bill the earlier. i got a crack down brady wins it again next year that i make you cry and you know right now yes i did actually take it back. 43 years old in 188 days brady is already the oldest player to ever play in a super bowl and it appears he's not done yet. with. david stokes al-jazeera thank you. so this is our desire these are the top stories and lawyers for former us president donald trump are filed defense papers saying the senate's impeachment trial starts on tuesday is unconstitutional they also deny the charge that trump incited his supporters to storm capitol hill but democrats prosecuting trump say he has no valid defense the trial is clearly constitutional by every frame of the now assists by constitutional text historical practice senate precedent and basic common sense

a president cannot simply resign to avoid accountability for an impeachable offense nor can they escape judgment by waiting until their final few weeks in office to be train or country the impeachment powers assigned to the congress by the constitution cannot be defeated by a president who decides to run away or trashes our democracy on the way out the door this trial will confirm that fact. georgia has opened an investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the state's 2020 election results in a leaked telephone call trump pressured secretary of state brett reference program to find votes based on unfounded fraud claims. as military routers have imposed a curfew and yang gone in mandalay and banned gatherings of more than 5 people it's meant to stop growing protests against last week's military coup. colombia is to

grant protective legal status to hundreds of thousands of undocumented refugees and migrants from venezuela a temporary measure will make them eligible to apply for 10 years residence who permits. somalia's opposition leaders say they no longer recognize the president mohammed for much of his term has expired but with no agreement on elections to replace him an alliance of opposition candidates say they won't accept an extension of his term a plan to hold an indirect presidential election on monday broke down over disagreements on how to proceed with the vote opposition politicians in haiti have named their own president in the office dr general moyse joseph messina john louis he's been selected as interim leader is the oldest judge in the country supremes courts the opposition says the president wants his 5 year term expired on sunday. headlines inside story coming right up.

is the u.s. losing the war against cyber attacks american trade agents reveal that other countries hired them to spy on washington and its allies president joe biden is promising to make cyber security a priority so can he deliver this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm homage enjoy him the united states has one of the world's most extensive intelligence operations the government is projected to spend just under $1000000000.00 on cyber security this year despite this security experts

say the u.s. is losing ground to other nations who are hiring american trained agents to spy on enemies and other americans the new york times says the united arab emirates hired former national security agency operatives to target they hacked e-mails between caught a chef homo's up and also and michelle obama during the former 1st lady's visit to doha in 2015 it's the latest allegation of the u.a.e. hiring u.s. expertise to spy on adversaries the revelations come as america is still reeling from one of its worst ever cyber attacks in december hackers compromise an information technology firm called solar winds they use that access to spy on the government u.s. cyber security agency has blamed russia but moscow denies involvement in 2015 a security breach was discovered at the u.s. office of personnel management hackers stole the personal data of more than 22000000 people many of them government employees. in 2016 both the democratic national committee and hillary clinton's presidential campaign were targeted more

than 40000 emails were leaked many containing confidential information and over the past decades many private companies have been hacked including yahoo sony adobe and linked in some breaches lead to millions of people having their personal data compromised that includes passwords phone numbers and credit card information u.s. president joe biden is making cyber security a priority he's hiring more experts and plans to boost funding we've elevated the status of cyber issues within our government including a point of 1st national deputy national security adviser for cyber and emerging technology we're launching an urgent initiative to improve our capability readiness and resilience in cyberspace. all right let's bring in our guests in augusta georgia jake williams president and founder of rendition info sec and the u.s. army veteran in geneva switzerland so fond you gotta c.e.o.

of the cyber peace institute and a former europol official and in arlington virginia bryson bort c.e.o. of sky and co-founder of i.c.'s village a nonprofit organization advancing education and awareness of security for critical infrastructure welcome to the program price and let me start with you today on the one hand america is the world's most advanced cyber superpower but it's also the most targeted how did the u.s. become as vulnerable as it has become yes so the expression that we have there is. the reference to the glass house and certainly as we've moved into the information age it's no surprise that he never want to come to me in the world with modern business predicated on yours although it's who are critical infrastructure that which how active we are in for us see that personally on the private side that would make us both a bit open to those kinds of things. stefan let me ask you from your vantage point

is the u.s. one of the countries that is most vulnerable to cyber attacks and what's the impact of that and thank you for having us i mean the most one of the more he's going to the complex notion it's as long as everyone agrees that this business is a little bit with private companies can be too understanding the kind of intrusion tools they can to think tools that she'd on the vulnerabilities of everyone and at the end of the day everyone is vulnerable because that's really not all of us so it's neutral and he's going to have the business model so states are suffering from jake in december it was revealed that the u.s. was hit by a hacking operation that was blamed on russia and described as the worst in american history what is president biden currently doing to strengthen cyber security well certainly there have been a number of initiatives but i think one of the most important pieces is

