he's been killed in benghazi this is of course after the peace deal between the rival factions last month which formed an interim government's sunny space x. that is a long musk's aerospace company says it has sent dozens of stunning satellites above the earth to support internet systems the satellites were carried into space by the company's own rocket the falcon 9 from cape canaveral in florida a move that follows the rockets successful landing on a ship at sea. this is al jazeera and these are the headlines israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says prospects for retaining a right wing coalition government are looking uncertain a small palestinian israeli party is projected to win 5 seats in the israeli knesset could break the deadlock or force it has more from jerusalem the key development since the exit polls were were released as the polls closed and they've

you know the numbers have been changing has been the entry into the parliament the crossing of the threshold by this small offshoot of the arab joint list the ram party or the united arab list led by months or a bus and now his philosophy is conservative islamist he has been moving his party though the last 12 months or so into a more pragmatic space in israeli politics talking about being open to engage with various parties especially if they offer promise to do what is necessary in the palestinians really sector because members of congress are visiting detention facilities for migrant children on the mexico border the reopening of some centers has caused a growing out crying after images revealed overcrowded makeshift conditions more than 15000 migrant children are in u.s. custody. britain wants to make it harder for refugees who enter the u.k.

illegally to apply for asylum secretary pretty detailed is proposing new legislation that would overhaul the u.k.'s asylum and system she says the reforms are designed to be fair to genuine asylum seekers was coming down on people traffickers the un says more than $300.00 bringing refugees are still unaccounted for after that massive fire at what is the world's largest refugee camp at least 15 people were killed in a camp that houses more than a 1000000 refugees from me in ma 45000 have lost their homes. the state television says the military has released more than 600 protesters arrested since last month's coup follows growing international pressure against the military regime local human rights group says at least 2000 people have been arrested in the military crackdown since last month once again those are the headlines on al-jazeera inside stories next.

under fire as it announces any of them for asylum seekers it says the goal is to crack down on illegal immigration critics say it's a breach of international law so how will this affect those who seek safety in the united kingdom this is the inside story. hello welcome to the program. it's been described as the biggest overhaul in the

u.k. asylum system in decades the government says it wants to stop people smugglers from bringing the thousands into the country illegally every year but those who advocate for migrant and refugee riots say the changes are unjust they insist refugees should not be punished for taking all available routes as they seek safety of the british government insist people should do all they can to enter the country through legal means and it will make it harder to obtain residency for those. shores illegally including limiting vet ability to sponsor family members and apply for benefits while asylum seekers who enter the ok legally we're now big given an immediate right to say well bring in our guests in a moment but 1st this report from nadine baba in london. well pretty patel is saying the aim of these proposals is to fight people smugglers and to save lives it

boils down to a 2 tier approach really the government saying that refugees who arrive here in the u.k. through what they call legal routes will be given direct access to the asylum system whereas so-called illegal arrivals people who often cross europe paid people smugglers to cross the english channel won't have the same rights it's understood the government wants to be able to troy for a period of around 6 months to send them to other countries before having to look at their asylum claims here in the u.k. . refugee rights groups are saying that there is nothing illegal about arriving here in the u.k. through any means the united nations has also cast doubts on the proposals the government here is saying that other governments will have a moral duty to cooperate but lots of critics are pointing out that a they won't be minded to and after breaks it the government here does not have

a right to send back refugees to the 1st e.u. country they arrived in and they're pointing out that it's the government's own moral duty to process asylum seekers of everyone who arrives on these shores it's not legislation yet so we don't know how far the government will push these controversial plans nadine barber for inside story. let's bring in our guest in london john campbell emeritus of anthropology and law so us university of london in brussels catherine willard secretary-general of the european council on refugees and excitements in oxford peter was a research in migration at oxford universities migration or observatory welcome to the program john the u.k. has always had laws governing migrants refugees and asylum seekers now the

