says times to work together to overcome the country's problems. regular morally better and we are born from the love of her own innovator we feel the love of the people here there is no hate to business here what we have is the desire to raise argentino once and for a lot of. the pandemic continues to wreak havoc in argentina 25000 people dead with 890-0000 infected with businesses closing in unemployment and homelessness rising to cope with 19 viruses also highlighting stop historic divisions. and when they're all dizzy or what osiris. now again i'm fully back to bill with the headlines on al-jazeera a new humanitarian ceasefire between armenia and azerbaijan is now in effect it follows violence over the disputed region of back at previous shows reached

a week ago failed to hold in the u.s. president trump is campaigning in 2 swing states his now in wisconsin after arriving in michigan the pressure is on as his democratic challenger joe biden is leading in many national polls with just over 2 weeks before the election john hendren has more from washington. he's been playing defense all across the map in florida georgia and iowa he's been campaigning those are all states that he should have handily in his column by now but national polls show him behind across the u.s. the latest poll i saw said 12 percentage points behind joe biden and he's also behind in key battleground states those include michigan in wisconsin the 2 states that he's going to now so he has been aggressive there speaking very much like he's on the steroids that he was on just days ago when he tested positive for the coronavirus standing in front of the air force one showing people that he's back.

and women's marches have been taking place across the u.s. against president protesting against his pick for supreme court justice amy connie barrett if confirmed sheetrit case ruth bader ginsburg who died last month. in lebanon protesters have a year since this mass on thai government demonstrations they're calling for a complete overhaul of the political system the suspects who beheaded a teacher near paris was a teenager of chechen descent the school is believed to have received multiple threats after he showed a controversial image of the prophet mohammed and an arms embargo imposed on iran 13 years ago has expired it was lifted us part of the 2015 nuclear deal with well despite objections from the u.s. coming up next since i story.

nearly a decade after the fukushima nuclear disaster japan's government is considering releasing gold and a 1000000 tons of treated radioactive water into the. but how will people in the area and japan's neighbors react this is inside story. welcome to the program i mean ron come on it's been nearly 10 years since the fukushima nuclear disaster in japan still struggling to manage its consequences one of the most serious challenges involves some 1200000 tonnes of contaminated water that still being stored near the site this week japanese media reported the

government is considering releasing that water into the pacific ocean something that's prompted complaints from japanese fishermen and neighboring governments will bring in our guests in just a moment but 1st let's remind you of what happened at the fukushima nuclear power plant the site was destroyed by a powerful earthquake and tsunami that struck off the northeastern coast of japan in march of 2011 in the days that followed its cooling systems failed and tons of radioactive material leaked into the air and sea japan's government designated a large of vacuum ration zone around the plant and more than 150000 people were forced to leave their homes an extensive operation to decommission the plant is expected to take decades but the plant operator now says they're running out of space to store the contaminated water. let's bring in our guests now in amsterdam yan have account sr experts on nuclear

energy and energy policy at greenpeace in tokyo michael prior president of the shin gets to news agency and also in tokyo tomohiko taniguchi a former special advisor to the cabinet oceans are also professor at the care university graduate school of system design and management welcome to you all i'd like to begin in tokyo with you tomohiko taniguchi the fact that they're doing this now the fact that they are considering releasing this treated radioactive water into the pacific ocean has many people alarmed why would they dump radioactive water into the pacific ocean there are 2 kinds of names to. call water and mr khan you're using 2 descriptions one is to call it contaminated another treated the fact of the matter is it is

that the amount of. water no longer contaminated because there is an hour range meant and system called alcs that is advanced a liquid processing system the only remaining radio active material is. but everyone knows the tritium is on pole in our poll supply and natural water's a bowl kinds it is in the human body and if you ask anyone in this field even if you drink the water. that has a treaty and in it it'll it'll cause no harm and so the japanese government and the advice given by the i a e a hoss been considering ways to release the war either to vapor

