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tv   Inside Story  Al Jazeera  December 5, 2020 8:30pm-9:01pm +03

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a. asteroids and and scientists will be studying that and in much greater detail and you can see mission control there just breaking up will be bringing you much more on that everyone at the very thrilled about that in the coming news outlets or do you stay with us here on al-jazeera. al-jazeera and these are the headlines covered 19 vaccinations are underway in russia despite questions about safety teachers doctors and social workers will be the 1st in line to get that domestically produced sputnik vaccine alexandra godfather has more from moscow. fall in front of me could be kind to me is one of the vaccinations that opened today there is in total 70. of all schools started working. receiving patients who had previously scheduled they are born
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before the nation we're talking about people who work in health care system education or in social security system and they have to be younger 60 and they have to be basically healthy so all suffering from no serious chronic all diseases now a wrong supreme national security council has approved a motion to stop inspections by the u.n. nuclear watchdog 4 and to increase its enrichment of uranium the plan is expected to be in place in 2 months time after it's signed into law by president hassan rouhani u.k. prime minister johnson is set to speak to the head of the european union to try to break the impasse on a trade deal british and his paws talks on friday after failing to find a compromise on a series of sticking points both sides only have until the end of this year to agree a new trade deal when the pre-breakfast agreement will expire. police in the french
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capital have 5 to gas a protest as cars that have been set alight public areas damaged thousands are demonstrating against a proposed security they say will protect police offices of this week the government said it would be right part of the bill that would ban publishing photos of. saudi arabia's foreign minister says its ally is involved in and praising the blockade against are on board to find a resolution to the gulf crisis the emir of kuwait said he was pleased with how the talks have been progressing and that sentiment has been echoed by the catcher a foreign minister in saudi arabia bahrain the u.a.e. and egypt and post a land sea and air blockade of cats in june 27th. well those are the headlines i'll have much more news for you here on al-jazeera and the news out after inside story stay with us.
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on the scrutiny once again like heat is a delightful books a racist symbol for all those in a year of black lives to protest is it time for this divisive figure this is inside story. hello welcome to the program on the wrong call and many children in the netherlands have grown up with the image of black peets helpless as that necklace there require lots of signs of clothes books like pete is highly controversial. that's because the figure is usually a white person wearing black face makeup with exaggerated lips and an afro wig the
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tradition dates back to the 19th century around the time of the global slave trade but people say the character is racist and has no place in modern society some cities have replaced black pete with a compromise figure a cold chimney piece his face is covered in soot instead. and need new foundation it's no longer appropriate to be completely covered with black makeup so we're using it and this is just because we're going through the chimney and you're not this year are you certain you are need to. know i'm working from home. my home how you want to adapt in order to make it fun for everybody and keep everybody happy they control the sea intensified earlier this year when black lives matter protests began in the netherlands. and black pete demonstrates his often face supporters of the far right survey suggest a majority of dutch people want to keep the character the public opinion is
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shifting some libraries recently removed children's books that feature black pete prime minister who wants defended the tradition now says he's changing his attitudes as well. mark always work to beat the moment i met little children with dark skin who told me they felt incredibly discriminated against because black pete is black that's the last thing you want at a sink nicholas party but on the other hand if the government were to decree that black pete is no longer allowed then a lot of people who love the tradition will react the tradition is changing over time in a few years time there will be hardly any black people expect. let's introduce our guests michel s.a.'s an activist at the anti black people movement in kinshasa tracy by tennessee a political scientist and activist focusing on gender and race and in london patrick vernon a cultural historian all morcombe to you all i want to begin in amsterdam with that
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michel as say as michel this character black pete is effectively the helper of st nicholas he arrives some point in the 19th century as a helper to saint nicholas into the netherlands at the same time there's a global slave trade happening these are all caricature of what some white people thought a black person might look like but then a grotesque caricature i'm sure but this is not just about a cute christmas tradition this is almost celebrating slavery isn't it. it is it is . the tradition was invented in 850. guarantee in our guy for around black history the black are graphs and here you can see. one of the 1st book in which it was introduced and it was introduced 13 years before the abolishment of slavery so that was
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a time in which people in europe in the netherlands look at black people as inferior beings so on that context this characterised created and that's why we protest against it but it's not just about that anymore about the fact that the character was created from one space and time over the years it's changed into a christmas tradition many people in the netherlands have grown up with this they don't see anything wrong with it so why is it now causing such controversy yeah absolutely as you said when this book was introduced it became very popular and it became the most popular tradition in the country more popular than christmas. and what you've seen the dutch context is that people believe that it's an innocent tradition because a lot of people believe that there is no racist racism in the netherlands it's innocent country racism happens in the us in south africa but not in so that makes
