it's like a mini if you can see here it's very very small houses where sometimes you have 8 to 10 people leaving. a few kilometers down the road there is another even bigger camp this one will sit up only a few months ago the last census carried out by the government in december last year counted nearly 50000 people living in this camp since then attacks in towns and villages have grown in size and frequency humanitarian workers say many more people are now living here as well as an other camp in the problem was. the most recent attack was in parma in march weeks later families are still arriving at reception centers desperately looking for food and shelter some of them could end up joining thousands of others already living in camps not sure if it will ever be safe enough for them to go back home. province mozambique.

this is out as there are these are your top stories russia's foreign minister sergei lavrov says he'll asked 10 u.s. diplomats to leave the country after washington made a similar move the u.s. also announced an array of new sanctions against the kremlin lavrov says russia's looking at imposing painful measures on u.s. businesses from moscow his bennett's met 10 u.s. diplomats in russia will have to leave russia or is also sanctioning 8 washington administration officials this is because last month the u.s. sanctioned 8 russians it's going to stop the u.s. embassies and missions who are hiring russians of a 3rd country nationals to work in their missions this can affect everything from drivers and cooks to analysis stuff. and also it's been suggested by the russian foreign ministry that the u.s.

ambassador here goes back to washington for consultations because russia's ambassador is in moscow for consultations police in the u.s. city of indianapolis say it's still too early to know the motive behind says day's mass shooting a gunman killed 8 people and injured several others at a fed ex facility yet entity of the attacker who killed himself hasn't been released members of me at malls alstad political parties ethnic leaders an anti the protesters have formed a national unity government they say it's aimed at restoring democracy after the marriage she killed in february. 9 per a democracy activists in hong kong have been sentenced for taking part in anti-government protests in 2019 among them is veteran campaign a martin lee and media tycoon jimmy nye they say your headlines inside story coming up next.

the u.s. slapped sanctions on moscow is the biden administration taking relations with russia in a different direction after the trump era and how will it impact the front lines around the globe this is inside story. hello and welcome to the show i'm sam he's a them relations between the u.s. and russia have dipped to a new low president joe biden signed off on

a raft of new sanctions against moscow the white house says it's retaliation for russian hiking of federal agencies election interference and other hostile acts biden insists the u.s. is not looking to kick off a cycle of conflict with russia but wants a stable and predictable relationship but the kremlin is already threatening to respond in kind with its foreign intelligence service accusing washington of eroding international stability we'll bring in our panel shortly but 1st this report from our white house correspondent kimberly how cute. they are some of the most punitive u.s. measures taken against russia in years today you know i've been through several steps including expulsion several russian officials just days after a phone call between u.s. president joe biden and russian president vladimir putin to secure a u.s. desire for a predictable relation. ship the united states announced surprise russia sanctions

we cannot allow a foreign power to interfere in our direct democratic process with impunity more than 30 russian entities are being targeted at least 10 russian diplomats will be expelled from the united states and some tech firms are being punished for allegedly providing support to russian intelligence the sanctions also put in place rules banning some financial dealings involving russia's sovereign debt to choke off lending and inflict economic harm we want a stable predictable relationship and russia continues interfere with our democracy i'm prepared to take further actions to respond. the white house says the sanctions are retaliation for russia's alleged aggressive actions including the occupation of crimea interference in u.s. presidential elections and last year solar winds hack that infiltrated the computers of thousands of u.s. businesses and government agencies. the sanctions also respond to unconfirmed

intelligence alleging russia offered bounties as high as $100000.00 for killing u.s. soldiers in afghanistan intelligence officials haven't confirmed the russia bounty program still the white house says we of course will not stand by and accept the targeting of our personnel by any elements including a foreign state actor this information really puts the burden on russia and the russian government to explain their engagement here the sanctions come just days after u.s. intelligence identified russia as one of the most serious threats to the united states and officials warn that sanctions may not be the only retaliation suggesting clint destine actions may still be yet to come can really help at al-jazeera the white house. well for more on this now i'm joined by i guess in this show. in boston massachusetts glenn kahl columnist for newsweek and former death to national intelligence officer for the cia in london

