$1000000000.00 and these games prime minister suga i think is staking his claim to perhaps extending his prime ministership on making these games successful so the japanese public cannot back off and so the games go on tokyo sold itself as a safe pair of hands when it won the right to host the games in 2013 that claim is now being tested in a way few would have thought possible and the richardson al-jazeera. this is al jazeera and these are the top stories the u.s. sector state says nato allies will coordinate to withdrawal of forces from afghanistan president joe biden is set to announce that he will pull out all american troops by september 11th means he misses a may deadline set by his predecessor or together we have achieved the goals that we we set out to achieve and now it is time to bring our

forces home we will work very closely together in the weeks and months ahead on a safe deliberate and coordinated withdrawal of our forces from afghanistan but even as we do that. our commitment to afghanistan to its future will remain. the trial of former minneapolis police officer derrick chevron has just started and the defense is calling witnesses to the stand but it's expected to wrap up before the end of the week is accused of murdering george floyd by kneeling on his neck for more than 9 minutes. somalia's president mohammed of the law he has extended his time in office for 2 more years his mandate ran out in february sparking protests demanding he step down but there's been no agreement about how to hold elections. so the african says a local study on the johnson and johnson covert 19 vaccine showed no major safety concerns and yet it is decided to suspend its use over concerns raised in the

united states that it could be linked to blood clots the single dose vaccine was the only one being administered but it does have other traces on order from pfizer . india has announced another record daily high of new cases of covert 90 just short of 185000 registered in the past day that's around twice as many as brazil and the united states with 2 other worst hit countries. former finance convicted fraudster bernie madoff has died aged 82 in a u.s. federal prison in 2009 he pleaded guilty to orchestrating the largest ponzi scheme in american history cheating investors out of up to 60 $5000000000.00 it was handed a 150 year sentence for defrauding tens of thousands of people for the $970.00 s. what's. your today with headlines more news coming up right after the stream. we understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. so no

matter where you come. out to 0 bringing you the news and current affairs that matter to. al-jazeera. i. have for me ok today on the stream can you wants to huge refugee camps closed and he's demanding the united nations does that immediately but what do you do with more than 400000 people when the host country no longer wants to host them if you're a new chain this is a conversation that you are very much invited to be and jump into the comment section and you too can be in the stream but right now let's start with some perspectives from people who know what it's like to be a refugee. but mickey reaction in the immediate term most of it if you just think

it is not so for them to be taken back to your home countries with the left because i mean security reasons and now they have cause to be budgeted but i think it will . be the. last 10 years of failing i think of national laws and treaties that it has been but you know. italy endangered the lives of the reduce. so to say them in kenya in kenya hosted for well over the 2 years and it will not be profitable again in government to i carry out such a step people leaving the bulk of the countries in this is not going to be voluntary cooperation because you laws in so far are more. very. very involved in the. thoughts for people who've experienced refugee life in kenya joining our conversation today we have

a wrong go we have wind we have catherine good to see you guessed wrong go tell everybody who you are what you did. good evening and thanks for having us on the show i mean is there in the house and i serve on this the international. executive director for kenya and i'm based in nairobi welcome hello when they introduce yourself to international audience good evening everyone my name is or individual i'm a security council consultant based in arabic you know my work is mainly counterterrorism and if you haven't seen kathryn stories work on al-jazeera go not watching out to see when you're not paying attention katherine remind everybody what you do. you know my name is catherine sorry i'm a correspondent based here in kenya but i mostly cover east and central africa good to have you now this is not the 1st time that kenya has demanded that refugee camp speak close let me take you back to the minister of interior in 2016 have

a look. i want to inform the world. that the decision to gov comp. is final were not quite that final this is march 24th of this year when a ministry of interior in kenya says we've given you 2 weeks united nations un 8 c.r. which is the u.n. agency that takes care of refugees give me 2 weeks to come up with a plan caffrey how come we are revisiting this story again this situation again the minister of interior 2016 said this is final the camps are closing. now well it's not like it's not quite fine or let me just start by saying that this matar is now in court there was a party that was filed and the judge put an injunction on the government from doing anything on the comps until the case is hard in a month's time so the genesis of this penny as you mentioned is this announcement

by the interior cabinet secretary in march giving the unit c.r. and all to me time to come up with a report and the units you are did come up with a report 1st talking about all the challenges you know repack treating 400 in their teeth 1000 g.'s in these 2 comes to mind the northwest and. the north east so that you want to see our cities it's impossible to do this in the middle of a pandemic and the protection of refugees should be a parity they're also pro ozols in that. report so you knew it c.r. said that the government needs to give it time for when you can tarry repacked to go on for the refugees were supposed to be settled in 3rd countries and also asked the government if it could concede into the community reintegration

