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will india's protesting farmers forced the prime minister into a climb down to render. a modi is resisting calls to repeal farming reform laws. they fear they'll be left at the mercy of big corporations. what are the political risks for modi? this is inside story. hello, welcome to the program, byrne, it's more than 60 percent of india's population rely on agriculture for a living. but farmers who've long been a crucial voting bloc often complain of being ignored. and now they're worried they

could be exploited by agriculture reforms passed in september. the laws seek to loosen rules around the sale, pricing and storage of farm produce. the new free market system means they'll lose government back to minimum price guarantees. they've tried to march on the capital, new delhi, but have been stopped by police using tear gas and batons. now they're blocking main roads. plan to stay until demands are met. a lot of us have doubled that. we have enough facilities to cook and eat and arrange for our stay. we only want the last to be rolled back and to go back home happy. if it's not done, the moon will continue to protest, be it for 6 months or a year. the guide again lead the way. we always suspected the government's intention and always will because the government has become a slave of the corporations. they want to turn us into their slaves as well. well, we want to government, which is elected by the people and talks about the people. the indian government

says the reforms and necessary to boost production and bring in much needed private investment. prime minister, narendra modi has tried to assure farmers, the laws won't tom, their businesses. there's a lot of your book i knocked out, but i want to tell the citizens and farmers from the banks of the river ganges and the holy city of out an aussie that we are working with intentions, which a pure is the water of the river ganges and without any purpose of betrayal, most of the farmers come from the states of punjab and haryana that are known as india's grain baskets. many have camped out at the sink who border elizabeth around him has been to one of the protests in the capital new delhi. well, despite farm union leaders attending talks with the government, tens of thousands of promise remain on to keep highways blocking the road into the capitol region of delhi. now, fun union leaders have told us that they're attending the talks, but they're not hopeful of a breakthrough. and that's because of prime minister narendra modi's comments that

these laws are good for farmers that they're in the interest of farmers and fama, say that that's what happened last time in the last round of talks in november, that the government didn't listen, that they want to write guarantees around a minimum price for they produce and to, nor that is why they're protesting now, and that's why they'll say they'll continue to do so until the government repeals these laws. meanwhile, the pharmacy have had some international support. the 1st international comments about what's happening here from canadian prime minister justin trudeau, who said that canada will always stand by the rights of people to peacefully protest to protest peacefully. that's perhaps not surprising. given canada has such a large population. more than half a 1000000 people in canada are off panjabi descent. many of these traumas are from punjab. all those comments weren't well received here in india with the ministry of external affairs, calling them, calling them ill informed and saying that canada shouldn't be making comments about

internal affairs about the internal affairs of a democracy. the legislation changes the way farmers do business. currently, farmers, a guaranteed a minimum price for their produce at wholesale markets. the new law allows them to sell direct to anyone. famous for big corporations could force prices down. the law also allows private buyers to hoard essential commodities for future sales. and farmers will be able to enter into direct contracts with private companies. let's bring in our guests in new delhi. we have deeper senhor assistant professor of economics at university in delhi. joining us from oxford is nikita sued associate professor of development studies at oxford department international development. and pandey is an agriculture policy specialist and the former director of the institute for social and economic change. and he joins us from bangalore and

welcome to you all our us are. i'll start with you. if i may just give a quick, brief rundown of what the main, the most significant reforms, the new laws will bring about. i would the new laws, there are 3 laws. yes, one goes with the our commerce and the it's called farmers' produce trade and commerce act. now this comes under the constitution's concordant list park occurred and there are 6 or 7 points which are covered in this law. interstate, and interstate trading are produced is free, is allowed part of me did without any kind of cess duties, etc. yes. electronic trading is permitted. trade on earth must trade a bit up band card. bank card is

a personal accounting number. electronic registration are traitors is essential if we're told are terrified of getting into bed meant not to be. libyan creates no market fees, price information system should be in place and a dispute resolution is in place. this is the 1st act. the 2nd act is far most important under protection agreement act. this is price as surance and farm services. bill. farmers and a sponsor may enter. this is a contract. they can enter into an agreement with the fixed price, with quality grade standards, etc. then the response of douglas $1.00 serving is to pick the product at the pre-decided price and pay $2.00 thirds of the amount immediately. yes, the sponsor prepared from act quieting. this is the most important act. quiting only a few needs are marked gauge of the land of the farmer,

and this is in that insurance to be provided and elaborate. procedure is set on the 3rd one. then the 3rd on these essential commodities act allows the government to regulate the supply of certain food items. and the stock limit may be imposed on agriculture for use only if there is a steep price rise. and there are triggers about the steep price rise. that is 100 percent in case, appreciable if the price rises more than $100.00 will have doubled prize a car 50 percent in case of nonperishable. this is basically the clear act or it ok . thank you very much. deeper. just why, of many farmers so nervous of what are essentially made free market reforms of farming in india? because i think because of that, so broadly, if we look at these 3 acts,

