as the government talks then confined to the pandemic but for nurse assistant florrie bullen getting her 2nd doe's means she's able to worry less about infecting her own family hot people i think would feed me but it feels like liberation day so now i can refocus and taking care of my patients i am happy a glimmer of hope she says in what otherwise appears a very desolate situation jim duggan al jazeera manila. i want you all deserve me still rob a reminder of our top stories a us police chief has testified against orders former officers who was accused of murdering george floyd on day 6 of the trial daria told the jury in minneapolis that don't show about broke rules on respecting the sanctity of life. it is my firm

belief that the one singular incident we will be judged forever on will be our use of force and so while it is absolutely imperative their officers go home at the end of their shift we want to ensure and ensure that our community members go home to and so sanctity of life is happily vital that that is the pillar for use of force we are oftentimes going to be the 1st ones to respond to someone who needs medical attention and and so we absolutely have a a duty to render that he'd. jordan's royal court says prince hamza been his saying has signed a letter pledging his allegiance to the king jordan's government accuse the former crown prince of trying to destabilize the country but he is under way on the biggest day of india's state assembly elections being seen as a measure of support for the party of prime minister do a dramatic day after a turbulent year. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says prosecutors in his

corruption trial which resume on monday are attempting a coup he's accused of bribery breach of trust and fraud while in office charges that he denies other will talks about reviving the 2050 nuclear deal will begin in australia in the coming hours representatives from the u.s. china germany russia the u.k. france as well as iran the gathering in vienna the death toll from flash floods and landslides added to the genre east timor has risen to at least 155 with dozens more missing rescuers are calling for more heavy equipment to help reach isolated communities north korea has become the 1st country to officially withdrawal from the take your olympics joe young says it wants to protect its southeastern covert 90 person and hopes in south korea that the july games could reinvigorate diplomatic tools you follow those stories on our website at al-jazeera dot com more news in half an hour studio b. unscripted is next. examining the impact of today's headlines it didn't matter if

you're rich or poor what your religion is if you are battling this and you're staring at it in the face and you're dealing with it setting the agenda for tomorrow's discussions with it or unfolding on capitol hill international filmmakers and world class journalists bring programs to inform and inspire you each and every one of us in the responsibility to change our place in place for them in a barn al-jazeera. biology and anthropology and genetics is really founded in a racist ideology my name's adam rather 3rd i'm a geneticist or broadcaster i will inevitably get loads of racism i'm being called a racist because i'm talking about race and yeah i'm by 16 i'm an economist once i'm political candidate and activist. unfortunately cove it could just be a dress rehearsal for something much where. potentially other pandemics and things

that can go wrong science is political and always has been political and he say it's not you haven't been paying attention for the last 500. so i've been dying to ask you there in respect of how to argue with a racist how do you argue with a racist and yeah. i sometimes worry that that title is a little weird for what the book actually sets out to do. and the point is if you structure your your arguments with with facts and with science and with history then these are tools which are very clearly anti racist in their in their nature nor a political and science isn't a moral it does inherently have a political stance because it's done by people and so you know i sometimes think that the conversation gets distracted by talking about white supremacists or active

neo nazis and you know there's plenty of them around but in fact i'm more sort of concerned with talking to people who say who effectively have racist views or say things which are effectively racist without really knowing it because it's built in race and racism is built into our society when i was writing a lot of younger people were saying to me. you know i wish i had this when i'm in the pub when i'm sitting around. the dinner table the thanksgiving table i'm talking point does to my uncle or someone who says something which is why you know won't black people better at sprinting or well you know on jewish people more intelligence and that's what i wanted to do is to say well why are these stereotypes correct what is the data where are you getting that information from and b. out of those those stereotypes relate to how we understand history and how we understand you know historical persecution zoie storable racisms and in almost all cases what

turns out to be the case is one the data is probably not true and to the stereotypes the rooted in in history and says you know that you know you've got a better argument i'm going to disagree with you to some extent because while i find no pixie for helpful when i was campaigning and knocking on thousands of doors actually facts don't seem to work that well when you have conversations with people . because people always seem to find another 5 told they all you know they just won't necessarily believe you what did weigh was emotions animation and connection and then bringing in some facts i when like you know i've been doing stats for many years as you know whether it be some of the stuff i did for b.b.c. looking into whether we'd have a prime minister and finding that you know black kids who have to work 12 times as hard than a white stay educated and 90 times as hard as the y.

