changing all of that rising temperatures and the rising ocean is altering this precious ecosystem slowly killing the animals and the mangrove itself. this is what is to come environmentalist if we don't do enough to stop the pollution and clean up our oceans. nicholas hawk al-jazeera the delta senegal. it is good to have you with us hello adrian figure here in doha the headlines on al-jazeera u.s. president joe biden says that he's ending american support for the saudi led war in yemen including a ban on the sale of specific weapons saudi arabia has responded by saying that it supports a political solution while the hooghly say they won't be deceived by statements of the real peaceful only come when the aggression in. hong kong has issued sweeping

new rules for schools to teach children as young as 6 to obey the national security law imposed by mainland china included will be education about tough penalties for antigovernment offenses there are protests in myanmar neighboring countries as people continue to push back against a military coup democratically elected politicians from but our national league for democracy upheld a symbolic meeting they were prevented from taking their seats in the new parliament and one of the posed leader aung san suu cheese close aides has been arrested when 10 is a senior n l d party figure a former political prisoner who spent decades campaigning against military rule it earlier called for people to carry out acts of civil disobedience following monday's coup scott hyder reports now from china high chiangmai rather and neighboring thailand. some of the top lieutenants the top leadership of the national league for democracy that's on sun tsu cheese party they have been arrested we know the top advisor for her for decades was just arrested early early

on friday morning so they're casting they the military and the police casting their net wider bringing in more people we know that at least a 140 or so have been detained and it clearly seems as though that's going to continue and has been throughout the day the u.s. house of representatives is punished a republican congresswoman who supported conspiracy theories marjorie taylor green has been removed from the education committee and others which was she was assigned to the congresswoman from georgia has expressed support for the q. and norm conspiracy theory in the past restaurant owners in mexico city have protested against increased restrictions is coronavirus cases that cafes and restaurants serve up until to close that outdoor dining areas they say that it will put them out of business of the best off come survived without the usual tips. and those are the headlines more used to 0 in the street thanks to. the philippines is

biting to restore the dogs saying. that the bloody deny any wrongdoing. when a student to guides on al-jazeera. a welcome to the stream home edition i'm josh rushing sitting in for fin me ok oh look see that youtube box over there in that chat we have a live producer sitting there waiting for you to get your comments and questions to me so i can get into our guest in the show so we can do this together so tell me if you will get me some questions over there and i'll ask them here in just a couple minutes now what we're talking about today is actually just kind of breaking this afternoon in canada they've declared the proud boys a terrorist organization alongside al qaeda and isis which begs the question why

hasn't the u.s. it's a u.s. based far right extremist group why hasn't it been declared a terrorist group peer that's what they were discussed with our panel today there is a renewed interest of course in domestic terrorism now with the new administration of what happened on january 6th in fact i believe president biden might be the 1st president ever to mention it in an operation speech here listen to this. a cry for survival come sort of planet itself a cry that can't be any more desperate or any more clear now a rise of political extremism white supremacy the mystic terrorism that we must confront and we will defeat. white supremacy and domestic terrorism in the not her recent speech now here's the thing the u.s. actually doesn't have a formal law for domestic terrorism is of the debate as should it but as we know from the past what happens when the u.s. has expanded temp powers under the name of terrorism often has minority groups in

the u.s. who have suffered the most under those new laws so that's also can be a part of today's discussion i want to bring the panel in now i'm asking to introduce themselves to you and then we're going to take off here khalid can you begin to become a director of policy and research at the soufan group thank you collin and develop . i mean as our son mass and i'm an attorney at the center for constitutional rights and new york and i work on challenging surveillance and discriminatory policing practices and i think still am a stuff. of am a i'm an author and professor and i'm in writing you from brooklyn new york. so call and tell me this one tell our audience what the soufan group is and then to lie doesn't the u.s. have a law for domestic terrorism. sure soufan group is a security consulting firm we do products for a number of clients looking at you know

a range of security national security and homeland security related topics there's a couple of reasons why the united states doesn't have a domestic terrorism law or statute what is the concern that politicians or even the president could use that law to target political adversaries and i think you know after the last 4 years it doesn't take much imagination to see that actually coming to fruition president trouble on several occasions threaten to designate. but paid no mention to the range of far right extremist groups that we saw threatening the capitol on january 6th groups like the proud boyer's the oath keepers the 3 percent ers and others. i want to bring in a comment from someone in our community this is charles lister he is the director of countering terrorism extremism in the middle east is to took this our greatest domestic terror threats and in america today arguably come from

