this is a test and we tested today in a way that is meaningful we're going to learn and work and we're going to we're going to make adjustments and we're going to fly to the moon that's what the artemis program is all about that's what nasa is all about that's what the united states of america is all about this was a successful this was a successful day we didn't get everything we wanted and yes we're going to learn or you have to make adjustments but again this is a tast and this is why we cast a team of nepalese climbers is made history becoming the 1st to scale the world's 2nd highest mountain during the winter season the group was one of 4 international teams aiming to reach the 8600 meters summit of k 2 that's on the pakistan side of the himalayas of this time of year winds on the mountain can reach 200 kilometers an hour while temperatures drop to minus 60 degrees.

let's take you through some of the headlines here in algeria now the u.s. capitol is under unprecedented security ahead of the inauguration of president elect joe biden the secret service has created a militarized green zone 25000 national guards are being deployed. hours on the has more from washington d.c. . they are not so much worried about the same scenes as january 6th hundreds or thousands of people overtaking the u.s. capitol the capitol is completely sealed off it would be bad for a large group of people to even get close to it at this time but what they are worried about is what they term loan domestic terrorism one or 2 people doing some sort of trying to do some sort of. harm to people here in washington

d.c. . the biden administration is planning to use executive orders to undo several of president trump's landmark policies it will include reversing tromso called muslim back and rejoining the paris climate agreement during his 1st 10 days in office and plans to make the wearing of masks compulsory in federal property. uganda's president 70 is warning he'll deal decisively with any unrest following his election victory but his main opponent bobby wine says the vote was a complete fraud he's urging supporters to reject. 2 female judges have been shot dead in the afghan capital kabul was attacked when they were on their way to work. inside story now. and counting the current president she's got ambitions to turn china into a 30 trillion dollar economy by 2035 india with the biggest migration since

partition will work its return to cities and can both lead the world. counting the cost. the cold shoulder for a cold war treaty russia follows the u.s. by pulling out of the open skies agreement covering military surveillance flights will this make the world more dangerous and is the pact still relevant today this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program. one of the cornerstones of global security since the cold war is in danger of collapsing the open skies treaty allows countries to fly aircraft over each other's territories to monitor military activity but the 2

superpowers that established that pact no longer want to be part of it the u.s. completed its withdrawal in november after serving out 6 months notice russia says it will do the same arguing the remaining $34.00 signatories have made little progress on cooperation washington and moscow have accused each other of violating the treaty the announcement leaves the so-called new start as the only arms control pact between russia and the us that treaty limits numbers of nuclear warheads but expires next month so what is the open skies treaty in 1955 u.s. president dwight eisenhower suggested washington and the soviet union allow surveillance flights over each other's territories moscow rejected it at the time decades later in 1909 george h.w. bush expanded the concept to include nato members and other european countries the pact allows an armed monitoring flights to collect data on military activities the agreement was signed in 1902 and went into effect 10 years later with the

withdrawal of the u.s. and russia only european nations turkey and canada remain in the treaty. the pact doesn't include military powers like china that a flourished since the cold war and critics say the planes use for open skies flights are outdated especially when countries can conduct surveillance with smaller and more advanced drones. all right let's bring in our guests in moscow pavol felgenhauer a russian defense and military analyst in brussels to reason fallon director of the center for russia europe asia studies and in istanbul matthew bryza former director for europe and eurasia at the national security council and a former u.s. diplomat welcome to the program to reset let me start with you what happens now i mean it's a 6 month process until russia is fully withdrawn from the open skies treaty correct that's correct so this could be a kind of

a soft opening for the biden administration and it's it's really unclear right now what will happen because we know that. the start treaty expires in february so this open skies agreement is seen as kind of. at the beginning of the whole negotiation for start it's considered a smaller agreement as you mentioned in your program the issue of technology has changed we can look at google maps and see some of these things even those some of the the planes would have more sensitive data collection so the issue on both sides of the aisle were that. for example russia wasn't allowing plates over that and so we see even the personalization of this trump as a truck was very upset with our russian planes fly over a russian fleet playing over his. golf course in that minster so this may be a dated. agreement but it actually was important for building up the. faith

