nicholas hawk al jazeera park in senegal. and in the last of our reports in this series we'll take you to peru where an ancient city is under threat from squatters you can see that throughout the day here on al-jazeera from 10 hours g.m.t. on saturday. it is good to have you with us hello adrian finnegan here in doha the headlines on al-jazeera the u.s. food and drug administration is expected to approve a 2nd corona virus vaccine for emergency use imminently makers of the madonna vaccine a waiting for the green light to dispense nearly $6000000.00 doses nationwide u.s. vice president mike pence was an occupation with the fires of b u n tech vaccine in a televised event president elect joe biden will do the same on monday and the nation's top infectious diseases experts expressed optimism that the vaccine could

help return life to normal within months the sweetness is the light at the end of the tunnel which i can tell you as we get into january february march and april that light is going to get brighter and brighter and the bitterness is going to be replaced by the sweetness and we all hope and i think this is doable that by the time we get to several months into this year we will have enough people protected that we can start thinking seriously about the return to normality a week after they were kidnapped from a school in nigeria more than 300 students are now being reunited with their families parents amid all the state of kut ciena rejoiced as they saw their songs for the 1st time since they were taken 344 boys were kidnapped from their school last friday by armed men on motorbikes. if he appears government is offering a reward for information that could help to locate leaders of the tea gray regions

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the u.s. government is under unprecedented cyber attack top department say they've been hacked russia denies it's behind the campaign but what does it mean for america's national security and how will washington respond this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. u.s. government agencies are rushing to tighten their computer security after they've been hit by a hacking operation described as the worst in american history more than 40 organizations have been targeted including the u.s.

energy defense state and homeland security departments software giant microsoft also confirmed it's been affected by the ongoing cyber attack the hacking operation was uncovered last week but investigators believe it's been going on for months u.s. officials suspect it's carried out by russian hackers and warned of the grave risk it poses to government and private networks the cyber security agency says it will be hard to undo the damage done to what it describes as the critical infrastructure of federal departments president donald trump is so far remained silent on the matter while president elect joe biden vowed to deal with the breach as soon as he takes office next month. you know russia has rejected accusations that it's behind the cyber attack with kremlin spokesman dmitri peskov warning americans not to unfound lee blame the russians for everything during his annual news conference on thursday president vladimir putin did not elaborate on the recent hack but reiterated russia never interfered with u.s. internal affairs. the russian hackers did not help get the

incumbent president elected and did not interfere into the internal affairs of this great power these are all hoaxes and pre-tape says to worsen the relations between russia and the united states in recent years the united states has repeatedly accused russian intelligence of launching cyber attacks on international institutions an investigation during the 1990 s. pointed the finger at moscow for hacking several government agencies including nasa and the pentagon for 3 years dubbed the moonlight maze attack officials say the data breach was so enormous that if all the stolen documents were piled up it would be 3 times the height of the washington monument between 20152016 both the cia and f.b.i. say russian hackers penetrated democratic party computers and gained access to personal e-mails in a bid to help donald trump defeat hillary clinton in the election since then russia has also been accused of disrupting elections in other countries including finland germany and the u.k.

the kremlin dismisses the allegations calling them groundless and a witch hunt. all right for more on this i'm joined by our guests in washington d.c. jody westby chief executive of global cyber risk and chair of the american bar association privacy and computer crime committee in moscow flat in their something called the specialist on russian foreign affairs and political analyst at the russian academy of sciences and in new york karen greenberg director at the center on national security at fordham university school of law she's also host of the vital interest podcast jody let me start with you today how grave a threat is this attack to the united states federal government and how exactly was it accomplished i think that threat is the greatest we've seen so far so it's it's at the highest level the attack was a compilation by compromising the software signature process or solar winds

there ryan software and malware was sent out through a riot through solar winds as a software update it went to about 800000 government and public sector in the bees and private sector companies so about 800000 organizations globally could have downloaded this mouse where in the software update karen how is this attack different from previous hacks. yeah i think it's. going to just underscore what jodi just said the scope is incredibly that it effects not just agencies across the government in a way we haven't seen before but also it has you know affected the private sector as well and let me just underscore something else is we actually don't know how that this is yet this is just the beginning of the forensic investigation of this

so it's that it's go and it's direct attack on government agencies it's as much different than anything we've seen before vladimir from your vantage point what's your response and what do you make of the accusations that russia was behind this attack. well actually you know this is nothing new in the sec is ations because as far as i'm concerned i remember that. almost 2 years ago from now the sec is ations appeared in the press and on the behalf of the united states russian hackers even not only cine tutorial russian for the russian but also somewhere in some exotic islands where hacking us a governmental institutions are going to zation i don't think that there is a special purpose for russian government to hack american government a computer systems even with the latest cutting edge and software and i