into the air or to released into the sea and i think in a week or so the government is going to have a decision but why all the government considering releasing it into the pacific ocean if they do have of options well it is the easiest way and given the huge amount of true rated warter i think it is. swift swift and the easiest way and indeed that's exactly what all the nuclear power plants across the world have been doing for decades but those nuclear power plants haven't been destroyed in the tsunami yet another quake i mean this is a this is a very distinct sholay well that's that's one point that you should mention but the other thing is the total amount of tritium released by some nuclear power plants around japan actually involved have been big in

amount on the anti amount of tritium stored on site at the fukushima daiichi power plant. so you would be happy for your family once this is happening the water has gone into the pacific ocean to eat the fish that is fished in those waters you'd be happy to drink from those waters to go into those waters if you ever went to the beach you think it's all business as usual fisherman are grossly unhappy and docks why this is difficult and that's why it's taken us for the japanese government to consider this despite the this fight the call from the. day to move swiftly and i think it's going to take some more months between tried to negotiate between the fishing community and the central government i think there must be some sort of understanding cut between the 2

parties. yeah to have a campaign. it's all perfectly safe it's been treated this is on advice from various different scientific organizations what is that worry about well in the moment that i hear the word treatment being used instead of contaminated comment. think differently then this is a kind of newspeak yes the water is treated. but the system that is treating it help system. is not as effective as it was hoped to be many years ago when they started using it and the water that we talk about is still contaminated he still has traces of stone to 90 and other isotopes where else has not been him to functional tamale. of course the biggest problem that we do face is trees you mean the in the in the water and. then

coming forward and saying well there is not a problem treating is being emitted everywhere in the world and it's in seawater yes but we're going to talk about a large amount of treats you know it's going to be put into the system directly near to or directly in the fukushima prefecture. the the i think the crucial words that we just heard was beef and he see that as well taco and the japanese government would like to do they want to get rid of this problem safe and easy so the everybody will forget about it especially these attempts of being wrong already for a long time we've seen it tends to to make for sure try in trying to make sure go away phrases in the run up to the union to games that are planned for this year that are no date to into next year. that is the provision of a nuclear problem is a large problem and. i think i have to say that i. i have

a lot of compassion for the fisherman and other people who have you are making their living and usual prefecture in toronto it and who fear for their income at the moment that this will take place. we have been arguing already for years that it is better to take your time to take care that treatment is happening to down to levels which are under the acceptable rules and not to take certain decisions that will cause the amounts of water to be emitted that do not meet the normal current tyria but yet have a count all its isn't something that will concrete you can tell us i mean you know you're saying actually the fisherman to be kind of you know up in arms about this and will be upset about this but you haven't actually said what the effect of that contaminated that treated water going into the pacific ocean might be and our guest

in tokyo suggests that there won't be any effect. well if they're if if if there would have been very clear signs about low levels of radiation very clear signs about how treats humans behaving itself and ecosystems that we would be able to have another discussion about the problem is that that exact science is not there there's a lot of uncertainty about the effects of treats you know. for instance the the canadian more term court is is using prettier which are 20 times as sharp as the current t.v. which or france is used by the i.a.e.a. and they do that with good reason because they have found out that there is a lot of uncertainty and that there are facts that should should weigh into the whole discussion at the moment that you're talking about these kind of uncertainties you use the so-called speak or 3 principle and in this case that is not a problem at all there is no problem at all in story more water over time and continuing

to search for better ways to treat this water and the search moment is water treatment to wait that in fulfills the criteria before it is the released into for instance the ocean but it's abysmal and what we see is in the swift and he's we see . pressure on the whole system not for scientific reasons but simply for economic reasons let's bring in michael paine has also in tokyo he's the president of the shin gets a news agency michael this is clearly been a huge talking point in japan itself it seems to me given what i've been reading that the 1st line of defense against dumping this water into the pacific ocean is the fishermen and the fishing industry what are their objections to all of this. well so you know i think it's instinctually most people could understand what it is you know the 2 previous guests have kind of shown you already the spectrum of the