klinsmann moratti a geopolitical advisor and c.e.o. of the consultancy pangea why a group and in moscow dimitri babich political analyst for so bosnia a news agency in russia a warm welcome to all if i could start with glenn in boston so what do you think glenn do these sanctions indicate that the by the administration is going to take a very different approach to russia than we saw under the donald trump administration oh absolutely that is the case it's a return to a more traditional kind of relationship for tat and carrot and stick early ship between rivals which is how international relations function until biden took office we had for 4 years someone who was very least compromised by russian intelligence and pretty clearly involved with it very how do we know that

glenn just like just to get factual on you about how do we know he was compromised i know the allegations about golden showers and all but how do we know for sure. well by observing every statement and every policies action that he took her horror here is a crisis you don't have to go behind curtains to see that when the all 17 agencies of the united states intelligence community reach a conclusion and provide evidence to support and then the presidents of course the the protestation. it's pretty clear and there are hundreds literally hundreds of examples of that plus hundreds of examples of contacts of course an intelligence officials with members of cross entourage so there's really no allegation it's a. give me a flag in this return and i don't want to get caught of the detail but do we have i mean you're a former cia officer did you see are you saying you saw evidence of the of don't

trump actually being compromised i mean we i mean i understand what you're saying about deducing from how he would approach he's only. but now i'm asking you know the statement you made about he's actually compromised if if we say we need a photograph of him doing something accepting an envelope of money you know in the classic example that we do not have we do have however overwhelming numbers of. evidence substantiating dramatic financial interest we don't buy all of our and other figures and russian intelligence officers with members of the crime family not around for decades so it's a yes ok well that constitutes cop all right let's bring in dimitri the mitri how do you think moscow is reading the new biden administration does it see a tougher u.s. approach to russia under the biden. well. basically of

course roger was unpleasantly surprised when trump used that was mildly undy polemic language about our president when biden basically forced him to kill her and then in 2 weeks biden fast i call that personal on those personal relations are very important you know between him and president. we are used to this the united states is no longer a democratic country it divides the walton to democracy to not democracy so basically where the united states sometimes behaves in a very personally tarion manner which we are very familiar with you know it's like stalin and hitler in the end of the one can still get to date where i cannot to morrow we have a lot to prevent go back the same story with biden yesterday when was the cuba today by going to have a summit meeting somewhere in europe and personal relations very important and of

course the narrative about trump being the russian agent and townhouse open russia is completely false you know you just have to look at the facts you have to look at the western brass strong expel more russian diplomats than 80 u.s. president in history he believes beri beri. wrote a story about the poison in order to scream paul in the u.k. no one to him is the screen fall after he was poisoned he didn't even need to be honest it was not shown to the dawn of that we all have to believe the british intelligence the same story with what blair has been better not about a transcript luzhin with russia 1st a commission of robert mubarak came to the conclusion that there was no collusion between france campaign and russia and that conclusion or rather close reports in april ok now i'm intrigued enough for you. me i'm going to jump in now while your

talking as well let me just pick up on one point you mentions we don't get bogged down too much of the history of donald trump but when he is is your point you mentioned there that the u.s. is no longer a democratic country think most of you is do you mean to tell viewers that the u.s. is less democratic than russia right now does that justify perhaps the russian approach or does it disqualify the allegations of russian interference in american . elections and their federal agencies well i k 2 compare count us which county is better which is not this is against international law every county or store in every country found its way to freedom in its way to openness but just listen to what glenn has told us the u.s. has 17 secret agents has. the same number i think all enough to germany for that

you know there were a lot of secret agent democracies do not need so many secret agents in the united states if we all are all front you know was in office for saying something not politically correct you can read it in there was to go on oh you can see what happened during the last year. and basically there are lots of examples when the united states behaved do what it's told you sent us so i just believe it will not tolerate sanction behavior in another country you know it doesn't justify what does that justify allegations of russian hacking. of the u.s. or no host is would say is is is a better example of democracy than than what what is currently prevailing in russia right no i told you i don't want to compare because i don't want to raise my own country i can only tell you that i'm not talking to you and i'm not afraid or

