freezing the laptev sea is known as the birthplace of ice this is the longest it's known to have gone without freezing over scientists believe it's because of a record breaking heat wave and changing waters in the atlantic ocean they're worried the lack of ice will cause chain reactions across the arctic. this is al jazeera and these are the headlines u.s. president donald trump and his democratic nominee joe biden have held their final debates before the election less than 2 weeks. microphones went for far less chaotic and students than the 1st. we had the best black unemployment numbers in the history of our country hispanic women asian people with diplomas with no diplomas mit graduates number one in the class everybody had the best

numbers and you know what the other side wanted to get together they wanted to unify success is going to bring us together we run the road to success but i'm cutting taxes and he wants to raise everybody's taxes and he wants to put new regulations are never think he will kill it if he gets in you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen we can grow this economy we can deal with the systemic racism and the same time we can make sure that our economy is being run and moved and motivated by clean energy creating millions of new jobs and that's the fact that's what we're going to do and i'm going to say as i said to beginning what is on the ballot here is the character of this country decency honor respect treating people with dignity making sure that everyone has an even chance and i'm going to make sure you get that. guinea's president salva condé is on course to win

a controversial 3rd term according to early results at least 13 people have been killed since sunday's election opposition candidate civil delhi india says he will contest the results in courts nigeria's president has addressed the nation for the 1st time since protests began over police brutality 2 weeks ago mamadou bihari called for calm but he didn't mention of protesters in lagos on tuesday. scientists in france saying cope with 19 a spreading faster now than at the peak of the 1st wave in march a record 42000 new infections were confirmed on thursday governments across europe are tightening restrictions. and that's you up to date to stay with us here on al-jazeera the stream is up next. as protests continue calling for the resignation of president.

some of the women who have become the driving force of the protests. talk to al jazeera. and i welcome to the stream i'm femi oke a with less than 2 weeks before the u.s. presidential election facebook is again in the spotlight over how it is tackling misinformation and hate speech on its platform today we look at the efforts of one pressure group holding facebook to account and what the company itself is doing to clean house in the run up to election day if you're watching on the cheap you can send us your comments and questions from the life chat adding part of today's conversation and you could always tweet us put a strong. u.s. democracy is at risk hold facebook to account that is the declaration of

a new group of social media experts criticizing the company's content moderation policies as the u.s. election approaches the collective of activists journalists and academics calls itself the real facebook oversight board here's what one member of the group said it's not sufficient. we demand comprehensive action to ensure that race cannot be weaponized to undermine the vote and with that american democracy ours is an emergency intervention are evident mr zuckerberg and facebook employees. now approach their 9 minute of the 11th hour in this democratic crisis and the time for excuses and political deals is. facebook's official oversight board announced it will start accepting cases

today joining us to talk more about responsibilities of facebook during the elections in london cow cadwallader she's organizer of the real facebook oversight board and a journalist at the guardian and observe a newspaper this kate's clinic is assistant professor at st john's university law school i was researching facebook's own oversight effort she is in new york andy patton gosh co-director of digital platforms and democracy project at harvard's kennedy school he joins us from cambridge massachusetts and everybody we also invited facebook to join us and they didn't offer up a guess but they did copy and paste a statement from earlier on this month so i will show you some of the highlights of that statement during the sheva it was really good to see carol the real facebook oversight board of calling this moment and emergency what is the emergency the magic. special me yet. of which there is

absolutely no. oversight or accountability is about to make absolutely critical decisions which are going to affect the outcome of the us election and also the chance we're a power and it's quite terrifying the amount of power that it has in this situation and how little it's done since 2016 when we know that it was used to facilitate and it's hacked on the u.s. democracy by russia and. there are very many people who've come to get the experts who come together on the real place who are they in many of them are genuinely terrified about what's going to happen in the next few weeks and that facebook may be used to incite violence and in fact i say may be used but we

know that it is already being used to incite violence undermine the election and to vote and you know that is something which i think the whole world news became attention to right at the moment we got the other guys not able to fire on at to create the not. well carol it's absolutely right and this is why i love oversight for its work so much. let's let's look at the actual oversight board for a moment it looks at a narrow set of cases. you know is a very narrow set of opportunities it's not it's branded as an oversight board over the company and yet its actual oversight it's actually 40 over the company it's almost 9 and as compared to the to. you economic social and political impact of the company itself. and so. i i think i

