right and so when you are when a person isn't just to elicit street purchased fact now it's every time they take effect in all dulles it's a different experience for that person. if it's affecting the responders resent or it's going to actually do you reset who's in the middle a blank at it there's no way around that it's not the event that isn't going to have an effect on respiration but some other mechanism understood what the end result of that know can include. respiratory depression right through them you re said. and we also learned that there was methamphetamine in the low dose in mr floyd system right and then found on the methamphetamine they can kind of kalar active right. i mean there are no winners but to me but in terms of the response of presenters there is not going to be so the math i'm fat i mean would not i mean the methamphetamine is going to increase the heart rate that's

a different thing than there is present understood but that's going to methamphetamine will increase a person's are right it is that's one of the side effects and there are a few lawfully. there are a few conditions where a physician can wofully prescribe methamphetamine yes but it's exceedingly rare that it's actually done. i can't say but i mean it's definitely a prescribed of the legion kind of used to be used commonly for appetite suppressant and i think. a b.h.t. is. so. we also know that adrenaline will increase the heart. and adrenaline can be put into the body in multiple ways. and while let me let

me there are many things that can cause a surge in adrenaline yes one of those things would be getting into a fight with someone yes or being afraid it would. be to create the fund and the parent ganglia parent gang we have norma that was found i understand you call it the 10 percent tumor but in 10 percent of the tumor cases that can cause an adrenaline surge yes i mean the one percent will. now. in terms of the use of fentanyl in the hospital setting surgical setting have you become familiar with what's called wooden chest syndrome is him and can you explain for the jury what would enjoy some good some patients with fent you'd get any creasy chest was that so the lungs become less

elastic not quite alone. ok so that would prevent a chest wall tight our chest wall rigidity will also. decrease the performance of the locks it really impacts impede the ability of the lungs to impact to expand. now in your report you wrote that you would expect the peak respiratory depression to occur from fat now within 5 minutes of ingestion right. and. have you come to learn that. tablets were found or are controlled substances were found in the backseat of squat 320 i mean i've heard reports that at effect i don't know what the this that is. so you are not you've

not been provided with any additional information since the time you've prepared your report i know i am sure that's wrong but i've been. provided with a lot of information i don't necessary recall it keep it all sure i did it in front of my brain ok well yesterday we heard testimony from state crime lab that there were in the backseat of the squad car 2 partially consumed pills found in the back squat 320. s. to the characterization. even foundational to. this. you understand i know it's that kind of but not fully yesterday a chemist from the state crime lab ok testified in this case.

really it's a stain you can state of the form of i pathetically. i'm sorry can we i can't do it because cyber. if you just joining us are watching the trial of day 9 of the trial of their shaven who's accused of killing george floyd by kneeling on his neck fernand a half minutes we've been hearing just now from dr martin j. tobin use of palma knowledge assist in his testimony for the prosecution he said that. shallow breathing lead to george ward's death he said that it showed signs of a brain injury 4 minutes before derek shaven lifted his knees and he's not being cross-examined by the defense and they just

a sidebar let's listen back in if partially ingested pills that were determined to can contain. both fentanyl and math and fatten were found partially in just in the backseat of a squad of the squad car and that those pearls had been and come have the d.n.a. of the end of the deceased individual on them meaning that they took them. and those pills would have been in his mouth at about $218.00 or 20. is it fair to say that you would expect the peak for. respiratory depression within about 5 minutes. i mean obviously it will depend on how much of it was ingested to be that it was finding the pills won't tell you anything about whether any of it

was ingested or some of it or anything but if there was any amount of it ingested yes the peak would be vibrant. and so if it happened at $28.00 team or thereabouts when the individual was in the back of a car you would expect that people respiratory depression to be around 2030 right. 20202023 i'm sorry 2018 to 2023 is it time to really come you'd be missed. i'm sorry i think i can actually say it's been a long week. sell 2018 as the ingestion point you would expect peak respiratory depression by 2023 correct right that's the peak meaning that it could continue after right are. you also described in your direct testimony what you have interpreted to be an

anoxic seizure as at 2024 craig could then for 20 or. 20242121. and that was in what you. saw and what the jury was played was reflected in from officer lane's body camera right record and it was the kick of the lax right yes and after that point you can see officer land hold the light down right yes and you can see it kick up again yet right. now live over the other sorry with tendency to go fast. that's what you recognize based on your 46 years of being a pall monologist and intensivist and your experience i mean obviously it was edition of information from the hand but i mean but at the lake was the key. and.

