vente new diseases from imagining the recall the 1st known cases of corona virus in china were linked to a food market in where wild animals were sold the w.h.o. says animals are the source of 70 percent of new infectious diseases in humans. that this is al jazeera and these are the headlines police have used tear gas and flash grenades to disperse protesters and incense and ministers and demonstrators rally there for a 3rd night against the fatal police shooting of an unarmed black man on sunday the officer who shot down to ride on the police chief has both resigned and fishes at the scene for us in brooklyn santa but you can see that the anger in the community here is no dissipated even with the with resignation they want to see something more significant something more substantial and you can hear the police helicopter in here and we've seen. people here threw bottles and doing the police cars as the

driven by but i have got to see that 1st of all there was a few fireworks directed towards the police but nothing that was reaching the police lines then the police to player this i don't know for the simply that's when we started to see the tear gas being fired and the police moving it in right here in significant numbers well less than 20 kilometers away an expert on the use of force has testified at the trial of derrick shows when he says the police officer was justified and pinning george floyd to the ground because there was frantic resistance and contradicts the testimonies of top police officials who have said that 7 used excessive force in the us city of minneapolis. u.s. president joe biden has reportedly decided to withdraw all remaining american troops from afghanistan by the chamber 11 means the u.s. will miss the deadline of may the fast set by the trumpet in a stray ssion. and the u.s. president has also urged that new person to deescalate tensions with ukraine russia

has already dismissed nature's call for it to withdraw the forces that it's deploying near the ukrainian border the president for trees to lawn has won a 2nd term in an election marred by violence and low versatile out early results shirts alone received 86 percent of the vote. south korea has reported more than $700.00 new covered $1000.00 cases that's the highest daily rise since january health experts are warning a 4th wave is nearing custer's spread from greater soul to more than a dozen regions and cities and that's despite strict social distancing rules the government is also ramping up its vaccine rollout and is now looking to use testing kits every year for millions of years decades of talk good little action it's all about just create confusion to create smoke and mirrors the shocking truth about how the climate debate has been systematically subverted the oil industry was a big roller or opposition after the campaign against the climate do you think

that's a bad thing more good wishes you could see absolutely. 0. hi i'm femi oke a today on the stream can you wants to huge refugee camps closed and he's demanding the united nations does that immediately but what do you do with more than 400000 people when the host country no longer wants to host them if you're new to this is a conversation that you are very much invited to be and jump into the comment section and you too can be in the stream but right now let's start with some perspectives from people who know what it's like to be a refugee. but. most of it if you just think it is not safe for them to be taken back to your home countries would be left because i mean security reasons and now we have cause to be in

a budget bug i think it will be the. last 10 years i only think of the shallows and treaties that we can speak to. italy in the live show we would use. so to say them. thank you and your hosted for well over 30 years and it will not be robots will again i'm going to. try the old such a stir people living will be forced bark of the countries and this is not going to be followed very crucial because more the use lawsuits will far are more. voluntary the will agree involved. thoughts for people who've experienced refugee life in kenya joining our conversation today we have a room go we have wind we have katherine good to see the guests are wrong go tell everybody what you did. good evening and thanks for having us on the show and i

mean is there in the house and i serve on the city international. executive director for kenya and i'm based in nairobi welcome hello when they introduce yourself to international audience good evening everyone my name is or individual or i'm a security council consultant based in there are between you know my work is mainly in counterterrorism and if you haven't seen katherine so his work on al-jazeera go not watching out just when you're not paying attention katherine remind everybody what you do. you know my name is catherine sorry i'm a correspondent based here in kenya i mostly cover east and central africa good to have to you now this is not the 1st time that kenya has demanded that refugee camp speak close let me take you back to the minister of interior in 2016 have a look. i want to reform the word. that the

decision to come. interior in kenya says we've given you 2 weeks united nations u.n. aid which is the u.n. agency that takes care of refugees give me 2 weeks to come up with a plan caffrey how come we are revisiting this story again this situation again the minister of interior 2016 said this is final the camps are closing. now well it's not quite it it's not quite fine or let me just start by saying that this matar is now in court there was a party that was filed and the judge put an injunction on the government from doing anything on the comes into the case is hard in a month's time so the genesis of this spammy as you mentioned is this announcement by the interior cabinet secretary in march giving the unit c.r. and all to me time to come up with a report and the units you are did come up with

