only locked up that said i sent another message but i didn't receive a response. to a. gang to. bring him to buy in from the prison. to think. this is a quick look at headlines here on al-jazeera and social media giant facebook says it's banned me amounts military from using its platforms the firm says it is a necessary response to this month's can there is a heavy police presence in yangon where some marches have been arrested. scott hietala has been monitoring developments from bangkok march about a 1000 people in yangon and there are some of the antic who protesters are on the fringes of that they are obviously not happy with what the message was being sent from the others so there were some scuffles as well there's been some photographic

evidence stills of some of those who support the military with knives and sharp implements so that is obviously a concern a thing no reports of major classes just more described as scuffles but again this is something we haven't really seen over the last several weeks there have been some scuffles but nothing to this degree china's president xi jinping says the country has created a miracle by eradicating poverty nationwide he said almost 100000000 people in rural areas have been helped by the campaign it is a gold beijing aimed to achieve. trials of johnson and johnson's one short coated 19 vaccine have shown it's highly effective against severe cases the product is also proving effective against new a variant is yet to be approved for use. and. say u.s. regulators are testing its new 1000 vaccine against a variant prevalent in south africa the strain is considered one of the more contagious because if some of the blocking action of antibodies in this means it

has reduced the efficacy of the current lineup of seeds and is considering using it as a booster all combining it with its original shot. the international committee has named the australian city of britain as the preferred candidate to who see 2032 olympic games this if you will now into talks with bid organizers although i.o.c. president thomas back clarified that no final decision has yet been made. will take place before bridgeman is officially declared the winner which could be as soon as july. israel has stopped the sale of local fish following an oil spill that's left tons of tar across its coast in southern lebanon a greek oil tanker company denies that it is responsible for the country's nature and parks with already says it's one of the worst ecological disasters on record here today headlines more news here on ars or right after inside story. what should americans be thinking and doing right now it should be about ideas they

don't care about their work is all they care about is making money fine it's not going to be left out of the colleagues who are in the bloated defense budget to be cutting the bottom line on us politics and policies and their effect on the world on al-jazeera. covered $9000.00 vaccines are rolled out around the world some countries are issuing vaccinations for to the kids and lifting restrictions for those who had a jab but will those who are vaccinated be left out as societies reopened this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm going to enjoy him cope with 1000 vaccination drives are in full swing in many countries some have begun issuing certificates for people to prove they perceive the shots it's raising concerns about potential

discrimination nearly half of israel's population has received at least one dose of the vaccine the government is reopening hotels and gems but only to people with a so-called green pass to show they're either fully vaccinated or have recovered from cope and 1000 public health experts are worried about excluding those who are waiting to receive a shot or can't be vaccinated due to medical or other reasons you can. divide between 2 population if there is a good medical reason. so for example if someone was exposed to. someone infected and these vaccinated leave you don't need to stay told that's ok that's a medical decision a british government review is looking at whether vaccine certificates could help to ease lock down measures faster the prime minister says there are many ethical and privacy challenges to work through. we could be discriminate treat against people who for whatever reason can't have the vaccine them or the reasons medical

reasons why people a cop have. difficulties that they you know the people some people may genuinely refuse to have one out i think that's a mistake of the everybody should have a vaccine but we need to thrash lissa many countries are preparing to create so-called travel bubbles for people who can prove they've been vaccinated greece israel and cyprus have agreed to recognize each other's vaccines or to fits those who have them will enjoy unrestricted travel greece is pushing for a similar arrangement across the european union but france and germany remain wary they've raised concerns over a 2 tier system where some can travel and others can't many countries are moving towards favoring those who've been vaccinated but that has dropped quarantine requirements while hungary is considering allowing them to be exempt from curfews. alright let's bring in our guests in reading dr simon clarke associate professor in

cellular microbiology at the university of reading in doha dr patrick tang division chief of pathology sciences at sidra medicine and in oxford dr dominic wilkinson director of medical ethics at the well hero center for practical ethics at the university of oxford welcome to the program patrick let me start with you do you believe that vaccine certificates are going to become the norm. and it's quite likely that different countries or different businesses might implement some form of vaccine efficacy or vaccines or to pick it in order to be able to certify that certain people are immune and to be able to have more efficiencies in their business isn't travel in protecting some of their critical insert infrastructure simon it's unclear at this stage if any of the covered $1000.00 vaccines that are out there actually prevent transmission of coven 1000