government is talking about the biggest overhaul in asylum system why now. why now is because of bricks that once no one stay here a. winter went into effect and the end of december the year the united kingdom is no longer able to use the returns directives from the e.u. or the dublin transfers the result is that they're only able to deal with some seekers ok cathing the 1st reactions we got from different here were advice activists refugees agencies world wide is this is a divisive unfair lol how do you see it. so there are many problematic elements at 1st sight it does appear to contravene the refugee convention of mine to run as your knights highlights and conventions states quite clearly that people who arrive illegally nice folk who should not be penalized our state might not

impose penalties i think it's welcome that the u.k. is trying to increase resettlement places because refugees themselves and those of us working on the right to assign them argue strongly for safe and legal routes to reach protection however that can't be a substitute for a right pain it's not illegal to cross the border to see protection it's a fundamental right and that's just the nature of force displacement so that element him take you there is very problematic peter the 2 basic laws governing the issue of migrants refugees and asylum seekers are the 971 of the immigration rules now when you look at the numbers of the flow of migrants into the u.k. it's not really high compared to the 1015 years ago and this is leading many people to think this is a politically motivated decision by the government to show their own people that you know what we're not delivering our promise to take a tougher stance when it comes to people coming into our country. that's

a very old position because when we look at asylum seeking in the u.k. and we compare the numbers now they're actually a 3rd of what they were 20 years ago at the turn of the millennium we had over $100000.00 people claiming asylum in the k. per year now it's between $30.40 and we know that last year there were about $35000.00 people that claimed asylum in the u.k. and that was down 20 percent on the previous year 2019 so for the u.k. numbers are down when we broaden that and compare those numbers internationally and the numbers look even smaller the u.k. has accepted claims between 30 and 40000 in the last few years other e.u. countries like italy like spain like france and especially germany

a taken many tens of thousands more applications and many tens of thousands more refugees an international comparison the u.k. doesn't fare so well in the asylum that it grants to these people just marian to tell you please go ahead go ahead go ahead catherine this comes your 1st question roger right which is about why and then and for those of us outside the u.k. it does seem like a mystery in the sense that's a sign that the number of asylum seekers is not a historical rest just described and a clear majority of the writing in the u.k. are refugees so this is very much a manageable caseload 'd instead of investing in the asylum system and speeding up the station ranking prince sense of these people who are most of whom are refugees here sort of going down the route of some friends of the options and trying to prevent the pariah threatened or endangered trying to convince

a. another country today or external processing of asylum claims ideas that come up from time to time and that never work. john no one of the controversial aspects of the new reform is basically this whole notion about my asylum seekers filling in the applications in terms of the k. legally for their own up locations to be processed and their chances for staying in the ok to be higher but in reality you know and everybody knows this is not the way it works people are fleeing that persecution threat danger they're looking for freedom safety of of of their own life and most of the time 90 percent of the cases they have to cross illegally because this is the only way available to them it was 1st correctly the united kingdom and the european union also to be fair has closed off possible legal intrigue routes for seeking asylum and the most obvious sign of

this is the push backs on the eastern borders of the your peon union but also the boat sinking in the mediterranean as refugees are leaving libya and north africa peter now the case is basically going to be the following your arrival legally you would be removed sent where do we have any idea going to be an offshore facility like the australians did in the past. well that is the big question previously there was a possibility before bracks it when the u.k. was a part of the dublin scheme and that allowed us to transfer asylum seekers to other e.u. member states now we're no longer part of the e.u. we can't avail ourselves of that scheme instead to return asylum seekers to other safe countries we will have to enter into the spoke agreements bilateral agreements

with those specific countries or with the e.u. as a whole and so far there have been very few indications that progress has been made on those kinds of agreements historically we know that diplomatically those agreements a very difficult to hammer out because countries do not want to sat or asylum seekers so the big question is where can we return them you mentioned the idea of offshore processing there are 2 places mentioned last week gibraltar and the isle of man the leaders in those places have said they were not even consulted so there are really big questions about where these asylum seekers can be returned and john this is creating some concerns among many people all over the world which is basically the notion that in the meantime if the cases are going to be processed by the by the british government we're most likely going to have to