in each other sites and that's eisenhower's he printed out wanted to make this type of agreements to kind of a confidence building measure but technology has changed very dramatically so the fact that thomas pulled out of 3 of these types of agreements is a bit worrisome the buy didn't ministration coming into power just a couple of days has made it clear to allies and partners that it wants to work with them and so will he be able to nurture a better relationship even though in light of the recent hacking attack on the united states so it remains in the world has changed since it was 1st put on the table and the other issue is well governance issues trump made it clear that you want to china to be involved in a start agreement so russia and china and since china has made it absolutely clear they don't want to be part of it so we have to work together with russia and china a new global governance issues i think this is the key for the new buy did it in a strange and pavol is there any chance that russia would be willing to rejoin the

open skies treaty and what would have to happen in order for that to occur. but right now it seems that the crown one has definitely decided to withdraw on a course that will take some time the 6 month period has not yet begun the note has not been sent to the depositary nations that looked and today there's going to be have both in the russian duma maybe and then signed by the president and hash of that the note will be sans the 6 month countdown will begin must fight when take maybe several weeks or something but rush is getting out i believe and it's some observers here in moscow believe that this is the direct result of president trump losing the reelection and the any

hope that he might overturn the u.s. action result or also lost and so russia decided to move. russian military and the muscle likely the crown one wanted to get out of open skies anyways but there wasn't especially after the american territory became not to have any real blow but there was a belief that maybe even moscow could work this so that but the american allies who wanted open skies against americans would do not and try and give but wages into the transatlantic relationship but now unbinding has definitely become the end it's obvious that the europeans and their americans under by and move get cozy yet they're using open skies to put wages in transatlantic relationship won't wear and then moscow decided to go out and so now moscow's definitely out there's talk

that maybe if america comes back into the treaty then russia would reconsider but that is impossible. matthew let me ask you to expand on what problem with saying this policy that there's talk that perhaps if the u.s. were to come back into the treaty that maybe moscow would reconsider a u.s. president elect joe biden has said that he supports the open skies treaty is there a possibility of how that the u.s. would rejoin and is there room for negotiation between the u.s. and russia on perhaps a modified version of the open skies treaty and yes sure there is a possibility that the u.s. could return and president elect biden has signaled as you're just saying i'm humbled that he is in favor of continued arms control even beyond open skies history so is saying president elect biden has said he would like to extend the new start treaty which is the treaty that limits the numbers of nuclear warheads and delivery system so missiles. and so and that's

a position that president putin has also had which is he would like to extend the new start treaty maybe one year and then possibly going to 5 years so i interpreted this move by by russia as sending a signal to the biden administration that we're submitting our notification that 6 months from once the note is submitted as pavol has said it hasn't happened yet we will then leave this treaty so therefore articulate it is if you like to negotiate that nuclear weapons to prevent ok let's come to the table it with a fresh start if you will on a new start to reason that let me ask you this you know there are those who have said that. they've questioned you know how functional the open skies treaty is right now you were you were making mention of that in your in your previous answer me what function does a treaty like this serve in today's military landscape with the open skies treaty you have specific aircraft fitted with specific cameras they have to meet requirements some say it's it's all rather outdated at

a time when countries have access to newer drones and far better technology and cameras with higher resolution what do you say. i think that's a very good question i mean it the importance of this agreement was kind of a confidence building measure and as people pointed out putin tried to reach out to the other european member states who really do like the ability to kind of see what's going on in russia and putin try to reach out and establish an agreement with them that they wouldn't share that information with united states and that imply and so i think that. we need to continue to to cooperate with russia or talk to russia and the biden ministration has made it clear that clemency is very important but the technology has changed and i think that this type of confidence building measure would be nice to see it continue but. as you pointed out does this agreement really talk about drones i don't know that absolutely equal ability about that and some of these things you can just look at google earth and see these

things happening on the ground for example even in changing the concentration camps there were identified and open source information with satellites so i think that it's part of a larger geopolitical picture right now this type of agreement and how the u.s. and russia will work together and the key issue really is china and china does not want to be part of this as you mentioned it's $1554.00 heads china has about $300.00 and they have no desire to join an agreement like this at this point but i think over the longer term we really have to consider how to bring china into these little governance issues matthew i saw you nodding along to some of what teresa was saying there i mean since there is so little regulation when it comes to drones be used for military and surveillance purposes did open skies provide a level playing field for the signatories or does it provide

