costs in moscow if it interferes further in ukraine other than the kind of targeted sanctions we've seen since 2014 and where those responses discussed this week with nato and other partners thank you. all allies agreed on all our laws agreed actually a statement which we agreed that the minister meeting today where we clearly stated that we now have decided to start to that with the role of all over nato troops from afghanistan starting the 1st of may and the plan is to finalize the drawdown of withdrawal within a few months so this is not something that just discussed this isn't there should be decided on the doctored. joint declaration where we state that clearly and also explain why we made the decision at the same time i think all of us are aware of that this is not isa decision. and this is that this isn't done and face risks.

and also a decision that really requires that we continue to stay focused on afghanistan partly to make sure that the withdrawal takes place in the safe and secure and orderly way not to be sending a pretty clear message through taliban leafed on it that if they start to attack us we will. retaliate on and on so in a very forceful way but also to start to work with the building install to back the secretary general of nato in that press conference of the u.s. secretary of state and didn't blink in the u.s. defense secretary lloyd austin all really showing a united front when it comes to the withdrawal of u.s. troops and nato troops from afghanistan let's get more on this from stephanie becker who is in berlin again really all showing a united front they went into afghanistan together nato countries and the u.s. there in leaving together. very much and very much similar language hearing there from nation sector generally and stoltenberg similar to what

the americans have been saying also that nato troops will start their withdrawal on may 1st just like the americans as you say very much coordinated together they went in together they will leave together of course for nato also this was a historic mission in the sense that was the 1st time they invoked article 5 of the nato charter this was also referred back to by un stoltenberg which is you know attack on one member is attack against old so officially now all foreign troops will be withdrawing from afghanistan by september. this is what we're hearing now they say they remain committed to the country of course it's been 20 years of conflict that they've had soldiers on the ground and now it really is up to diplomacy they say stephanie decker with isis on that stephanie thank you i will of course have more on that story in half an hour or so coming up next on al-jazeera the stream thanks for watching.

i am watching the stream on today's episode how rich is too rich how i look at my laptop this is feld forbes world's. richest people in 2021 in the past year there have been 660 new i want you to look at this fact i'm just going to skip down here a lot of it so you can see. a new billionaire with every 17 hours on average over the past year now because we're in a global pandemic this is spot the whole conversation about wealth taxes should the

super rich be taxed because the super rich i know you have opinions on this if you are jumping to the comment section part of today we start the debate with alex. on the tax justice network we reckon that one nurse is annual salary is lost to tax havens and free single 2nd because of the traction abuse is a multinational companies and wealthy individuals stashing their assets offshore those are the resources that we need. to make sure those public health services for everyone worldwide fractionation as quickly as possible we need to build and make in a way that reduces the inequalities that scar our societies rather than worsening them and that's why we need tax justice measures we need progressive taxation of a radical short to raise the resources we need stand by for some more arguments for

and against wealth taxes how is how alice and welcome to the stream morris introduce yourself to what he who you are what you do. sure i'm morris pearl i live here in new york city i run a group called the patriotic millionaires who just wrote a book about taxing the rich and that's what we need to do all right thank you for having me and you say falcon alison introduce yourself to the st louis yes i have a striker i'm a senior member of the to and i also wrote a book not about practice but about rich us what. nice to have you how i raffia get to have all this conversation about wealth taxes tell everybody who you are i want you to say hello to everybody my name is rough and we go out i'm senior lecturer in economics at the university of cornish and we just published a paper has to meet the revenue potential of west texas in europe yes i want to play this little clip from the forbes chief content officer his name is ron don't

want talking about how people feel rich during the global pandemic k.b.'s last year the world's billionaires were worth 8 trillion dollars on the nose this year 13 point one trillion that's more than 5 trillion dollars of so in terms of this pandemic here that very very good to people very very dull mice i guess shocked you know i've known that all along i'm far wealthier now than i was before that endemic started and i haven't worked for a living in 7 years that's the problem some of us who don't even work are becoming wealthier and wealthier and wealthier because our investments are way up and up and up and we pay far lower tax rates here in the united states because we get investment income that's taxed less than people who have to work for a living pay a tax rate so that's what's causing part of the quality that's destabilizing our

society alison. well no i mean to some degree of course the sump uprising was by design we had a lot of policies that propped up asset markets and you know the stuff of the stock market dropped a lot last march and then it rebounded heavily but that was lustily also by a lot of the support to keep up the suck market and so a lot to a large extent this was by design although sort of were into remember that it's not as rich people who are in the markets about 50 percent of americans at least own stock and a lot of people in the u.k. see their pension accounts so well there is certainly room or they have more assets and more assets in risky portfolios to some degree we did all. right with the problem with rich people getting richer. i mean there is a pattern in the it's received very clearly in the data over the last 40 years that the richest people in society are a growing reaches of this is not a short term trend no because of deep and then we can be. measures from the central