don't think that the sec is ations actually true because. this isn't me a politics actually this is a just to press on russia because russia actually is on the sanctions and this is really a process off of the new cold war when the 2 parties actually are accusing each other all in shooting into one bonds all the enjoying the affair so i don't think the sec is asian actually took out the last story shot a really taking place jodi in the past few years the u.s. government has spent tens of billions of dollars on cyber offensive abilities i mean it's astounding that this attack was able to go undetected as long as it as long as it did isn't. it's a very very sophisticated attack and so that certainly one of the reasons that it's

indicated as a nation state attack it was highly sophisticated once the malware into the system it set dormant for a couple of weeks it had the capabilities it was at the core access of the. operations because it was network monitoring software therefore it could turn off settings turn on settings create credential it could do a lot of think it was storing some of its act data some of its activities inside the actual software files so it was less likely to be detected so it operated in quite a high stealth mode and also in a way that was very difficult to detect and it will be difficult to eradicate carrying her jodi talked there about the type of malware that was used and how difficult it was to detect it's not just really about the malware at this point now is it it's also about back doors that have been placed in these systems by which

these hackers may still be able to continue to access these systems for who knows how long right. well that's right i mean even if they stop it they can detect now what do they do about what's already there and inside the system so that is incredibly concerning but you know for years and in particularly in the past couple of years cyber security experts inside and outside of government have been calling for a ramping up defensive strategy is precise and talking about the vulnerability of it large not having mechanisms in place reporting systems in place so this is this is a warning sign of just where our vulnerabilities are and what defenses we've let slide in in recent years so it's one thing trying to address this particular attack and it's and it's another thing thinking about how to prevent anything like this

happening in the near or partner vladimir what happens now going forward with the u.s. russian relationship you have a new administration coming in you have now these accusations that russia is behind this massive massive hack on the u.s. government and private enterprise in the u.s. what does it take things. well actually 1st of all let me ask my esteemed coal excess from the knighted states just one small question for what purpose for what purpose russian hackers or russian government need said to have been hacking the you were this computer assistance for the consecutive almost 2 years even more so what the what is the problem because at at the same time russia can accuse the united states off hacking the russian sensitive organizations and security agencies the computer system so what is that up

a softball that who actually that we know fall lisa arguments actually and the regarding regarding the future relations. from all the new administration of president elect that now he was confirmed as a as a president who won the elections mr giles of biden. i don't think that there will be much. change in the by later all relations. between the united states and the russian federation because. the nice thrust and the years so far the anymore city especially after the ukraine events have been doing their bad thing and these accusations of hacking at saks actually this is another story which actually made its contribution to that

was winning all them over all our relationship between the united states and america all. almost every day we heard here in moscow and in the indian national media that there is one story or you know this story in the united states which is certain so face that that russia is. that russia is behind this who actually that we know these we need good relations and president putin said that we need just to maintain normal. stable the walking relationship with united states especially within u.s. ministration president joseph biden so i don't think that there biden will actually . be 8 from these suckers ations. in the near future this is my point jody president trump has been silent on all this thus far and his silence about an

organized attack on the u.s. government this really is just the latest example of trump's reluctance to criticize russia isn't it i mean this is just at the end of the day going to raise more questions about president trump's deference to russia and to russian president putin doesn't it does russia has been emboldened during the 4 years of the trumpet ministration because quite frankly mr putin has played him very well and so while it has been able to take advantage of the u.s. during these 4 years i do think that will change with the by an administration and i think as karen said we don't know the extent of the attacks and more and more is uncovered there will certainly be more additional. thought within the diplomatic community about how to respond to this because it really is and has been an ongoing aggression from 201-415-2016 with the advanced persistent threat

group 28 and now group 29 that these people have been attacking the systems of the united states public and private sector for years and this is quite aggressive cyber activity that simply has to stop karen i saw you nodding along to some of what jody was saying so i want to see if you want to add to what what she was saying just then but i also want to ask you about president elect biden because he is now pledging to make cyber security a top priority for his incoming administration and he's also talked about you know how adversaries should know that they are going to incur substantial costs for attacks such as this going forward what kind of costs would would those be. yeah well that's why it's so such a precarious situation in terms of not just assign blame but understanding what the attack was you know we live in

a limbo between cyber tensions cyber conflict and cyber war and the question is if this is as vast as it was what kind of active aggression is this and therefore what kind of response will it take and this is what is facing biden in terms of what he's at the side to do now understand that under president obama there was a directive and a number of programs put out that talked about unity of government efforts to address cyber attacks and so want and i think some of that paradigmatic structure will be returned to by the bidens little things have changed in the interim but there will be a very i would expect a very natured response in trying not to escalate this further but making a very clear symbol this cannot go on again and there will be repercussions and so whether that's in the form of sanctions whether it's in the form of diplomatic.

arrangements whether it's in the form of something else we'll see but there are there's going to have to be responses and the question is how measured can that be vladimir there are those who are calling this attacked cyber conflict they're saying that it goes beyond just hacking what do you see this kind of attack that has happened is this a different type of warfare is this cyber conflict or is it just merely a hack. actually let me chong around this question a little bit from all the point of view. that we are actually saying here in russia that this cyber security is a field goal for. potential field of mutual cooperation between the united states and the russians for the ration in the near future because the spite the accusation soft russian hackers attacking the u.s.

