now i would like to talk to you about a couple of the minneapolis policies. so there's a sensually 2 minneapolis police policies that deal with emergency medical response correct. one being after use of force correct. and that being as soon as reasonably practical determine if anyone was injured and render medical aid consistent with training and request if necessary or part that's

a policy 5 dash 306 involving the use of force right now and so. the cost of the the policy is somewhat qualified correct meaning it's as soon as reasonably practical correct so in the course of the medical training one of the things that you train officers to do in the ministration of 1st aid is to consider other circumstances correct make sure that your scene is safe before you're able to render it. and there's the scene being safe could be not being safe could be come from a number of factors correct. environmental factors such as where you're located right yes whether there's a lot of traffic correct yes or whether there's a lot of bystanders correct. depending on their behavior right ok so seen

see if he is important and in fact minneapolis police. or the e.m.t. is more come to a scene until it's declared code for generally correct generally yes and so oftentimes it's not uncommon for e.m.t. is to stage off site until police call a scene for. code for being all clear all safe come on yes and so in that situation if a scene is unsafe empties don't come in at that point. the other policy that. we deal with here. anything. is. policies minneapolis police policy 7 dash

350 that's in front of you right now. and again instant relative to the emergency medical response minneapolis police officers are required to request e.m.'s as soon as practical correct and so there may be certain things that prevent an officer from calling in a mess right now. so both of the medical policies are somewhat qualified or contingent upon what's going on at the scene at the time right. now in terms of this exhibit want to leaven which is the c.p.r. presentation that you've presented. turned to.

return to. bits to 1856 down at the bottom there there is a reference to agonal breathing yes what is agony. reading and reading is something you'll see in somebody who is on responsive and they're in some sort of respiratory distress that we see this quite often with opiate overdoses medical emergencies what have you and can you describe what exactly akon all breathing if it's. well i mean it's kind of a bad term for it because it's not affective breathing it's more of. kind of you know right now or gasp for air or really just calling your brains last ditch effort to try pulls them in a person observing someone going through agnel breathing it's common or it would be

possible that they would misinterpret that as actual breathing effective or yes they can be used like it is with real ratings that's what we teach this is not affective. right so an officer is dealing with someone who's experiencing agonal breathing it would potentially be possible for an officer to misinterpret reading for effect to breathe. and in certain circumstances where there's a lot of noise or a lot of commotion would it be more likely that that could happen yes. now you were shown this slide in terms of when do we stop c.p.r. and one of the reasons you stop performing c.p.r. is because it's not safe right. and by being not safe are you referring to the process of actually giving c.p.r.

or the environment that you would be doing it it would be the environment around you. and so it stands to reason that if the environment around you you determine to be not safe you may not start it right away. reasonable yes. now you also testified that you. teach on. the use of 9 or 10 correct and i am going to sure. you can see this training in front of you yes. is this training that you provide to minneapolis police officers yes and this is the administrator this is the program like the broader course on how to administer narcan correct and do you recognize this is a record that you keep in the ordinary course of your business yes. this is your

solution or. is it 1041. and i would move to admit exhibit 1041. 41 is recent.

and permission to publish 1041. this is from the many up with police department in service from july of 2018. and if mr chauvin had attended this program and or his in service in july or through september of 2800 he would have received this training correct now in recent years. has become more of a concern for officers to be aware of craft. and ultimately train officers in the use of narcan to contra indicated or to contradict i should say the effects of narcan right. including for right now in your experience as a police officer and as a medical trainer have you experienced individuals who take combinations of drugs

yes i've you heard the term speedball. and would you agree that that is generally they become a nation of both and a stimulant like methamphetamine and a depressant like phantom yes. and we've been watching the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek show vin charged with the murder of george floyd we've just been hearing the testimony of nicole mckenzie she's a minneapolis police medical support coordinator being questioned by the defense

right now erica nelson they were just talking about her describe the presence of analysis on that so-called narcan drug get in someone system and has how to deal with it let's just listen in again and has become common place in your experience yes now as you know has become more prominent do you see the. legal forms such as patches or other pills that maybe minister hospital. do you see that on the streets. yes you'll see. that pharmaceutical purposes that also illicit. drugs are made of acard. lines can you explain for the jury whether in your experience you've seen illicit fent no

use on the rocks. and i'm going to just. show you generally when you talk about someone you show it to officers in this training when someone is experiencing an opiate overdose you may see this type of behavior that correct. someone may fall asleep someone may be very tired kind of out of it right great big or bigger those winds of turn. would this be consistent with what you would see generally a. opiate overdose it could be have you ever been at a scene where an opiate overdose someone can be more responsive. even though they've taken. the correct now in terms of. fentanyl can you explain. so this is

a diagram to show you just what could be considered on we've all those not just it's more of a visual indicator because we already know how dangerous heroin and you can see it a trace of mom about. could be done with the panel and even more so with her mom. and. not even in very small doses can be. in the again we were hearing the testimony of nicole mackenzie a medical support coordinator for many athletes police she's been cross-examined by the defense in the trial over there and show than charged with the murder of george