scientific debate on the one hand you have the japanese government which very much insists there is absolutely no danger here and then you have other other critics who say well we don't know for certain that it's dangerous but we don't know for certain that's not so nice. for saying there's uncertainty about whether or not there might be a problem down the road from from releasing this water into the ocean but you know whether or not. whichever side the scientific argument is on i think there is a great deal of certainty that when people read in their newspapers that treated contaminated water from the fukushima daiichi disaster is being dumped into the pacific ocean near fukushima that it's going to have an effect on the ability of these fisherman to be able to sell their fish because people are going to say well we're not 100 percent sure it is safe now that could be bad reporting or it could

be a scientific. discretion or science or just being prudent but the reality the economic reality for these fishermen is real and you can expect that their debt their businesses will be damaged by it whether or not it's safe or or not safe but look you just take the temperature for us in japan. is the public behind this move is is it a popular move to to to say that actually that the water is safe they can be dumped or is it is a people divided as one of the well the japanese public might be thinking. well to be honest i have i haven't seen a specific poll that's asked about that cyc i cannot answer that question with precision but i would say that you know because of the history on the fukushima issue particularly before the accident when when the government did insist that everything was quite safe with the operation nuclear plants and because of things

like revelations that tepco a new foreign aid years in advance of the accidents that a tsunami could potentially do damage enough to to create such an accident you know essentially that there were you could argue lies told to the public in the past about nuclear power and so because of that you know justified or not there's i think a lot of people see skep look at government claims and tepco claims tepco being the operator of the plant with a great deal of skepticism and you know people you know i don't think anybody would like the idea that the seafood on their plate comes from a place where treated radioactive water has been recently dumped so you know again it's a matter of perception what whichever side the reality is on has had a gauge it's a matter of perception your government hasn't got the confidence of the people

because of things that happened in the past you think you will be the government will be able to push this through if that's the path it decides to go to. truly it is perception not science perception sometimes dogs marta than anything else which is to be understood by anyone dealing with this issue. but. when it comes to scientific evidence a huge amount of evidence house already been there in the sense. of fish stocks that fishing community fukushima daiichi. relies upon is not contaminated so they complaints and worries understandably for the fishing community around the power plant are much

to do with the perception and they are telling the japanese government to do more on the perception and. as your guest from the netherlands says if it's possible for all of the tokyo electric power company to take. before things are going to be settled they could do that but they have already built $1000.00 nearly $1000.00. and on site in the plant there is a very little room physically left them to continue to build tonks and i think 2021 i think next year is going to be the limit which is why the sense of urgency have kicked in yet have a come what's your reaction. well that is exactly what we're talking about 1st of

all the designs and i just want to make one remark about the signs here. there is no guarantee about the amount of radioactive substances that are still remaining in the 1200000 tons that tepco wants to emit into the ocean they also are going to take 2 more years to prepare for that so even don't know exactly what the money situation will be playing down there what we do know is that the government with this blind certainty and let go of wanting to talk about uncertainties for years already has been say we can't do this we are doing this and every time again it appears again that the op system for instance was not performing to what it needed to do so those are the dumps that we have and that we see all around us are justified and. of course the amount of space on site is limited and it's only getting fuel to go beyond that and be aware that in the coast so there is

still ample space that will cost and it comes to a coast the reason why ted owens and continue with this is the question of cost it's trying to cut costs and with that risk in decent livelihood over for instance a fishery community there but also how the people who are trying to make their livelihoods in the fukushima prefecture but yet have a cap we do have to be realistic head that is an economics consideration to take into consideration there is you know you have to make this cost effective and what our guest in tokyo is saying is that this is the most cost effective way of doing it. well the most cost effective way would have been to take the heat to take the morning or for a loss to the tsunami seriously and invest in the time we have now seen a contest or fee for which there is trying to bunches responsibility time and can

and this is one of the very many instances where temp was trying to do that and i am very sympathetic to to mine to my japanese friends in the region who say we've seen this once twice tens dozens of times happen in tepco tries to get away for it because of course it is troubling of course of history cannot be. but it is the responsibility that it is scary for catastrophe than this course and walking away from that responsibility and then in the process of destroying the livelihoods of even more people than they have already done is not acceptable to the hca tentatively why is this under consideration and not the vaporization plan is the vaporization plan much more expensive. our of course it's going to be much much more expensive and it will take much much more time in terms of the bail ability for the conchs its role full stop i have been there on site