what they do is that they beating lived because of the fact that the country and the state, it's not in which the family meanly protesting door states in which the market regulation this quite a bad public procurement by the state happens from a large number of families they get to get into right. and these markets of looking pretty efficiently and they also provide tax revenues to the federal government locally. and so this is something that has without much discussion something that should actually all is under the plough of you all of the federal government, not the central government, but the state government. and i did trying, then it's very difficult to put everybody across the country that suddenly think that such major things are being done that don't begin the families into is based. i'm going to live the last, you know, all yellows that have been a huge protests across the country. in fact,

asking for legislations which would increase that if they should reach one, getting 3 at a minimum price. but this is completely against what the promise have been demanding quote over the last little yes. and it was something that this is instilling a spirit in promise that the existing system will change in the way families as individuals would have to deal with a lot. what parents bed they had bought, gaining, piled up, used to be much, no kids or i read that a quarter of india's farm produce is lost to wastage. surely that suggests some sort of reform is needed. that's absolutely right. and also stenson being one. and, you know, see that this government is trying to respond to a crisis in agriculture and you have touched on one of the issues of waste and, but there are many others of gravel nation of access to credit and be quids. and that you're not, these 3 laws are being brought in to make dishes for hamas better. in fact,

that's what the government wants us to believe. however, why we have to admit that that is a crisis. expectant incestuous sex because a farmer as went, you know, just last year in 2019. well looked and housing farmers committed suicide in india . these at the not necessarily like your previous because that's not going to make conditions better for farmers. they're going to liberalise and didn't you get markets? where is what is really needed is false promise to have better access to credit. did it get a nation crisis will send a sharp crisis like that for that produce? and these acts to none of that are us. there is no major economy in the world. that leaves farmers completely the mercy of free markets. quite like this does the e.u., $34.00 and a half percent of these budget goes on farming and fishing subsidies,

u.s. subsidies for custody 37200000000 dollars. this year. your throwing the indian pharmacy, the wolves, are they with this legislation? right. i bet are quite a few misunderstandings, not only among the promise but also among academicians. just now the other speaker said that the agriculture policy in the stateliest, yes, group, that agriculture falls as entry portrayed under the state list. that includes agriculture, which means production, agriculture, education, protection from person. this is us and it is very absolutely clearly written for us . in the union list, under the trade and commerce interstate trade is listed and also in $333.00, which came in the concurrent list, inserted with the 3rd amendment. in $150.00 pull,

it specifies trade and commerce. in war 2 stops, enable our oil fields, cartons, and other crops. now the farmers are told, and in fact a lot of our commissions say that agriculture falls in the stateliest true, but then it's only for that purpose. 2nd thing is as far as farmer suicides are concerned, there is a very, very clear, logical build up far more suicide. and my book is there by fish, publications. i'm speaking from sri which are taken of 30000 farmers in 2000 to yes, across 13 states in the country, which is impact of union support prices and the farm economy. now 100000 jobs in it and one job is very happy with their missed me or a simple reason that like any other government are going to as ation,

the government functionaries operating in the m.s.p. sector up and job are absolutely corrupt. and i'm saying it on the camera for the reason that when the artwork extent crinkles our wheat off the grade to be monday, immediately as soon as we can does the money being the great changes from c. to be around 2030 will be the difference from there from 10 quintals. by the time we can wait, it becomes 15, cringes. ok, which means a farmer gets a huge amount from the government. neither the major, neither, neither the parts annoys me. not a person who is grading or i'm losing in the think the state which is losing. ok. thank you. thank you very much. deeper. most indian farms a very small 1 point one hectare of motion of the farmers or even small. i'm not

one of the risks to them of the reforms. so i do need this drill that if you look at the found most of what protesting a lot section of them are larger families. because like you said, 80 plus indulging in families are what we would call it small and marginal. and so they do not benefit from the repeal meant by the state very much. they don't get the short answers. however, then the market either delayed it, then if they don't mean not good things also that we lose out if it regulated markets learnt to many more price signaling. for instance, as $1.00 of those bad, it kind of sets lower the price of areas commodities that even the government does not reach. and the fed, the floor for the price of either issue which i was saying. and yet again, it's the bill with this whole issue will probably and i loudly in the private sector today,

directly with what that means is that now you can have big corporate interests. that icky dealing with problems without any regulation, without any delay or mature, until having the promise in place of the families, especially because they have so small on their interest can be protected or leave and they look at the pool, all of it as something of a flight home, that is why i think it's so that is in fact the biggest threat these smaller families would be left would be a great big companies. and obviously they would lose leverage them in the market and prices. they would not get short prices. and i guess bangor not because it isn't, it is a problem becoming more expensive, but prices i'm going to show you. and even though these that you talked about earlier, is all of sudden the bull with the lads will back because really depressed. and that's the markets and so on or so, i just want to say that i'm not saying that people can get does not need want. but

going to want that. and neither does, in fact, more investment and more regulation, rather than blowing in the other that nikita how is the, how all these small scale farmers going to be able to deal directly with major businesses. that surely the scales are already weighted against them off. yes, absolutely, and that's why they're protesting. i think the political actors are being very unfair and not getting the pulse of the problem. going to see it that these actually end bowering acts and the farmers don't understand what's going on to farmers at the ones who actually facing the conditions that your previous speakers are talking about. and that is like, they're protesting why we might be seeing larger farmers on the street. they are also seeing organizations of need and smaller farmers who are protesting and trying to get their voice plugged in. this is not new. they have this protest have been on

