distance between where the by standard stood and where the action is happening behind the vehicle with the officer including from us or shogun physically on physically restraining george floyd and the state is building a very strong case each witness has made clear that even the use of force is allowable is acceptable under the policy that officers must stop using force when the suspect. stops resisting and we've seen now from several vantage points the videos where george floyd is no longer resisting in fact his motionless and even before that point his hands are behind his back his or prone position which we hear repeatedly is not the way that suspects can remain when our servers are using force they must turn them on their site we hear that from malta paul oxer is from the department and there's also been

a discussion about the provision of of health care and medical services to that alexis hoga law electra and columbia law school great to get your thoughts with us here on out of there thanks so much for being with us and access. or let's now go to our correspondent allen fessor he is outside that courthouse where that trial is taking place in minneapolis and as we've been saying the prosecution is really trying to ram home this point here. they're drilling down on training they've done it with the to witnesses this morning what was interesting was carryin who is involved in the training was asked does it. sometimes the public don't understand what a police officer is doing because it will look bad but it's still clearly illegal that goes to the point that the gas was just making that the defense are trying to say look he did what he had to do me a look bad to those that were filming and on video but derek chauvin was acting within the guidelines what they're doing know the prosecution with the the witness

that is there is to see what would you define as use of force and clearly he has said use of force you use the minimum amount of force to to get in charge of the situation and then you don't because you don't want there to be injuries to you or to anyone else and so i think clear that the point that the prosecution is trying to make is that perhaps derek chauvin was justified in initially restraining george boyd because there was a problem but not for 9 minutes 29 seconds when he had his neck his knee on his neck and that is the point that the prosecution is going to continue to make that there may well have been and that's trying to blunt what will be one of the defense's tactics is that he may well have done what he thought was right as far as the guidelines are concerned but there is a point and that point you stop using force and you start treating someone if they're in distress or you take them to where they need to go you do not when

someone is motionless important in front of you continue to examine that force and that small window is going to be key to this case and alan despite having really only had 4 prosecution witnesses so far we're already had a pretty good sense of where the defense is going to go with their case. exactly. if they already laid out exactly where they were going to go and so remember for them. the barton is slightly less because the prosecution have got to prove their case in the united states you are innocent until proven guilty and so derek sean despite all with at the moment is still an innocent man it is up to the prosecution to claim that he was responsible for the 2nd or 3rd degree murder of george floyd or perhaps even his manslaughter all the defense has to do is introduce an element of reasonable doubt would

a reasonable person think or 2nd maybe that was a significant factor and so that is why when given that the chance to question these witnesses that's exactly what they're doing and they're putting forward their theory that derek sure of and acted within the guidelines that with that were there that is why so much time is being taken up with the use of force and whether or not you should use your legs in restraining someone i think there was an important point made much earlier by carryin who is the crisis intervention coordinator when he was asked about the intensity of the situation because that is a point that the defense is going to make that there were so many people surrounding them that the officers felt they were at risk but he was asked would you consider someone standing with a camera is serious today and he said no that wouldn't be a serious that that would be way down on the list of thirds the officers face and so by bringing these for want of

a better word establishment figures as prosecution witnesses as the guest previously mentioned in as we were talking about just 24 hours ago with the evidence from the police chief this is a sizable crack in what has been known as the blue wall where police officers are reluctant to give evidence against other officers that me incriminate them in serious crimes such as this. i went on a test for us just outside that courthouse and minneapolis thank you so much and. if you have just joined us we are covering live the matter trial of former police officer derek. the death of african-american man george freud in minneapolis now we've just been hearing from lieutenant johnny massa who's currently on leave from the police department but was also part of the training team for the use of force by offices including derek shravan back in 2018 now he's been testifying about proportionality just how officers should use the minimal amount of force that's necessary for arresting someone also taking into account the most sensitive parts of the human anatomy. this is day 7 of the trial and so far the defense appears to

be trying to paint a picture of just how stressful the situation may have been for the officers who a call to the scene and how things may look bad to bystanders as alan was saying but can still potentially be allowed now the same time there's also been a real emphasis by the prosecution on how mr sharon's actions were against his training and their policy well earlier we also heard from sergeant yang a crisis intervention training coordinator with the pace department he wrapped up his testimony he's appeared as a witness for the prosecution but has cross-examined about the training given to officers especially when it comes to dealing with someone in crisis that course congress individual in crisis symptoms and deescalation strategies that maybe use in crisis so it's a scenario based training. the trainer because i see it you have seen so c.h. in brains in professional actors to come in and to. to. conduct