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it difficult to address the on the lying legacy of slavery and colonialism however by criticizing the tradition we've been able to open up with the bad about both the tradition and the underlying issue of institutional racism but the prime minister is saying that actually you're moving politicking too fast you want to ban this tradition he says give it a few years the tradition will die naturally. yeah but he's been he's been saying that for a long time and people have been criticizing this tradition since the 1930 s. on asking the question like how long more should we wait how much longer should we wait i think. when we talk about human rights when we talk about racism we shouldn't phase it out we should completely end it immediately so everybody can you know live in a respectable and way and in the way that you know people are treated equally
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let's bring in patrick vernon had in london patrick when you and i were growing up in the u.k. there was a very famous figure who's actually called the goalie what he was a caricature of a black person that was used for commercial marketing practices on a brand of gems eventually that figure did go away when you and i became older and we started questioning it and there was a movement to try to get rid of that is it the same in the netherlands or does this is this much more cynical much more openly racist. it's very similar to because i mean you know let's face it one of the impacts alexis of enslavement in terms of trance and its life trade was a day in the human isolation of people of african heritage whether in netherlands in the u.k. in the caribbean in north america south america. and so there's been a long tradition of of of using. images of gollywogs using characters
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like minstrels using white people. policies tend to be black that was very popular also in britain we had a well known t.v. sit t.v. show on the b.b.c. called the black white minstrel show and that was primetime t.v. in the seventy's and also you have morris dancers in cold war who also locked in a big campaigns about that i still say it's a basic basic principle the 1st principle is lives do not matter it's easy to ridicule to make characters of black people and if you were to apply that to other communities people wouldn't tolerate that really recognize and semitism. in europe we recognize that islamophobia but we do not recognize the blackness or afro phobia and i think it's important that we do something sounds. tracy very tense here in
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kinshasa i saw you nodding your head there when you came to the idea that we do not recognize the idea of this you know blackness of people that we we actually do character caricature on this much more than say and the seventy's a more islamophobia for example that examples that were brought up is that accurate so you think. well i think it's accurate especially one people of african descent black people in belgium are in that event trying to talk about black feet and said it's racism a lot of people will say well what are these people saying they come here in their countries and they want to change a technician that's actually pointing out that people don't see us as belgian are native citizens of the net and then it's and so yes of course it's an issue we don't recognize the pain of black people that people african descent but i've seen in the past years there has been some effort especially on iraq and a level to recognize these things by writing some resolution and other political
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statements so i think we are still not there where people recognize the being polite struggle and the structural reasons that people and people of african descent in all you are face but step by step we're moving to the right direction let's assess and where you are right now when you talk to people about black paint and you say to them look i think i don't know where you are on race and i know you that well but let me just explain to you that the caricatural is racist to me to get a welcome reception. the people listen i have to say i have to send the city of mc numbers mean some progressive change but then as you know. that has been developed through struggle over the past 5 to 10 years there's been a lot of activism and there was a lot of recess since but in terms of them i'd say there's a level of respect going on the saying however outside of the big cities like him said rather nam
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a few weeks ago for example in the south of the netherlands there was a small protest and peaceful protesters against racism or embers by a few 100 will against an extreme right people so you see this gap between the city and the rest of the country so there's still a lot of work to do to be done but the work to be done needs to take into account tradition. michel any to take into account that there is this tradition that has been going on since the 19th century and actually you know or maybe you are just spoiling christmas and all spoiling a festivity by this is what i mean the thing about traditions is that all traditions change culture trenches i mean it was a tradition that women were not allowed to fold it was also traditions and slave people. their anti-semitic traditions which have been abolished shown i think people should move forward and acknowledge that everything changes throughout time
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and tracy bebo tense here is this the right fight to pick when you have shrunk sheryl systemic racism where you have violence where you have people who are denied housing because of the color of their skin who are denied jobs because of the color of their skin is a christmas character a festive character really the fight we should be picking. first of all i think that black people can choose which fight they can pick no one has to tell so either black people which i think and big 2nd of all people need to understand that living in whites in countries like belgium are not and they'll never know and face the racism is a traumatic experience so yes it's a right to fight a bit because still a lot of kids have to be called black beats and when you know that everything that is black that are blackness often east associated with negative stereotypes black
