to have a majority in congress which means she could easily be ousted. this 5 year term in the july with the 5th president sworn in and for many disenchanted with politics the new vote will be like choosing between one illness or another. just might be to. 0 these are our top stories india has announced another record daily high of coronavirus cases almost 185001 of the hardest hit states is maharashtra which is introducing tough new restrictions on wednesday as a problem has more from new delhi problem when stay in evening in the state of mind no one will be allowed to go out other than to go out for work or to get essential supplies and only essential services will be open until the end of the month that

follows continuing to be the worst affected state continue to add more cases accounting for at least a quarter of all the cases in the country sometimes as many as a 3rd sometimes as many as half of the cases south korea has reported its highest any rise in cases of covert 19 since january more than 700 over the past day. or warning a 4th wave is looming in spread from grace's soul to more than a dozen regions and says he is the government's been criticised for a slow vaccine rollout the us will not pull out its troops from afghanistan by a deadline set from may president joe biden is expected to announce a withdrawal will not take place by september 11th the afghan taliban say they won't participate in talks until foreign forces leave. police in minnesota have use flash grenades and tear gas to disperse crowds gathered after the fatal shooting of a black man the police chief has resigned along with the officer who shot the 20 year old during a traffic stop. defense testimony has begun in the trial of former minneapolis

policeman derek show than he's accused of murdering george freud's an expert on the use of force says 7 was justified and penning floyd to the ground. and south korea's president wants the international tribunal for the north of the sea to examine japan's decision to release water from its fukushima nuclear plant to the water has been treated and doesn't pose any risks it plans to dump a 1000000 tons of contaminated water into the sea from the facility which was damaged in an earthquake and tsunami 10 years ago but china and south korea have both criticized the decision those are your headlines we're back with another bullet some hair on al-jazeera that's after the strain to say whether. the cast of latitude was written on his party since the 1959 revolution is power is hunted over to be guilty as can we look at the situation in the country today this is the end of the but continuation of the legacy or the beginning of real change in

cuba special coverage has rolled past 2 steps down on al-jazeera. hi i'm femi oke a today on the stream kenya wants to huge refugee camps closed and he's demanding the united nations does that immediately but what do you do with more than 400000 people when the host country no longer wants to host them if you and this is a conversation that you are very much invited to and jump into the comments section and you too can be in the stream but right now let's start with some perspectives from people who know what it's like to be a refugee. but mixed reaction in that it would get done most of it if you just think it is not fair for them to be taken back to your home countries with the left because i mean security reasons and now they have the absolute cause to be it up

but didn't bug i think it was. the air force genuine i only link to the actual laws and duties that it has been but if. you truly endangered the lives of the reduce their soul to save them in kenya and kenya all stood for well over that years and it will not be profitable again in government to. carry out such a step people living there will be forced bulk of the countries and this is not going to be followed very crucial because more the review laws in its will far are more to follow gary to be will and very involved in the well in the people good thoughts for people who've experienced refugee life in kenya joining our conversation today we have a wrong go we have why we have catherine good to see them cast around go tell everybody what you did. good evening and thanks for having us on the show and i

mean is there in the house and i serve on the city international as the executive director for kenya and i'm based in nairobi welcome hello when they introduce yourself to international audience good evening everyone my name is on there but you are i'm a security council consultant based in nairobi kenya my work is mainly in counterterrorism and if you haven't seen catherine so his work on al-jazeera go not watching out just going and not paying attention catherine remind everybody here you are what you doing. you know my name is catherine sorry i'm a correspondent based here in kenya but i mostly cover east and central africa good to have you now this is not the 1st time that kenya has demanded that refugee camps be closed let me take you back to the minister of interior in 2016 have a look. i want to reform the road so. that the decision to gov come.

were not quite that final this is march 24th of this year when a ministry of interior in kenya says we've given you 2 weeks united nations un 8 c.r. which is the u.n. agency that takes care of refugees give me 2 weeks to come up with a plan caffrey how come we are revisiting this story again this situation again the minister of interior 2016 said this is final the camps are closing. now well it's not quite it's not quite fine or let me just start by saying that this matar is now in court there was a party that was filed and the judge put an injunction on the government from doing anything on the comes into the case is hard in a month's time so the genesis of this penny as you mentioned is this announcement by the interior cabinet secretary in march giving the unit c.r.