crisis in areas where they're in a state of crisis and you know officer has to use the you have to deescalate strategies to bring him down to pre-crisis level or to help. well let's now bring in mary morea taisha so much a public defender and also a professor of criminal defense at the university of minnesota north school she joins us now here. as a format chief public defendant for hennepin county which is where this is all taking place i'm curious how damaging do you think the testimony is that we've had so far coming from within the force itself it's extremely damaging and we've now had i think 6 witnesses who are m.p.t. the minneapolis police department officers in chief and the lieutenant and the sergeants who's the direct supervisor. it's very clear that testimony in the policies that derek show violated multiple policies so it's been extremely damaging

and the defense hasn't the mate much inroad to try to our view that this group of people who are standing was any kind of threat to any of the police officers profess in the days and weeks following mystify it's death last i recall it doesn't sound like you want to take a surprise that the incident had actually even taken place that's correct we have a body cam some of the media has used hartmann as well as some other police departments and our borders which frequently see behavior like this he didn't go to the extent of what happened to george ojt but we saw a lot of needs and backs next just unnecessary here on the part of the minneapolis . also who just last year in your office i believe released a study that revealed that black people are overwhelmingly more like a for instance to be stopped by pay for traffic violations than white people are

things now changing in minneapolis since all of this has happened. well yes but it takes a long time to change culture we have a very good police chief you heard him testify yesterday about this about what she believes the interactions with part one should be but we have a history with the many upas needs to park them where they have committed similar acts on people in the community and so we this trial is about their children you heard a lot of testimony from cleese officers and chief about what the expectations are that doesn't mean that that's always what's happening on the ground and it's going to take a while to change the culture and to move officers like eric chauvin been around for a very long time and are protected by the. i mean you mentioned pace to faraday then came a huge witness for the prosecution yesterday and also i felt like he was ready to

testifying for the cameras as this is all being live streamed really trying to rebuild that trust with the community his condemnation of mr chavez actions when he speaks to that can the defense potentially do something with that say that he's speaking to the community rather than actually testifying specifically to mr sherman's actions. that is the way it is he spends a lot of time in the community listening nothing that you saw yesterday was anything different than what we've seen. i i don't think that the dissents made inroads what they were able to get him to acknowledge and other witnesses is that you have to look at each situation but everybody has seen this situation they've looked at the video and in many respects common sense prevails here and you decide whether that was an appropriate use of force and i think given the fact that the knee was on the neck for well after the time when george floyd became non-responsive momo speaks for itself. professor i'm curious also about the

conversations that we've been hearing around cameras and the whole the fact that this whole incident was being filmed the defense seems to be trying to trade that as a real stress for police is that something that's typically come up in cases that you've dealt with. not really it is legal for people to film the police the police know that sometimes they do take people's cameras but there really shouldn't have been much that's stressful about this group of people and all of the police officers including the chief testify to that and i want to point out too i heard the defense make that argument that there was some kind of angry mob here that was distracting show that and the other officers from cheering for george floyd but i think that that has really backfired because the jury in the rest of us had the opportunity to meet each and every one of these people who were standing there and when the 4 of them were teenagers or one of them was 9 years old we know their

stories we know why they were there this was just something that they were forced to do with this we know how traumatized they are still to this day we heard many of them through tear is talking about how they feel guilt because they didn't help more we also have the the video from behind where we could see officer tell how he actually pushing one of them in the chest but every time he told them to get back on the curb they did it so it's hard to imagine that these people that we met and we know their stories we can see that they were respectful except for the t.v. to get the officers to get off of george floyd it's a little hard to imagine how the jury will interpret what they were saying as as being a distraction i'd also say that yesterday the state brought up a question because his defense was trying to argue that shock even for people to be

watching this in the state said to a witness well isn't the best way of dealing that to stop doing what shocking the. answer has outs so i don't think that that argument is really going to carry any weight in fact i think it might detract from what is the defense's mean. oh well you spoke there about trauma and people watching i spoke to one of our guests yesterday who said that many people particular in the african-american community can hardly bear to watch this trial because they really have so little faith in the legal and justice system what would you say to them. well i know that that's true i have many black friends who cannot watch this and sometimes when they try to watch it they end up in tears it is extremely traumatic it has been this this what happened here in minneapolis was kind of like our circus and. what happened after michael brown was killed in that many activists many in our community have been