sent it they say there might be they're actually taking place in the hacking at tax from radical islamists and the terrorist group inc so which is more serious actually for both countries and the whole congress on the wall but. answering directly to the point of your question i would like to say that this is a cyber calls like unfortunately no cyber security cooperation is on the taking now this is taking place now this is as cyber cold flicked not near a diplomatic cold like and the problem for us actually as the q great power so the wall is how to. overcome these difficult time when we are accusing each other of cyber attacking and we are in the middle of a cyber cold like and how to proceed to maintaining the relations of cyber security

on diplomatic front on political front in any other computer security cyber security in any other front in these this is the real to ask for future administration in the united states and for future. government in the russian federation jody is it more likely with the incoming biden administration that we would see a retaliation in cyberspace to this attack or would the response of the u.s. be more likely the imposition of sanctions or would it be a combination of both. i don't see as launching a cyber attack against russia in retaliation but i do see us perhaps ramping up the spying they providing greater leadership in a multilateral fora the united nations and and other organizations that we forget some paid him to finally start working on some norms and rules for how

countries will use the internet and communication networks so i see the response there could be sanctions that could be part of it but there will be i think a greater diplomatic response in this area than we've seen and it's certainly been lacking on the united states front this is our our weakness and what we should have been doing better i think both see that improved especially and looking at rules and norms in the united nations and trying to elevate conduct on cyber to an international level karen do you think that the u.s. government is so far playing down the severity of this attack. it depends on what you mean by the u.s. government there's so many different voices right now i think that yes the white house is playing it down i think every single day we got another agency that's been

compromised so we can assume that it's government wide particularly in the national security agency i think there's a sense that it's one reason to play it down is we actually don't know to what extent this was espionage to what extent this was stealing information to what extent is is we can read recruit some of the defenses that should have been in place so i think that to cause panic might not be the best idea and i do think that there has to be a sense of what happened before the administration either one is going to come out with any or good explanation or accusation or anything along those lines including a response flattery you said earlier that you believe that a lot of this is political spectacle and that it's being politicized why do you believe that. look what is going right now and why why wait a while you why it is going in the specially

a very acute right now because this is a december you know on the incoming us administration. and the set top it off all the hacking. allegedly on behalf of russians for the russian is very much ball to size d. costs because there is a strong pressure i truly believe that from certain the certain political and military suckle seen ited states on the new administration not to be a very mild with russia to press on russia to continue its pressure on russia in the future and the policy of more sanctions from the west than apartness off russian federation is just brewing that so i think that this is sexually the thing which ship proves that the very much. topic of hacking attacks politics sayst and this is near again

i'm just reiterating myself this is paula c. then the actual cyber cyber warfare or well. just not to. contradict into my p.d.f. statement site of a cold flick to but which is very much ship all to sites tony is there any indication out there that this could have been carried out by any country other than russia at this point in time. no at this point in time i think everyone's quite confident that forensic evidence is showing that that this was a i reckon nation state backed attack and it's from the same group actually this isn't new and this began with moonlight may's attacks in 1999 and there have been numerous attacks since then by those same kind of back russian intelligence back groups and so this is something that is not

a new occurrence but this is the most serious occurrence and certainly in light of what happened in 2015 forward that it escalated to a point that is simply an acceptable and has to be stopped karen in 2018 the white house eliminated the cyber security coordinator role steps like this that were taken by the white house is this one of the reasons that the u.s. is is in the state that is in right now they could be so vulnerable to an attack of this sort. it didn't help nor does it help that there has been such a sense of musical chairs inside many of the agencies and many of the agencies there on the national security for current we've had repeated director of national intelligence we've had turnover at the highest levels throughout the government we have the head of the cyber security and infrastructure security agency fired over

his disagreement with president trying over the election so in a way there's 2 things one too much reagan city 2 and related a lack of continuity in terms of message coming from the past to the present so this is another a problem i also want to say that and that on the point of timing this is not good timing and i don't think it's good timing for anybody's point of view in the united states this is a time of pandemic this is a time of transition so the idea that this is politically useful i'm not sure how that would would actually clay out in the in the political scene but i think this is more a sense of being distracted by other things in this country and other countries taking advantage of it all right we've run out of time so we're going to have to leave the conversation there thanks so much to all our guests jody westbury jody westby fought america sotnikova of and karen greenberg and thank you too for

watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story for me and the whole team here bye for now. thanks.

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al-jazeera. we're at. a very unforgiving here in doha the top stories on al-jazeera we begin with breaking news the u.s. food and drug administration has just approved a 2nd coronavirus vaccine for emergency use makers of the madonna vaccine of received the green light to dispense 26000000 doses nationwide let's go live now to our white house correspondent kimberly how could in washington how long before people start getting this job kimberly well the u.s. president tweeting congratulations the madeira no vaccine is now available it will be distributed almost immediately by monday at the latest.