particularly of refugees who have been here since the start refugees who were born in this country and who feel that kenya is their home country so they report this proposals have been rejected by the ministry i think i saw some media reports that the units you are was asking for some time i think until the end of 2022 just to put the logistics in place but the government has said no we need a more reasonable acceptable timeframe but then the minister is also turning down on his march you know very combative stance that you know ultimatums and things like that so the minute. this is that this did rule for negotiating so the usa and the ministry of interior negotiate are still talking and i don't think from he stored that there's going to be any drastic action any time soon. what do you think spot face this initial. one comes close now.

well obviously i can't speak for the governor of kenya but i think they have said a couple of times that they have concerns about environmental degradation in places like that dab in the 3 camps that are there they have major concerns about the 79 percent funding gap. from the humanitarian. you know bodies there is concerns and of course we're in the middle of a diplomatic between the somali and kenya government with regards to who owns who who controls parts of the indian ocean so this these are some of the other issues but i think the one that we have heard most consistently is the issue of massive national security and i think this has to be put in context in many in many ways we're not back in 20152016 when we saw attacks in my university as we saw a number of every brazen repeated attacks on kenyan soil this is a particular period which there it seems to be a lull in terms of attacks by al shabaab so it's not really clear at this moment

why this national security imperative is being brought forward and i think we should also mention that the besides the case that catherine spoke about in the high court at the moment in 2017 a high court pronounced a judgment that said you cannot visit an evacuation or a program on 512000 to be correct that figure that was said earlier we have a combined number of 512000 people refugees in kenya. and you cannot become all half a 1000000 of them on the basis of the fact that some of them have been engaged in terrorism even if there are in the camps this would be ludicrous if you tried to attempt this medium sized town senshi to arrest or to to displace a whole town just simply because you want to go after a few violent terrorists i think these are the arguments that we've heard from the

government i said let me bring in who i'm to have went out to see each of comment from prime wangle that dad camp is more of a terrorist splitting camp than the refugee camp pick up that thought. i think you actually government. right now has been national security reasons like my fellow panelists mention environment or funding of that but the main cause which takes about 80 percent of government a reason to want to close these camps is national security and this is also mentioned in now in the in the refugee i mean in the in the geneva convention or refugees a government oil hosting country they call it a common contract and country can actually even interfere with issues when there are issues of national security involved and saw the government of kenya since 2011 when our our forces crossed over into somalia to pursue the terrorists are there

was increased or was attacks on across this country than what you know in universities in shopping malls in charge and these these these attacks culminated into an intelligence report where our government was you know has a responsibility to find out where these problems come from literally in the last year or so or they have been almost countless i.d.'s blood on the roads no progress at bombs killing mainly police and security is not going to have risen and i just had our own guy say that that there haven't been as many attacks recently and you're saying something completely different actually i would actually want to differ with him because there have been increased roadside bombs and now you display on the roadside one as recent that's 2 weeks ago where it in missed the security button that was supposed to block. a civilian past killing you know hard

for people and injuring so many others so there has been an increased the generally no one has the attacks you can trace back to. it's out of the sale i jump into if you're not honest if you debts not relevant is that to me jump in there ever look at what's out there that says it didn't leave it again for i don't think amps out of every religious report they say it they are following sleeper cells in their own camps that are aiding these terrorist attacks. so i was just going to say that you know the argument and i think we have to really be careful about the language i mean the idea that refugees are somehow like mosquitoes that they breed in swamps in camps this is in a far bigger and actually prejudicial against people who have essentially fled out of fear and a lack of security in themselves and that is the reality for many of the people in the camps. yesterday a young 22 year old creighton to wear a n l g b t i q an activist and a refugee died of

a fire bombing that took place in kakuma come about a week ago and a couple of weeks ago and you know we've had other cases where many of the refugees actually rather than perpetuating acts of violence are actually fearful for their own lives and i think this this is the reality for the majority of people in those camps and painting the entire camp as a training camp for al shabaab or any other terrorist group is actually paid from the force and just not borne out by the evidence it is definitely the case that there have been and i don't want to minimize the loss of our security officers or people who have died as a result of the i.d.f. attacks that when they speaking about but i think it's really critical to to make the point or to ask the question is there concrete evidence that these attacks can be traced back to the camp or are these essentially cells that are coming across the border from somalia and for that matter are a danger not just to kenyans but to refugees as well. let me let me go quickly to