banks but this is a long ongoing process and the degree of inequality of you have reached is. it is unilaterally it was almost i'm 8080 years ago to give you some some numbers now in the u.s. the richest one percent or more than a 3rd of all of wealth in the country the richest one percent of u.s. households in europe it's about $11.00 3rd so these are the qualities the levels of unicorns is we we're seeing and that's not new that's an ongoing long lasting trend since the last 40 years i said when we asked the provocative question i can assure him my laptop how to write this is what wrote in the tasa sent us since when is it a crime to be rich that is what kept a society is predicated what hot and rove war it it alison yes no i

think the imagery showed in the beginning of all those billionaires i think for mark of all that they're all self-made and they all created companies that provided value and i don't question for a while about the show which you know are correct and shows the long running trends but then the question as an economist i have which is did these people get rich and some other people i mean isn't a 0 sum game where some people get super rich they're necessarily making someone else worse off because that they're getting rich and making other people better off if that's necessarily a problem. i don't think it's that simple to say that well some people are rich and it's all good sort of the deficit just a bit more unfortunate i mean one of the reasons why we see. this is that like you know jeff bezos got a lot richer because of amazon this last year but i know amazon saved my life. so

did it him getting rich necessarily making me worse off whereas even maybe make me better off. well i mean it's the diverse because in the amazon warehouse there is work for. a lot of pressure very low wages that are certainly not. doing well because or better because business is doing so well i mean we have the i pads on have i think a very well. let me finish and of course i hear that they'd never get on over the last 40 years or so be have certain industries which minutes now has to extract the reigns from from the rest of the economy to large profits which are way above what a normal kind of company makes and that is at the at the cost and at the detriment of other parts of society yes i do think so so let me just bringing said i am economic numbers disappointing that people who have

a lot of money in this conversation so my scope go out and then i'm going to have to turn in the argument from millionaires and billionaires who want to pay a wealth tax they want to pay money nice to have you know it's not it's not bad that mr pays us if you're rich he did a great job running on a stock i would call him self-made though he started out with hundreds of thousands of dollars from his parents and friends and family which is something slightly most of us can't do and even if half the people in america have own stock in the stock market getting richer i mean half the people don't so it's not a problem that people like mr basis are becoming very very wealthy that's great work catalysed country what is the problem is that a quarter to half of the people in our country are not earning enough to get by and we can't survive this we have like woks of poor people that are starting to march in the streets out there and we have to do something about that that's the inequality that's destroying our country. well i think there is there is something else to death i mean the i would say prison americans it is a bit of

a thorny issue but i would say it's not saw unproblematic that that business is so so rich and the reason is that the a democratic society cannot take. can only take so much inequality i mean if we see the kind of inequality we see today in the u.s. but not only in the us in europe in in china in in russia we're one percent of the population owns a 3rd or 40 percent of the untold wealth that means that this tiny group combines a vast amount of resources. which in a democracy in a healthy democracy or as a means that they have way more ways to to make themselves heard make their cause i think there is there are considerations there which go beyond saying ok good for a rich person to be rich and indeed well there are some more fundamental questions . and certainly there are super rich people who want to contribute more to

society they can take our money and look here on my laptop super rich cool for higher taxes on wealthy to pay for covert 19 recovery millionaires for humanity millionaires want to wealth tax to that same response i had a conversation today and now i want you to meet the founder of 1000000 as for humanity making the point about what can be done if you have huge wealth jonathan of a pandemic have a listen the millions ask our governments to rise texas and people like us we are talking about a permanent work tax of our around one percent of the world's biggest fortunes as we continue to face the impact of the code 19 crisis in leg a fun thing for all this the g's. we mean unity had a critical role to play in healing. specially climate change and extreme

poverty is out of control. we have differences seen the risk of nature and to poor look at the poor with the last see the kates this will make an on say will for future we can nations that's why we do this no media oscar our governments police checks us so i want to be key have out what we're talking about this is not regular tax this is a wealth tax allison define a wealth tax so it's very different from an income tax which is what we have in america right now and only a few european countries even have a well tax right now which is you're actually talking taxing the stock of well rather than the amount of income you get each year it would be a tax on your bank account or your brokerage account and it would so it is that is a very different kind of tax and it is also a much more difficult tax to collect because unlike income taxes we don't actually

have good data what well people have what they owe and especially very rich people who keep a lot of their assets in private companies that are very hard to value are things like are or overseas property so it is fundamentally a very different income taxes are very easy to collect so we've got great data on income you know your employer reports how much they paid you the i.r.s. knows that you know you can tax that but wealth is fundamentally very different as in economics all's well that also sets up very different incentives and creates a very different economic model more cool tax the rich how do you tax the rich what do you propose. we do propose something like a well look at mr davis again for example you might have no income at all he's the richest person in the world. and so income tax yeah a wealth tax is hard to hard to administer sure that's true but we do it here in united states we have a state taxes and that's essentially