with that in mind is it too early to be issuing vaccines certificates well i think if they're issued with the expectation the priest of vaccination is proof of being able to transmit the virus then that's that it is to the we're beginning to get good evidence with the pfizer vaccine that could be some protection against transmission but i think. they haven't it's less good with the ox with astra zeneca vaccine particularly if somebody doesn't have city so asymptomatic transmission and that could account for a fair proportion of the transmission really is the the potential problem dominick i saw you nodding along to some of what simon was saying just there that you want to jump in. when i did it i think now is the time for us to be talking about

banks he said occasion and because the evidence he's ease of mooching and because they've seen programs rolling out i think is a very. of these incentives for countries to have to think about when they can use that x. is to be good for vets in hospitals as a way to move towards more normal life patrick what would vaccine certificates mean for those who would get them. so i think that it would mean very different things for different countries and different businesses that are going to utilize this because now there's many it is a very complicated topic and i think sometimes we simplify it too much because you know we we know that the. back scenes are not 100 percent of the cases that the tests that we use to determine whether someone's a near or not are not 100 percent accurate so so it all depends on why

and how do we use these certificates and and how that's going to help us get back to like a normal way of living and restore our economy simon are we not talking about the real possibility at some point that we could see discrimination come into play with vaccine certificates i'm talking about perhaps a 2 tiered system of access for the haves and the have nots well that's a distinct possibility i mean in the u.k. there is mooching evidence that certain groups in the population are more reluctant to have the vaccine well perhaps even to have less access to it so anything about that would fall in there i think our discrimination noles potentially so yeah it's a real possibility i don't want to be full of trying to scuff. dominic there's an ethical debate that's been brewing for some time around this issue of vaccines certificates could you just talk us through some of the issues at play here that

are being debated ok so the basic ethical argument in favor of benzene hospitals is that it's justified to restrict people's freedom of movement their freedom of association if normal everyday freedoms to to reduce transmission of the virus and to prevent a series of cases taking out hospitals. but is somebody easier. if it is the case that is immunity and they were very much reduced chance of spreading the virus in that case full restricting the individual disappears and then it becomes a question of is it justified to restrict that individual i think there are 2 obvious series of implementation of the goods and. one is in terms of quarantine and when travelling between countries if many countries currently have. periods of

compulsory quarantine but by long periods of considerable expense if somebody had for example 2 doses of an appropriate bank scene at an appropriate time i think there's a strong case that they should. not really not be required to have such long. also. cases of reply was for self isolation after contact with somebody who's had a virus if somebody has had to make the net again looks like a place where if they should eventually be exempt from the world health organization has urged caution on vaccine passports it's formed a smart vaccination certificate consortium it seeking to develop a common digital vaccines are difficult that will be recognized by everyone that will mean creating a global standard for vaccine recognition and coordinating the efforts of national governments but the w.h.o. has also said that for the time being it opposes the introduction of vaccine passports allowing unrestricted travel it said there isn't enough information yet on how effectively vaccinations can reduce transmission of the virus patrick from

your vantage point what role is the w.h.o. ultimately going to be playing when it comes to standardizing all of this when it comes to the vaccine certificates. i think that they're going to have a hard time controlling all the individual countries and individual countries making their own rules 'd for their own people and their own standards for whether people mean quarantine or not after traveling so i think if they don't come up with something that's acceptable it's in lots of different countries the all the different countries you know make their own laws and and i think that the thing is there's not there's never going to be a perfect system for doing that isn't that the back scenes are not perfect that you could get one back team that has a higher rate of ethic and you get different backing that has a lower rate of ethic and so there's never going to be a fully equipped december fully perfect system but i think for practicality that

this is something many countries are going to adopt in and i think one of the things that you mentioned with whether it could be used for travel or travel is a very specific application but there's a lot of other reasons why it could be used within that country or within a certain region you know that i work in a hospital is important that we know that people entering the hospital are don't have hope it or that they're immune to kill that we could save money by not having to test them so that's not the practical reason that can be applied in different situations maybe not just for travel and then each country might have their own rules too because some countries might not have it must quality and how they distribute back they might have a higher rate of infection in their countries so then it would be ok for them to implement post travel. quarantine so that people that are mean could come back and not be quarantined in their country simon look to me like you want to jump in and

