races a century of racial injustice to review how philanthropy politics and economics preserve structural inequality keeping white a supreme and black in its place the race for america part 2 on a jersey or. hello i am sam is a than it 1600 g.m.t. that 11 am in washington d.c. where former us president donald trump's unprecedented 2nd senate impeachment trial has resumed trump is accused of inciting insurrection in the past are they house impeachment managers and trump's lawyers made their case for and against the

calling of witnesses you can see the live pictures there it's looking a little bit quiet right now but in the end they voted to call those witnesses including some republican senators the vote went 554 and 45 against we have 2 correspondents following the story in a moment we'll go to andy gallacher in west palm beach in florida close to don trump's residence but 1st let's go to alan fischer on capital hill so allan a little bit of i think there's a little bit i think we can say was a little bit of a surprising development i know it was very much up in the air but it seemed a lot of people were thinking they're not going to actually call me with this is and this is going to wind down and be over pretty soon right vet is not happening. at the end of business on friday it didn't look as if there were going to call any witnesses it looked as if we'd moved to closing statements on saturday possibly a vote at some point in the next few hours and it will be done and dusted there was

a couple of reports in the united states overnight one from a republican congresswoman from washington who said that she had a conversation with kevin mccarthy the leader of the republicans in the house who'd been speaking to donald trump on the 6th of january and that got very heated because he called for donald trump to send help because the security lines here had been breached and he had said to kevin mccarthy maybe those people are more interested in the result of the election than you are kevin mccarthy got very angry about that repeated the conversation to several people when he came off the fore and that seemed to be a new development and then we also heard donald trump's lawyer say during the hearing on friday that donald trump was very concerned about the safety of my parents sources close to my parents in the american reporting on friday night said the boy at essentially a lie to the senate that was not the case donald trump did not get in touch was not concerned about his safety so overnight i was speaking to people this morning

overnight there was a debate going on among the house impeachment managers and the democrats on whether or not to call witnesses the person i was speaking to said that even until the last minute it was up in the year and i said when will we find when jimmy raskin stands up jimmy raskin stood up just about an hour ago and said yes he wanted to call witnesses specifically he wanted a deposition which is a witness statement from the congresswoman from washington state to see what she had to say and also left open the opportunity that he could then expand that because if she said so and so also have this he can then say well i want to interview them the me will go as far as kevin mccarthy donald trump's lawyer stood up and said look if you're going to call lawyers cole witnesses we're going to call it a. call hundreds of witnesses everyone who's been charged and said that donald trump was responsible we're going to depose them we're going to depose the vice president we're going to depose the speaker of the house he got quite show at one point and

he said i'm going to take them to my office in philadelphia to do it the people in the senate chamber then actually laughed at him and this is why here's the rule the senate decides who gets to call witnesses they've decided that yes they can call witnesses the senate gets to decide which witnesses you call the has to be a vote on who gets to to give evidence marco rubio who's a republican senator who voted against the idea of witnesses said ok no for going to have witnesses both sides need to be able to call who they want to make the case so this seems to be a fair but it's not going to be that clear cut but what we had in the chamber is that both sides are very keen. on the whole idea of what this is if it's done under the right circumstances last night congresswoman jamie herrera butler of washington state issued a statement confirming that in the middle of the insurrection when house minority

leader kevin mccarthy called the president to beg for help president trump responded and i quote well kevin i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are we would like the opportunity to subpoena congresswoman herrera regarding her communications with house minority leader kevin mccarthy if they want to have witnesses i'm going to need at least over 100 depositions the only thing that i ask if you vote for a witness is do not handcuff me by limiting the number of witnesses that i can have i need to do a thorough investigation that they did not do. i need to do the 911 style investigation that nancy pelosi called for i think more michael vanderveen who is donald trump's lawyer seems to forget is