think time has come for us to really pull big feet to the fire certainly facebook's . as as a company that is having that in fact and is not doing right by by democracy. i think we are getting. ok just a few hours before we went live today. this starting today facebook and facebook itself canards the forward to independently independent review content decisions that this is the official facebook oversight board not the real oversight board just so that we don't think this is facebook's one the pressure quick so on and they basically tell you what you need to do how they can to handle a tape what do you make of this is is this progress that we're seeing right here. yeah so i kind of want to i was nodding before i would carolyn stand because they actually agree with the idea that the company sort of way too powerful and do not

have good leverage points and that there isn't an effective means of oversight i don't have any disagreement with that in fact i think it's the real say or a group that like setting up like is going to have an impact and like i i i'm kind of of the opinion that we should throw like everything at the wall and see what sticks and in the world of trying to figure out how to manage these massive corporations and their their control and their governance over basic human rights. but i will say this which is that. it's kind of a fiction that dick just said it. i. like to say that he is a fan of the real over the real oversight boards that like carol set out over the oversight board when the oversight board which is independent from facebook which is made up of an independent group of experts which is funded completely separately

and has a mandate to hear court like appeals from users and how does actual purchase although narrow over the ability of facebook to make its policy decisions like that it doesn't have like impact like the real oversight board that carol set up has p.r. impact but that's the only thing that it has and that's no better than what we've had already let me just bring in here i don't rush. on one. very quickly and then who alan he's one of the board members from the official facebook oversight a board guy i think i hope i'm not going to say things mean that i didn't say that it doesn't have no impact but it meant no impact but rather that it has very limited in. very limited impact as compared to the tremendous economic political and what it was like for me was limited to me doesn't you know is it more or less

limited then like what the oversight board. yeah i don't even know what that even means you got to take down 50 percent more tweets all 20 percent what does that even mean to fiat as they used all the facebook wall what does little to mean i can almost like social media check to monetize a bit of it well what can you clarify i say i can't push that but i don't understand what it means yeah. well kate mentioned that our heroes. charles real oversight board is it is or isn't. as a p.r. . here i am i think that actual oversight board is actually if you are at it yes it has a charter yes it's financially independent yes they have a process and yes i think that it's been set up in a way that it actually does not really well the company accountable you know you

know considerable way and and to be a little bit more specific here facebook has a near future because of virtual monopoly it has a tremendous market power in social media it's that it's the dominant player through facebook and instagram and all that other applications. and there's a huge amount of economic activity that goes through facebook and that narrow off already that or has over certain pieces of content that the border has capacity to to take upon itself to review and which facebook allows the board to review. is just going to result in not that much impact when we think about the vast majority of. content issues that we have on the platform today on the company's platforms today as well as its economic calendar how can i get.

this idea that it's critical and you know i hope that it can have. issues around which piece of content came back up again that you didn't and this is the seed green cool if the now did you mean cool it don't try it will remember is that it's a supremes rule all of these numbers have been selected by frank but now that people who are on the real facebook i got the top on the shoulder and also joined and i think i really do you question how independent at the moment and i. i know that there are you know it really feels. very glad to them but and how did it how did i how can i bring in a distrust to your point because there's a gallon rush butter i know you know and his word in the party he's been the editor of the guardian. former editor in chief of the guardian newspaper. he was asked

this question how independent can you actually be and this is what he does have a lot of merit there were quite a lot of places ok people on the zune call. now there are. no none of us. and we haven't as a board met anybody from facebook and i think we're very conscious that we don't work race but we're we are an independent. oversight board and now do you know i'm whether somewhere down the road we might want to have a dialogue with facebook but at the moment. facebook. are simply not in the room. so i think what i was facing saying is that we don't work for facebook we are independent people that have a look at some of these independent board members who are cowards one no point in this they want to move on yeah i know it's

a really great point and you know and of course you know it's you know commanding figure it and so many of those people are you know like really intellectuals huge reputations and of course they are independent but the thing you back to the reason is that we have seen in facebook's actions towards us as a group and what what they have tried to do in terms of trying to kill the project before it even started in terms of these different spoiler moves that it's made in terms of in fact even getting our web site you know the internet these are moves which have been made by facebook and we even when i sent inquiries to face the oversight board i did face the executives. so there is definitely a relationship there and that's not as i say it's not the cost of their actions on any of them and you know as i say are all really individuals in their own right but