and all to me time to come up with a report and the units you are did come up with a report 1st talking about all the challenges of you know repack treating 400 in the 50000 or if you g.'s in these 2 comes to mind the northwest and. the north east so that you want to see our cities it's impossible to do this in the middle of a pandemic and the protection of refugees should be a parity they're also pro ozols in that. in that report so you knew you'd see are said that the government needs to give it time for when you can tarry repack to go on for the refugees were supposed to be settled in 3rd countries and also ask the government if it could concede into the community integration particularly of refugees who have been here since the start refugees who were born in this country and who feel that kenya is their home country so they report this

proposals have been rejected by the ministry i think i saw some media reports that the units you are was asking for some time i think until the end of 2022 just to put the logistics in place but the government has said no we need a more reasonable acceptable timeframe but then the minister is also turning down on his march you know very combative stance that you know ultimatums and things like that so the minute. this is that they still rule for negotiating so that usa and the ministry of interior negotiate are still talking and i don't think from he stored that there's going to be any drastic action any time soon. what do you think spot faced this initial. one comes close now. well obviously i can't speak for the governor of kenya but i think they have said a couple of times that they have concerns about environmental degradation in places

like that dab in the 3 camps that are there they have major concerns about the 79 percent funding gap. from the humanitarian. you know bodies there is concerns and of course we're in the middle of a diplomatic tift between the somali and kenya government with regards to who owns who controls parts of the indian ocean so this these are some of the other issues but i think the one that we have heard most consistently is the issue of massive national security and i think this has to be put in context in many in many ways we're not back in 20152016 when we saw attacks in my university as we saw a number of every brazen repeated attacks on kenyan soil this is a particular period which there it seems to be a lull in terms of attacks by al shabaab so it's not really clear at this moment why this national security imperative is being brought forward and i think we should also mention that the besides the case that catherine spoke about in the

high court at the moment in 2017 a high court pronounced a judgment that said you cannot visit an evacuation or a program on 512000 to be correct that figure that was said earlier we have a combined number of 512000 people refugees in kenya. and you cannot become all half a 1000000 of them on the basis of the fact that some of them have been engaged in terrorism even if there are in the camps this would be ludicrous if you tried to attempt this medium sized town senshi to arrest or to to displace a whole town just simply because you want to go after a few violent terrorists so i think these are the arguments that we've heard from the government i said let me bring in who i am to have went out to see each of comrade from prime wangle that is that camp is more of a terrorist splitting camp than the refugee camp pick up that thought.

i think you actually government. right now has been national security reasons like my fellow panelists mention environmental funding and of the main cause which takes about 80 percent of government a reason to want to close these gaps is national security and this is also mentioned in now in the in the refugee i mean in the in the geneva convention or refugees government on a hosting country they call it a common contract and country can actually even interfere with issues when there are issues of national security involved and saw the government of kenya since 2011 when our forces crossed over into somalia to pursue the terrorist group. there was increased there was attacks on across this country than what you know in

universities in shopping malls in charge and these these these attacks culminated into an intelligence report where our government was you know has a responsibility to find out where these problems come from literally in the last year or so or they have been almost countless i.d.'s planted on the roads no bombs killing mainly police and security is on the line to have resumed i just had our own guy say that that there haven't been as many attacks recently and you're saying something completely different actually i would actually want to differ with him because there have been increased roadside bombs and now you display on the roadside one as recent that's 2 weeks ago where it in missed the security button that was supposed to block. a civilian bus killing you know hard for people and injuring so many others so there has been an increased the generally one has the attacks you can trace back to. it's out of your sail and jump into if you're not

honest if you debts not relevant is that to me jump in the ever look at what's out there that says it didn't leave it again for i don't think amps out of every village is reported they say they are following sleeper cells in their overdue caps that are aiding these terrorist attacks. so i was just going to say that you know the argument and i think we have to really be careful about the language i mean the idea that refugees are somehow like mosquitoes that they breed in swamps in camps this is in a far bigger and actually prejudicial against people who have essentially fled out of fear and a lack of security it themselves and that that is the reality for many of the people in the camps. yesterday a young 22 year old creighton to wear a n l g b t i q an activist and a refugee died of a fire bombing that took place in kakuma come about a week ago and a couple of weeks ago and you know we've had other cases where many of the refugees