a report 1st talking about all the challenges of you know repack treating 400 in their teeth 1000 are g.'s in these 2 comes to mind the northwest and in the north east so the units you are says it's impossible to do this in the middle of a pandemic and the protection of refugees should be a parity they're also pro ozols in that. in that report so you knew you'd see our said that the government needs to give it time for when you can tarry repack to go on for the refugees were supposed to be settled in 3rd countries and also asked the government if it could concede into the community reintegration particularly of refugees who have been here since the start refugees who were born in this country and who feel that kenya is their home country so they report this proposals have been rejected by the ministry i think i saw some media reports that

the units you are was asking for some time i think until the end of 2022 just to put the logistics in place but the government has said no we need a more reasonable acceptable timeframe but then the minister is also turning down on his march you know very combative stance that you know ultimatums and things like that so the minute. this is that they still rule for negotiating so that usa and the ministry of interior negotiate are still talking and i don't think from he stored that there's going to be any drastic action anytime soon. what do you think spot face this initial. one comes close now. well obviously i can't speak for the governor of kenya but i think they have said a couple of times that they have concerns about environmental degradation in places like that dab in the 3 camps that are there they have major concerns about the 79

percent funding gap. from the humanitarian. you know bodies there is concerns and of course we're in the middle of a diplomatic between the somali and kenya government with regards to who owns who who controls parts of the indian ocean so this these are some of the other issues but i think the one that we have heard most consistently is the issue of massive national security and i think this has to be put in context in many in many ways we're not back in 20152016 when we saw attacks in my university as we saw a number of every brazen repeated attacks on kenyan soil this is a particular period which there it seems to be a lull in terms of attacks by al shabaab so it's not really clear at this moment why this national security imperative is being brought forward and i think we should also mention that besides the case that catherine spoke about in the high court at the moment in 2017 a high court pronounced

a judgment that said you cannot visit an evacuation or a program on 512000 to be correct that figure that was said earlier we have a combined number of 512000 people refugees in kenya. and you cannot become all half a 1000000 of them on the basis of the fact that some of them have been engaged in terrorism even if there are in the camps this would be ludicrous if you tried to attempt this medium sized town senshi to arrest or to to displace a whole town just simply because you want to go after a few violent terrorists i think these are the arguments that we've heard from the government i said let me bring in who i'm to have went out to see each of comment from prime wangle that is that camp is more of a terrorist splitting camp than the refugee camp or pick up that thought.

i think you actually government. right now as in national security reasons like my fellow panelists mention environment or funding of that but the main cause which takes about 80 percent of government a reason to want to close these gaps is national security and this is also mentioned in now in the in the refugee i mean in the in the geneva convention or if it is a government oil hosting country they call it a common contract and country can actually even interfere with issues when there are issues of national security involved and saw the government of kenya since 2011 when our our forces crossed over into somalia to pursue the terrorists are there was increased or was attacks on across this country. you know in universities in shopping malls in charge and these these these attacks culminated into

an intelligence report where our government was you know has a responsibilities planted on the roads no progress at bob's killing mainly police and security even though i doubt reason and i just had our own guy say that that there haven't been as many attacks recently and you're saying something completely different actually i would actually want to differ with him because there have been increased roadside bombs and now you display on the roadside one as recent that's 2 weeks ago where it in missed the security button that was supposed to block. a civilian bus killing you know hard for people and injuring so many others so there has been an increased the generally no one has the attacks you can trace back to. it's out of your sale i jump into if you're not honest if you debts not relevant is that to me jump in there ever look at what's out there that says it didn't leave it again for i don't think amps out of every religious report they say it they are

following sleeper cells in there if you do caps that eating these there was a tax. so i was just going to say that you know the argument and i think we have to really be careful about the language i mean the idea that refugees are somehow like most utils that they breed in swamps in camps this is in a far bigger and actually prejudicial against people who have essentially fled out of fear and a lack of security in themselves and that that is the reality for many of the people in the camps. yesterday a young 22 year old creighton. 3 an l g b t i q an activist and a refugee died of a fire bombing that took place in kakuma come about a week ago and a couple of weeks ago and you know we've had other cases where many of the refugees actually rather than perpetuating acts of violence are actually fearful for their own lives and i think this this is the reality for the majority of people in those