this is the structure which has been paid all set established by faced with turns and references set by the base that charter my base that i really hope that this rebel and so they say well gee that because that's a and i hope that we help by giving them leverage and support in that way and i think they have to i really do think that they need to go wrote let me push on a little bit because people are watching a senate commenting so look as sad as they can put this to you will also come to have an oversight board. as me i'm not one for having one there's one oversight board just like there is why and like set of community standards and policies for all of facebook we don't have a balkanized internet and terms of like these platforms the reason they comply individually with laws within countries and they do that there are geo blocking so for example holocaust denial is illegal or sorry holocaust denial is illegal in

france and germany and so they like they will geo lock certain types like speech in france and germany but it's legal in the united states and so they don't do it there. so there's not this isn't this isn't about geography it's but i just wanted to say something really quick because i think that like we're there's just there's just small amount of like and i know that a 30 minute talk on live t.v. is never the best place to really like break bread and like make make like kind of like inroads on things but i do want to say that like everything that has been said so far by the other guests i agree with i just don't think that what there is yet is like a reason to be skeptical of the actual oversight board which is its own independent organization to carol's point i think it could take up the mantle that she kind of is like pushing for or the ground is pushing for i think that those that i possibility use i just don't think it has to come at the cost of that tool

necessarily like. my kind of just like dragging it all over the media like there's still a chance that the overstay. could do something really significant and i don't think it cost us a lot to put some hope in that town let me just in lighten everybody because. in a great position cause they already know what the real facebook oversight who are asking for but here in a tweet very easy for everyone to access the demands facebook doesn't force its own policy banning all paid advertising that mentions presidential election results. about presidential election results as untrue and premature until one candidate is the president elect and the other candidate concedes just so that everybody here is on the same page about what it is that you are pushing to have done carol may i've put one more you to comment to you so that we're sharing our conversation without audience i'm sure you've heard this before simone smith says facebook is free

speech if you control facebook you have lost your freedom carol. i mean. i should get somebody else through that when i mean the idea that your quitting 3 speech you're investing one man one billionaire mark zuckerberg with the power to start decreasing your home there's more than 3000000000 people across the globe who use facebook products i mean if that's your idea of free speech that's an unknown algorithm we've got no idea how it works and certain messages and doesn't amplify other ones one of the things we see and fine that's been a white supremacist we've got no idea how that works or what's going on inside the company and i that's not free speech that's you know that's that artificially

enhanced and amplified and that's just one of the many issues going on but i mean can i just come back on something which is the thing that kate said about not be cynical about the oversight board and you know i really do wish them all the very best of luck and i hope also that a good outcome but i think it's certainly wrong not to be cynical or facebook now as a journalist who's been reporting on this company for 4 years who has had i have had e.c. in a report in which they find facebook $100000000.00 they say that facebook like to journalist is one of your lists who is like you but face the last week when are we launched launched the real facebook oversight board i had columns man coming out on twitter to troll me personally once using to pressing wineries about why our state our website had been taken down he came out to troll

me about cambridge generally 6 which is the story i wrote and which facebook was fined $5000000000.00 for using people. and corporate reaction was to. go out on twitter and attack me personally now i now read and sexily and shrug and it makes me really wonder about what is going on inside what. i'm what its relationship is with the current white house guess i didn't mention the face but wouldn't send a guest to sit alongside you but they did send a copy and paste it statement it did have a spelling error in it so they see the spelling i it's not me it's facebook alright so this is what they said they have done a very easy for the us election so between march and september of this year they've removed more than 120000 pieces of facebook and instagram content in the u.s.