floyd. a lot of the thrust of the questioning right now over. i suppose the question all or as we saw they're being called that now looks own and narcan. basically today the defense. very much trying to focus on the idea that drug use could have been one of the main causes of the death of george floyd so the use of force really and how police officers should try to deescalate crisis situations has been the focus of today which is the 7th day of evidence in the trial of former minneapolis police officer derrick chauvelin think we can go to allan fisher who is an island isn't there just yet we are seeing

a short break. in court proceedings. that's also for the defense will on tuesday expert witnesses outlined the force's procedures including the fact that all minneapolis police officers were trained in dealing with a crisis so shoguns defense team as previously argued that the circumstances surrounding george floyd's death were extraordinary and stressful stressful for a variety of reasons including the fact that there was a crowd around there filming. for those now infamous and minutes 29 seconds when their chauvin had his knee on george floyd's neck the prosecution the alleges the show of and did not follow official guidelines for the use of force in another officer testified that police were trained to use force while ensuring the subjects safety. so we were just hearing there from

nicole mckenzie but we can see really what i guess the main aim of the defense is in all of this is to sow the seed of doubt. as to what might have caused the death of george floyd and obviously. the fact that he had drugs in his system is going to be and has started to obviously be one of the main arguments of the fence and we can see the defense prosecutor. the defense attorney there let's go to alan fischer who is following developments for us just outside court in let me ask you this allan what have you made of the past hour or so. this is really just a boat lying the training that police officers get when it comes to dealing with those who may suffer a medical emergency when they're in their custody the defense making it very clear that the given the techniques and the tools to be able to shoot people such as

george floyd if you suddenly became unconscious what the defense are trying to do in the still trying to build this case at the moment is that everything becomes slightly more complicated if someone is on drugs and we know that derek children believe that george floyd was in drugs certainly there was an interesting hours of evidence this morning here in minneapolis when we heard from the man who trains use of force techniques to the police he looked at the pictures that we everyone has seen so often of doing children with his knee or in george floyd saying that is not a technique that he put the teach there also they try and make sure that if anyone is being restrained that they keep the well away from the neck simply because that that can that that can cause problems he was asked about why he wasn't george floyd wasn't rolled into a recovery position or certainly a position it was more comfortable as soon as he became compliant at the defense or trying to argue that believe there was

a risk that he may suddenly become conscious and cause real problems become even more violent what johnny mercer always saying it was the man who teaches those techniques is that once you have someone who is compliant you should start to ease off the level of force that you are. using because that reduces the risk to both you and to the person that you're treating and also you should get them out of position if they're prone on the floor because if you restrict their movement units treat their breathing so that seems to be almost like a shift in what the defense is saying it's not necessarily the daily show vince neil who was on george floyd's neck therefore restricted his blood flow restricted because adultery it which would lead to problems with his heart but there was a thing called positional asphyxia which means that if you're in a position with someone's body weight on top of you it makes it much more hard for you to breathe than of course the argument is that george floyd couldn't breathe suffered a heart attack and that's what ultimately caused his his life the question of

course is was the type of an x. exceeded the period of keeping someone under control unnecessarily and if he did was he then responsible for the health emergency that george floyd then experienced . outside court all that's go back in the court room and listen to the custom in your. medical support court. breaking things. where they have you know blood like substances they. think you know in terms of a minute just back up and talk a little bit more about the response to a medical emergency again based on your experience as a police officer and an e.m.t. . you talked about how sometimes. in national stage until

a scene as is clear and say cracked and have you heard the term yes can you describe for the jury what that. there would be if i think it's more informal term that's used with 1st responders that essentially. means that as soon as they're going to be arriving it's a priority to get up person into the ambulance so it's possible and get in route to the hospital as soon as possible are there reasons why e.m.t. you would or a paramedic will choose to do that rather than ministering 1st aid at the scene yes one of those reasons that. if you know if you don't know this is a ship i feel comfortable estimate and by way of example if maybe somebody had a knife in her chest obviously there's only so many things you can do for that person pre-hospital really the only thing that's going to take

a person is immediate surgery true so there may be conditions of the individual that mourned that type of pick up and go you know and what about. people in the area could that affect an e.m.t. is decision to go yes how so if you have a very hostile volatile crowd i know it sounds like a reasonable but bystanders do occasionally attack. so sometimes just getting out of the situation is kind of the best way to defuse it. when you ever had to perform. emergency services in a just not even a hostile crowd just a loud excited crowd yes is that in your experience more or less difficult it's an incredibly difficult one. because if you're trying to be heads down on

a patient that you need to render aid to it's very difficult to focus on that patient while there's other things around you if you don't feel safe around you if you don't have enough resources. you know it's very difficult to focus on the one thing. to distract absolutely and so. does it make it more difficult to. assess a patient does does it make it more likely that you may miss signs that a patient is experiencing something yes and so the the distraction can actually harm the potential care of the of the patient yes. i have no particular.