camps and painting the entire camp as a training camp for al shabaab or any other terrorist group is actually picking the false and just not borne out by the evidence it is definitely the case that there have been and i don't want to minimize the loss of our security officers or people who have died as a result of the i.d.f. attacks that when they speaking about but i think it's really critical to to make the point or to ask the question is there concrete evidence that these attacks can be traced back to the camp or are these essentially cells that are coming across the border from somalia and for that matter are a danger not just to kenyans but to refugees as well. let me let me go quickly to dictionary and their politics is to cut a broad but really the government will never reveal what intelligence they got that they'll never make it public that we we spied on someone's before we looked at their phone data we followed their conduct and it's called the refugee camps but when the government speaks and when the minister for national security speaks i

think we owe him some some sense of duty to actually believe him or respect his opinion that being open in the government. of clear is sleeper cells into refugee camps i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he means that i am bringing captain here cafe the new chief of us are talking about this is also an awesome and thank you for being part of this conversation talking about america time dispute with somalia i will car picks up on that dispute have a listen to his comment catherine come off the back and put it in the context of the idea of having to close to huge refugee camps is there a connection have a. very happy with. this between. the barrel cut for a beautiful malia but. it's not. the only people who are going

to bring food for the likes of us to. be able. to look good for the peace of kenya. for. a. relationship between somalia and kenya is that be behind the idea of always half a 1000000 people having to find new homes. well the minister has said these no link between this diplomatic problems that kenya is having with somalia and what the announcement that he's being he's made but then a lot of people are thing that there is a link but because the relationship between somalia and kenya has been forced for quite a while somalia has often for example you know accused kenya of interfering in its political affairs especially in the lead up to the election which has now stalled in december somalia cut diplomatic with kenya and then in that issue that he talked about on the merry time dispute with both countries including this hour

a 100000 square kilometer triangle in the indian ocean that he seemed to be reached in gas and oil both countries claimed that they are the rich countries you know exploiting and you know least. some of those blocks are these a case in quote somalia kenya. international i.c.j. kenya has withdrawn from that case so even if the minister say that you know whatever is happening now is not linked to you know the force to relations a lot of people are saying that this is a way of kenya putting their pressure on somalia to tone down yes let's talk about logistics stand because they're beginning to understand a get a more clearer vision of paps what might be behind kenya's decision to want the camps close finally eventually. but what about the logistics this is devon talking about the logistics have a listen. if the kenyan government were to close their oath e.g.

council to dive into a coma quickly or that probably plans in place that respect international refugee law it would be absolutely devastating for tens of thousands of refugees there are about 430000 refugees from these 15 different countries in the camps most refugees living in the dub are from somalia and many of the refugees in the kumar from south sudan so where would they go what would they do so obvious certainly isn't safe to return to and many parts of south sudan aren't safe either also many of the refugees are born and raised in the camps all they know is kenya the kenyan government has a responsibility to find some sustainable solutions so many questions devon post right there but the logistics are wrong the u.n.h.c.r. have been trying to repatriate people then they ran out of money and kenya seems extremely serious this time around about those camps closing what logistically can be done. well i think the the plan that was put forward by the unit that has been

rejected by the government in terms of its timetable raised some of the complexity of this i mean 1st of all not everybody in these camps is going back to somalia you've got people from the d.r. see you know upwards of 5 to 6 different countries that you would have to re repatriate or relocate over this period and i think the 1st thing to say is that you know i think as devon has said is that you know we have had 30 years and one of the reasons that i am proud to be a kenyan is that i come from a country that has provided sanctuary for a refugees for 30 years and the numbers comparative to some of the countries in that are much richer and much more wealthy really you know there's a there's a real fair share of responsibility on this but i think kenya has done this out of an obligation not just in terms of international or in respect to international conventions but also our own kenyan laura that we have a responsibility to protect but i think the logistics just simply cannot be done in a haphazard way let me just give you some of the complexity the 1st is that you

know obvious one we are in a pandemic there has been not planned to vaccinate any of these areas fiji's to make sure that they can be repatriated safely and for many of these countries they're actually have been bans on border transfer. crossing of borders at a point like this the 2nd option would be for them to be relocated to 3rd countries now we've seen with even prior to call it but definitely drink of it that many countries have actually stopped there at settlement plans and therefore countries like norway sweden and canada that have started glee being supportive are not doing this anymore and therefore there is no option really to settle them in 3rd countries and the 3rd and most important thing really is that many of the countries as we've heard already by some of the refugee spokespersons is that you know many of these countries are unstable they are violent and. weak states so we are very much faced with