they've displayed warnings they've rejected some missions before they could run about 2200000 times they've removed it and now it's 13 networks and coordinated in authentic. they said they've done a lot we also wanted to bring a research record shot and seem who was looking at these all the things that facebook of everyday reacted really well shalen has a but let's have a listen. facebook is going in some things way in the run up to the 2020 alexion they put a lot of friction around the false information story that was in the new york post about joe biden and they also have finally removed the q. an armed groups although some myself included would say that came a little too late to be deeply affected of what we still worry about or what i still worry about is that there is not going to be swift and decisive action on claims that we know will be coming from the president and his allies about a contested election and calls to violence at the polls or afterwards facebook is

still paying too much consideration to the political outcomes of their decisions instead of thinking about what is the right decision with democracy as the goal post. this is a lot for a social media platform to handle i am wondering d. hand is it even possible what the ask is what the expectation is because facebook is so huge easy actually possible for them to act responsibly for everybody who's using this platform. it's totally possible and let's be clear there are many apps facebook and a lot of them are aligned you know around its privacy practices around its digital advertising practices around its algorithmic practices and carol through the real oversight board has made a lot of those demands or for policy suggestions clear as as have i and many others in various formats including when i worked at facebook. and so on

so i think that there are i think that the terms are very clear it's just a matter of asking the question do these demands align with facebook's business model and let's be clear again this is a business model going has historic profit margins. it's a business model that serves an entire financial infrastructure sitting behind facebook of shareholders investors and so com bally that executive order of facebook and its executives and themselves and the company is going to do whatever it can to protect that business model even if it means setting up an oversight board that is facially independent. and then composed of 3rd parties 3rd party researchers and scholars to give the impression to the public around the world that yes there is oversight of facebook by these 40 independent individuals

or 20 whatever whatever the number might be and when in fact there isn't this is that they bring this is the oversight board i mean come on this this board is going to be looking at a few pieces of content and you're content. so does that mean that if i were to fiat and what we've had this very robust conversation about oversight pulled and how much oversight you were doing on the law and on the ah. chain of conversation that's watching all of you guessed there's a lot of mistrust about facebook in the chat and i think probably because they've heard mark zuckerberg say things like this this is a congressional us hearing back in october of last year and he's talking about that same spot lies online and he actually he would take this have a look so you won't take down lies or you will take down lives i mean there's just a pretty simple yes or no on this woman in my talk about spin i'm talking about actually yes there seems to me in

a democracy i believe that people should be able to see for themselves what politicians that they may or may not vote for or you are in want take it out there for themselves so you want to you may flag that it's wrong but you want to take it down congresswoman. it depends on the context that it shows up organic post. so i guess i'm kind of squirming listening to that because it is a it's a lie which is a lie why not just say yes carol. because mark zuckerberg has no moral compass reno is fundamentally the problem i mean you know you started out i mean you know at one point we you know so many people loved it was like you know it was the word you know in your friends in your family and then you know then he was found to be still it's a good gender studies in my own are you know that's what

a united nations report said is that it played to determining role in the genocide in mind. and you know what i consequence was that absolutely nothing guests and you know maines at the company after that. you know guess this time so you're right well they seem to be. an island has crossed the word so many countries where you. rely on. many many you k. d. fi aren't. i and i'm basically going to say that this conversation has got so much more energy in it and much more time as kate pointed out about 15 minutes ago now text says maybe we should just suspend facebook during erection to avoid confusion and the spread of lies by individuals thank you guess what a robust conversation. we shall see the election is just 2 weeks away thank you for

joining us our c.n.n. x. time. keeping law and order is a primary function of any state. protecting the people became police brutality a domestic incident became a global lock. in a country torn apart by racial inequality. americans find a leader to unite them. follow the key issues of the us elections. on al-jazeera. when i think of my nightshirt i think of potential when i think of what a shot i think or what it is not that i think people need to do to do. something they come to. tell me it's impossible i think the challenge. the reason the

challenge in the country alex. and this is my energy. on al-jazeera. from london is one of the most unfortunate cities in the world and decisions made here have an impact on friday around the globe and so here at al-jazeera we will show you the true impact of those decisions on people and how it affects their every day that. we are free to put them on air and to really engage those stories because we know that all audience is interested not just in the mainstream news but also the more hidden stories from parts of the world that often go under reported. in countries like mine people have been killed too because we in the united states have privatized the ultimate public option. this was a deal with saudi arabia things were done differently saudis and other arabs they came to britain to be told to help to pass bombs deals you know you will rumsfeld

this meeting saddam isn't that interesting. shadow on al-jazeera. we're opening up our country we've learned and studied and understand the disease learning to live with it c'mon we're dying with. donald trump and joe biden clash on familiar issues but they're 2nd 3rd final presidential debates is much more subtle than the 1st. fellow that he had seen and this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up. it is president of course for victory in elections that have brought violence and down.