privately educated to become prime minister you know but for the most part people didn't really take that aim what they did take in was stories of you know my great grandmother being part of the british working costs or oh yeah i went to that school too and having a connection with a teacher. and then building the foundation of connection and then trying to bring in like maybe some more scientific arguments. did you learn the only joran we had when you were going door to door yeah what was it like it was really fun i have to say i really enjoyed doing ok i mean people might find that crazy people actually do you want to have political conversations and when they don't they make it really clear so. you know you can back off quite quickly the thing that i found is it's very rare that someone's race is to your face i mean it did happen it was very rare and people who just want to. they speaking kind of human to human and they they want to know

a little bit about you and. they're willing to have a conversation and that really surprised me one of the things that really struck me from like twitter well divest is knocking on people's doors was how much more hopeful i was asked for a 2 hour session of like knocking on people's doors and talking to them rather than looking at my replies on twitter and so you know people really surprised me and people would say that they change their minds about sent things but not for a 5 unfortunately and i spent my whole life like yeah learning how to put together it was often because i had a really nice conversation with you today and you know sometimes having that conversation was not for me didn't have to bring in the stats and the science it's very hard to change people's minds i was saying that it's very very hard times i felt like people would just be like say ok ok just because i wanted to get rid of me so that was we can also how quickly when you open the door and do that right i mean i don't go door to door i like to see you like how you know i think

a lot of you with a racist interest be so depressed so quickly i mean how quickly were people judging you they look you up and down and go here is someone who looks like you i don't know anything else what about you and therefore you fit into the following stereotypes that i'm going to adhere to i have to demonstrate that i belong to the area and to go beyond because people just would assume so i was like are you from new in which the people that i know is that part of east london where there's more people that look like me and i've been i why would you assume but when did it become. this point of like i belong and you don't well again i think this is a lot to do with our sort of cultural amnesia and very selective telling of the history of empire that actually black and brown people have been present in this country well since roman times admittedly in smaller proportions but that once you understand that phrase the we are here because you were there and that empire is

the reason that we live in a multicultural society that if we teach that if we have a much richer understanding of the relationship between the various colonized places that occurred during. during the years of empire maybe there would be a better a better sense of belonging there with the stops being so i mean if you have a question and your belonging i grew up in a small town in the east coast of england that was when i 1st experienced racism but you know bear in mind i look like this right so my dad is is is from yorkshire . and my my biological mother is indian via guyana right so that's my mixed race miss i did experience some racism in that in that village when i was growing up but it's not you know it's minus stuff and also your parents since 81 i always got on which people of color got which is that you cannot do what twice as hard to get anywhere i can get but i didn't get that because all of my experiences of racism

were effectively positive and maybe that is a reflection of my own privilege and and being mixed race rather than. integrated into one particular ethnicity pair because with me it was just important part my dad to us about racism he in fact used to tell us if anyone calls you that he went yeah. he used to make us practice punching on him this is hilarious when i'm no violent person he said a line the 3 of us up and say right punch me here as hard as you can if any one of us says it. i mean the face i was 6 years old right and this is a my mom at the same time who was the polar opposite to my to my dad and was actually from pakistan and she would say you know if they say that you tell them that the p. would mean clean in or do i'm sorry like one time primary school in the playground said to me that he would and i said and i thought about it so i punched him i said

i use mom's line and i decided not to punch him and say i said the p. word means clean and he was so confused. that he doesn't this is odd to me like this because he has never said anything identified because he just looked so confused so he said my version of that story it's the parallels are very striking up because because when i got called the he was school when i was about 7. by a kid whose name i still remember but i went. and i did punch him. and i do you know advocate violence. but i got summoned by the headmaster. and i was terrified because i thought i was going to get into big trouble yeah and what happened was he suspended him and so the outcome for the sort of thing by being positive experiences that's really good because my thing is just to say just ignore it yeah yeah so that's why i think that my own personal experience my own personal narrative is is not necessarily very informative for my own so the development of

my ideas it's not absence it sets you apart to try to understand what was going on in that situation but i can't pretend that i've been the recipient of serious racial abuse through my life more so if you i mean i think i mean yeah i mean you get trolled down if you're a public person joe so you know it's. and there's certainly been instances 3 life but for me you know it's more about the subtle ways that these things come up you know being in the room when you know your colleagues are talking about migrant labor and they say well migrant labor has become. from the caribbean and pakistan has become obsolete and they're in the room and i oversee forgot and. so this is and actually i experienced a lot more racism when i went to the university of oxford and. in like middle class well you know the think tank well then this is you know today the stereotype about the white working cause it was

a really negative because they put the dies in to light this race is green and my experience of growing up with a white working class of course is that racism everywhere but i got much worse racism and like when i was at the university of oxford which really scared me because i was like these people are going to be in positions of power they are going to run the wild and i know what i really think i've seen them get drunk yeah i'm so bad at city was really important to me deciding. you know do you do policy was pushed myself to be more public and i was so i thought i know. what these people really think of all of us and what they think of working class people especially not just on a big t.v. program on the b.b.c. and i was used as an example of the b.b.c. successful racial diversity and when i heard that i was like if. i'm your racial diversity then you have a real problem yeah that's very important that you point now because they will use you i will use us at times and it's really important that we say this is