that this isn't a court of law there are different rules for impeachment hearing so it's not quite the same he of course isn't a constitutional lawyer he's not a civil rights expert he's a personal injury lawyer from philadelphia and so he doesn't get to decide in a court of law he could see why i need this witness and that was it's not the same in the senate it's completely different and what was interesting when it came to the votes of who to call witnesses lindsey graham who has been a big supporter of donald trump has talked about how this is a sham impeachment is just driven by hatred of donald trump he changed his vote and voted to call witnesses. how that happened or why he suddenly changed with no idea we might get an idea when they finally break up any comes out to face the media but that was a huge surprise. so allan right now there's still work out they have adjourned are still working out some of these details i assume on what they're going to do and

with witnesses next but clearly i think we can say the bottom line is this just got a much longer process it just became a much longer process right this is not going to be over any time soon by the sound of it. no that's right we were thinking that perhaps would be done by the end of business and saturday that's not going to happen it's going to take a bit longer than that possibly a week might take as much as we might not see it tomorrow which is sunday here in the united states then monday is a federal holiday it's president's day so there's all sorts of things that no start building into this and it's not jimmy raskin sitting down with donald trump's lawyer saying well i'll give you this if you give me that that's not how this works it is chuck schumer who is the leader of the democrats in the senate sitting down with mitch mcconnell and the teams and i'm sure in mitch mcconnell's team there will be people like ted cruz and mike lee who are big supporters of donald trump and also actually our constitutional lawyers and they will be sitting saying whoa

is this going to work how we're going to get this done we want to get this done quickly another thing that i've been really interested in and it's hard to judge is that at camp david at the moment normally just don't pennsylvania avenue at the white house is joe biden he's over at camp david this weekend what's he thinking as he's watching this he really wanted to get this done quickly because he's got a big legislative agenda and as we all know honeymoon's for presidents are very very short he wants to get a 1.9 trillion corporate relief bill pushed through both houses he wants to get a new immigration bill up on to capitol hill there are other things including infrastructure that he wants to deal with within the 1st 6 months all of this could just be gummed up and slowed up because this is going to take slightly longer than everyone expected but the democrats obviously believe that this is important that they need to do this because one they think they don't trump has to be held to account and to the doing it for the history books as well the doing this to tell

a donor marker jimmy raskin years that he said this is not being driven by hate it's been driven by a desire to make sure that they make the republic of the united states better some people and would argue with that but that seems to be the driver for the democrats at least even if you think it is misguided. allan it's quite significant now that we've seen as you mentioned some prominent people like lindsey graham a prominent republican senator vote. to to go along with what the impeachment house managers wanted in the impeachment managers wanted which was to call witnesses does this without asking you to look too deeply into your crystal ball though you've been pretty good at it so far but does this say anything can we make any if not assumptions and the. can we start to be a little bit cautious about where some of the republican senators stand right now

is this an indication some of them may be having 2nd thoughts. if you've got the likes of bill kennedy from louisiana to vote for witnesses then i would possibly said maybe but we have from mitch mcconnell before proceeding started a you obviously thought there were going to be a call for witnesses because he said on the balance of probability he doesn't think that the democrats have made the case therefore he will vote to acquit this is the same mitch mcconnell so this has been a surprise for him to do this to be a vote of conscience. i think so and i think it was a surprise as i say that they were debating until the last possible minute about whether or not they should call witnesses clearly they decided that this was something that they wanted to do so mitch mcconnell just before everyone went and said yeah i'm going to vote to acquit if you do not get mitch mcconnell on a vote of conscience and remember his wife is elaine chao no you're thinking of had

that name before nor that name she was donald trump's transport secretary she was in position from almost day one of the administration she was one of the few cabinet secretaries who lasted all the way through and she resigned after january the 6th because of what she saw and saw if mitch mcconnell was a vote of conscience and you thought if they can flip him then maybe there's a chance they might get more votes but they're still going to fall short of the 17 that they need you thought there was a possibility but by him coming out this morning and saying no no i'm i'm going to vote for a quit you would have thought the year that this isn't going to happen do i think done better than i was it before this. spoke that was before this vote i guess we have no reason to believe that his position has changed since he spoke this morning. no i spoke to the person i was speaking to close to the democrats i was i was saying give me the idea of the thinking and the one of the reasons that the

