy that's in place as a result there are there's a lot of anxiety you know in black folks always already have to live with anxiety

when we see police but the way in which we were threatened causes additional anxiety i watch how my children behave when the police are around and it's almost unavoidable these days it's not like i can keep them safe from police but it's it's definitely taking an emotional toll on us would be to use in our communities and this is video comic quickly that request. in the most recent example of swatting or campus police raided the dorm room of a black cheerleader at stephen f. austin university the police chief made the assurance that the incident was not racially motivated even if it may not have been in that instance there is a long history where race plays a major factor in false calls that the police a lot of times callers know that the police will more likely respond and respond urgently when they include race in a false report any cooper knew this when she called the police claiming that a black man was threatening her life and a little known fact about

a more famous case or its 1st texas it all started with a false report about a black man going crazy with a firearm in an apartment in lawrence case this led to a bad arrest based off of about law but this is not always the case and an encounter with the police can easily turn out deadly as in the cases of tamar rice and briana taylor this happens more than a 1000 times a year at this place in the u.s. right now a lot of people are used to community are asking what should be done about it what can we do about it lida from a legal perspective do we need some new laws here we absolutely need some new laws here as i mentioned a few moments ago right now in most jurisdictions very it's very little on the law books in state statutes that would directly respond to this except for those very statutes that criminalize false reports reports to the police or to 911 but i think beyond law i think we have to come at it from

a couple of angles and this goes back to something that molina said i think that even if we had a law on the book there could still be people who let's say somehow. honestly but incorrectly believe that someone at her home is holding them hostage let's say that that were true and let's say that it was just completely wrong one of the big issues is the heavily militarized response of a number of our law enforcement. members we probably along with creating some laws that would criminalize false reports we also need to create mechanism so that our law enforcement community responds to these sorts of potential peril without going in as if they are going to war i mean it is not for nothing that this has been called swatting that refers to the swat special weapons and tactics those of us who have read about a member of the eighty's recall that this was the era of big militarized policing

and that's often the kind of response that we get so yes i do think we need some more laws on the book we need local laws that is to say at the at the city level we need state level laws that could be widely used in criminal courts of jurisdictions but also i think mention this this should be also federalized very often these callers are contacting people or contacting the police across state lines. i'm going to have to wrap it up there here's what we need to leave viewers with this is not a hopes this is terrorism this is dangerous in a sounds like we need new laws to catch up with it but i think all my guests for joining me today that's it for me this week next time you'll see to me ok back in her chair so thanks for joining us we call this treatment susan.

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