a real change real change is when i see you know ethnic minorities in this country and groups all around the wow you know being given real opportunities not on not disproportionately on no wait is not disproportionately dying from whatever. onus is coming up you know having equal access to public services that's the real change so i want to see it's not just the odds so say black faces in high places right bike yeah yeah i'm not no no exactly and you know we see we see good representation of black and brown faces on t.v. but we don't see it behind the camera and we see amazing representation of black faces in you know football for example but we don't see any of it in the managerial struggle noticeable i really needed to have power he gets to write the script he gets to coach the team he gets to be the dodds right so yeah bad type of representation real representation of bell paua you know this is the missing yeah

and not even the conversation about racism still today is too superficial for me and i want to go much deeper think much more about institutional change ok should we have audience questions. i know him from toronto canada. as you said racism is politically advantageous in a white supremacist world wins elections is one of the engines that keeps capitalism running it justifies subjugation of racialized people to low wage labor and poverty so why are we still trying to argue as racists about the scientific basis of their church humanity when it would serve them to recognize it here well that's a great question but i think that the answer from my point of view is and part of the motivation for writing this book is that there are i found that the science in this book is not new and not controversial so the idea of the biological essential as a man and a biological basis for race has been utterly taken down by science by genetics

that is a non-controversial thing to say within the lab within academia but what i found as a science communicator and in talking to publics is that that that information hasn't filtered down into into public consciousness and that's on me right you know that's my job is to do that. and then secondly on top of that that in the last few years with the rise of. populism and nationalism and changing political discourse but also the way the public embrace particular genetic ancestry testing kits products i think has actually changed the conversation about race and reintroduced biological essential as in my ideas into the public discourse in a way that i don't think any of us within genetics anticipated so i think part of my job is actually just again disabusing people of those of those ideas in

a way that i didn't think we'd have to do if we were having this conversation 10 years ago. yeah i want to acknowledge how hard it is to do this what especially if you're a person of color and to have these conversations with racists is exhausting and there's just times when you just think what's the point of having this conversation they're just not going to the not going to see it but i think more generally what we have to do is counter the way in which. racism is being used to support certain governments and certain ideologies or right wing you know quite mainstream ideologies and we've got to keep having that conversation and one of the areas that i find that i get most hope is when i have this conversation with the younger generation who are not everyone but for the most part seems much more off talking about this we need to all do the work and have the conversations and it doesn't to start with government starts with the

in your own household and within your own family and at your school and you know we need people to do the what isn't just people of color let's have another question so you just face a little bit on how cool the defense inequality how do you think it could have been different was coated if you listen for the polarization we had towards the virus thank you really has exposed the levels of inequality in societies whether it be about gender based inequalities whether it be about race whether it be about income and who's losing their job who is most likely to die and it's really put society under an x. ray and demonstrate how much inequality matters and that is a lesson for us going forward because unfortunately cove it could just be a dress rehearsal for something much worse and you look at climate and potentially other pandemics and things that can go wrong and i think. ok he said societies that canada coughed. are import that can stick together that follow instructions that's

going to be really important for any kind of crisis coming up yeah from my perspective exposed to how we think about science and society as well in the relationship between science and policy. and so you know the fact that it was racialized into discreet ways early on one was the provenance of the disease so there was you know racialized attacks right here in london a kid from my own university with from singapore was beaten on oxford street in america that there are so many attacks against chinese americans and korean americans there has a son with a pedia page you know numbers in the many thousands already so that was that was one aspect and then how. minority groups are more likely to be infected or more likely to die and these are best explained by socio economic factors rather than rather than sort of you know genetics or molecular biology you can't deal with with a pandemic without having science and you can't make vaccines without science that

you know that that is our job in this process but if you don't deal with the underlying problems. and in fact the underlying causes of this pandemic which is man's humankind interaction with nature itself the fact that we are encroaching upon territories because of climate change and causing climate change which means that we are interacting in nature where these viruses coronaviruses live humankind is not exonerated from this conversation it's not a natural phenomenon that this that this occurred to this pandemic occurred it's because of our integrated relationship and changing relationship with the environment i think we're going to take another question. high. family growth up his education an anti-racism education system i think how large is still or not widely taught in schools and university or when it is taught it's quite

explosive to slavery. or history rather than an intersection or subject across all or subjects so in your respective fields say economics and science what do you think lisa take place in order for us to be learning about racism and understanding and to racism in the education system so i think we're interesting nexus right now because the concept of anti racism has been weaponized against and to racists which is you know fundamentally problematic you know our government are focusing very much on this question of whether the introduction of discussions about anti racism you know are serving education i teach at u.c.l. just over there and we have race and genetics and race and eugenics integrated into our buyout biology courses and that's been like that for 40 years i think that might be a slightly unusual history because

