he just is. full of kills a little girl was. a clinic and civilian people want them to see their justice how to limit love mohammed let me let me just let me just interrupt you and get back to one of the points you're making in a minute because i want to i want to ask manu to expand on one of the points you were making you know money mohammed was talking about the current situation i want to ask you where do things stand right now in mali i mean how much of mali remains outside of what people believe 3 civilian who. are under 50 even the most in credits in addition to the bullish on it why illusion needs to learn and they need justice. will accuse the little girl was. a clinic and civilian people want them to see their justice how did limitless mohammed let me let me just let me just interrupt you and get back to one of the points you're making in a minute because i want to i want to ask manu to expand on one of the points you

were making you know money mohammed was talking about the current situation i want to ask you where do things stand right now in mali i mean how much of mali remains outside of government control. so much of monti remains outside of the actual. monti and government control the vast majority of the some of the. there french forces on the right your. g. 5 forces control and some are big east and islamist and are the other groups the actual in mali and government east now quite limited in terms of it carried. the power that he called those in months. that doesn't mean all of it is an islamist groups. so the what is more important

is that all of this coming out or a very serious political crisis mali is going through which manifested in both economic and security challenges on the east the different demento political crisis that east issues so you could make allegations against whatever you want to make on and we've also heard from mali ends of french excesses on french forces excesses in martin you can make all of these allegations you could even sit on which i view no i prosecute individuals how however innocence so wonder mental problems that money is is going through so i think. i now see see tribunals i'd this time it's good it's going to haul

a few people to account may work but it is it's really and not truthful marni it's not a necessity it's what really marli needs right now is to know for people to sit down and think carefully about the political problems that mali asked and then try to resolve it and later on you could who are people accountable true are the means which could be criminal prosecutions but i destroy and i think we need to be focusing on what is more important for mali i'm for marlon's so then i want to ask you to step back from this for a 2nd a look at their all the peacekeepers because there are mali and who have been protesting the presence of u.n. peacekeepers believing that their presence really has done more harm than good in the over. well picture with the findings of these report becoming public now is that going to increase the level of anger from some quarters in mali towards u.n.

peacekeepers well i think. you know the points that have been made a really good ones that the people who are living through this crisis and experiencing. and have experienced the violence. this this is on the one hand is is possibly a tool to hold people accountable right but really they need a fundamental shift in the overall security situation and if. the peacekeepers on the ground people are calling for. for them their removal and think that in fact they're causing more harm than good i don't know i i i'm not sure that that connection will necessarily be made in the sense that 1st and foremost people are looking for greater security on the ground the un is a complex institution so when you have one inquiry coming from one aspect of the

un into the security council that's very far removed from the soldiers that are peacekeepers that are that are on the ground. so that sort of that sort of hard to know the other point that i'd like to say is that you know most mali and are not going to be in tune with what has just happened with this u.n. report in other words it's it's not widely decimated right it's disseminated it's not widely shared so so although you know there will be some people in bomb a co who are well aware and they may use this. to sort of. they may use this in their arguments about you know the u.n. peacekeepers it's time for them to move on because they've they've done nothing about these kinds of atrocities mohammed earlier you were speaking about the

security situation so i want to ask you to follow up on that a little bit right now how strong are armed groups in different parts of mali right now and are they actually strengthening their foothold. no one is who was the biggest but he's gone out on a group of my 1000000 gullible and would only be. gone in lower parts of the of a country that the last of the if you divide a country in the but the island of dog 2 cats solely in the sun done. and in the novice or the other bird influenced on doing their lawns i might add in administration limits those of arya and minor forces. and one in the lands i want to more insecure burst us so does the group.

were created to secure themselves then pollution and somewhat sought or have been created to to do to claim glenn for our political lower isn't but another loss of identity to ease and ended wouldn't you begin a big one an administration we saw who the force of the other. like i'm limited to. us and who before they have. the one count on the ability of the one who secured the population sort of opposition leader that drastic than. the money and not the station. and whatever it is the published didn't endorse. somebody secured by news none. since you are or are followed by

a buck and what. is it so i can security if you go and the target beyond. use it is issued by mail. so. it's systems in unity. and the. manu could you talk to our viewers about the humanitarian toll that the conflict has taken in mali i'm speaking about how much of an impact civilians have had because of conflict how dire the situation is for them so the humanitarian tool is massive it's huge if you ask because the different a mental problem. the mali in government in east new longer keep people off performing or often government in many parts of the country

imaan ian environment or climate has changed which is affecting people's livelihoods the way that we're always made an economy themselves then you have the violence from all sorts of groups as our mohammed was trying to explain and you know all that so many different groups that if we start naming them it may take like 2 or 3 minutes to do so. i'm divines is not decreasing some of this islamist groups are with the conventional forces like those old friends and they know how to run how it went when different the french approach it so even though you may take different make it a particular area for a particular period of time it doesn't necessarily mean that the groups have been defeated it is just a group of for doubt and to wait for

a suitable time to come up so as mohammad sick and on to parts of vermont he is covered by all of this group so they citizens or d. . civilians in this tots ah generally. a humanitarian problem because you need to find a way to support them on do you need to find a way to survive so monley on decide how the region is one of the biggest human each area in a crisis or not so that's how beach the the problem is and then suffering from quite a wide range of challenges and we need to keep and for sizing this point the political crisis that money is facing mali is a complex social and physical environment mali has a political system that was coupled together i think in the late fifty's it's.

honestly you use every right to your means to keep this just disparate groups together for a better known time and as we've seen through do coups and a bunch elections that this system is no go well for long one not even a monument as we saw with a demonic elite was keep count in in august this year it doesn't work for anyone so do fundamental issues where would the un france the united states and the powers in the world is how can you make this system work for different groups that are in march and it's time to to keep aside document is time to keep us on the cheeks and simple this is a 21st century mark that no longer works want to revenge and we need to think about

a series of reforms that will bring to get into different groups where the idea islamist web that. reassures me mano. i'm sorry interrupt we just how about a minute and a half left i just want to ask one final question of susanne i thank you for your answer there susanna just how fragile is the political situation right now in mali i mean since the coup a transitional government has been tasked with organizing elections where do things stand it's extremely fragile and as we've seen in mali elections you know they they don't mean stability so so while everybody is demanding elections and ultimately there should be elections the those who are in control right now are in control because of a coup. but if these things move too fast and you have huge swaths of the country people who live there who are disenfranchised because of the security situation and the other really important issue in mali is that there's been sort of

a continuation. of the same group of elites time and time again just a reshuffling of individuals. and no real opening of the political system for wide participation and this this leads to ongoing projects so just as what has already been said you know the fundamental problem in mali is a cold one everybody needs to come to the table somehow knight and rico she ate what this system will look like the problem is that the spoils are too great for each group so nobody wants to provide the space for everybody to to participate but it's a very fragile insecure situation currently all right well we've run out of time so we're going to have to leave the conversation there thanks so much to all our guests my how much the law suzanna wing and manu. and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward

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