a level playing field when it comes to sharing of information when it comes to you know granting access to airspace. well i mean it is a level playing field in terms of the use of aircraft for overflights and i think you know there was a totally unrelated use of national technical means that you are satellites for observing each other's territories right that's not part of open skies and the reality is that in the last well since since since 1902 when it was 1st signed and since 2002 and open skies 1st was was fully active or implemented the u.s. satellite surveillance technologies have advanced dramatically and a lot faster than russia so to tell you the truth by maintaining open skies russia was actually having the opportunity to i would say to obtain some information that may not have been able to gather through its national technical means so but but leaving that aside to pick up on a point that teresa was just making on global governance or or on more broadly diplomacy for me diplomacy is a process it's not about it she being

a bilateral deal or a transaction as president trump often looks at a president trump famously said when he was talking about leaving open skies will the russians are violating it so if you're not going to stay in an agreement we're going to leave that agreement but diplomacy is about creating a network of agreements and understanding that lead to dialogue that that is more truthful more transparent and in the case of open skies what it did was provide a degree of transparency and therefore confidence on each side that if there were to be severe military tension that they would at least have a chance to have a channel of communication for through this visual imagery to be able to demonstrate that they maybe aren't preparing for military action pavel in your previous answer you mentioned the new start treaty this of course is the new strategic arms reduction treaty which is a nuclear arms control agreement it's the last major remaining limit on nuclear

competition between the u.s. and russia and expires on february 5th unless both governments agree to a 5 year extension do you believe that russia will agree to a 5 year extension and what needs to happen for that agreement to take place. well basically by ministration incoming and the kremlin say they want an extension and the treaty provides such a capability it can be extended one time for 5 years and without that occasion. but that she even that would be quite that not easy at all because of that there have just about 2 weeks 3 weeks. more to more like 2 weeks and the problem is that the button and this regime comes in without any of its top of the cabinet officials approved by the senate to begin shit something right so

swiftly i don't know will they manage or not because then that if they don't then that goes to new treaties we don't really meant and that will require ratification in the american senate to servers over 6 he said and senator snowe thing and then the turn to a split to today's american sentiment getting ratifying a treaty with the merkel it in is going to veto threat the problem so they'll have to go over 10 hours to just do that in those 2 weeks coming out i don't know will demand here not because there were different ideas one year extension 5 year extension with preconditions with some kind of additional declaration that doesn't lead back to it cation so you do have to stick around ratification process to get something done and it's not clear will that happen are not to reset if new start is

extended or replaced that means that the world's 2 biggest nuclear powers the u.s. and russia will return to a time where there were no significant restraints on their nuclear arsenals from your vantage point how worrying is that. i find it extremely worrying and i hope that the biden administration i mean i've seen some discussion that jake sullivan because he doesn't need to be confirmed by the senate would actually be in the negotiators chair on this and if they could get it for the one year or the 5 year and avoid any sort of senate ratification that would buy everybody's time because obviously the biden administration and day one has a very very full inbox and i think it's very important to you know get this at better 5 years but at least the 1st year and just to kind of clear the deck a bit i think it's also in russia's interest to work with us on this because russia is clearly in a difficult economic position and they have other concerns i think that this agreement has served both sides well and i think both will benefit if they can

finally get china in on it so i think this is something both sides should work together on i think they were both benefit but if it doesn't get renewed we are facing a very and certain future and we've also seen for example all this week conjunction announced he has a new sucker a nuclear weapon so we're entering a new nuclear age. period of peace is coming to an end if this isn't renewed and so i do hope very much so that the bided ministration has made this a priority it's been clear they have talked about it in the press that they do want to have this. extended and that's why it won't need senate ratification so that would be a very positive move and i hope that they are able to do that and so matthew we know that president putin and president elect biden have both said that they would agree to a 5 year extension of new start that being the case what are the sticking points here why hasn't it happened yet. well i mean it hasn't happened because the trumpet

ministration was not that which is still power by the way has not agreed has not wanted an extension of new start without russia agreeing specifically to of a freeze on new nuclear warheads a technical point but a really important one and in october the trump administration seemed to be wanting to overcome that obstacle there were some negotiations that picked up speed it looked that president trump wanted to have another diplomatic win if you will in the lead up to the presidential election and subsequently now where you know in a situation of utter chaos in washington and you know the biggest political crisis you could are already since the u.s. civil war which is by the way going to grind or is going to take up all of the senate's attention probably as it takes up impeachment of a 2nd to be president truck coming up so so to make a long story short the trump administration never got the ball over the line with with russia and now we just have to wait and see how quickly the biden