in correspondence i have been talking to or in correspondence for 30 years and since gorbachev stands we have complete freedom we expression know what is going to tell me what i should tell you what i shall tell you and i'm going to pledge very was that about the 2nd let me just add that there is no absolutely 0 evidence on russian taking what we have now as these were only wars from mr baez and his officials they never presented any group any recordings that he's taken was done by russia and ok 2nd place all right let me jump in there i'm sure van is going to want to come back in on some of that stuff or before we do that if we can stay a little bit focused about these latest sanctions and what they mean for russia or indeed the world can bring in klinsmann and ask the question do you think to one extent will these sanctions actually complicate russia's ability to raise money and international money markets. that's

a good question and before i get to that some yeah i think the conversation between glenn and dimitri right now i think shows the vitriol between both the u.s. and russia when it comes down to high level politics and if it and it can on the affairs you must realize that the relation between russia and the us goes back to not way and that both been and their time to superpowers during the cold war and russia some visions i don't think haven't haven't died as their as their political system is changed they have a lot of experience in international affairs to have their agendas met and the u.s. knows that more than anyone else but when it comes time to the disorder and that sanctions that have been put on by by then i don't think this is going to do a lot because you have to realize that these sanctions have been put on the primary markets which means effectively u.s. asset managers cannot buy them directly but can buy them in the secondary market so this really won't do much i don't think to impact the economy how russia and in

fact this somehow got out of a post of effect on on russia as well because you have to remember that if currency is the price you rush or the ruble goes down after this measure this makes exports a lot cheaper which means you know china's i mean russia's biggest trading partner is china so it will see this and it unintended consequences actually impact china by making imports of oil into china cheaper so this may have an unintended consequence moving forward is why i think they're moving on the on the economic sanctions much more slowly to find out with the bilby any unintended consequences to these actions because the more political side of sanctions explain that matz. and then again shaming you know actors i think is a trying and tested method which which really. is no more expensive be hacked but go back to what so many said this carrot and stick situation now that bites and others will see this more i read or think the us really has really

a carrot left in any spot of tricks really to to bring any nation into compliance with international law because they're they're exhausted everything they can as actors tend to be the 1st place they go to but they don't really move on to anything else ok that's interesting i want to pick up on one point that you mentioned there which i think is really important and glenn did the biden administration deliberately perhaps engineer these sanctions in a way not to impact the russian economy so severely by not going after as clinton was pointing out into media trees in the secondary bond market. well i think that's a very good point and sanctions are a very crude tool always but it's also true that the united states and every other country i think tries to calibrate sanctions to send a message as. clearly defined as as it can so i don't know

but i think you're surmising about the sanctions being. done in the matter to send a message and yet to leave it clear to the russians that there is a way forward is probably what divided ministration to do that is that a standard the point is for the divide in this region as it is for any country to. make clear that there will be some costs yes actions are taken against united states that are considered by the united states hostile not simply to cause pain which is why biden said the statement that it doesn't plan what will little color to be gathered what will the conspiracy if russia can simply get around the. well that's a good quite often they don't work you send a message and you can try to use act some pains of the calculation for in this instance the russians is a bit more complicated but it's not guaranteed to work at all and i can tell you

that no sanctions have ever start a foreign power from seeking to pursue its interests as it defines them so the russians have never stopped and will continue to conduct intelligence operations sure i'm sure there are plenty of others who would say the u.s. engages in intelligence operations against the interests of other countries as well dimitri how concerned is moscow about the impact of these sanctions then on the economy listening to what glenn includes in a saying would we be right in assuming that moscow probably isn't too worried about any negative impact on its economy. well most lawyers wanted the language or the sanctions i mean mr biden if you read his executive order imposing sanctions on russia he basically assessed that i declare a national emergency in the united states so russia is so dangerous

that biden think you know you need a national emergency when you impose sanctions on russia that's a very very i would say destructive language because it's a hostile language and the fact that i have his executive order before me the fact that anyone who walked in any sector of russian economy can be a target of sanctions not only people who cooperated with our defense sector this is also something new so basically any businessman not only from the united states but of business from other countries who cooperated with a country that the united states doesn't like for some reason is now under threat that is against western values just like the so-called magness is against western values because people can be you know their property can be taken away from them their right to travel can be limited based on decisions not taken by the court but

by decisions taken by bureaucrats you know by bureaucracy beijing is decisions or newspaper reports that's very concerning asked for they want to me a russian economy is remarkably stable we survived coronavirus pandemic much better than doing that they despite some very bad predictions from there that they i don't like shoving throwing there but when i heard american predictions for example about iran losing millions of people and us american staying away from it i heard that in the early it went early 2000. when i thought that this wasn't just you know laurel and here we have. vanished and then at the house we should get back on topic although well dimitri the whole coronavirus handling of course is a very big issue let me bring in klinsmann and asked this question klinsmann are we necessarily heading towards a deterioration between the u.s.