add to what patrick was saying please go ahead i was not alone because i agree with everything i said i think the world health organization if it comes up with a set. of values. it would be just that it would be a starting place for lots of other countries to to build on amends and they will come up with their own ideas about what they think suits them best and it always needs to remember that none of these vaccines is 100 percent effective and also we don't know what it takes what it meant means to be. immune to cave it 1000 we don't know what we call the correlates of protection what they are so if you measure a blood sample from somebody we don't really know. how what we measure relates to whether or not they're immune so there's a huge amount of uncertainty in this dominick how concerned are you about the fact

that governments will or won't be able to properly protect the health data those who get the vaccine and have these are difficult going forward while it. i think. thinking about vaccine passports we can look to other types of said dictation or other types of information so one of these analogies is regular passports we very familiar with regular passports which have to be secure in the data that it is that's held within them and that they need to be free from from being easily copied or. having shrewd and in terms of health information and the information that's contained within a bank what is not what most people would think of as it seems that it helps them a shoe and so it's not revealing somebodies business rico it's revealing whether or not it had a bank scenes and that kind of concern about the safety of security of

health information might not be so patrick you had mentioned the issue of travel going forward just a few minutes back so i want to follow up with you about that issue if we're talking about issuing vaccines certificates for travel or vaccine passports as some may call them how would countries go about standardizing criteria for vaccine certificates what i mean is what if you've taken the vaccine that's been approved in one country and then you wish to travel to another country where there's another vaccine that's been that's been approved for use only one vaccine that doesn't it doesn't match with the with the vaccine that's been approved in your country how will that issue be dealt with. well i think you brought up an excellent point that this is a very complex issue and and you know you're right about that one country may not accept the vaccine from another country or where they might not accept this or

religiosity from another country or even from another look we're sure that's not it by them so because of all of these things every country is probably going to be a little bit on their own that if i'm in this country and i got back city in this country where i got tested in this country then then that would allow me to become . to be able ovoid post travel quarantine when i come back to my home country because that's where i was vaccinated that's where i may have been tested and that's where there's a record of me become having been active before so i think it might and so then your certificate may not apply in another country because there is an agreement on on how we do that testing which backings work which is there except it as proof of this i mean this is a potentially very complicating factor is it not i mean order for something like this to really work when it comes to travel to lots of different places going

forward protocols and some form of standardization would need to be agreed upon right. well yes it does but of course governments sometimes or some governments i should say have a tendency to insist on their way or the highway so. they some of them will not be very interested in listening to what for example the world health organization has to say i couldn't visit circumstances where some countries will say this is what we want this is what we expect incoming visitors to have it terms of testing and or a vaccine and if you don't like it you can come in so i do think that while standardize ation is desirable i think there are certain countries who will insist on doing it their own way dominic there's growing fears that this kind of documentation could exclude or discriminate against those who've been left most vulnerable so far by the pandemic what do you say to that. one of the interesting

things about vaccine passports in countries that have deliberately chosen to vaccinate 1st those individuals who are most vulnerable and most affected by the pandemic is that actually vaccine. to improve the quality and to redress some of the inequality so for example those who are in older age groups you who are clinically vulnerable as you'd have had 1st ect is that a vaccine will potentially have 1st access to some of the freedoms that might go along with that but of course there are some people who are going to miss that for example add those 2. young or are unable to have a better seen for asked for medical reasons will have chosen not to have an a in and that i think he's raised a different ethical issue because of course if somebody chooses not to have a messy then they choose to take on board the consequences of their. patrick what about the fact that we don't yet know how long the effects of the vaccine will last

i mean how much would that complicate this at some point what would proof of boosters potentially be required i think the data is coming out that you know the immunity can't last quite long from natural infection at least 9 months from from earliest infections that we have and that from the vaccines we should expect similar level durations of immunity and if we compare it to either vaccine problem that at least 6 months if not longer so so i think what you said is probably going to happen where we're going to have it stirs or we're going to have to have some kind of testing to ensure that we still have a certain degree of immunity but it is simon said before we don't really know even if you were tested that whether you know your you have antibodies that you're necessarily need so that all of the measures that we have are inaccurate so so i

think if whatever system we implement we have to accept some degree of inaccuracy in there and but you know we can't have a perfect system you have to have something that's just good enough so that we can return just some semblance of normal life dominic look to me like you wanted to add to that please go ahead. well i think one of the thing that took many is we don't know how long immunity will last attempts at lanes or what will happen in what we used to the idea that these is a time limited and it seems quite possible that banks in hospitals will also be at and rick eventually rehabilitation or evidence. that they might need to be renewed if in 6 months time we find that that immunity is longer lasting well we don't know that immunity is going to last 6 months 12 months 2 years yet that