strengthening that public private partnership the reality is that today a lot of private businesses in the united states have cyber security now regimes and cyber security tools and staff that are on par with or exceed what we're often we find in the u.s. government regardless of you know whether you put the u.s. government above or below commercial space getting that trust back into government cybersecurity is huge and binds down a lot of staff that would with folks that are trusted throughout the industry to rebuild a public private partnership bryson the new york times article that we were citing earlier by the cole pro roth says that the n.s.a. knew that the vulnerabilities it was finding and exploiting would one day blow back on americans that they developed a strategy called active defense but that that strategy ultimately didn't work that well what's your take on that and do you think that the n.s.a. has focused more on off and than it has on defense. yeah i think i think the question isn't quite framed correctly and this is where i go sideways but

you know to say is that the national security agency is not solely responsible for the defense of all computers and the united states their mission is much more outside of the country and focused on a signals intelligence to understand the expense of adversaries or in the case of cyber attacks. some level of c. there was an attempt to disrupt them i think we have seen plenty of precedent where the private industry has done a lot with that take downs that we did recently. and certainly as chait noted i mean part of what we're going to see on the divided administration is be continued for domestic agencies like csa bets going to take the lead on even more of a domestic vocus a lot more public private partnership because it's all one connected ecosystem that has to work together to respond to these things jake i saw you nodding along somewhat bryson was saying to you want to jump in oh yeah definitely look i have

100 percent agree with what branson saying here are the n.s.a. definitely does have a much more limited mandate they are not in charge of protecting our computers in the united states in particular on the domestic side and we do need more investment in that to and that defense you know defensive posture and reality wise we need timely dissemination of information from the government on down to private entities and that's what democrats and others over sees an administration i don't expect to see more of that in the current administration safad do you believe that the average person around the world really has a good idea a good grasp of just how vulnerable their security and the security of their respective governments are to the threat from cyber attacks and hacking and cyber warfare. there's room if you will to hers 1st because most of the attacks when the un is closed have allies look from the point of view of the phone which will cost

00 ids werman even words that are really going to grow as a citizen and we do too often forgot that the focus should be the human cost the state all impacts to the attack you mentioned before what's what can we look into in terms of strategy to defense of others states of capacity to acts way beyond just the technical often solutions i mean this is international law or this is the norm is the rules of the rules and the states and many states for example the really in requirements to what the review existing and making sure that this flow make sense for you and i you know one of the using the internet or not to you what's up in the industry who which are bullet butting in go off why because there was no international agreement where the intrusion into our look for all of this can we can we spot them and because of that suddenly it's

private companies but in legal that would decide the fates of the abilities of millions bryson what's the level of concern in the u.s. government and in the u.s. about former members of the n.s.a. being recruited by foreign governments or by foreign companies that have ties to foreign governments who would then use their expertise to target america and americans. i mean i don't i don't think that's an old concept seemed that throughout history of human kind where specialists and military or intelligence find their way in various private forms other places i think it is a bit disconcerting in this regard where those specialists or co-opted or willingly or unwillingly we we don't know the full story. to do things that were turned out zooms across that line. but it's not appropriate from

a spy perspective certainly in nicole's article she talks about the fact that when david salter the e-mails from that and 1st lady michelle obama come across the screen as an analyst that was that was a red flag that. really showed how far it had gone jake it looked like you wanted to jump in as well but i also want to ask you if there are any laws that prevent contractors from sharing spycraft expertise with foreign companies that have ties to foreign governments or with specifically foreign governments. well from a spy craft standpoint with direct work for foreign governments in the us you would have to register basically that you are in the cooperate a mood or supplying a foreign power from a contract stamp when it's not always clear you know who specifically you're working for and what the scope of that work is and in so you know if you look at

the story that nicole published you know in this case that wasn't direct government was direct work for a contractor who happened to then be working for that for the for him for that matter you know the line between oftens and deepens and i think this is something that it's really important roasted to focus on even is not always clear right so i'm we talk about you know spy craft in a sense do we mean as the subject we have the office of the office of techniques of compromising a target or are we talking about the analysis of that data which can have both off and 7 events of uses and then of course there's a whole range of defensive capabilities as well again it's just not always clear where that line is so i think that's probably one of the biggest parts about the recruiting side i think most folks in you know in the u.s. who would be recruited for explicitly oftens of missions targeting folks back home in the u.s. would steer clear away from that but when it's not published clearly in those terms