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beat is one of them so it's a fight in a bigger fight in a fight against structural racism in a fight against oppression systematic oppression of black people but it's an important fight black people should feel free to celebrate the parties that they want and also they don't children especially children because at the end of the day it's the children part if we change black beats the children will not hear it's most of the time the adults because the problem but children will be all children will be very happy if the stereotype surrounded that be changed and it's a more friendly or character for everyone given in london do you think this is the right side to pick. agree with. the previous speaker you know people are fighting different levels some people are fighting on key issues round a stop and search and deaths in custody and some people fight around better mental
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health care provision some people are fighting around housing some people fart around immigration and migration policy the interesting thing about the whole store front caricature it's a national narrative so when people talk about tradition and steeped in the story corps structural racism is part of the tradition so you might challenge stop and search but the police believe that's how it's like pete's is acceptable therefore they will they will treat with disrespect you from they arrest them or when you are dealing with state officials they still look at you or that therefore i don't respect you it's very clear in terms united nations the corrections and charters of last year's the people of african descent have been traumatized through the history of slavery on modern day racism and part of the process is the
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colonizing traditions which reinforce our stereotypes so it's black petes or minstrels or any film that gives a negative connotation has to be acceptable this has not be tolerated and the and we need to get with this if you want server in just a just an inclusive society missler say is one of the things that's really changed over the last year or so is the black live matters movement and it has introduced a consciousness good not just in europe globally as well has it had an impact on you'll need mint on your on people understanding. yes absolutely as i said before in text of the boston years. movement against what the. it was and the form. of the move and it grew from 10 people to about a 1000 last year however this summer more than 50000 people showed up on the street
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so that quite a large input. so we've been up in fired by the prime minister by the mayors of em's of them right there and several institutions to think about policy proposals to combat racism and to add to the other speakers i don't think you have to choose between one or the other in the dust context hunting because for belgium as well. the fight against black bead opens up space for a broader debate about other issues and examples of racism such as racial profiling labor market discrimination. discrimination in education etc etc so it all. adds to the broader movement of progressive change logic on and london i just want to talk to you about how you change things legislatively through law through law
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making in the u.k. we have the rights relations act it's not perfect but a lot of people have suggested that it has changed things for the better for colored communities in the u.k. do you think that's true do you think it is law making or is a culture that needs to change. well when you support cult communities often a squad offensive one really is the top book and 0 is saying. say that and britain has been nearly 50 years of campaigning for race culture let's close in the 1st piece out was in 1965 which was to stop discrimination people discriminates in and get an accommodation and then the men did stop discrimination people didn't image 11 markets and then it was a focus on structural racism in terms of government departments and local farted in other agencies and private businesses discriminates and so over the long history and tradition in the u.k. but those only those changes how i've only come about through lobbying and campaign
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see need to lobby and the activists work with lawmakers and the politicians and concerned individuals as well i think we've lost much so just a touch not very briefly it's a must in parts of britain so much so that a number of museums and institutions have now removed statues celebrating who people who have benefited from the slave trade and this loan led to a national debate in britain what is britain and what history of the history of history should we condone all to be examined at least so i think it's been an interesting but health the conversation that we have been we should have a should have a very long time ago this week on this case let's say it's in the netherlands some schools of voluntarily removing images of black pete some television news organization television entertainment shows have already stopped using him but there's no legislative constitutional law making going on to try and stop this from
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happening is that part of your strategy is all to get laws changed. yes absolutely since the beginning has been one of our goals and missions to. l.r.b. towers politicians more locally and actually to the fella pledges lation to. you know get rid of all kinds of racial stereotypes especially some of the big black beat of course however unfortunately politicians have been you're not taking responsibility the prime minister for example has repeatedly said that it's not his responsibility to should be the responsibility of society and yeah that's a very disappointing decision but the positive thing indeed is that we do see a lot of change happening in schools in cultural institutions and companies so.