and russia and their relations i mean after all you could look back to like the eighty's era and see the sort of starts that ronald reagan took towards the end soviet union would have been described by many years as very tough stance but it ultimately culminated in warming relations with gorbachev at the time didn't it. this is how i see the world working right now we can't put what biden does specifically as it is the very beginning of his presidency on any kind of pedestal to show that he is very different anyone else and is going to mark a different attitude towards us foreign policy because he said he hasn't had enough time to enact anything serious when you 1st came to power he did all the easy things really he signed back up to it but if you're the same attitude party candidate who are and he also stated that he wants to get you on your back on track these are really easy things to do but when it comes down to more difficult issues like what to do with the with the real issue with russia and this higher every

nation nature of warfare that we see happening these days his response needs to be a lot more multifaceted but the way the world works now is that sunny is that no longer are there 2 superpowers in the whole as there was during the cold war china is a rising power and china who have other powers coming up and are taking a bigger hole of america's attention in its national affairs and u.s. really has a lot on its hands to really deal with such a such complex relationships that i think it's very early in biden's presence the release date anything concrete as to what you'll do or what is mark on your side to be or i will this segues nicely into a single point we have to raise and that is whether we're going to see glenn do you think we're going to see tensions now increase on a number of issues in a number of flashpoints around the world that involve the u.s. and russia whether we're talking about ukraine to syria or i don't know importing

gas into europe and arctic shipping. well i think the simple answer to that is yes russia has sought for years since this years of including its. international system where what allow me to draw the line but hasn't the us all the same i'm sure dimitri would could easily point out the same of us and many countries right now i guess i would say yes no i'm not claiming that nice this is an innocent choir but the us 'd has on the whole sought a normative system international system of who was now that does benefit the united states as the strongest power and want to say that it is self-interest that is also true but russia as the relatively weaker power of a great power seeks to reassert in sent in europe. its influence that it has lost to the hall of the berlin wall so we can we should expect to see

increasing tensions over ukraine specifically in probably the baltics unfortunately but i think that is true similarly in the middle east where russia has been quite successful and aggressive in becoming more influential there specifically were in syria and the us is probably going to contest that even though in the larger sense the us is slowly. considering the middle east less strategically critical and it has for the last 75 years so in a number of areas yes the tensions are life with you get worse. dimitri russia has already warning about this move the sanctions move eroding international stability do you think in your understanding moscow is looking at perhaps other global issues other global flashpoints where it may for want of a better word try and play its constant get back at the u.s. over the sanctions move. well i mean we're paid to play this year also.

we want to leave the story it as it is for nation and of course it's a travesty to use rush or graft in europe just look at the map or $991.00 and look at the map now where did the waters war where was nato in 1991 and we're at where is that now where was the soviet union you know a connection to long and where into russia now and it was all done without a single shot russia wanted to be friends with the west at that time unfortunately we were he usually deceived by the west and leadership primarily of the by the united states but also by the european union but of course it doesn't mean that we want to restart the cold war to what is war and all around fortunately right now is that the united states and europe are joining the ukraine into a new africa you know like africa and latin america where there are areas where the soviet union and the united states led their proxy wars in the 1980 s.

where a destructive logic proxy wars well unfortunately ukraine is in the same situation we want to avoid that but that's the tragedy unfolding before our eyes or i'm afraid that we are. all over czechoslovakia in the hands of the crazy we are at some we're going to have to end it there would like to thank our guests for has been a very good discussion i think in sharing different viewpoints around this issue so that frank indeed glenn called this minority and dmitri babich and thank you too for watching you can see the show again any time by visiting our web site al-jazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a day inside story can also join the conversation on twitter handle various at a.j. inside story from me sam is a van and the whole team here for now thanks for joining us.

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