talking about the behavior of the minneapolis police department there's a whole history there and george floyd was just kind of the combination of all of that pain and anger there is a distrust of the system because the only time a police officer has been held accountable in a court of law for chilling anybody was actually a black officer who killed a white woman several years ago so there was a lot of anger about that so this is just the culmination of a lot of strange and trauma and it's been very difficult for many in our community to the point where there are there's a lot of discussion about a people getting mental health care are they taking care of themselves you know don't watch this trial because it's going to make it worse it is incredibly traumatic and i will remind people if they've been watching some of the jurors couldn't watch the video either and because it's it's it's just an awful thing you

know of watching a man die and let's see what over and over he has been playing coy and over in this trial and that's something extremely difficult for anybody who watched it's also been difficult although we didn't see these teenage witnesses but we saw the witnesses like charles mcmillian who watched the beginning when we saw him his head was on the table and sobbing and it took a few minutes to collect himself so we were steaming about trauma right in that court room and day and important to remember as well that the trial itself is a traumatic event many people marry more than the format change public to fend for help in counting in minneapolis thanks so much for being with us here on out of there. thank you now let's bring you some other news and tensions are deepening over ethiopia's and mega dan with sudan accusing it of breaking

international law that's after 2 days of talks between ethiopia sudan and egypt failed to reach an agreement ethiopia has built the ground renee's once down to produce electricity but its neighbors fear it will impact their water supply have a morgan is in khartoum with more. so dan is thing that would if you're trying to do is try to impose a reality on the 3 countries especially sudan in egypt it says that the rounds of talks have produced no breakthrough they've been holding talks for 3 days effectively when it was set to end on monday but resumed on tuesday morning as the 3 sides entered closed meetings to try to iron out the differences the main difference over this whole round of talks that was taking place in is that sudan and egypt want the mediation team to expand to include the united states the u.n. and the european union that is something if european has strongly rejected and said that the the mediator of the talks between the 3 sides should remain the african

union alone because they say that they believe african solutions to african problems now the 3 sides have failed to reach a deal despite those few talks a few days of talks so it looks like they've tried as much as they can but now sudan is think that what europeans doing is violating international law as it's trying to impose their reality on the ground without reaching a deal and they say that that's a violation not just. sorry to interrupt that let's take you back to our special coverage of derek sivers murder trial in the united states the former police officer is accused of killing george freud by kneeling on his neck and 9 minutes and 29 seconds we are hearing testimony there from johnnie macel with the minneapolis police department part of the training team who trained derek 7 back in 2018 on the use of force let's listen into what he has to say you want to make sure that you check the fit of the cuffs and double lock them for their safety you turned your back you sit down we turn to take up on a person we want to be mindful of the. double marking further training

of the double walk is just. a portion prevents that comes from coming undone or going. and. there are several different positions an officer can be and what are handcuffing the suspect is that right that the i'm sorry the officer could be in many different positions relative to the subject when they're handcuffed absolutely very dynamic yes are standing this are prone yes or right and i'd like you to please describe for the jury what techniques are used to prone to handcuff subject. with a prone handcuff you want to make sure that we isolate an arm and a lot of times we teach the officers to use a need to control their shoulder generally put one knee on each side of the arm so want to be on the upper shoulder one but middle the back. and then isolate that arm

present the risk for a coughing and then handcuff and a lot of times when you're doing the prone coughing. you do that with a partner preferably a mason a lot easier to control the person in if someone is handcuffed in here using your knee on their back or shoulder to gain control do you do you leave it there for an extended period of time it depends on the circumstance you can leave it there for a longer period of time depending on the resistance you get. and what would signal to you as a trainer when you're supposed to release you when their behavior deescalate their resistance relative to the handcuffing. that's rights or yes commitments so once you've accomplished the handcuffing once the subject actually been handcuffed is that the appropriate time to release your life not necessarily what people are handcuffed in the proposition they can. thrash around right there round and they

can they do present a little bit of a threat they can kick bite some other things so our control doesn't end with and coughing always. if the subject is resisting correct that's correct the mere possibility that a attentional that a subject could resist like that kicking is that justification to leave your leg in place not an officer i would i would say the behavior that would lead you to leave you there so once the subject is handcuffed and compliant or not resisting is the officer to remove there. that would be an appropriate time and how long then is the person subject to be left in that prone handcuffed position once they're compliant it depends on the circumstances that you're involved in what this person and the surrounding environment so assume the circumstances that i just