would be reasonable for a police officer to interpret that same behavior as resistance on. the. now you testified that the last breath of mr floyd was at 202516th occurred. prior to that point to all people who were there and monitoring him he would have appeared to have been breathing. and it's just hard to hear sorry prior to that point you know it would be reasonable that he would appear to be breathing right yes and in fact you showed us a segment where you could were able to count his respiratory rate is right and then you said that at 2035 and 06

seconds is when the 1st air was pumped back and heard her and you understand that paramedics arrived at 2027 and 45 seconds. and so the time between that when the paramedics arrived and mr floyd got his 1st there was roughly 8 minutes almost 9 minutes yes yes. and according to timelines the drive to the hospital is about 5 minutes and as i said to them for you aware that the the drive to the hospitals about 5 minutes i wasn't aware of a no reason. and so between 2027 and 45 seconds when the e.m.t. is 1st arrived and the time they got him to have an air in his lungs

that was a crucial 9. yes. i've never. was book will. dr toben just a few questions just for clarification say. you which asked a lot of questions about science and medicine changing constantly changing evolving by the nanosecond about a millisecond you heard all of that as. i want to go to the period of time when mr chava was on the back and neck of mr floyd. did you see

him get off the back of mr floyd about a nanosecond about a millisecond by any seconds and then i minutes and 29 seconds that you saw him on no later than if you look at the 5 minutes in 3 seconds that you focused on where if you consider all the nat'l seconds a milliseconds in the 5 minutes and 3 seconds where was mr shop and the vast majority of that time he was on mr floyd snake and on his back and right not constantly changing no. now you were asked questions about what injuries were noted on autopsy yes and references made there was no injury noted to the hype off erix an autopsy occurred does that make any difference to you whatsoever none whatsoever wouldn't expect there to be anything found there. why not doctor tone because the effects on the hyper franks are not something that is going to remain at the time of the not i mean the type of changes that we see say

in somebody would sleep apnea that's not something you're going to see the following morning when you look at somebody it's just not there but there was also a reference made to the absence of bruising on the neck during autopsy does that make any difference to you whatsoever no because obviously i go to when ever i go to church i sit on a hard bandage i don't get bruising of my books when i leave so i wouldn't expect anything in terms of that so if you have somebody this was a static force it's not that it's not as if somebody is jamming against it so you wouldn't expect that way bruce and scientifically do you know of any correlation between the presence or absence of bruising on autopsy and the forces necessary to restrict breathing no they're totally different because it's in terms of static forces and dynamic. what about low oxygen if somebody has suffers for dies from low oxygen yes does that show up on autopsy no it does not

and the fact that it doesn't does that mean anything to you well so far has no meaning and why not because it is low oxygen is a function of just like an arrhythmia is a function of thing it doesn't it doesn't leave it fingerprint on the autopsy it's just there it's something that happened it's but it won't leave any fingerprint afterwards you don't see it but doesn't mean that the person didn't die from locks no absolutely not so if you take somebody in your suffocate him with a pillow and it's very clear to you after he is suffocated the person and he's dead from the pillow you're not going to see the effects of the low oxygen now you are asked quite a few questions about this of preexisting health condition kurt and really side of the number of those do any of those conditions have anything to do with the cause

of this to 4 is death in your professional opinion what's or are none whatsoever and again what was the cause such that those conditions are met the cause of that is a low level of oxygen that caused the brain damage and caused the heart to stop. you were also asked questions about substance of mista floyd system i think you were asked questions about nicotine remember that yes he didn't die from nicotine that. you asked questions about fentanyl and that he has any evidence that he died from meth no none you ask questions about whether he had ingested anything until within 5 minutes of his time of death yes now if it you explain to us that if somebody is suffering from. offense in overdose you would see a depression in the respiratory so yes and depression means some reduction in the

rate the ability to breathe correct did you see any depression in midst of lloyd's ability to breathe whatsoever before he went unconscious no absolutely not it is normal to respond very any evidence then that any fettle in a system depressed his breathing in any way whatsoever no and that's further than the carp and them and thank you doctor told the for advice or even further. 2 very quick question terms of the carbon dioxide level. you testified that it was a 96 your son and the i'm sorry i didn't you testified that the carbon dioxide was at a 96 i think it was 8989 it was also measured at $102.00 it would of the beat as one but not that they are here it is the one you need to look at. and in terms of the ingestion of are just generally speaking fat no and

also cause death as a result of low oxygen to the brain right but it would have the ability to respond really depression question is. can also cause. deaf as a result of low oxygen your answer is yes but it won't be a bar for franks. so easily just what. mr nelson brought up again fentanyl as a cause of death dr. you're familiar with the way people die from fenton is very do they or do they not go into equipment before they die from offense of an overdose yes they with was missed a fluid ever in a coma no thank you dr took ok. the hills. and we are excused ok thank you.