a wealth tax that is taxed once per each person we also have more than half of our people in our country are paying a wealth tax because middle class homeowners here in the united states pay real estate taxes and almost all of their wealth is their homes so i think we're asking that we have wealthy people like these billionaires yes some of whose wealth is hard to measure and some of which isn't pay the same kind of tax that most middle class americans been paying for years so much has i mean i so i mean i think it's important and jeff bezos would be paying capital gains taxes that's races always playing that thing. so i think it's important to understand that. that's what we have to be as authentic to finish this year is that someone is a dead heat is lying because he has to think so are we talking noise then i talk about just close closing the loopholes which i don't think is even possible once

one leapai is closed i never want 7 openness. it's not a loophole people like it because investors like me or like just based on sort of national extent i mean i have i don't know $1000000.00 worth of stock in amazon that's great but we pay taxes at tax brackets of 0 percent 50 percent and 20 percent that's far less than even you pay as a working journalist when you need to state morris about this. will take a lot of loopholes i'm not too worried about about them i mean this is right that the income tax works well because the i.r.s. gets the information on on your earnings we can do something very similar disrespect to well. recorded i mean financial institutions have ever thought of of these records not everything but a financial wealth we have they don't tell you of real estate them and they are large real estate markets in the in the u.k. the u.s. we do have a lot of that information or could make it available relatively easy the tax haven

issue which rich we started out and heard about from from tax justice u.k. there are estimates that in the u.s. about 10 percent of the super very very rich keep keep their essence a broad site there is a problem but enforcement can be done i mean money can be traced. to some responses i think you're minimizing the extent of how difficult this is it's true that we do estate taxes but this is a one time thing we do one thing it takes a lot of resources there's a lot of leakage it's very very small out. of the population has. cut ups are so high but also i mean we also understand that i mean when the what if that's the case from animals that it takes so we have really a question to have lots of questions or thoughts for you and i'm just going to interrupt because that conversation and asking could go on for a very long time out it would love to get in as well this is faked are they to

suggesting more as tax anything over a bill. and you'll thoughts quickly that's we're talking we're talking here in new york in the united states about a wealth tax with a tiny fraction of our people new york state where i live is considering a wealth tax that would affect a few 100 people and yes it would be hard to administer i don't think the problem is so much cheating and stealing most people are basically honest i think the problem is we don't even attempt to tax the rich people because we don't tax the wealthiest people except on their income and yeah you can look at a paycheck of somebody like jeff bezos and he makes less money than you do on an actual paycheck because he has huge amount of stock in amazon that he owns and he does it meet on a page so i'm going to comment to you as if i my cousins i want to interact with you as well if that's ok his leaving panda there comes a point where the which no longer make money but take money alison thoughts i don't think that's true i don't think we've proven that the economy is there are some

even we're talking about a large rent that these companies are extracting we're talking often about tech companies that provide services for free so and as i said i don't think we should really give up on that sort of we kept acknowledge the fact that it's really hard to value privately held companies like it or not trade on the stock market getting a value that is very typical we are already see a big trend towards companies stay private investors that are high end investors certainly wanting to invest in private equity assets that cannot be valued and if we had a wealth tax we would just increase that uncensored even more to some degree it sort of like break the thermometer you don't have a fever if we had a wealth tax people would find all sorts of ways of making their wealth look a lot smaller so i guess that would help wealth inequality but at the same time we wouldn't really know the extent of it nearly as much as we do now let me pointing at the head of the i am after who is making a case for what could happen during a global pandemic if the wealthy yeah well that if it will join us with that wealth having the same. this year next vaccine policy is economic

policy fast the progress in ending the health crisis could at almost 9 trillion dollars to global g.d.p. by 2025 basis for public money in our times but this window of opportunities closing fast but this create crisis has shown just how and this capable our shared destiny is now we must build on this broader says of common responsibility to foster a fairy coverage in the resilient past pandemic world marrs i am wondering if this pandemic has made us think differently about wealth and taxing and what is possible with a lot of money particularly when we're seeing movement of mass than we've ever

happened for i think it certainly made us think differently we have you know something close to a quarter of our people have become unemployed at least part of the time because of the coca virus crisis yet the richest among us become richer and richer and richer and that's when i think they're bad people when i think amazon is a bad company we're not saying anybody's evil you know they're good people doing good things writing a valuable service that alison and i both love to shop at amazon but we're just saying these people who are making humongous amounts of money and paying less taxes than regular people are in their paychecks at a lower tax rate they need to pay more taxes to reduce inequality somewhat. this is an interesting point from some place. but this one. you can pick up on the point you were going to make as well this says on you change the role of the government is to ensure the worse off in society has access to opportunities to succeed and