stated the subject is prone handcuffed and no longer resisting or i think it was reasonably necessary at the time to do it and you should get them in a different position what position is that depends on. circumstances but you put them in the recovery position on their side you can set them up you can stand them up. why would you want to put them into a different position there is the possibility to risk that that some people have difficulty breathing when the handcuffs are behind their back and they're on the stomach and what is that known as. so i'm sorry phrase are you familiar with the phrase positional asphyxia oh yes that is that the danger you'd be trying to avoid by putting someone in the side recovery position that is one of the dangers you're trying to avoid yes. this is a level that is very can reproduce you testified that you're familiar with the term

positional asphyxia yes i am why would you roll someone into the side recovery position after they've been handcuffed and are compliant. several reasons are there but one would be to prevent a potential situation where they might be subject to positional asphyxiation and how soon is a subject to be placed into the side recovery position after they become compliant and no longer resist. when it's when the scene is called for and you're able to do it. in terms of subject safety how soon should the person be put into the site recovery position i would say sooner the better. you know you testify that there are circumstances. in which this subject can offer further resistance even though they're handcuffed is that right yes and like to

direct your attention to peach 58 exhibit 219. this slide discusses the maximal restraint technique is that right that's. is there another is or particular device that's used to accomplish the maximum restraint technique yes or it's the rip restraint of the republican. can you please describe the maximal restraint technique to the german yes or if you have a subject that is handcuffed behind their back generally and that's the way we like to help people and they continue to. cause a threat to you are other people or themselves we. have taught our officers to use the maximum restraint technique which is taking this rep restraint which is a nylon strap with a clamp on it and you would wrap it around their legs and then connect it to the front of the body if possible belt loop or or

a 2nd restraint around their waist and what that does is it bends their legs so that their legs are no longer a threat to kick out of you kind of put their legs in about a 90 degree angle so they're not be able to extend the way exult to kick you if there are threats are you aware that the use of the maximal restraint technique is guided governed by m.p.t. policy yes or knows and that's 5 dash 316 that's correct. is there more than one device that's authorized to perform the maximal strict i believe it right now is just the rep or the rib as one will use. and so if an officer reasonably believes that subject is thrashing would you recommend that they use this maximal restraint technique to ensure their safety yes

or no and if they do so with m.p.t. policy 5 dash 316 your training what does the officer need to do after the subject has been placed in the m r t s problem. replace her play some of the recovery position how soon as soon as possible why because when you further restrict their ability to move it can further restrict their ability to breathe. oh. in terms of the appropriateness of force would you agree with the proposition that force must be reasonable when it's applied yes or and would you also agree that circumstances can change the subject behavior can change yes or

right the environment can change yes are you familiar with the minneapolis m.p. critical to thinking model there critical position to model yes or no and that's you know kind of a graphic that. i haven't asked the question. or not believing that let's let's try to rephrase it. is the critical thinking model of graphical representation of a different concept i don't i don't understand the questions or are you familiar with the concept of reassess a reassessment absolutely and you describe reassess to. yes or to do the cripples or maybe model we. basically template of or officers look at it to understand their thinking processes and reevaluations when you're looking at certain stance that you have all been and your counsel looking for factors to

change so you can change your behavior. and is reassessment something that you've been teaching even before the advent of this model. oh yes it's the use of force. and soon there can be a time a point in time when a particular type of force is reasonable but as time passes circumstances can change yes or and then that force would no longer. that's correct and if that's the case what is the officer to do there or to change their force. i. think your honor i have nothing further. afield.

i may have the former. good morning sir good morning to check the time thank you for being with us today i have a few follow up questions regarding the training the minneapolis police department provides. you testified that one of your specialties or i believe that you talked about how you developed the ground defense program. i was one of the people who found it yes ok can you just describe generally what is the ground defense program

it's using techniques other than strikes to control individuals and that's the broad term and essentially that was a program that was introduced some 1015 years ago to the m.p.v. i believe it's 10 years now ok and that's using different like jujitsu moves or different. body control methods versus punching or striking an individual right that's correct and that was. a program again that you helped develop and found and you continue to train throughout the minneapolis police department during your time as in the training division right that's progress or and it's fair to say that when you train a police officer you're training them in particular moves that will help improve their ability to gain compliance of a subject right that's the goal yes or but certainly there's no strict application of every single rule agreed or every single technique that is correct officers.

which. are. next in this is a question rephrase your answer is that there is no strict application of every technique that an officer is trained is there no officers are trained to be fluid correct yes and sometimes officers have to do things that are unattractive to other people correct in terms of the use of force yes or. and an officer. you would agree that being a police officer is a relatively dangerous job. yes or you yourself in the course of your career have had to use force against suspects yes are you harassed that many people i presume yes are and would you agree that sometimes people aren't particularly happy about being harassed very rarely.