let's live in a breakthrough live and we all get our voices heard. so the trial of derek shave in the former minneapolis police officer who's charged with murdering george floyd continuing their day 9 we just heard from dr martin tobin and that was the defense cross-examining him and also the prosecution having a chance to restate some of the information that had come out during several hours of testimony from dr tobin who's a a long expert or specialist in lungs and he restated just now that the cause of death for george lloyd was low level of oxygen causing brain damage and the heart to stop and the defense we saw there was trying to suggest that the drugs that were in children it's a system were in part to blame and the witness that dr tobin pushing back quite hard against that let's bring in alan fischer who is live for us in minneapolis and

alan quite to compelling testimony from dr tobin. more than 4 hours from a man who's got more than 40 years experience he's a pulmonary expert with critical care expertise as well essentially he's the is a breathing expert he can tell you how the lungs work how people really what and the analyzed what happened to george boy that was a point made by the defense you got several hours to look at the video to go over it to do it in slow motion to do all the measurements all of this happened very quickly and that's something that dr tobin acknowledged but there's always the difficulty for a defense expert when here's a story a defense. attorney when he is questioning an expert someone's a lot more experience in the field than he does that some of the side don't go over the. top right you do it that correct i think it was interesting that one of the the tactics was to point to the fact that dr talwar had

a long time to look at the evidence but this all happened very quickly and he went back to the idea look if you can breathe you can. speak and we know that. said george at some point so you're suggesting that gave. the understanding that george boyd was ok that was irrelevant said dr told him because you can see you can speak and then just a couple of seconds later be dead it's interesting that the idea of fentanyl came up again we know that this is a theory that the defense has pushed that the amount of drugs in georgia system led to his death completely dismissed by a doctor told and he said the whole point was that he had a lack of breath he struggled to breathe that caused a problem with the brain and then not led to the feel of the heart. or on. the real. difficult testimony i think it would be fair to say from dr tobin as the

analyzed almost 2nd by 2nd what happened with george was how he tried to get some bread into his system but was restricted because of the way he was being held and also the fact that he was handcuffed is something the defense tried to make a point over. saying look i did did you say that situations the physics of breathing change 2nd by 2nd nanosecond by nanosecond but the prosecution made the point in the cross-examination did you see it. move off the body for a nanosecond or a 2nd no the point is that he was on george floyd either his neck or his bike for 9 minutes and 29 seconds and certainly we know that this direct testimony was very strong for the prosecution he talked about how george would try to breathe through his hands he was in such a desperate stage to try and get some breath into a system and there was the point where his legs short up which is the part of the defense see the lead that the police officers to think he was still resisting. said

dr toben that was the brain reacting trying to get some level of oxygen and it was a a. a fetal move by the brain the brain to try and get some breath into the body essentially what he was describing was the death throes of george floyd alan fischer thank you very much indeed. after an estimated $11000.00 shooting deaths so far this year u.s. president joe biden has unveiled executive actions aimed at curbing gun violence he described the situation as an epidemic biden says he will rein in self assembled or ghost guns weapons that come in kits without serial numbers and can be assembled at home is also moving to a strict arm braces that are commonly used to study a r 15 style pistols. effectively turning them into rifles pistols a subject to fewer regulations and biden says his administration will make it

easier for states to adopt red flag laws empowering judges to confiscate firearms temporarily from people determined to be a threat and he's called on congress to pass laws that would close background check new polls reinstate an assault weapons ban and repeat repeal a liability protections for gun manufacturers whether congress acts or not i'm going to use all the resources in my disposal present to keep the american people safe from gun violence but there's much more of the congress can do to help that effort and they can do it right now. they've offered plenty of thoughts and prayers members of congress but they passed not a single new federal law to reduce gun violence. and of prayers. time for some action. i speak to a white house correspondent kimberly halkett and kimberly tom fraction how difficult will he find it to get through more measures through congress.