a situation that like in 20152016 we repatriated voluntarily and it has to be voluntarily under international law it is 6000 people but many of them returned because there was simply no schools for their children to go to there were no livelihood for them to pick up and it was nor you know kind of health care available for them and i think the last one perhaps maybe is thinking about this is that you know for many people we tend to forget that many of these people in the comes are you know born in those camps they have got married in those camps they are as kenyan as many of us who live outside of the camps and for that reason this is a delicate process that needs to be managed with care and ensuring that we do not have an haphazard and disastrous humanitarian operation at this point see catherine and i know you don't care about you here you to have a news don't stories about the dark camp and cocoon the camp and you spoken to

people who've has lived to have big chunks of their life not all of their lives so i know you will not die right now because of covert but can you explain to me how many of the people that you spoke to thank think about the dop and cocoon there and when they are in a position where that may not be that home going forward what does that tell you. let me the 1st very briefly speak about the voluntary repace show that you were talking about into the 16 i extensively covered that repace a sion and i did speak to people who were going back home and i called some of the people in this period who are still in i.d.p. comes in somalia and able to get health care unable to just get the basic needs i in 2017 i went back to dob and i spoke to people who i had interviewed going to somalia and they had returned to the cons because it was too dangerous in the

whole areas where they had where they had gone to so the situation is more or less the same i have spoken to a lot of people in this period and i mean the sentiments i just like it was in pain to 16 there's a lot of fun back into it a lot of a lot of people who were born that i like where are we going to go and you know in couple months for example we have refugees from other countries in the region who still feel that it's very unsafe for them to go back and i spoke to them as well so they're very worried about that they're aware that you know the court blocked things in 2017 and now there's also a ruling perhaps it's government rhetoric but a lot of people saying that you know this thing keeps repeating itself we're ready one time the government makes good its threat where will they go with iraq is a sentiment a lot of a lot of us i think in those comes. in she seen just conversation the closing

moments of our conversation israel he's an international security check i'm going to put his thoughts to human wind let's have a listen. maybe the dual tendency in iran of this us to be the solution to this charlie is the us and sure nuff royal shit human needs to go through all of that into groups do use all the kids coming as it is national security issues issues made legs a diet but also all the move will affect the human security all the most vulnerable especially these rich we devalue shooting elected so what i'm i'm hearing them wind is there's a negotiation that has to happen that is currently happening what do you think is the best case scenario that we could help for. thank you. actually i'm very delighted that after. the announcement by the minister has been almost you

know activities every word their wills are telling you know at the international level or in the local levels in fact that 111 party that is missing in these negotiations are the mother countries of these people have not seen representatives from south sudan or from the government of somalia of. you know or it's obvious that if you just come from come to the table and say we are interested parties into these negotiations but as the government has made this announcement all these players are coming to the table and as my brother. said in that clip that he played over there that the security researcher yes we need to listen to each other this is this is the international system in the international system they are not salutes we listen to each other. present their case. in a percentage of the c.r. and human human rights groups are honest international how those 3 percent of priests in the abuse and people listen to each other if we listen to each other for

sure there is going to be an amicable solution and i tell you the ultimate solution that the government of king is looking for in the safety of its people the city of the city of its security agencies that are working in these areas the city of the citizens of this country do not forget that the government prosperous sponsibility is all citizen needs to secure this country no mother the price of the house to pay for that and just looking into some of the comments that people are reacting to guesses as you are actually speaking he says the kenya alone cannot really integrate the number of people in the camps it's important to recognize the challenges kenya faces in relation to the camps being open and growing and science needs collective action this is going to be an instant reaction gas 5 years time what a tab and cooma still exist. well we don't know and i think. a point about you know dialogue i think is critical and i think it's including the

guy that is critical when death. and they still exist in 5 years' time no. catherine. i think without a lot of pressure the government is putting on you and it's you are another part and i was i don't think it will exist in 5 years dying will i be here in 5 years time to do that show who knows thank you very much catherine warned iran go and you cheat us for your comments and your questions appreciate your asking you next time take everybody. to. the a. a star striker in the top the top in the what they voted to the working class of his

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