a combination of the far right and the various aggressive conspiracy communities that have developed and been few by trump that's arguably being realized through the increasing assertiveness of local and national militia movements and a surge in violent incidents attempted attacks and even a recent suicide bombing in nashville late last year and then of course comes the persistent challenge posed by jihadists but centrally directed and inspired by the likes of al qaida are nice it's not it's not a frat that's clearly not going away and if anything the recent surge in law enforcement and intelligence focus on the far right might even present an opportunity for jihadists to operate more freely in america so much stuff of domestic terrorism there's nothing new about it been around but something new happened in 1983 and it's a wall congress of these extremist groups met in idaho and declared war against the u.s. government and they trained for that they raise funds for it and really the kind of

zenith of that was blowing up the federal building in oklahoma city through all these years and since then the government's never really posture itself against these groups as if it is a. insurgency property in 2009 the obama administration the department of homeland security came out and said that white nationalism was a leading threat in the u.s. it was major blowback well what's going on with that why why does it seem like the government looks the other way on this kind of extremism. well you know who has paid the price for all of that and it's largely been arab and muslim communities within the united states because i believe it's just a lot easier to think that the threat is coming from outside it allows you to see like you are pristine and that you've been invaded by some foreign adversary but in fact as we know as becoming clearer and clearer that's just not the case and not

only is it not the case but there's not enough. initiative there's not enough drive there's not enough purpose from law enforcement to actually even enforce the laws that we do have on the books and i think actually trying to introduce new laws on the books will only mean bad news for arabs in muslim communities but not only them but in fact many other minority communities and activists communities around the country is a racial component though is to to why the u.s. government seems to be so proactive in going after what they call terrorism when they see it from basically nonwhite them when they're from a white guy so i think there's no question that there's a racial component and you know it's not only the u.s. government in fact i think it's really just part of american culture in fact even even the journalism community you know when you have a plot that gets for oil and it makes a huge splashy news it's done by somebody who is affiliated with muslim communities and one study has found that that kind of study will get more than 750 percent more

coverage than a similar plot by a non muslim so this is actually a deeper problem than just thinking about law enforcement. in diyala as a word terrorism even useful useful in this regard at all or is it part of the problem. yeah i mean i actually think that it's part of the problem because it sort of bridges of our ability to properly diagnose what is going on and you know you started with referencing the oklahoma city bombing and i think that's a really good place to start to illustrate the point that every time acts of violence white supremacist violence have occurred the response has actually been to pass laws and legislation in this case it was the end of the terrace if i could get a penalty at the time merrily her brown and black community say that that statute of sensibly asked to address the problem why it's only for minority communities and so that's really i think the fear that many of us who've been seeing these long

term patterns have about how this particular moments might be again trying to utilize to push his agenda that are ultimately not going to address the root causes of white supremacy the real problem of white supremacist violence that many of us who work side by side with movements like movements or black lives and muslim communities have had we've had longstanding concerns about the problem of white supremacists infiltration of law enforcement including and the halls of congress i'm so i think our our our real concern is how what do we need to be doing. as a government and law enforcement to properly address problem by violence and white supremacy and and passing more laws and giving f.b.i. agents more tools and expanding the category of terrorism is not the solution and it will only sort of exacerbate the problem and and have and will see those tools

be turned against the more vulnerable. elements of the population in only muslim communities as it was a most of us said and and black dissenters primarily which is also where we've seen a lot of these laws be kind of turned. against you know the. just recent examples of the f.b.i. really focusing on black dissent in there and matter movements and that's as a primary targets an end they've even used language smearing domestic terrorism to talk about those immigrants and so that's really where concern comes from. we're talking about the idea deep in the police and how it converges with the idea of calling for a crackdown on the kind of people who invaded the capital in january 6th what do you think the government should do. well the notion no i think the way that the notion of defining a police resonates here is that it stems from the same fundamental analysis which

if you have a look an agency like the f.b.i. or department of justice with a really long history of anti-black and time will slam sentiment at the institutional level as well as in at the individual agents level those of us who have worked representing clients who have to deal with agents consider a test of some of that the question of why you would try to answer the problem of white supremacy by giving those agencies more tools is sort of an essential one and i think that's a central question to be fine with trade if a call is ringback matter if the call is that we have institutional racism within these law enforcement agencies and why would we call for giving them more resources and reform when part of the problem that we're identifying is is right there so i think that some of the parallel sort of thinking here that's at the core of the critique. of these proposals these policy proposals is budgetary expansion

proposals and these you know add in kind of criminal laws to throw prosecutorial instinct at a problem that's far worse and far bigger than you know some just some criminals are going to get some of my you tube community to go by reverb trying to says we need to use the laws we already have in the rest of cell is another persuasiveness a video comment. was a civil rights lawyer at the leadership conference on civil and human rights name who could doom. our pollution wrote a letter to congress and to the administration with over 151 signing on opposing international authorities for 2 reasons 1st there are over 50 statute and others. the already allow for the investigation and prosecution of violent terrorist activity in the united states. does the