dictionary and their politics is to cut to broad but really the government will never reveal what intelligence they got that they'll never make it public that we we spied on someone's hall and we looked at their phone data we followed their conduct and it's called the refugee camps but when the government speaks and when the minister for national security speaks i think we owe him some some sense of duty to actually believe him or respect his opinion and that big government. of clear is sleeper cells into refugee camps i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that i am moving in captain here catherine the new chief of us are talking about this is also an argument thank you for being part of this conversation talking about a maritime dispute with somalia abu car picks up on that dispute however listen to his comment catherine come off the back and put it in the context of the idea of having to close to huge refugee camps is there

a connection. between. the current for a beautiful mother but the truth to cover it's not. the only people who go to britain for the likes of us to. do is look good for the piece of. relationship between somalia and kenya is that be behind the idea of always half a 1000000 people having to find new homes. what he needs to have said these no link between this diplomatic problems that kenya is having with somalia and what the announcement that he's being he's made but then a lot of people last thing that there is a link but because the relationship between somalia and kenya has been forced for quite a while somalia has often for example you know accused kenya of interfering in its

own political affairs this actually in the lead up to the election which had talked about the mari time dispute we were countries including this hour a 100000 square kilometer triangle in the indian ocean that you see to be a breach in gas and oil both countries claimed that they are the rich countries you know exploiting 'd and you know least. some of those blocks are they is a case in quote somalia kenya. international i.c.j. kenya has withdrawn from that case so even if the minister say that you know whatever is happening now is not linked to you know the force to relations a lot of people are saying that this is a way of kenya putting no pressure on somalia to tone down yes let's talk about logistics stand because they're beginning to understand a get a more clearer vision of paps what might be behind kenya's decision to want the camps close finally eventually. but what about the logistics this is devon talking

about the logistics have a listen. if the kenyan government were to close their oath e.g. council to dive into a coma quickly or that proper plans in place that respect international refugee law it would be absolutely devastating for tens of thousands of refugees there are about 430000 refugees from these 15 different countries in the camps most refugees living in the dub are from somalia and many of the refugees in the kumar from south sudan so where they go what would they do somalia certainly isn't safe to return to and many parts of south sudan aren't safe either also many of the refugees are born and raised in the camps all they know is kenya the kenyan government has a responsibility to find some sustainable solutions so many questions devon post right there but the logistics are wrong. and the u.n.h.c.r. have been trying to repatriate people then they ran out of money and kenya seems extremely serious this time around about those camps closing what logistically can

be done. well i think the plan that was put forward by the unit that has been rejected by the government in terms of its timetable raised some of the complexity of this i mean 1st of all not everybody in these camps is going back to somalia you've got people from the d.r. see you know upwards of 5 to 6 different countries that you would have to re repatriate or relocate over this period and i think the 1st thing to say is that you know i think as devon has said is that you know we have had 30 years and one of the reasons that i am proud to be a kenyan is that i come from a country that has provided sanctuary for a refugees for 30 years and the numbers comparative to some of the countries in that are much richer and much more wealthy really you know there's a there's a real fair share of responsibility on this but i think kenya has done this out of an obligation not just in terms of international or in respect to international conventions but also our own kenyan laura that we have

a responsibility to protect but i think the logistics just simply cannot be done in a haphazard way let me just give you some of the complexity the 1st is that you know obvious one we are in a pandemic there has been not planned to vaccinate any of these areas fiji's to make sure that they can be repatriated safely and for many of these countries they're actually have been bans on border transfer. crossing of borders at a point like this the 2nd option would be for them to be relocated to 3rd countries now we've seen with even prior to call it but definitely drink of it that many countries have actually stopped their resettlement plans and therefore countries like norway sweden and canada that have started early being supportive are not doing this anymore and therefore there is no option really to settle them in 3rd countries and the 3rd and most important thing really is that many of the countries as we've heard already by some of the refugee spokespersons is that you know many

of these countries are unstable they are violent and. weak states so we are very much faced with a situation that like in 20152016 we repatriated voluntarily and it has to be voluntarily under international law it is 6000 people but many of them returned because there was simply no schools for their children to go to there were no livelihood for them to pick up and it was nor 3 you know kind of health care available for them and i think the last one perhaps maybe is thinking about this is that you know for many people we tend to forget that many of these people in the comes are you know born in those camps they have got married in those camps they are as kenyan as many of us who live outside of the camps and for that reason this is a delicate process that needs to be managed with care and ensuring that we do not have been haphazard and disastrous humanitarian operation at this point so tough when i