thought of not calling witnesses is they didn't actually see much point in it because they said look every senator in this building knows what donald trump did the nor the timescale we know that he didn't send reinforcements for more than 2 hours he knew that my parents was at risk and still didn't do anything about it in fact tweeted out that mike pence had failed to do his duty. and they know all of this and they've heard the evidence and they've seen the video and they understand the timeline but they're still going to vote to acquit. so what's the point of calling witnesses and slowing this whole process but clearly the house impeachment managers have decided to hold on a 2nd this is actually quite significant this is quite important and this isn't just about laying this evidence as andy was saying this isn't just about laying this evidence in front of senators this is about learning this evidence in front of the american people because there are still many people who are supporters who believe that this is a whole misguided process and the idea of trying to impeach someone after they've

left office is just ridiculous the you know and to donald trump's lawyer said this is driven by hatred they are worried that he may run again in 4 years that hasn't been entirely ruled out but they are worried about the power that don't trump has over the public and party and that he could come back and they will be in the minority in 4 years. and so jimmy raskin and the others have decided clearly look this is something we need to address and put this in front of the american people so the see more of the evidence all right thanks so much allan let's take the stanley gallacher let's go back to west palm beach in florida and andy is there any universe in which the republicans watching this is not donald trump could be thinking that is. in any way beneficial to have this process dragged out to have more witnesses come and testify before the senators or is it really does it really

all add up to more risk of more senators flipping with time. i mean it's a good question sammy i think the former president will be deeply unhappy with this dramatic development but it's important to note that this in some ways is being driven forward by 2 key republican senator lindsey graham and jamie herrera butler the republican politician from washington state who relayed the conversation between mccarthy and the presidents in which the former president appeared to have side sided with the rioters and she was on social media last night saying look at some my fellow republicans if you have any more information about this that time is now so she clearly wants these questions answered and she's become going to become a national figure if he does take to the witness stand in this 2nd pietschmann trial and senator lindsey graham i mean this is someone we did not expect to vote in favor of bringing forward witnesses in this 2nd impeachment trial he is someone

who has been extremely close to the president through the last 4 years although he swayed backwards and forwards remember lindsey graham was the man who stood on the floor of the senate on january the 6th and said i'm out i've had it with this you know this was the president's fall i'm done and here he is back again. slowly back to the president walking back all those comments and then this surprise vote so this is an extremely dramatic development and i think it is important to note that it is easy to keep republicans as well as people like mitt romney and and several others that are in some ways driving this forward they want these questions to be answered because they are important questions that weren't really answered throughout this impeachment trial what did the president know when did he know it did he know his former vice president was in serious danger and the former vice president's family i think there are republicans watching this who think that they need those questions answered and i think as well honestly that the american people

need these questions answered because the thing we forget in all of this impeachment 2nd impeachment trial is that 5. well died that is something that hasn't been spoken about a great deal and i think the families of those people that died would want these questions answered as well what did the president know when did he know it and what did he do about it this is changed everything it's changed everything for former president donald trump who i'm sure was counting on this entire process being over today and then being able to say look this was another witch hunt again i was acquitted it's time to move on but this is a man who also casts a very long shadow over this party he frankly frightens many sitting republicans who are scared to cross him because they may get pro trump politicians running against them in their home states because donald trump still got over 70000000 votes in november the presidential election so a dramatic turn but i think for the democrats

a necessary turn given the information we've had about that phone call or several phone calls particularly the one between leader mccarthy and the former president don trump in which donald trump said well apparently the people storming the people's house cared more about the election than you do in which it in which allegedly the reply from mccarthy was an extremely rude answer saying well who the hell do you think you're talking to these are questions that need to be answered and i think the democrats really want this on historical record but a dramatic turn indeed i can only imagine what's going on america right now and you made a good point there that this is being driven this surprisingly shall we say turn of events visibly calling witnesses is being driven because of key republican figures the reports about what her bottle a member of congress may have overheard who is a republican. what is the calculation there what is the thinking on that side of