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we do see some progression but on a political level unfortunately. those who have the authority have not taken their responsibility tracy i'm just going to come here in a 2nd but i do want to pick up on something mitchell just said in effect then what is more important to you what is more important here is it. cultural change then or is it legal change. well i think both are very important and i think with all that that is matter movement we have to understand that fighting racism is not a trend we leave for people who live in western society they face reeses every day that's the 1st thing the 2nd thing i think the change of mentality is the most important thing so we can have laws we can change those we can make resolutions but if people don't change the act differently against people of color against that
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people will still have reason therefore it is still important to go in dialogues talk with people and yet like teach them about about history teach them about racism and teach them about the impact of racism on black people because a lot of people don't understand that facing racism is a traumatic experience i'm seeing that scene for instance much less a asked one of the bigger problems you've got when it comes to changing laws we need trust want to tell you when you're talking about politicians is actually in europe there is this rise of the far right there are politicians who may not be far right but i certainly listening to their constituencies and suggesting that actually if we do something about black paint we are going to anger a number of our constituents who don't see this as being rice and so you have a political problem here as well don absolutely absolutely and and there is the main reason why politicians have not taken responsibility again have to refer to the prime minister of the quote unquote liberal party.
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he has acknowledged especially after black president of rising of the some of that indeed elected me such a change however because he knows that a large part of his political base is quite conservative he is afraid to take the steps to actually you know be full of legislation to abolish it so you know that that's a big generous. part of that and london. is that anyway this becoming a much more international movement of people in the u.k. and america. interested in this idea of black pete as a cultural stereotype the needs to go or is this very much focused on the netherlands you think it's not really a global issue. it's a global issue because you are we have our criminal black petes so if the black petes is steeped obviously in the history of netherlands but in britain we have our
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similar petes in terms of racial stereotype and negativity there are some let's america as well but it's the same issue the same issue is a process of dehumanised that was seen as objects or the other we're not we're not respected and valued as human beings and therefore it becomes fair game to belittle us and to define it and to hide behind impose commas traditions to justify our racist. propaganda as well and actually if we want to change people's hearts and minds it does require have the star look in the conversation and it's very sad to hear that and the loons the politicians don't want to address this issue because they're worried about the voter base and people staying in power but if we can educate a new generation of people from holland unembarrassed belgium that. peter's racist piece is actually. the humanizes the black experience and up to more importantly it
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justifies even to certain extent your white privilege i think that would disappear when it happened next generation was sometimes to come painting as well we have the same issues in britain. and even though we've got probably the best let's listen in europe as we leave you are possibly in the few days or and the year. or the best expression around fighting discrimination there is still a massive level of discrimination and there are still stereotypes of people patrick at heart of the stories about your show that i do want to bring in our running at a time tracy but hans you're one of the questions i always wonder about is does has black heat had an impact in kinshasa in regards of people you speak to as i think they're aware of is it something that they know that. well if you know where there are so many issues the end of black beads high not the least of their issues but
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when you end up with congolese people about that they don't understand and of course the also see this reeses i'm. even old colonial that white belgian that need to go out for a while and then go back to belgium and see black beating that's weird and wrong so yes it's not the main issue but talking about colonization of the colonization is not only a western subject it's also an african subject and indeed the company excepted. i want to thank all our guests mention the sas tracy letts hands here and patrick vernon and i want to thank you too as well for watching now you can see the program again any time by this thing our web site out is there a dot com and for the discussion go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. the inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a.j. inside story from me among town and the whole team here in town i think.
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a live feed into storytelling around the biggest. you should do with. the. 0. how again i missed this is the news hour live from our headquarters here in doha coming up in the next 60 minutes the w.h.o. says hundreds of millions of covered 1000 vaccines it will be available globally next year as russia starts massa backs a nation's despite safety concerns iran takes another step towards banning the u.n. nuclear watchdog from unscheduled inspections of its sites. with a deadline looming boris johnson and the head of the european.

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