improve their lives tax a simpler it is not the solution stronger institutions are the l. . but i would say it's not an either or and. it's not that one of tax is is it is the government from from providing good education it's the other way around i would say for example and talk about education it's that a bit of tax would allow the government to fund these endeavors more easily but i think i'm not kind of the bigger picture point to our discussion so far are we not touching upon the vaccine than people and they make i think when we talk about the stakes we can distinguish between 2 purposes we want the effects because we want to fund these things like they make recovery or we want to have we want to fund climate change policies or do you really want to have tax because we want to do something about inequality and the kind of well it takes is you need for these 2

different approaches are very different if you like the one more isn't proposed one percent that won't do much for really bringing wealth inequality down it would be. sure to raise revenues but we won't really be able to reduce wealth inequality in accordance meaningfully for that we need a progressive wealth tax which is able to reduce the share of t.v. very richest 1st discovery when you understand a $1000000000.00 i mean you're only fact you have a lot of money. no if everybody pays one percent on whatever and i think it's a matter what has really dollars i would have. yeah but it's a flat tax and is the definition of that thinks is that the tax rate doesn't change that and it's the expats well they look at the track record so you know that the. 2 brackets are somewhat progressions that were i think were actually proposing 3

brackets in the united states but yeah but this is not how we understand the meaning of the one percent might sound low but it is a lot bigger than it sounds like if the risk free rate is less than one percent which means that you're not investing in risky assets you're paying more in taxes each year than your wealth is bringing in syria well what actually does a 1000000000 you know we should be you know makes one percent on their on their billions and you know we know from from from today today yes but it rates are headed there and i thought that you know i think they are they are paid enough to distribute it out why is that much i'm just wondering why is there such a fast debate about this 1000000 as themselves and saying yes we got the money we want to help why is there why should people who don't have the money argue about it . here in the united states they people have been told from 40 years ago that old government is evil taxes are evil we must each be independent and do our own thing and not help each other and we simply have to change that philosophy we

have to have the philosophy you know as your previous speaker said that we're kind of all in this together and we're all going to succeed or fail and we can't have a society where there's a few stream lee works people and lots and lots of poor people you know they tried that in south africa in the 1980 s. that did not end well for the rich people i think we have to have a change and we need some kind of more progressive tax system and the even the wealth tax you proposed as austan said are somewhat progressive and that would be a good thing. alison do you feel that you're on the losing end of this argument all the way down to the saga meant that when it. we actually mostly agree yeah i think so i mean i definitely also feel strongly we need to find a way to raise more revenue and particularly i think the way we do it should be progressive i just don't think the wealth act is the most efficient or best way to do it but i think we do largely agree we need to raise more revenue and that should

be progress. i would add that if we really want to do something about the wealth inequality of wealth tax is a very important measure in the short term and what i mean by a progressive one effect would be one word the rate goes up so we're person ritual is $3000000.00 base one percent and a 1000000000 there pays a much higher rate this is a program that would be progressive tax relief you have to reduce inequality then you would have well practice on even sort of rich people. no that's a different question it depends on. where is the threshold where do you start to tax me if you say. 2 or $3000000.00 is not rich that's a different debate but if you know that one percent start the right to get this not rich person has to wrap up the show thank you so much i'm just going to show you where you can find or divide guest so that you can follow them. is that the patches

take 1000000 as you can follow him and look tax the rich he may well get some clues as to how to do that or how to be rich alysha is right here on twitter and also raphe mail you can follow on twitter as well thank you love your conversation next time take care. frank assessments. that you have. taking what a situation might not be you could ever get informed opinions is the u.s. with thinking military positioning in the middle east or is it just a simple act of reorganizing ministry us and this is a message to the region the united states here's a rethink you're its military in-depth analysis of the day's global headlines

inside story. most people will never know what's beyond this storm. deafening silence 100 pounds informs how it feels to touch danger british. people will never know what it's like to work with every breath description. with. the tsunami. but we're not to speak to. busy lights made you look like a city from the sky but they're fishing vessels just outside of argentina's exclusive economic zone the united states launched operation southern cross to combat illegal and regulated fishing in the southern atlantic argentina's coast guard say their main task is to control their movements so they do not cross into

arjan time territory from this growing margin tine of forty's can money for what's happening in its economic exclusive zones but what authorities here are saying is that what's important is talk regulate what's happening in international waters. arrow or the world. hello i'm barbara starr in london these are the top stories on al-jazeera u.s. president joe biden says the american withdrawal from afghanistan will be complete ahead of the 20th anniversary of the september 11th attacks and a speech at the white house he announced that all 3500 u.s. soldiers in the country will begin to leave next the months the conflict has cost the lives of 2400 u.s. service members and they'd also cost an estimated $2.00 trillion dollar.