actually rather than perpetuating acts of violence are actually fearful for their own lives and i think this is this is the reality for the majority of people in those camps and painting the entire camp as a training camp for al-shabaab or any other terrorist group is actually picked on the force and just not borne out by the evidence it is definitely the case that there have been and i don't want to minimize the loss of our security officers or people who have died as a result of the i.d.f. attacks that when they speaking about but i think it's really critical to to make the point or to ask the question is there concrete evidence that these attacks can be traced back to the camp or are these essentially cells that are coming across the border from somalia and for that matter are a danger not just to kenyans but to refugees as well. let me let me go quickly to dictionary and their politics is to cut a broad but really the government will never reveal what intelligence they got that

they'll never make it public but we we spied on someone's before we looked at their phone data we followed their conduct and it's called the refugee camps but when the government speaks and when the minister for national security speaks i think we owe him some sense of duty to actually believe him or respect his opinion and that big government. of clearest sleeper cells into refugee camps i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the minute i am going in cap and head cafe the new chief of us are talking about this is also an awesome and thank you for being part of this conversation talking about america time dispute with somalia abu car picks up on that dispute however listen to his comment katherine come off the back and put it in the context of the idea of having to close to huge refugee camps is there a connection have a. very happy with. the woman

to. marry this between. the barrier of current for a beautiful malia but the crew to cover it it's not. the only people who are going to benefit from the likes of us from our work to. be able. to look good for the peace of kenya. for. a. relationship between somalia and kenya is that be behind the idea of always half a 1000000 people having to find new homes. well the minister has said these no link between this diplomatic problems that kenya is having with somalia and what the announcement that he's being he's made but then a lot of people are thing that there is a link but because the relationship between somalia and kenya has been foresee for quite a while somalia has often for example you know accused kenya of interfering in its political affairs especially in the lead up to the election which has now stalled

in december somalia cut diplomatic ties with kenya and then in that issue that he talked about on the merry time dispute with both countries including this hour a 100000 square kilometer triangle in the indian ocean that he seemed to be reached in gas and oil both countries claimed that they are the rich countries you know exploiting and you know least. some of those blocks are these a case in quote somalia kenya. international i.c.j. kenya has withdrawn from that case so even if the minister say that you know whatever is happening now is not linked to you know the force to relations a lot of people are saying that this is a way of kenya putting no pressure on somalia to tone down yes let's talk about logistics them because they're beginning to understand a get a more clear vision of paps what might be behind kenya's decision to want the camps

close finally eventually. but what about the logistics this is devon talking about the logistics have a listen. if the kenyan government were to close their own city council to dive into a coma quickly or that proper plans in place that respect international refugee law it would be absolutely devastating for tens of thousands of refugees there about 430000 refugees from at least 15 different countries in the camps most refugees living in the dub are from somalia and many of the refugees in the kumar from south sudan so where they go what would they do smoggiest certainly isn't safe to return to and many parts of south sudan aren't safe either also many of the refugees are born and raised in the camps all they know is kenya so the kenyan government has a responsibility to find some sustainable solutions so many questions devon post right there but the logistics are wrong the u.n.h.c.r. have been trying to repatriate people then they ran out of money and kenya seems

extremely serious this time around about those camps closing what logistically can be done. well i think the the plan that was put forward by the unit that has been rejected by the government in terms of its timetable raised some of the complexity of this i mean 1st of all not everybody in these camps is going back to somalia you've got people from the d.r. see you know upwards of 5 to 6 different countries that you would have to re repatriate or relocate over this period and i think the 1st thing to say is that you know i think as devon has said is that you know we have had 30 years and one of the reasons that i am proud to be a kenyan is that i come from a country that has provided sanctuary for a refugees for 30 years and the numbers comparative to some of the countries in that are much richer and much more wealthy really you know there's a there's a real fair share of responsibility on this but i think kenya has done this out of an obligation not just in terms of international or

a respect for international conventions but also our own kenyan laura that we have a responsibility to protect but i think the logistics just simply cannot be done in a haphazard way let me just give you some of the complexity the 1st is that you know obvious one we are in a pandemic there has been no plan to vaccinate any of these areas fiji's to make sure that they can be repatriated safely and for many of these countries they're actually have been bans on border transfer. crossing of borders at a point like this the 2nd option would be for them to be relocated to 3rd countries now we've seen with even prior to call it but definitely drink of it that many countries have actually stopped their resettlement plans and therefore countries like norway sweden and canada that have started glee being supportive are not doing this anymore and therefore there is no option really to settle them in 3rd countries and the 3rd and most important thing really is that many of the countries