you will find it very difficult because the u.s. president has interpreted the constitution in a way that many in the united states do not when it comes to the 2nd amendment or the right to bear arms the us constitution saying that no man has the right to infringe on those rights essentially and so the view of many in congress will be that these executive actions are doing just that are in violation of the u.s. constitution so there could be court challenges but as well i expect that there will be pushback on a lot of these measures that joe biden is calling on congress to act as well you have to remember that even though democrats largely support the president's actions there are many democrats from rural states where gun ownership is is very much a part of the culture as part of the hunting culture this will be difficult for

them so even though there is in the senate narrow majority for democrats it's not a slam dunk if you will in terms of pushing through this legislation so that is going to be an obstacle that joe biden is going to combat still he says that he believes that there is an ability to do this and he's working with congress he says he's work willing to work with republicans as well as democrats to try and get this done he says his top priority is not only sort of closing those gun show loopholes as he calls them but he also wants to go after gun manufacturers in order to remove the immunity that they currently enjoy with respect to victims of gun violence being able to go to court currently that's something they can't do in order to recover any sort of damages he wants to hold them liable so these are controversial measures but joe biden says he's taken the 1st step and now he's calling on congress to take the next one could be ok thank you very much. joining us now by

skype from boston in the united states is john rosenhaus he's a founder and chairman of the organization stop handgun violence thanks very much indeed for joining us just to go back to the active action themselves the issue of ghost guns that was brought up how big a problem would you say those are. it's a problem it's a relatively small problem but it's an easy to fix problem these are guns that are manufactured privately and don't have a serial numbers so they're harder to trace but it's a small number of guns relative to the number of guns used in crimes and the incredibly ineffective or the national gun policy that allows for unrestricted access to guns it's very hard for people outside of america to understand how insane u.s. gun policy is imo i'm a business person and a gun owner i live in massachusetts and i've been the will they advocate the lead

advocate for our strongest in the nation gun laws i'm a strong proponent up the 2nd amendment and i understand what the 2nd amendment says and i understand what the supreme court ruled in the d.c. heller case which is you can't ban guns in the common use of the time of the founding that's black powder single shot and justice scalia who wrote for the 54 majority said i don't mean assault weapons they are easily can sailed semiautomatic handguns they didn't exist and you can put reasonable restrictions on how those guns are made and sold in massachusetts urban massachusetts we have enacted the most effective gun long we've reduced the rate of gun deaths by 40 percent since 1904 we have the lowest gun death rate we have the lowest gun violence cost and and we've proven that gun laws save lives without banning most guns it's just that

our congress is lazy and cowardice and they just choose to accept blood money campaign contributions from the gun industry versus read what the 2nd amendment really says and then find their backbone and stand up against the gun in one. what about that to the businesses of one of the simple things would be to close the loophole which is the the one which allows people to buy guns without background checks at a gun show and also online is that something they that congress could agree on. they absolutely could if you go out if you change the filibuster rules after the horrific massacre at sandy hook in connecticut where 2567 year olds 267 year olds were killed and a mash routing. a law was brought up and passed the house and then went to the senate and there were not 60 senators who would support a criminal background check for online gun sales now you have to understand in

america every federally licensed gun dealer although they can work out of their homes backpacks or car trunks they're registered gun dealers they have to run a background check but if you're a criminal or a domestic or international terrorist and you know you can't pass a background check you can go to 32 states 5000 gun shows private be a lawyers and buy a 1000 guns a day so it's of you could drive a sherman tank through the loophole so you need universal background checks for all gun sales i'm a gun owner i know i can pass a background check so i go to a federally licensed gun dealer if you're a criminal you'd be stupid to go to a federally licensed gun dealer because you could just go to private dealers who sell 50 percent of all guns without background checks or or any proof of id also in america i know it's crazy for you to even contemplate every single day there

are 100 gun deaths 150 gun injuries and a mass shooting of 4 or more people with military style assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines greater than 10 rounds since january 1 of this year there have been 126 mass shootings 150 people dead 500 people injured and just in the last 2 weeks there's been another 61 john reza thank you very much indeed and i'm sorry to interrupt but we're running at a time thank you very much. might of the top stories here on jazeera u.s. president joe biden has announced a series of measures to tackle gun violence.