the republican party do they really think the chance that donald trump can be eliminated or there is this something else at play here because as you said he's still has the poll show he still has a lot of support within the republican party. i think the context of this whole trial the bigger wider picture is what is the future of the republican party is it with donald trump is it with trump ism or is it a more conservative moderate party that some want it to be the fractures are already showing. but what trump's defense lawyers will say is look what herrera butler is saying is just hearsay she's telling you she heard from someone else blah blah blah but if she takes the stand and she is under oath that changes the game because it's not that hard for these people to find phone records find times these conversations will happen and if kevin mccarthy takes us that these are also going to be under oath this is a game changing scenario right now because this isn't

a fact of the american public being shown videos of democrats saying fight for this and fight for that these are real people who were there who lived through january the 6th and actually heard and will have records of conversations made between republicans and the former president donald trump so a dramatic turn that i'm sure all. trumps defense team will be deeply unhappy about you saw how his lawyer acted there saying if you want to call up 2 witnesses out call of 200 just gum up the works for ever but for the democrats i think this is about getting all of this in historical context getting it on record because i think we live in an age now where horrible things happen and we've all become quite numb to it the events of generally the 6 seem to just fade away within a few days but this was an insurrection on the people's house the 1st one in more than 200 years that is significant and as we watch these videos pour out the new videos pour out i think it's a good reminder for people of what actually happened and how close this democracy

came to really being attacked undermined not just in the eyes of the american people but in the eyes of the entire world as well. all right thanks so much and the gallacher ballots go back to alan fischer is watching things for us. in capitol hill in washington d.c. what's happened now i understand there's been a new development alan. lindsey graham has has come out of the chamber and i've spoken to fox news now i'm paraphrasing here because this is being passed on by a 3rd party and apparently what he said was that when he realized what was going on in the they were going to call witnesses he decided to change his vote because it's his intention that he wants to call witnesses in retaliation and among the witnesses he says he's going to call our members of the f.b.i. because he believes apparently in this conspiracy theory that has been circulating in the far reaches of the web that the f.b.i. were essentially stood down on the 6th of january by nancy pelosi so that the more

when they were coming to capitol hill would be able to take over very easily indeed so it's clear that he wants to subpoena people from the f.b.i. and also nancy pelosi herself and any documents that they can it's an interesting take. not one i think might be successful with the senate apparently there were some words between ron johnson who is a big supporter of donald trump and mitt romney who is also a republican but has been critical of of donald trump there were some words between them on the senate floor because mitt romney voted to have witnesses as well just on a technical note the senate was meant to be in recess next week so this actually doesn't stop the actual data the work of the senate and it may well be that they might have to come back at some point in the coming 7 days to do the work of the impeachment rather than their day to day business work as well but you have to jump in here if i can because you said something really interesting there allan i mean if that's

the narrative coming from lindsey graham as to why he voted for impeachment is there a split between i mean i i take it team lawyers of donald trump still think it's not in their interest they won't get anything good about calling even if they do call more witnesses you know is there a split within the republican camp as to the usefulness of of calling more witnesses now. well look there's been a tension in don't chance a legal team for a number of days and to the extent we're. up until just before they gave evidence to the senate on friday morning it was unsure which order they would go because 2 of the lawyers shown and caster were arguing about who was actually the lead lawyer apparently they've shown thought about leaving the entire team but was according to the new york times convinced to stay by

a phone call to donald trump realizing how bad that would look if one of his attorneys who was given the job pretty late suddenly ended up walking away so there are still those tensions among the defense team there will be a concern among republicans about who needs to be called to give evidence because if they call kevin mccarthy who is the leader of the republicans in the house and he is the poorest under or with you can't lie you've got to tell the truth exactly what happened and that's part of the idea of getting also other people to give evidence as well because if you say well i never said and you say all done we've got 5 people that see you dead are they then committing perjury by lying under oath really just raises all the stakes now we know that members of the republican party in the senate have been helping the chump team with their presentation ted cruz among them mike lee among them to lawyers who are just wholly as well who are big