as we've heard already by some of the refugee spokespersons is that you know many of these countries are unstable they are violent and. weak states so we are very much faced with a situation that like in 20152016 we repatriated voluntarily and it has to be voluntarily under international law it is 6000 people but many of them returned because there was simply no schools for their children to go to there were no livelihood for them to pick up and it was nor you know kind of health care available for them and i think the last one perhaps maybe is thinking about this is that you know for many people we tend to forget that many of these people in the comes are you know born in those camps they have got married in those camps they are as kenyan as many of us who live outside of the camps and for that reason this is a delicate process that needs to be managed with care and ensuring that we do not have an haphazard and disastrous humanitarian operation at this point see catherine i

know you don't care about you here you took haven't you done stories about the doll camp and cocoon the camp and you spoken to people who've lived to have a big chunk of their life if not all of their lives so i know you will not die right now because of covert but can you explain to me how many of the people that you spoke to thank think about the dop and cocoon there and when they are in a position where that may not be that home going forward what do they tell you. let me just 1st very briefly speak about the voluntary patches that you was talking about into the 16 i extensively covered that repace action and i did speak to people who were going back home and i called some of the people in this period who are still in i.d.p. comes in somalia unable to get health care unable to just get the basic needs i

mean 27000 i went back to dob and i spoke to people who i had interviewed going to somalia and they had returned to the cons because it was too dangerous in the home areas where they had where they had gone to so the situation is more or less the same i have spoken to a lot of people in this period and i mean the sentiments i just like it was in pain to 16 there's a lot of packed into that a lot of a lot of people who were born that i like where are we going to go and you know in couple months for example we have refugees from other countries in the region who still feel that it's a very unsafe for them to go back and i spoke to them as well so they're very worried about that they're aware that you know the court broke things in 2017 and now there's also a ruling perhaps it's government rhetoric but a lot of people saying that you know this thing keeps repeating itself and we're

already one time the government makes good its threats where will they go with black is a sentiment a lot of fear a lot of us i think in those comes. in she's seen just conversation the closing moments of our conversation israel he's an international security check i'm going to put his thoughts to you more and that's have a listen. maybe even the dual tendency in iran of this us to be the solution to this charlie is the us and should look for humanistic approach that into grimm's the views of mortgages coming as it is national security issues issues made legs a diet but also all the move will affect the human security all the most vulnerable especially these rich we devalue shooting elected so what i'm i'm hearing them wind is there's a negotiation that has to happen. what do you think is the best case

scenario that we could help. thank you. actually i'm very delighted that after. the announcement by the minister has been almost you know activities every word their wills are telling you know at the international level or in the local levels in fact that 111 party that is missing in these negotiations are the mother countries of these people have not seen representatives from south sudan or from the government of somalia or from. or. just come from come to the table and say we are interested parties into these negotiations but as the government has made this announcement all these players are coming to the table and as my brother . said in that clip that he played over there that the security researcher yes we need to listen to each other this is this is the international system in the international system they are not salutes we listen to each other. present their case. their pursuit of the c

r and human human rights groups of the international happens to be send a present to our views and people listen to each other if we listen to each other for sure there is going to be an amicable solution and i tell you the ultimate solution that the government of can is looking for in the safety of its people the city of the city of its security agencies that are working in these areas the city of the citizens of this country do not forget that the government response ability is all citizen needs to secure this country no matter the price of the house to pay for that and just looking ahead to some of the comments that people are reacting to guesses as you are actually speaking he says the kenya alone cannot really integrate the number of people in the camps it's important to recognize the challenges kenya faces in relation to the camps being open and growing and science in its collective action this is going to be an instant reaction gas 5 years time what

a dab and cocoon mess still exist. well we don't know and i think when does the point about you know dialogue i think is critical including the guy that is critical when to dub and they still exist in 5 years time no. kathryn and i think without a lot of pressure the government is putting on you and it's you are another part and i was i don't think it will exist in 5 years dying will i be here in 5 years time to do that show who knows thank you very much catherine. wrong and you cheat us for your comments and your questions appreciate you asking you next time take everybody.

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climate do you think that's a bad thing. it was fierce you could see absolutely. 0. chance . south africa suspends you so the johnson and johnson covert 19 vaccine safety concerns. there are more there alive from also coming up until a new u.s. troop withdrawal from afghanistan president biden is expected to announce a pullout by september the 11th. some obvious president mohamed up the line he signs.