doesn't mean that in the next 6 months we have to just wait and. and you know i someone i want to talk for a moment about the effect that this could have in the long term i mean do you foresee that having to get these certificates or having these certificates issued will encourage more people to get vaccinated i'm talking specifically about people who might either be hesitant to get the vaccine or might just be afraid to get the vaccine right now and want to wait a little bit longer i think that for travel. i think the effect on that would be small that that would be something but i don't think it would be huge i think the big. plus it's if you stop freeing up society if you say to people you can go to the cinema restaurant with the after a football match or whatever but only if you have if you've been vaccinated that's where the biggest driver of vaccination will come from i think patrick let me pick

up on a point that dominic was making earlier about those who may not be able to get the vaccine for one reason or another perhaps a health reason maybe they have allergies or underlying health conditions i mean what happens to them in a scenario like this where more and more people are being encouraged to get the vaccine and would get these vaccines are difficult that would either allow them to reenter businesses or sectors of society or to travel. i think this is a difficult problem to address them and there's going to be at least in term here is where there's going to be found in a quality for for people that have found a reason why they cannot get the vaccine but as a ward more people become vaccinated and more and more people become immune because of natural infection then that will create that environment of herd immunity where where these people can then again have them of their freedoms without having to be acting or be exposed so so i think that didn't matter i'm and

eventually you know we know that the pandemic benchley and we know that benchley will get back to normal it's just a matter of time and you know some people are not it's not going to quote from in that interim period dominick i saw you nodding along with like you want to jump in please go ahead you know i think that's right i think some people concerned about that seem possible because they have this idea is that this is going to be a penman a change to our ability to move around unless we provide these sort of medical certificates because we don't know with what's going to happen with her in a virus even a year or 2 years or 5 years time but i think it's reasonable to assume that this is the phenomena of these. are a short term measure there a way to get from here in the penny to. endemic free free free world simon if more countries start requiring vaccine certificates or if they

start offering vaccine passports isn't this essentially making it or making the vaccine mandatory. not necessarily full travel if that's that's what they're needed for but again i come back to my point that why the participation it's the last man in the tree so yeah i can see that unless governments legislate to prevent organizations of any sort insisting long vaccine possible bit like a say at a restaurant or of the exxon or sports ground and then yes they legislate against them insisting on seeing that possible then they will become. the vaccine will become compulsory effectively dominic around the world there are large inequities when it comes to the vaccine and who has access to it i mean going forward how our government's going to guarantee that vaccine certificates or passports will be fair

well i think that there are very serious issues and it to do with global inequality in banks in distribution and mike is in about then and not about that those who travel really full those who do have relatively fortunate it's a it's about a much more serious issues in the. lives and illness and i think that is the reason why nobody did needs to be and there already is and there needs to be more attention to how can we distribute and is back seen as quickly as possible to all of those around the world to who would want in a benefit from it patrick just very quickly only have about 45 seconds left how about the fact that new strains are emerging right now is this the right time to be rolling out certificates while all this is happening. i think adventure that handover is going to end and what we can control is how long it takes people we get

back to a normal state so i think anything that we do to bring back normalcy is going to be helpful so this may not be a perfect solution there might be new variants coming out but then just we just need to tackle those problems as they come along just like you know quality we've got to tackle that and new variants come out and then we have to develop new vaccines that we shouldn't try to wait for this perfect system and hijack this whole initiative because of all these different things we just happen to us them as weak as they come along just like everything else all right we run out of times we're going to leave the conversation there thanks so much to all our guest dr simon clark dr patrick tang and dr dominick wilkinson and thank you for watching you can watch this and our previous programs any time by visiting our website at 0 dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story from a mom a gentleman the whole team here i for now thank. you

. jumped into the story there is a lot going on in this and julian and global community when i talk about the misinformation i think we all want to feed that we can be part of the debate don't ever take anybody's one word because there's always a difference when no topic is off the table we have been disconnected from our land we have been disconnected from who we are good enough to heed the new in the to be part of today's discussion this dream on out is there. discover a world of difference. determination i mean something about when we need we are moving to. freedom will climb this keep us in a shop so just put it on the 16 people then the corruption and go you can

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