tv Inside Story Al Jazeera November 13, 2020 8:30pm-9:01pm +03
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of the messages in turkmenistan, a rather unusual statue is beyond veiled, allowed to call the sculpture of the country's beloved dog. now over, that's one of the capital's busiest roads. it's accompanied by a screen that shows the central asian ship, the dog in action. the statue joins another one in a junction nearby of the president, seated on a horse. watching al-jazeera reminds now of our top stories. thousands of people pouring across ethiopia's border into saddam to escape fighting between the ethiopian army and great regional forces. the federal government has appointed a new head of the region top u.s. election officials have described the presidential vote as the most secure in u.s. history. it comes as more republicans break ranks with donald trump over his refusal to cooperate with president elect joe biden. china has congratulated biden
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on securing the win for the white house. it comes after trump banned americans from doing business with companies owned or controlled by the chinese military. it will take effect days before trump is due to step down. gabriel, arizona has more from wilmington, delaware on how biden might handle relations with china. so what you can expect is a couple things, a more multilateral approach to china, number one, and also more of an approach holding things such as democracy and human rights on the same level as trade and economic issues. that would be something that would be a little different than what's been the u.s. policy, the last 4 years lasley 0 point out. there could be some points of cooperation between biden presidency with china, and that could come down to 2 things. number one, climate change biden has said that is very much at the top of his list of priorities to deal with. and you can't deal with climate change without engaging
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china. and the 2nd one is new, that could be the global coronavirus pandemic. the u.s. top infectious disease expert says the country can avoid another crowd of eyes lock down if people get serious about social distancing and wearing masks. called for vigilance. on the say, the us report of more than $150000.00 new cases. several european countries have warned, it's too early for people to stop planning end of year holiday travel that says record numbers of corona, virus infections are reported across the continent. hundreds of drones have lit up the sky in south korea, forming colorful messages of hope during the pandemic. as messages with things like way of mosques and cheer up. the headlines to stay with us inside story is coming up next.
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one of the most powerful officials in south africa's ruling party charged with corruption. critics say the case is politically motivated. the government insists it's part of the president's promise to root out ground. so will he be able to clean up the government? this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program, fraud and corruption. those are the charges facing the a.n.c. secretary general, emotionally, who appeared in court on friday. the case centers around a scandal about 6 years ago when he was the head of free state,
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millions of dollars allocated to remove us. best of us from homes went missing, i guess really denies any wrongdoing. he's the most senior a.n.c. official to face prosecution since the president took office. has promised to stamp out graft in the party and government. but he's accused of making this case personal because my chalet is an a.n.c. heavyweight and from a rival faction. it's the latest incident to expose divisions within the party as you see it. as for me, the miller was at the courthouse in bloemfontein. about 5 years ago, the governments of the free state province, which was run by then premier a smuggler, awarded a contract to a company to identify homes with moves made from as best, a sheeting, there's based as making people ill and was supposed to be removed and the rooms replaced, it appears that of the 15 $1000000.00 paid for the work, just a 10th of that was actually used to do the work. but none of the rules replaced. instead, millions of dollars was looted. it's alleged that instructions for payment to this
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company and its sub contractors came from the office of a smuggler. and that he may have talkative, close to a $1000000.00, has been tranche of fraud and corruption. he's released on bail and will again appear in court next year. others may be the 1st time that the secretary general of the a.n.c. has been tried, but it's certainly not the 1st time. he's been linked to corruption scandals in this province. some people have come down to the united states, get them some from the family mother. she charges against him. and i was gonna have a side of him was far from my feet from the sun from across our side of him. and i was right beside the result of our
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few games, something that i had to cause further division within. i know ready to launch a good day and meet a party that spirity in crisis. could i'm alone put in fred, still read it. all right, listen, reduce our panel in pretoria. somewhat though the fi caney, an independent political and policy analyst affiliated with the university of south africa. and in johannesburg, david lewis, executive director, director at corruption watch which encourages public participation in combating graft. welcome to you both. some of those, let me start with you. how powerful is ace my guess? surely, and how significant is it that a case has been brought against him? he's quite a powerful figure in the sense that he was elected to become the sole attorney general of the ruling party,
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which is akin to being and minister to and political c.e.o. of the ruling party. so true that extern da has the luck to toot, to move around on full time basis, mobilizing, at the same time used also very much linked to the former president, jacob zuma. we still agree by many things which are taking place within the a.n.c. . and he believes he's also a victim, or all of you know, much of nations within the new a.n.c. leadership. a.n.c. is a deeply divided organisation almost equal ups. so the battle for the soul of the in c. will be afforded all over those. that's why i tend to have a sense of conspiracy whenever there is a move. and it also represents the clash of prospectives because. ready a smart car, surely, or is there one person who presents himself as that we present that you call it
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your logical side of the ear and see who will implement there is a lucian's of the n.c. on the other side, president several of them up was a promise to fight corruption and the renewal of the a.n.c. and grow the economy. david from your vantage point, what are the political ramifications of all of this? well, i think there are very profound, you know, the a.n.c. is at the core of our corruption problem and toll the division is in the n.t. a sorted out. and i don't hold out much hope for the 2 factions to continue living in the same party. but i'm told they are there this, the factional fighting sorted out. we're not going to conquer corruption. and one of the reasons why the factional fight lost to, to the extent that they have,
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and why corrupt people feel so comfortable in the n c. is that the leaders have had to effectively been exempt from that their attention of the law enforcement agencies and the fact that you know, one of the 2 most powerful leaders in the n c, one of the 2. my senior leaders in the n c has now been arrested and charged suggests that we might be approaching the point of no return between these 2 factions. and what is going to be interesting to see is how the a.n.c. reacts in the short term to the arrest and prosecution of, of, of the secretary general. because they're bound by a resolution to he is bound by read his resolution of the end,