do with where to send those people are they going to stay in temporary shelters for military bases overseas that what happens in that in-between. well the united kingdom is obligated to under the refugee convention to treat these these asylum seekers fairly what's happened in the past months because of code that has been that thousands of people have been housed and hotels or military barracks across the united kingdom and there are serious problems of arisen from there including infections like of it but also inability to access their lawyers to make an asylum claim so this is this is clearly a problem which the home office failed to foresee. and because of its reliance are on shifting asylum applicants out to other regions outside of london where i where

they're relying upon private providers of housing catherine after the incident where the laws just refugee camp in which was briefed. was what was destroyed by fire there was a growing debate in the him particularly about the need to stop this whole idea about refugee camps old barracks where we should be relegating immigrants and this is about time to rethink the whole strategy it doesn't seem to be the case in the u.k. now. i think it would surprise to that you can also applies to the rest of europe the european union countries and that there are standards in the law for days provision of decent reception conditions for people who've applied to asylum so for a sign of such an it's a case of just implementing those standards that already exists and i think with what we're saying in the u.k. the subject of our discussion now some of these measures they're also counterproductive because if people are eventually granted assigned them then that

integration prospects hendo by having been detained in substandard conditions for long sometimes long periods of time i think similarly one of the headline measures that pretty protect us just and you're just saying that people who arrived. illegally or like not illegal to cross the border to sneak tashan but people who are arriving regularly may then have small crew terri a state and they won't be guaranteed permanent right to stay there have to reapply for their state those measures also dramatically optimally in integration outcomes and as well as creates a great stress and. suffering for people who are ready been traumatized because they're recognized as refugees ok and i think it's headed by the u.k. . create a culture of to terence but there is no pull factor in drawing people to the u.k.

this oppression. in the places that they're there from peter it's all about meeting some sort of benchmarks for any asylum seeker to be accepted into the u.k. however if you look at the provisions ocean now being proposed one of them says the law targets those who are travelling through a safe country they say that you have decided for a political reason to leave your country you've been smuggled into france for example and then from france you decide to go to the u.k. the u.k. government going to say what you know what france is a safe country should have stayed in france therefore you would be removed why are we punishing people just for this transit when the ideal would have been to corporate between the french and the and the u.k. to sort to sort out this whole problem. that's a very good question and the reality is that is nothing in the refugee convention that obliges asylum seekers to claim asylum in the 1st country in which they

arrive a really important point as well to bear in mind this is a very important point central to this debate is that there really are no ways of claiming asylum in the u.k. legally and that's for the simple reason to claim asylum in the u.k. you 1st have to reach the u.k. there's no asylum visa so what you must either do is arrive clandestinely perhaps by small boat crossing the english channel was stolen away in a lorry or by coming to the u.k. on a visa for some other purpose which is a student visa or tourism and then claiming asylum when you arrive now that will necessarily involve deception of the author or it is regarding the purpose of the move to the quay and so that is also technically illegal so the question is what

are the legal routes to which pretty patel is referring we have not seen the details yet john this is a new a brave new world in the sixty's or the seventy's europe was very compassionate in reaching out to. people all over the world now there is this whole idea that migrants are a danger to western democracy the xenophobic rhetoric has been prevailing do you see that as one of the main reasons why we are now targeting asylum seekers migrants particularly in europe. yes it's clearly clearly an issue and it's one that's been of growing concern but but it's allied with a number of other conservative concerns about the integrity of national citizens the maintenance of benefits and other rights for citizens. a whole a whole host of other issues which have never in in the united kingdom actually

been openly discussed and debated so what we're getting is a movement towards an increasingly conservative and restrictive agenda here in the united kingdom towards refugees and it's one which is closing down possibilities for asylum and for integration as the other speakers that have noted catherine. view saying that is champing here whites democracy of the rights of people who are seeking asylum to be respected what you see on the other hand is this disconnect on the one hand you say this on the other you're erecting fences you're supporting people just for this because they are not meeting those benchmarks human rights activists and refugees agencies all over the world what can they do internationally to rally international support for those people. i think we have to also can text your lines that it's the case that your case approaches based on so many many things so not least that the idea that there's disproportionate responsibility