majority they're already on the books have been disproportionately used against black and brown communities particularly in black lives matter activists muslims arabs south asians and others and we know that any additional forty's will probably be used disproportionately against black and brown communities. so collen are there enough laws on the books are ready to handle this you know why can't the us declare these organizations terrorist organizations like canada today and if there are enough laws on the books to handle it. the what happened on january 6th how this case out of control. well the u.s. can't declare those groups as terrorist organizations because as you mentioned in your opener we don't have a domestic terrorism statute c equivalent of an f.b.o. a foreign terrorist organization statute that department of state would put forth i think for sure we need to start enforcing the laws that we have on the books we see

that you know evident from january 6th there's a double standard i mean the other guests have pointed that out and that's been clear for a long time i think in this country another aspect of that is you know if you look at the nashville bombing christmas day this was a person who was reported to police he was you know building a bomb essentially in a trailer and most people thought immediately including myself had the been a black or brown person or a muslim that would have been you know investigated and followed up on right away and that bombing never would have taken place so all that said i published a piece in the new york times 2 sundays ago talking about the new or a foreign violence and i do think it's worth exploring at the level of the national security council or what else what other tools the authorities need because if they're saying they don't have enough tools to combat whites from says file and i think it's worth listening to i think this needs to be

a transparent discussion and i'm willing to to have that conversation. do you think there are some some lessons to be learned from the wait after 911 the way the expanded authorities were used in the u.s. again it's communities of color particularly those who hate islam. yeah i mean look there's a lot that went wrong in the so-called global war on terrorism you know 1st of all the name itself terrorism is a tactic it makes no sense to the clore declare war against a tactic moreover we didn't really mean all types of terrorism we meant you know terrorism inspired by some of the jihad s. and that was expanded to the broadest possible definition and communities in the united states over americans. and are still suffering so i think there's got to be an accounting for that at the same time i think you know the threat that we're looking at now from domestic terrorists and domestic violence shrimp us it's far more diverse than what we've been looking out for the last 20 years we've been

looking at a very narrow slice of the terrorism threat now we're looking at you know anti-government militias violent conspiracy theorists and a whole range of other groups and individuals of movements that fall under this broader far right are brilliant. so i'm looking at our youtube chat and there's a lot of kind of conspiracy theory again thrown around here someone who says this is being blown way out of proportion by dems and leftists you know like with a lot of extremism it's really ideology at the heart of it and beliefs and looking at the youtube comments right now there's a lot of just information and conspiracies out there looking at says discipline weight out of proportion because of the leftists in the dems and you know we actually have video coming from a cognitive scientist at the university college london the piece of me who touches on this idea we know from our psychology and brimstone studies that it's very difficult to change people's core beliefs extremists coralie fs but what we do find is that they are amenable to peer influence they're less willing to engage in

violence if they feel like their peer group does not approve of it the problem would be platform extremists from social media is that they migrate to other platforms and once they're there are new peer group all basically agree with them that's making it more likely for them to engage in violence so the real question in the long term is going to be how can we in gauge with rather than exclude extremists from public discourse. moustafa best sounds like a question for a professor what do you think about the disinflation at the heart of these ideas. i couldn't agree more with that youtube comment that you just put up there i mean i think the internet is a primary source for mentioning dangerous violent ideologies of all kinds of stripes and and it has a tendency towards an echo chamber kind of a propensity and that i think is extremely dangerous i mean we saw that for example

with understanding brevik in norway who radicalized himself very much going down that hall and is connected to all kinds it was connected to all kinds of far right movements across the world and that's the other side of this is that you know we talked a lot during the war on global war on terror about the global nature of this threat that's there but inside the right wing is it's also a global phenomenon it's not just an american phenomenon and if we don't really understand the real primary threat that it. that it itself has and i think we're in some real trouble. so the other what do you think about the misinformation part of this you think the u.s. government needs to do something about the misinformation that's out there were is a slot in the hands of the social media companies would really go with this. you know on that question i mean i absolutely think that. we have a challenge with you know the amount of misinformation and kind of organizing

that's been happening online and and that social media companies need to be regulated and called to account for some of that we see this also raises some real civil liberties concerns you know what do we really want facebook to be in the business of deciding what is acceptable speech and what's not acceptable speech that media conversation for another day but we're seeing some real concern about how far they're going including you know considering. adopting policies and anti-semitism for example that actually were result in living any criticism of israel but on the question of you know i think the sort of social media the social media questions are one step and i'm really much more concerned about what kinds of theories are being put forward in the ranks. of the agencies that are going to be tasked with doing some of this and for cement and if you want to look at what. you