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see it their last conference to step down from his position. but i somehow don't see that happening without huge pressure from the other side. and i'm not sure that they will have the courage to do that. some of those will this case against a smoker, surely benefit president obama pose a. will it make it easier for him to impose his will on such a divided ruling party? not immediately, the 1st thing we can expect is a perfect english. an old saw is very strong in the mid-term conference next year. so it is in the ground where it will come as to what i would use at the same time, it was a month. but it is not interfering in any all women should
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and it doesn't really care whether it is a person from use faction or person from another faction is involved as long as corruption is being fought. it might just be that their faction is facing, might be weakened by the law and prosecutions rather than in the battle of politics within the a.n.c. . so david, there are those who say that this case has nothing to do with corruption, that it's purely politically driven. what do you say? absolute nonsense. you know, obviously obviously there are, there are protests possible motives for politically driving this case. although i really don't believe that that rahm opposes doing that. you know, they could've charged with several corruption cases. quite
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frankly. i mean he was very involved in the infamous stina dairy case and he's. busy how do i say this? he has been mentioned in corruption issues for a very long time in the free state government, which he headed for a very long time. the tory asli in a corrupt government. and it's often been said about the free said government is that nothing happened in the free state without without a smug, prior knowledge and consent. so i don't believe that it has any validity whatsoever. the notion that this is purely politically driven and has nothing to do with corruption, i believe is no credibility whatsoever. so my daughter, you know, this case stems from a smoker shoelace alleged role in a $15000000.00 contract to find and remove as best as from homes in disadvantaged
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neighborhoods in the free state province. could you tell us more about how that played out? one of the there was money assigned for the removal of stores because of concerns and not all good businessmen who is politically connected and most of those of us were removed. and this businessman has also confirmed in this, under commission into the studio. he donated part of the money in seed sold, gave some individuals and frozen some of the money. so that is the ground to this particular issue. but as was mentioned by my colleague, there are several other cases we might need to it from within the province
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of 3 states and across the country up front to speak. you, david, how much outrage is there in south africa amongst the public when it comes to these allegations of corruption and the corruption cases? i think there's considerable outrage, you know, al, all model is to ask the public to, to furnish us with reports of corruption which they are doing great numbers. and we have a lot of contact with communities as well with very oppressed communities, very disadvantaged communities. and the best thing that has got going for it is that the public have not accepted that corruption is something that they can do. nothing about, you know, insert some countries that is indeed so, but not in south africa. and it's what i say it's out best. our
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best hope for tackling corruption is the fact that there is cause to newt outrage, as was exhibited recently, where when fans meant to provide protective personal equipment for doctors and nurses, and other hospital personnel was looted. and the public were outraged, you know, i would have thought by now they would have gotten used to it, but they're not. and, and, and long may that continue some of the that, what is the public sentiment right now when it comes to this case against a smoker? surely, how are people reacting in the country? the general morgan, the country, is that they do not care which folks in is affected, which politician, these are folks that they want some consequence money from and they want accountability. they want people involved in corruption to be taken to task,
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especially now that they have yellow. they call ups of state owned companies, the deficits that we have as well as the head cases that is the raising and the imposition of further levies on people to pay. now they are making the connection that if they look the other way, or if they leave things to just a few or n.g.o.s, then they are going to pay the price. they are beginning to see things in that fail over some of the stupid companies that they have not seen before. they're taken for granted. it is where you are beginning to see the rise of citizenship. which other ways we have not seen in a long walk. david, have there been other officials, arrested or properties seized in relation to this, especially those from movable contract that in the news because of the case against michael? surely. yes, i think somebody thought of my know this more accurately,
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but i think that 6 or 7 people were arrested several weeks ago, including the, the business man who owns the firm that was meant to actually remove their spaces. and number of other government officials. i'm not certain where the property has been seized already, but i think that it has been i seem to recollect in the case of the businessman about 35 luxury cars where seized but speaking to correction, david i'm, i think it has, i think as a seizure and freezing of assets has preceded already, and in fact, ace not surely will appear in court, i think on the 19th of february with those others who have already been charged some of those by and large. how does the public feel when it comes to the judicial
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system in south africa? do they have faith in it? they either strong faith in the judicial system because when the legislature was failing to account or to hold political leaders like the previous president to account, they were able to are raised with all creation and shows some degree of independence and of cause. when the executive itself was involved, they have shown an amazing level of independence of cause. we should not take it out that they still are calling for further transformation of the do show itself. because others are making claims that because it is not transformed, it tends to look into the public sector court option. but look the other way when you have multiple billions, such as the one of stone of weeds is
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a private corruption, which is the one including the construction companies that seem to assume some money through college and during the world cup. so that in itself is still an issue that is being raised, and at times it's been working weaponized and politicized. david, do you believe this case will bolster people's faith in the judicial system? i mean, will there be a sense that perhaps a corner has been turned here that this is maybe a big step forward? yeah, i think it will. i mean, it's not the judicial system, and the judiciary is reputation. that is, a state cabinet needs, bolstering its the prosecutorial authority, which was in the tory asli corrupted under the zuma regime. and that's why i think there's not likely to be any interference in this case because you know, truly the whole walk of the,
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of the. so mad ministration was they extend to which the independence of the have, been n.p.a. the national prosecuting authority was eliminated. and if it both is, if this case bolsters the credibility of anyone, it will be that of the national prosecuting authority. but what the national prosecuting authority has to show is not only independence in prosecuting this case, but also competence in prosecuting this case. and under soon that both their independence and their competency was massively eroded and they are the ones who truly stand to lose or gain reputation. by this case, not so much. the judiciary, some of the president around oppose a promise to tackle corruption. he has an anti-corruption agenda, has he been doing that? has he been following through on his promises and if so, has he been effective?