and have taken a close look at how narrow space has already become and so it's going to be impossible for ted got responsible or not to make more tonks so why doesn't tepco deserve what is on time haitian i should suggest you go to canadian nuclear plant called bruce a nuclear generating station a known area and test the water to see how contaminated it is tritium has been. released from that plant in a massive number and that that has caused no more harm to the fishing community nearby but. you are talking about tepco being responsible for this now as i understand it it's not just this has to be the japanese government as well they have to take much more responsibility than they have done is that right certainly

it is in the 1st place tepco says responsibility building those massive number of times has come from the shrinking profit of tepco so so long as tepco could carry on his tepco his responsibility michael penn what do the japanese people think of that what do you what did the journalists there in japan think of that it's you know this is effectively a private company that is managing a national ecological disaster. well that lying is not really so clear in japan you know i mean effectively in the wake of the accident tepco is more or less nationalized in terms of its structure of who's who's calling the shots but that was you know we talk about the big industrial enterprises like this

they always work very closely with the ministries which which oversee them and so you know what this isn't. the system of the business structure in japan isn't exactly the same as you would see in europe or the united states where there's a pretty clear distinction between the public and private sector is also what you're saying i'd like to so you're saying is michael that the japanese government isn't doing enough big and but it could. well let's put it this way it's the japanese government that's ultimately calling the shots i think would be a fair a fair assessment the ministries which are involved are the ones who are you know it's probably ministry bureaucrats who are making the key decisions not some you know private sector individuals who are operating on their own you don't have a camp the japanese government is responsible and needs to do more what's the international response to that what is there any international pressure that can be

put on an 8 and a help to the japanese government oh there's several forms of of international pressure growing all of this small and 1st of all these issues already has already been discussed in the international maritime organization no to come back there again because there are international obligations that are only japan that he. gets to make these kind of emissions so we will see that kind of international pressure continue on the japanese governments to come to know that this issue. then of course there is also. possible further support. especially in the in the reaal move the treaty asians so that means removing treats you from the torture there are developments going well technically guns at this moment. that newt's needs implementation and it will not be easy and it is one of the big problems that we face with its regime of to disaster is we absolutely not be prepared for

exhaustion of these kind and we're trying to mitigate its impacts only go on the fly so to speak and that is very key visible here is well we don't have to we did not have the technology before hints to clean importer and the treaty properly we have to think of that now when we are into these had only 2 these problems these developments are ongoing and the japanese government instead of keeping an arm's length route and yet. this is going to have that we are running out of time and there is one very quick question i want to ask all 3 of you before we go 1200000 tonnes of treated radioactive water may well go into the pacific ocean to tell him would you eat japanese fish after that happens. certainly i would drink that water myself michael paine would you i'm not sure i want to go jump into the tank and drink the water but in terms of eating seafood in japan

yeah i'm you know i wouldn't have a problem then i will i will eat seafood and you don't have a company were shaking your head you're not going to be any japanese seafood if this happens. to. me the question is are these you're there to see if we true since japanese cd release. is all my menu regularly. i find it so this is. i want to thank all our gas you have a camp tomohiko taniguchi and michael pan and thank you to forging you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out 0 dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a.j. inside story for me and ron cowen and the entire team here by going to.

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your worry man is not a political statement it's a scientific like imitation of the final presidential t.v. debate live on al-jazeera. now am fully back to bill in doha with a look at our main stories on al-jazeera a new ceasefire between armenia and azerbaijan is now in place to humanitarian truce came into effect at 20 g.m.t. after an attack on the as eerie city of ganja which came at least 600 civilians this is the 2nd attempt to stop nearly 3 weeks of violence they've been fighting over the disputed region of nagorno-karabakh. bernas smith is in armenia capital yes on this information about the new truce is come from the armenian side and the armenians that have been pushing for a cease.