in many parts of locked in difficult when the victory mines and the government will do where to hear what these farmers are seeing. instead of trying to drag this legislation down and duties towards just because they have a majority and they also want to do ask you there are 77 and a half 1000, these regulated agricultural markets. mandy's in india, are they? but we're sort of a role. did they play in communities where they are? well, you know, we have all nationalist government in power that's trying to turn last that what they're going to bring about is one market for one kind of 3. but we have to understand the sort of landscape in next year's mondays exist, which are basically, you know, marketing, produce marketing agencies. it is not just that monday, you stumble all over the farm produce that doesn't leave even today in more

students and allow people to sell at their farm door rather than thinking that produce to amend the. but like i was saying that my over the years and the minimum support price, that doesn't really look for some commodities in these mondays, i don't have a signal effect. so all of the other goods that have been sold even at the farm go all and it does this sort of price that will be meek and therefore the signal being sent even to those not sending in my district. it will have an adverse effect on plant prices and that's why big and small farmers are protesting mom and an r us. before you address the comments of, of our colleagues, can i try again to get you to specifically address the issue of farming subsidies. they're essential in europe, they're essential in the u.s. . if you take them away from indian farmers, half the population risks, it's jobs. is there enough support for these farmers with these new laws?

one thing is nor where in their long it has been stated that m.s.p. is going to close to normal. the 2nd thing is, as far as contract farming is concerned, and i don't know if you're able to go see this book. ok, so what this is on contract farming and density farms? yes it's subtitle is entangled without no contract. farming came in with their 2 coggan clean marvell a p.m.c. act. and guess what? opium to act had 3 players. in fact, get told that here on the contract, carving makes it come for the 34 d. contractor in wall garment in the contract and garment actually words are a strange latest. forgive me for interrupting you because we have very, very, very tight for time. but can i just specifically ask,

is there enough to ensure with the new laws that these farmers will be financially compensated very quickly? if you can see these laws are not part of financial compensation? if somebody is thinking of that, not financial compensation goes through their misspeak. 2nd thing is that if we believe and that's what many people believe that it b, m, c, our market yards are properly functioning. no, there are strong cartels and i had done it on an onion, the cartel to begin from where it p.m.c. killed the other money be a lot of money. these cartels decide the prices. and these prizes are decided by even the signals in the air. and i have gone into day p.m.c. 2 instances where the hurricane are under farmers will come back to normal. thank you very much. deep, deeper. he's talking there about the, about the cartels currently setting the prices. there is some sort of reform needed,

isn't there? is this the way to bring it about? absolutely bonkers. not saying that the b m. c is the way they have cut in people actually functioning politically or that they're very democratic that i believe that issues of that option and so on. but that it's long then is not to get rid of the of the emcees. in fact that at some states in the country like it or rehired rich, it will ever be a, b, m, c, a. what about 10 years back and there you'll find that the markets have even learned that the families have no access. they need not get out because of them not having the monday still there is no need for reform. but that if mom is not $100.00, does not live with any kind of regulation. that would be throwing the baby out with the black water. what we need is better to give a shit and more support. also look from the importance. bella's, the site is not the one that the middle m.b.a. let live once off. and i actually in the absence of access the formal credit to the

promise. and i are also very important for some great big. i don't know what influence of like they were in the promise of what was going on in the market that is so demented. what that has been that is not being used, the best is still around that. it's just completely different. in the case of this evidence in europe, the big corporations have a significant effect on the pricing of agricultural product products. for example, milk is often supply supplied at less than cost. price of the protections as india learned from their protections here for the absolutely unlocked. and that is why the farmers out why did it is true that the current laws do not do only that minerals authorized and many come on to do this. but there is a system acting meek, a new, all good name, fall off the farm once and lease being given to lauch agricultural provisions. and there are very few seed gods that yes,

being big into current legislation, these t.v. laws, but others that we can talk about the way the flom wasn't just being able to follow us. that is not the case. it's the corporations that are being pushed for a loophole. and even if you see the federal government using that didn't list of the constitution publishing's. will this legislation be a doing that because they are allowed to do that for a motion? marketing like food, that is aggregate is good subject to the government, the central government to see this as well. back to our agricultural marketing. that is, the farmers are fighting it because they're seen, it doesn't matter. o. identity and likely old and they're powerful. so that is that difference in how these, this issue is being seen by the central government as cong must, and liberalization, and by the farmers as their own, i get to be like, knew what he's doing and you know who they are talking,

i don't need different levels, you know, folks, unfortunately, time is against other more out of time. thank you to all our guests to deepa sinha to nikita saud and pandey. and thank you too for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, al-jazeera dot com for more debate. go to our facebook page, facebook dot com, forward slash a.j. inside story. we've also join the conversation on twitter. we are a.j. inside story and i am just their opponent for me, but it's my whole team here. pakistan's

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