don't know you don't care about you hear you to have a news done stories about the doll camp and cocoon the camp and you spoken to people who've lived to have big chunks of their life if not all of their lives so i know you're not dive right now because of covert but can you explain to me how many of the people that you spoke to they think about the dop and cocoon there and when they are in a position where they may not be that home going forward what do they tell you. let me the 1st very briefly speak about the voluntary repace show that you were talking about into the 16 i extensively covered that repace a sion and i did speak to people who were going back home and i called some of the people in this period who are still in i.d.p. comes in somalia and able to get health care unable to just get the basic needs i in 2017 i went back to dob and i spoke to people who i had interviewed going

to somalia and they had returned to the cons because it was too dangerous in the whole areas where they had where they had gone to so the situation is more or less the same i have spoken to a lot of people in this period and i mean the sentiments i just like it was in pain to 16 there's a lot of fun back into it a lot of a lot of people who were born that i like where are we going to go and you know in couple months for example we have refugees from other countries in the region who still feel that it's very unsafe for them to go back and i spoke to them as well so they're very worried about doc they're aware that you know the court blocked things in 2017 and now there's also a ruling perhaps it's government rhetoric but a lot of people saying that you know this thing keeps repeating itself the reality one time the government makes good its threat where will they go with iraq is

a sentiment a lot of a lot of us i think in those comes i would interesting just conversation the closing moments of our conversation israel he's an international security check i'm going to put his soul to human wind let's have a listen. maybe even the dual tendency in iran and this us to be the solution to this troubling is the us in should look out for each humanistic approach that into groups the use of mortgages going as it is national security issues issues made legs of that but also all the move will affect the human security all the most primary because fission is if you defend you should be limited so what i'm i'm hearing them one day is there's a negotiation that has to happen that is currently happening what do you think is the best case scenario that we could help for. thank you. actually i'm very

delighted that after. the announcement by the minister has been almost you know activities every word that wills are telling you know at the international level or in the local levels in fact that 111 party that is missing in these negotiations are the mother countries of these people have not seen representatives from south sudan or from the government of somalia of. you know or. is it if you just come from come to the table and say we are interested parties into these negotiations but as the government has made this announcement all these players are coming to the table and as my brother. said in that clip that he played over there that the security researcher yes we need to listen to each other this is this is the international system in the international system they are not salutes we listen to each other. present their case. and see our

and human human rights groups are honest international how does the percent 0 percent they are views and people listen to each other if we listen to each other for sure there is going to be an amicable solution and i tell you the ultimate solution that the government of can is looking for in the safety of its people the city of the city of its security agencies that are working in these areas the city of the citizens of this country do not forget that the government prosperous sponsibility is all citizen it needs to secure this country no mother the price of the house to pay for that and just looking her to some of the comments that people are reacting to guesses as you are actually speaking he says the kenya cannot really integrate the number of people in the camps it's important to recognise the challenges kenya faces in relation to the camps being open and growing and science needs collective action this is going to be an instant reaction gas 5 years time what a tab and cooma still exist. well we don't know and i think. the

point about you know dialogue i think is critical and i think it's including always dialogue is good is critical when death. and they still exist in 5 years time no. kathryn and i think without a lot of pressure the government is putting on you and it's you are another part and i was i don't think it will exist in 5 years dying will i be here in 5 years time to do that show who knows thank you very much catherine. a wrong go and you cheat us for your comments and your questions appreciate you asking you next time take everybody. to. the a. it's

the political debate show that's challenging the way you think i want to know where you stand on cancer culture decreasing the range of ideas that can be heard from international politics to the global pandemic and everything in between if tech companies are the ones with all the power what do we do what's the solution get organized what are world leaders or governments missing. up front with me marc lamont hill on al-jazeera. when freedom of the press is under threat demonstrators and journalists are dealing with internet outages police intimidation and charges of said dishes on the state line becomes the defaults in media namely images that he did not attempt to these guys are just creating new sides makes it hard for people to know what's real and what's not step outside the mainstream to shift the focus covering the way the news discovered the listening

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is al jazeera. you're watching the news hour live from the headquarters in doha i'm terry you navigate coming up in the next 60 minutes and now it is time to bring our forces home after 2 decades of war american and nato forces are expected to leave afghanistan together but they won't meet a crucial deadline. india's worst hit state imposes new.