administration can come up to speed bubble i want to take a step back and look once again at the components of the open skies treaty because you now have the 2 superpowers the u.s. and russia that if the pulled out but the treaty does not cover military powers that have flourished since the end of the cold war like china india pakistan when you consider that is the open skies treaty even still relevant. yes it has pres here is problems that has. problems kind of overall political problems because this was a treaty that was signed in the time of the. the if loria after the end of the cold who or when everyone believed that war in europe is totally impossible to end thinkable and let's be friends and let's fly over each other and look out and everything is going to be just fine well right now it's not

fine at all there's another not. race happening buildup of forces and a possible war and europe actually can contemplate it and in this new environment this agreement is reality rather politically outdated it's also technically outdated the basic claim for the. open sky missions was the soviet entente a certain spine with mass produced and some getting in and were so bad countries find it and all of the former soviet republics and it and western countries could even actually luis those planes to yeah finalists for such missions and now these planes are almost all not bald the americans used to certify to boeing planes that were 30 years old when the treat us side now they're 60 years old they have to be replaced and if america would have stayed in the treaty they had have to hundreds

of millions of dollars to produce and certify a spot waynes that are actually have no good for real purposes because that they get they produce is very not what the american satellites they get a resolution of say 50 times better than the planes under the open skies so it's become rather irrelevant and it's that's why the united states and congress in my. to give that money so the united states were actually more was forced to go and with that russia is not interested i'm sure right now dressed that's left it can be will be left in the open skies is a better bill or oops ok paula then maybe when you want to fly over belarus but that's a bit too little for a big treaty and they do countries flying over each other doesn't make much sense though so i'm afraid this treaty has it this is going to be rather do no natural

want to resize saw you nodding along some of what pablo was saying did you want to jump in. well i was based in beirut in moscow during this time it was signed so there was a great honeymoon period in the post cold war period with russia and as public has pointed out the strain that period is this is this is a relic from that period and we have increased strains now with russia. also because of crimea and these other issues so i am sad to see this as described as this relic of the past and it's doomed for the future but i think that. continued diplomacy is required and. i just hope that the tenure of the conversation will change under the biden it ministration because under trump administration there have been a great deal of tensions especially in the transatlantic space and matthew throughout the show today we've been talking about the u.s. and russia pulling out of the open skies treaty we've talked repeatedly about new

start and whether or not it's going to be extended from your vantage point how much is all of this a blow to the system of international arms control. well you have had that is my concern i mean to a certain extent as we've said open skies treaty is is outdated and the new start treaty yes it provides commitments by each side to restrain the growth of their of their nuclear arsenals but you know they can undertake those constraints anyway without the new start treaty being extended so so what i worry about is you have a history so saying the trumpet ministration has has decided to pull out of these treaties also the enter the range nuclear forces treaty on the us as simply a jab at moscow so the action of breaking down cooperation and norms of cooperation which a fragile and very difficult to develop it takes years to develop a regime or a rule set of rules of cooperation on any issue like that and simply to throw those

regimes out the window because you're either angry at russia for for misbehavior from washington's perspective or because you think in isolation this agreement doesn't make sense what that ends up doing is is taking away some of the guardrails that keep a very difficult relationship between washington and moscow on the road when there's another sort of geopolitical crisis the regimes need to be protected to reset we only have about a minute left i just want to ask about how nato is reacting to all of this and how much of a concern is there amongst also these other signatories to the open skies treaty. at this point there hasn't been any statements from individual european countries and it was expected that this would happen but i think that with nato the recent interest in china so i call it use yet this combination of china russia threat this is kind of becoming more prevalent so the europeans are tending to look at not just

russia but also the combination of china and russia together this is something that has not really been seen before in this period so i think there is a growing interest or concern about china russia cooperation and what that will mean for the future of nato all right we've run out of times we're going to have to leave the conversation there thanks so much to all our guests pavel felgenhauer teresa fallon and matthew bryza and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story from emergency room and a whole team here bye for now. it's

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understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the board. take it we'll bring you the news and current affairs that matter to you. city under total lockdown $25000.00 soldiers patrol the u.s. capitol just days away from joe biden's inauguration. hello i'm sam is a band this is al jazeera live from doha also coming out. of. celebrations as uganda's president you're wearing a seventies seal's a 6 but his main rival calls the election a sham. anger and frustration in the netherlands now.