and i think it becomes a much more stuff i want to take a step back and take a look at the kind of impact that cyber attacks could have on specific sectors in in any given country one type of cyber attacks that many might not be aware of our cyber attacks on hospitals and health organizations i'm asking you about this because you and the cyber peace institute of called for an end to coronavirus related cyber attacks you've asked governments around the world to take action how big a threat are these attacks how much are they happening and are governments taking action. now the threat is going to be given what's that sir about it's the new friends it's been there for decades it's a career in teams that elite and at the peak of the pandemic and the 1st big 1st wave you could easily documents one back the date on hospital

if you will of our group and during hospital once believed in the midst of an image to destroy all the computers which issue the interview. with rick a bit differently but we go back to your questions but not to the knowledge eagle well as the problem for one citizen that would like a very diverse student your professional of health or your patients you're facing criminal groups that are trying to run somewhere your hospital to get money you are facing state that those that are performing cyber espionage in lieu through targets that lad and research center on the x. in your face in the group between criminals and states which are launching misinformation can bring you live for you not to trust the word of doctors and more so it's quite a complex feel the difference is certainly exhilarating bryson from from your perspective what's the responsibility of governments to protect their societies from cyber attacks and to ensure that critical infrastructure is protected from

pacs and from cyber espionage. i think it is the prerogative of government i have been advocating the best way here or even more i think that the policy discussion has. been pulled a straight so i look forward to being able to refocus that we need by the administration i think the appointment of the national soccer director which will have a high level position focused on cyber security and specifically looking at these kinds of domestic issues which going back to what jake and i said earlier that he with public private partnership being a significant part of this government can't do this alone private industry can't do this alone in a step by noted the stakes are only getting higher as we cross from your desk your leads and the information age i think we've now reached this very specific tipping point in the information age where cyber his goal systems the fact that computers

are no longer about data but computers can now affect the physical world your critical infrastructure what's happening in a hospital where your water is coming from that's already by computers and so we now have serious risk of loss of white limb in consequence and we need to take that very seriously stefan i saw you nodding just now did you want to jump in as well. you know this is a very important condor that was just made because it doesn't include all that's for sure states cannot respond to the whom we support in the states are leading the way i mean it's maybe not be noon was tons of initiative volunteers the journalists the activists who are in your providing capacity or create in order to protect the some space to bring peace to the space where who not in states to lead the world we do the convincing of of today in terms of how across the skin of private companies that can provide capacity to state to act basically anyone in the

world this kind of rule can be. explained from the point of view state that is just not not not ok not acceptable and model you could be looking to for this so states can do it and push it actors except to say that you know cuba will be there too and to support and help jake at the last few minutes we've heard about the role of civil society about the role of private enterprise you know how much responsibility does private enterprise have in all of this and especially in the u.s. going forward are we going to see more cooperation between companies and the government to ensure that infrastructure you know is more protected and that these kind of hacks can't happen going forward. sure i mean look the reality is that we live in a capitalistic society and the reality is well that unfortunately cyber security today is seen as a cost center and not a profit center and so and i guess technically that is true or it is a cost center cybersecurity doesn't make money for the organization it's really

a loss of urgent and so you know one of the things that i think we're going to see is the need for i suspect all are not necessarily and they respect probably more regulation and very likely you know specially the smaller small medium enterprise sizes i think we're going to need to start supplying you know some know how whether that's through grants or assistance or whatever form that takes to get some of these smaller organizations you know up and running with cyber security the reality is that the smallest organizations play a role in some of the largest bridges we see anecdotally a very large attack that we worked in my company watched year against a very very large fortune 500 biomed you know organization the command and control was actually a man in control for the incident was actually hitting off a pataki studio that had exactly one employer photographer up in new york city and so this is

a spot where this photography studio had bass that we abandoned their website had an updated attackers compromise that and then use that as part of their attack on this large fortune $500.00 biomet company and so really as we look at this it's going to have to be a you know really a partnership across the board we can't simply say as we do in so many regulations today you know in the u.s. at least to say well you all this only applies to you have you know if you're above a certain revenue target or above a certain number of employees we have to really look at cyber as the entire ecosystem safad in your last answer you made mention of human rights activists specifically and i want to i want to dig a little deeper on that because time and again authoritarian regimes have increasingly use spyware to go after human rights defenders and activists is there a way to reduce the risk that they face. though the dream of its services through the shooting will. work an example of