supporters of donald trump who. perhaps have got ambitions of running in 2024 for the republican nomination so want to be seen very much on the side of the base and even though they're meant to be impartial jurors that impartial jurors in quotes they have been consulting with donald trump's defense team so there are all sorts of fractures and breaks and. disputes going on in the team and quite how it manifests itself when it comes to the call for witnesses perhaps that will become clearer over the coming hours. all right thanks so much alan fischer that was just pause for a bit and remind ourselves might be useful do this right now what's been happening in the last few days don trump is accused of inciting an insurrection is lawyer says he's innocent and it's the democrats who are waging

a witch hunt house impeachment managers say it's anything but they presented never before seen footage of the capitol hill attack on january the 6th the c.c.t.v. videos show top politicians like mike pence house speaker nancy pelosi and mitt romney fleeing as the riots this warmed the building neither side denies the siege happened but the war of words inside the senate has been over whether it was trump's words that were to blame this impeachment is completely divorced from the facts the evidence and the interests of the american people the president's remarks explicitly encourage those in attendance to exercise their rights to peacefully and. donald trump tells a crowd as he did under a 6 fight like now where you're not going to have a country anymore he meant for them to fight like hell.

january 6th speech did not cause the riots the president did not cause the riots in either explicitly or implicitly encourage the use of violence or lawless action the attack was done for donald trump at his instructions and to fulfill his wishes the due process part should be enough to give anybody who loves our constitution and loves our country great pause to do anything but acquit donald trump if you think this is not impeachable what is. what would be what is impeachable conduct if not this. let's welcome claire finkelstein professor of law and philosophy at the university of pennsylvania she joins us now from philadelphia good to have you with us we've never had a former president impeached before how uncharted now is this turn which the senate

has taken on calling witnesses. well there have been witnesses and impeachment trials before but what's unusual here is that the last time donald trump was impeached and tried in the senate it was impossible to call witnesses so this is something that happened in the house last time because the democrats were in the majority in the house but not in the senate and now we have an opportunity for the senate to hear witnesses in an absolutely extraordinary case involving an accusation of inciting insurrection but a sitting president something that we have never seen before in the country so it's more the unusual nature of the charges and now the fact that after more than 4 years of republicans in the senate being able to cover for donald trump they no longer can because the democrats are now in the majority and have the opportunity

to put on witnesses to bring them before the senate that would put senators in a very difficult position because they the g.o.p. senators have been trying very very hard to keep the full horror of what donald trump hasn't inflicted on the country from coming to light and they will now have to face the american people with witnesses who will talk about what donald trump was actually saying and doing on that fateful day from a legal perspective is this going to come down to a vote on the witness by witness to decide who gets to call who. that's a very good question my guess is that that would not be a good look for house managers or for democrats in the senate because of course the witness list with then be very solenn to towards the towards the side of those who

want to convict donald trump so it seems more likely to me and more even handed that what would happen is each side would get a certain number of witnesses the democrats here absolutely have to allow the defense team to call witnesses that they feel will be favorable to their case otherwise it will simply appear that the democrats are railroading a certain result through so i expect that they will be fairly even handed in allowing each side to call their own witnesses and that would be appropriate the question is who the defense team will want to claw because they will be under oath and if kevin mccarthy takes the stand to rebut what congresswoman herrera is likely to say namely she will testify to the

conversation that she heard between kevin mccarthy and donald trump if kevin mccarthy then takes the stand and denies it that will be an extremely difficult situation for the senate to be placed and so i think that kevin mccarthy will be in a difficult position he almost has to take the stand now and in fact defend the defense team almost has to call him to rebut what congresswoman herrera will say there should then be other witnesses and in fact one witness will probably lead to another one of the big questions in my mind is whether or not any of the insurrectionists who said that they were inspired by donald trump and were awaiting his instructions because such as jessica walk ins or edward mcconnell both of whom have been charged with conspiracy and the question is how broad does that conspiracy.