a lot of race science and eugenics actually occurred at u.c.l. and what i've discovered in the last couple of years since doing this book is that that conversation doesn't even spill outside of the biology department at u.c.l. let alone into the broader society i think that overall. my sense is that to normalize these conversations is part of the social change it requires a political movement and it requires you know revolutionary voices and conservative voices but ultimately you know i do think the arc of history is towards progress i think that is true i think we're in a weird blip at the moment i don't we i mean do you do you agree or disagree with that i hope it's by also warry that we are you know regressed same i think we are a very worrying time if we're not going to. learn the lessons from coded and we're not able to say ok yes we truly are going to build back better we're going to make

sure we do do a green you'd say oh and we do have higher wages and you know invest more in our health care systems in the rest of it. then we would have missed this this major moment in which we could have had the acceleration of change positive change like there was off to the 2nd world war and just just to answer your question as well and just what the economics discipline condemning is all kinds of problems with the way in which economics is tool but one thing i would say to those studying economics right now is to oss. distributional questions i asked him will this policy or will this particular way of looking at markets he will be affected he will win and he will lose and ask why and when you are says questions and you follow that through why you always come back to issues of prejudice and it's really important for us to push back on subjects like you know your hair i'm hearing from you on science and genetics and economics which also kind of thinks of itself as

a science sometimes even though it's a social science i think it's fairly obvious to the audience we both like. in the mist. and you know asking people to. be challenged well deliberately challenge and i didn't get into this to talk about race i go into this because i really like evolution and d.n.a. and genes but the point but there comes a point where you know if you're a scientist talking about humans then you can't not talk about that and i think that you know that's my message to to my my scientific. colleagues and friends is that it's not enough to sit back and say you know what we did the research and it's up to people and publics and governments to talk about the policy implications necessary or otherwise for my work we are part of society and i think it's the same for economists as well that that we need a much better more integrated approach to understanding. history

and how our history informs our present science is political and always has been political and if you say it's not you haven't been paying attention for the last 500 years yeah to miss him really good to speak to you and even though. i know. his history and science of racism and the way in which science is often used by racists i think it's one of the things i really take from this conversation is really but if us as individuals trying to do our work and finding that in all disciplines in economics and in science there's this massive blind spot when it comes to race and racism and prejudice and the way in which it's playing out in all industries all sexes i think that some think that everyone can look at their own spare of work and understand that racism and prejudice is always bad we all have it

with an os but we socialized to be racist all the time we have to take that action to fight and it's better for at the individual level and within all disciplines if we're willing to be have that conversation and be brave then we will be somewhere else in 5 years or in 10 years. that is the work that needs to be done so even though it's difficult i do find it difficult. it's a positive sign alternately because you know it wouldn't be worth changing it wasn't hardware like that absolutely and it is the struggle for that for a reason to keep growing yes keep going i'm going to do the things we can't like so hard or anything going to do that. i couldn't accept the reality that my actually going to go on a rubber boat across the aegean with 60 people to see. saddam in europe when i was

a teenager listening to him i never expected that this would have been it's very very important for me that you acknowledge the honor that is due to my food i don't care the color of your skin i don't care that the city please cook my food but i can least respect my roots to come here navigating b.-o. crissy racism language barriers to borders and statements and then rebuild your life is by itself a success. from the al-jazeera london. to people in thoughtful conversation people use the lowest get agreement they describe the outside with no host and no limitation the difference between a migrant and refugee is purely a choice when you are refugee you are forced to speak of asma khan. what has

happened a lot in the west is that culture and for the separated studio unscripted and. the climate has changed every year for millions of years decades of told good little action it's all about just create confusion to create smoke and mirrors the shocking truth about how the climate debate has been systematically subverts of the oil industry was bankroller or opposition of the campaign against the climate do you think that's a bad thing. it was sure she could see absolutely coming soon on. the long haul what do i owe the next. but my sister saved me. along my last year with more family. the reality of addiction in the arab wild i'm the struggle for a cup for. me. i'll just be around

wells goes inside a rehab clinic in the nile town tak. rehab egypt edge of addiction on al-jazeera. to die fast range of stories from across the globe from the perspective of on that what's journalists on al-jazeera. experts are calling it unprecedented a us police chief testifies against the officer accused of killing george floyd and says he violated policy. it is my firm belief that one singular incident we will be judged forever on your use of force. so rahman you're watching al-jazeera live my headquarters here in doha also coming up jordan's royal court says the prince at the center of what's being called

a malicious coup is now pledging loyalty to the king. calls for rescuers for more her.