a missile group with the spyware known the plague it was in the more than 100 victims over the past thermals of the 46 countries with more journalists made activists. whether going on people in the in the words of your symmetry because every little capacity to protect themselves if not a person to protect themself but their high dogs as long as the 2 of those states most of these kids. only and birds the the good and check in little develop procure and syrup intrusion doors that are basically designed by lead to good human rights then then we have a systemic issue to be a mission of security and peace in the service of these bryson is there a chance that going forward we could potentially see governments coming together

attempting to protect themselves by entering into some type of cyber security treaties i mean this would be something similar to nuclear treaties between between countries do you think that's something that's within the realm of the possible. so we have the blueprint for what that would look like and that's called the taliban. and like so many things in the world it's you know it aggregate academic answer on paper and yet nobody has agreed to it in practice and we see the same issue here because. we see nation states wanting to preserve their rights to be able to respond or to advance their interests and of course cyber is what we're talking about here is only one part of how those national interests are fomented there are so many other levers of state i think what we're going to see is the internet as we've known it as aids korea and project it is dead that's not going to continue we

see authoritarian countries locking down their own internets and i think we're going to see is the world continue to at least bifurcated possibly break into small pieces of the internet and those smaller pieces won't trouble you have a informal to formal recognition and some basic rights of what that means to be on the internet jake it looked again like you wanted to jump in so so let me ask you as well i mean you know are we going to see this type of thing going forward please go ahead and expand to the point that bryson was making if you like. you know i've had breakdowns right where we absolutely have the blueprint for this a that's what right as well that you know we are going to see out of segmentation i believe at least of the global internet we've already seen in china we're seeing authoritarian regimes most recently ma'am are having off internet access to their you know to their citizen and we also see as well the limit even when the it's not cut off limiting what individuals can see in the i do expect that that's going to

be you know bifurcated but but separately from that a big problem that we have we had setting norms a lot of people like to compare the you know compare cyber to you know deterrence maybe in model that's normally uses in the nuclear age right the nuclear deterrent and cyber just doesn't work with same way and the reality is that if you know if we have some type of kinetic attack after abuse of that attack and if there was simple i mean the big thing that we lack in bombers today is a good solid after lucian without knowing without being able to conclusively say this is who performed the attack it's very difficult to direct any one to unfortunate turns into a direct any countermeasures towards that group i mean we have several examples of cyber all flags as we call them with adversaries intentionally misdirecting you know investigators and then of course there are probably an unknown number of those that were successful that we just don't even know are all flags so i think until we

fix the after vision problem i don't see how we get to a really a set of cyber norms because how then will you actually enforce that stuff on how concerned are you that this all only gets worse going forward and and when we talk about potential worst case scenarios what would you envision. you know just a little what was certain terms of them would we need to. sort of use an i o. u.'s. this is a basic this deed is the existing international law applies in cyberspace it's we committed here and there's a set of norms that has been there we have to be a fall in force and they really believe we're going to because it will do the it is well and norm of oil interests or law is violated nothing is happening in terms of the tradition we did are that we know what has been a tradition and it took 33 year of defeat we need 2 of capacity one of those for police at that but also ordered this is public in order to link the doc to

suffering in the law so that the public you and i if you want to understand what he's working on and if he does continues down the road on the birth then we are facing recently or we're years is nearly years kettering of the nets yes the greek the beast is going to be quite so quite complicated and the because of because in the symmetry between the wunderkind end of the day the films there are. all right we've run out of time so we're going to have to leave the discussion there thank you so much to all our guests jake williams safaga and bryce and board and thank you too for watching you can watch us program again any time on al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter we're at at a.j. inside story from image and from the whole team here i find out.

on counting the cost china could become the 1st country to issue a digital currency is it rains in the tank giant's house prices rise despite tanking economies increasing the divide between generations and fishermen in the philippines struggle to make a living. counting the cost on al-jazeera what should americans be thinking and doing right now it should be about ideas they don't care about their work is all they care about is making money china is not going to be left out of the calling

for the bloated defense budget to be trying to bottom line on u.s. politics some policies in their effect on the world.

the diverse range of stories from across the globe from the perspective of our networks journalists on al-jazeera. there are mcloughlin there are the top stories here on al-jazeera in fairness to the lawyers for former us president donald trump filed defense papers saying the senate impeachment trial starting on tuesday is unconstitutional they also deny the charge that trump incited his supporters to storm a capitol hill but democrats prosecuting trump say he has no valid defense i did your castro reports now from washington we fight we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country and those were some i'm gonna laugh.