know the sort of the there's a real concern here is when you have agencies like the f.b.i. trying to explain for example muslim radicalization and developing some really concerning and fundamentally flawed theories of how to stay in or more slums and suddenly turns into a violent extremist in the end and i'm saying this with a sort of sense of irony but unfortunately we've you know we've seen documents about various theories that have have have been pedal to justify you know the sort of very expansive and broad based suspicion or surveillance of of muslim communities and so it's with it's with that background the knowledge of that very long history and i'm just giving an example of muslims we don't even have to talk about the sort of. acrobatics that the more. unli even the f.b.i. has done to try to to to designate violent extremists you know black identity

extremists where they are what it called black identity to miss to justify the surveillance of those kinds of political dissent movements so it's with that knowledge of that background that i sort of brain deep suspicion of efforts of law enforcement agency in its idea that we if we just gave them more tools this time directing them a white supremacists that they would get it right i don't think that history shows us that that's how that happens i think just so you don't flip a switch and suddenly transform an engine see these are deep seeded long histories with with sort of india logical basis and. unfortunately the problem with that the word terrorism has. come to equate terrorism as as one of the other powerset so i just would really urge caution coming down that road color queue jumping near dallas saying that the government is part of the problem

that these agencies like the f.b.i. and police the police in your filtrated by the right wing extremists are the problem so giving them where power only has fuel to fire it what do you think of her assessment. it's just not that black and white it's far more complex and we know for sure that there has been the presence of you know racially and ethnically motivated individuals in law enforcement the military but the f.b.i. frankly you know when it comes to domestic terrorism and white supremacy has been the tip of the spear they've been successful in infiltrating these groups in the 1990 s. and leading to the decentralization of the movement and i think they're well aware if you listen to what the rector reyes of the threat coming from individuals motivated by this kind of audiology the f.b.i. has open cases in all 50 states and is determined to track down individuals you know involved in the capital insurrection so. you know from from where i sit i

think if law enforcement asking for more tools saying they don't have what they need again i'm inclined to listen to them while at the same time and i think you know both of our guests have made really important points and they're accurate we have to learn from lessons of the past you know very often we talk about lessons learned i think are pretty schrans maybe having more more correct which is lessons observed right because we fail to learn these lessons but i'm willing to give the by the ministration the benefit of the doubt and listen to some of the folks involved in you know thinking about this very complex problem you are coming to the end of the show yourself i want to hear what you think do you think that the f.b.i. and the security forces in the u.s. do you think they have enough authority to do this do you trust that there will handle this appropriately or do you see a backlash on. commune i think they have the if so i think they have the authority whether they have the will or not and now that appear that they do have the will

because it's become a politically active issue but if they said clearly they have not had the will up until today because it's now a live issue the way that it is i mean if you like to maybe be a bit better in building in the ninety's. where has this will been. exactly that would be my question as well where has this well been and not only that i mean it got diverted much of it got separated to foreign terrorist organization so they were other other kinds of laws material support statutes for example were used heavily instead of just using the laws that were on the books i can give you an example if i may very briefly you know many years ago i was actually at a meeting with the f.b.i. with the local muslim communities here in new york at 1 point one of the f.b.i. leaders then turns to the muslim community says you know we're investigating the muslim community the way that we investigated the cosa nostra. you know the italian mafia and i thought wow this is what and more what an enormously problematic seem

to say 1st of all it's as if the whole muslim community is just part of a mafia family and secondly they're not investigating the muslim community is the way that they investigate it because it goes to the way they investigated the cosa nostra was through the statutes that they have on the books such as you know racketeering or interstate commerce and those kinds of statutes instead the muslim communities get national security letters they get unwarranted surveillance they get a whole host of other kinds of law enforcement tools that would not fly in the domestic sphere and so i really worry about expanding the reach of the f.b.i. it's into the point where are we all going to just become. vulnerable to being the late under the label of terrorism at some point. i mean clearly that that it was the office fix to the lack of understanding the f.b.i. has the muslim community in america maybe they understand this white supremacy community better but that's our show for today i want to think call

a call in india for joining us to discuss this and we'll keep watching this story of an al-jazeera as it breaks take.

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bangladesh government. thanks to. al-jazeera investigations all the prime minister's men. we are in need all american support for offensive operations in the war in yemen including relevant arms sales the us president joe biden calls for an end to the war and yemen during his 1st foreign policy speech. hello i'm adrian finnegan this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up just days after being jailed washing opposition leader legs in a violent.