are officers trained that sometimes they have to provide emergency medical services in less than ideal conditions yes these rendering of emergency aid in practice does not happen in a classroom setting doesn't. it in so you're in the environment as you find is that right yes in terms of a crowd in a crowd being hostile. how would you define hostility. be a growing contingent of people around if there are you know yelling being. you know even to those that are trying to provide scenes purity and. no one else. if there's people trying to interfere with a crime scene or you know interfere with a patient or have to use a weapon throw rocks or bottles yes something like that could prevent someone from

providing emergency aid is that right. ken the activities though of a crowd of the activities of the group of onlookers excuse the police officer from the duty to render emergency medical aid to a subject who needs only if they were physically going in themselves involved. if they were physically prevented if the officer was physically prevented from doing yes. and want to talk a little bit about some of the things you said were indicative of excited delirium you said superhuman strength is that right yes and if you would you say it was that it was because of the inability to feel pain there right. that's a part of it yes and the inability to feel pain is something that you associate with are you trained officers to associate with excited delirium that it could be a case of excited delirium. and so if someone was actually manifesting

a response to pay. indicating that something was heard of them then that would tend to indicate that they're not suffering from excited delirium is that right. what would subjects response to pain stimulus suggest that as it relates to excited delirium they may or may not be excited delirium it's a little bit hard to. predict because no 2 people are really prevent the exact same way you do it so then how do you tell what it is well that's not up for us to diagnose it's just a matter of taking in the information you have at that time to decide if this could potentially be a case of them were you just need to plan accordingly and you indicated that whatever excited delirium is you look at it as a medical issue correct that needs treatment yes you know and in terms of the drug use as well it's fair to say that if someone is showing

a dish of drug intoxication it can make. vulnerable is not just violent. nothing for other. members of the jury let's take 10 minutes we have to deal with one issue with this lawyer made however. 10 minutes ago he beckoned to. can short break now for the jury when listening to the testimony of nicole mckenzie she is a minneapolis police officer a medical support coordinator we were hearing her question but both eric nelson for the defense and steve sly her for the prosecution certainly erik nelson from the fence very much. focusing on the impact that the crowd that was around george floyd and the policemen who were restraining him the impact that that might have had on anyone who would have gone to assist george

floyd. and really this was indicative of what we've seen throughout the day because the use of force and how police officers should try to deescalate crisis situations is really been the focus of this 7th day of evidence in the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek show than he is of course accused of the murder of george floyd a black man whose death last may start months of protests demanding racial equality and then end to police brutality so again today tuesday expert witnesses outlined to the forces procedures including the fact that all minneapolis police officers were trained in dealing with a crisis children's defense team has previously argued that the circumstances surrounding floyd's death were extraordinary and crucially especially when we think of the evidence we've just heard stressful so let's go to alan fischer he's been

following the trial for us in minneapolis just outside court now the defense very much making that point i mean 1st they focused on the issue of drugs and now on the sort of impact that having a crowd around me we also pictures of the number of people gathering around when they're of chauvin had his knee on george. that that having the crowd there would have made the situation more stressful for the police officers. well let's talk about this idea of excited delirium overfed about that a couple of times over the last few days this is the idea that someone who takes drugs can be subdued perhaps go unconscious and then when they become conscious again they become even more stronger in the act with a region a strength that is unexpected and unpredictable certainly is a controversial idea as we heard from the the doctor who treated george floyd when he was asked about that in evidence on monday he said it's not entirely accepted by

the medical community and it's not something that he would readily subscribe to paraphrase him slightly but it is something that the prosecution with the defense rather want to keep pushing this idea that derek schilling can't george floyd subdued under control because there was always the concern that he me to come back into consciousness and he would have this rage that would be difficult to control there for putting. his colleagues at risk and so that is a theory that is going to be spread through a number of witnesses by the defense when it comes to the idea of the crowd to being around it certainly we've haired that the defense believe the crowd was threatening there were certainly from what we saw on body camera footage last week there were a few comments being made some of them. were filled with expletives some of that could be considered aggressive but we've heard from police witnesses who said that

the police have trained to deal with this sort of thing and someone holding a camera wouldn't be concerned wouldn't be considered an immediate threat someone who could put everyone at risk and sadly from what we saw from the videos there was no move by the crowd towards the police officers that is to a degree more threatening than you would get from just a crowd was. what was going on and so this is an argument that the defense are keen to push through whether or not the jury buys that that's really up to the jury when it comes to their decision to decide the facts of the case as was pointed out some of the evidence that we will be talking to police officers and to medical experts from the defense has been speculative not did this happen can you see that happening this is what is going to happen it has been a new experience have you ever had or have you ever seen examples of a not referring exactly to the george floyd case that could be

a problem or could be a hard pill for the defense to overcome. alan fischer with the latest outside court in minneapolis alan for the moment thank you and we will of course go back to that there a show then trial when it restarts the jurors just taking a short break should be about 20 minutes or so sick a look at some of the day's other news now iran's says it's confident in direct talks with the u.s. on its nuclear deal with world powers are on the right track european officials relayed messages between iranian and u.s. officials in vienna where sides have attempted to revive the pact president biden promised to bring to return to the accord to during his campaign after his country pulled out under donald trump 2 further meetings are due to be held by experts from .