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well, i do think there were signs of frustration from seeing that the wheels were turning very slow and he seemed to have justified still of prostitutes in order to all of the investigations. and also delinquent is speaking with doing that, i mean of political deployments in some of these entities which are or is crucial in any successful, you know, crime intelligence, as well as the general administration of justice. david, let me ask you since he was elected, what kind of steps has president obama opposed? it taken to sideline supporters of former president zuma. well, he certainly, he certainly howard's own poff. you know, there are, you know, there are
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a range of policy measures that have been taken. you know, for example, the new, clear, the xoom is a desire to build a whole bunch of nuclear power plants in south africa has been taken off the agenda . and that has to be a very big payday for the zoom and the and the gupta's. but you know, in tackling corruption i think he's, he's parted company with zuma and he has his riled zoom that in appointing. a generally competent and august people to be there on the boards and in the executive suites of our state owned enterprises. to putting competent and independent people in charge of the prosecuting authority and most of the
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important policing agency, he set up a special unit of the national prosecuting authority who's a remit is, is focused on state capture cases emanating from the state capture area. the area of the xoom administration. so he's done, he's done a fair amount. you know, as i said, as i think i might have said earlier that he's been a far more impressive and resolute leader of the state. then he has been leader of, the a.n.c. and i think, you know, the simple reason for that is that i think the public supports him in great numbers, but in the, in the end see support it for him on the one hand and that magnus, surely. zuma faction, on the other hand, is very, very, equally divided. in fact, it might even, the small majority may even risk with zuma muggers. surely,
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david, you know, how worried are officials now in south africa? i mean, do you believe that we're going to be seeing more corruption cases being brought against more officials going forward? yeah, you know, you know, it, you know, if the mug shoot is in the faction they call, it's very easy, very early and succeed in doing what would be targeting a major opposition, namely the n.p.a. and the hawks who are the principal investigating body. then then we'll see, we'll see considerable conflict so much in august, president rama post said that a.n.c. officials must take leave from their positions if they are charged with corruption and that they must resign if they are convicted. has that policy been applied at
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all thus far? it has been not members who are in the us, but so far as a national level with roman and cases, it has never been up late. and it looks like now this even though we treat from it because they're saying that because of the legal challenges of police in some way it during that your original trial and that in itself we wouldn't expect these markets to lead the secretary general to step aside and years so it might say that you will not step on site at this particular moment. so this seem to be a retreat from that. except for those that have been exercised on more locals. it has applied to people somewhat sort of lower on the, on the totem pole,
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who have been removed or persuaded to step out. but it has not applied to people of any seniority whatsoever. there is that the moment a sitting a p.c. who was previously and assume that the minister of intelligence or state security has been charged with bribery. while he was a parliamentarian and very serious bribery. and he remains in parliament and he's not, he's not nearly as big a deal as surely, although quite, you know, quite high profile and powerful. and if he can't be, if he can't be removed from his position, i can't see how they get it due to run up to make sure they're all right. we've run out of times, we're going to have to leave it there. thanks so much to all our guests. david lewis and some of the other few caney. and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website,
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i wish that day could have gone on forever. but my past caught up with me and made us all pay the price of daisy and max on al-jazeera. to drive their industrial expansion and european powers colonised, huge areas of the wont, rich resources. so free labor and fast lands were exploited in the name of civilization and wealth. until the colonies decided that had enough in a new 3 part documentary series out as they are, expose the history suffering and legacy of france's imperial past. not in tears french to colonise ation. coming soon to one of the most wanted men on the planet masterminded a 4500000000 dollars fraud and want to put him in jail. but you cannot help being in the oppressed ages 0 reveals never before heard recordings implicating
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