being taken up by europe it's not the case 80000000 paper forcibly displaced and the bollocks majority of their 90 percent are in developing countries and then in many cases in the same major refugee hosting countries so i think it's also about shifting the narrative and explaining the reality of displacement and there is actually supporting people and i think we also need to. counter the argument that what the u.k. government is doing here is compliant and in conformity with international law and which is is not the case as we've discussed so during this program so the idea of i think global responsibility sharing is kate and that means every country should be doing its part but they raise a sort of a paradox in the u.k. and in the rest of europe as you say there is this increasing hostility in the political sphere but public opinion historically is becoming more moreover now if

we compare public opinion now to public opinion and 7 to sprints this greatest of hope both for offering protection to refugees but also to immigration law more widely so i think i'll put it political may just need to get in step prepared public's bitter is of this with for a breach of international. that's not really for me to say but it is true that serious questions have been raised about its compatibility with the un refugee convention of 951 in particular article 31 which states quite clearly migrants who arrive illegally if they come directly from a territory where their life to freedom is threatened and present themselves in good time and that that should not prejudice their asylum application so the lawyers will be very chain to get

a hold of the technical legal detail of these proposals and then we'll be able i dear of whether there is a direct contravention of our international treaty your answer you're absolutely right when you talk about those technical procedure that lawyers will have to look into to decide whether this is going to be a breach of international law or not but john when you look at this whole debate there's a difference between substance substantiating the claim for asylum and the other fact which is when you look at those pages about those people underneath somehow somehow somewhere buried the names of people who have decided to leave the country because they have been persecuted politically ethnically or religiously and because of this debate and because of these reforms they are most likely going to be sent back home sending them back home could mean death for many of them and this is what is lost in this whole debate politically speaking in the u.k.

government. is syria right that what the current proposals by pretty good tel are suggesting is it is it is a form that will make asylum seekers injure even more problems if indeed we follow the australian position of offshoring refugees as they are now doing in papua new guinea and in not they are under no roof in fact it is incredibly expensive to do this so there's a number of problems with this entire proposal one it may be illegal it probably isn't legal to it is extremely expensive last year the australian spent $1200000000.00 australian dollars to maintain its offshoring possibility. that was only detaining $300.00 refugees at the time. right so the cost is tremendous so there would be that would have been a expenditure of $4000000.00 australian dollars per person detained at that time at

the same time there are new numerous problems with the human rights of the system not being compliant with human rights obligations so for example there was inadequate unhygenic living conditions. there was a reports of sexual and physical abuse by staff at these detention centers there were inadequate medical and psychological treatment etc there's a lot of problems with any temp ashore in a minute catherine arabs please go ahead go ahead very very get i don't know i simply going to let one of the main obstacles about i dare is also a proponent related who stick her in that no country wants to expect at hosting such centers and in date perennially these ideas are proposed that in the u.k. debate in 2003 tony blair and the new labor government at that time was putting forward 7 a proposal the night usually stumble along this issue that no country is reeling host ok peter with the 2015 years of migrants into europe in member the debate was

about the need to restart under a set of the policy and they were all talking about a an effective humanitarian and safe policy among. what we were doing this debate about this this is going to give us an indication that this they haven't moved an inch towards establishing those goals. that's right those talks have stalled and now that the u.k. is out of the e.u. it won't be party to that future system other than by developing these new bilateral agreements which as we have seen historically diplomatically a very tough task indeed so it's really not clear exactly where the u.k. is moving on asylum but it seems to be ever further away from the policy ideas at a popular on the european mainland than in the e.u.

and i'm sure the debate will continue miffed when those who say that these are issues of national security and those who will continue to say this is the white for everyone to live a better life in a better world john campbell catherine willard and peter was thank you thank you for your insight and thank you for your time and thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com for word slash a jane's a story you can also join the conversation on twitter our hand there is a j. inside story from e. hashim amla and the entire team here in doha by for no.

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